Amount of ram =|= speed of the OS. You can create fast and very useful OS even if you have very little ram, and you can do it even if the ram is slow.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6297/membandwidth_575px.png
[Just dont ask Ninendo to create it
]
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[PS4Daily RUMOR] ps4 developers will have access to 7GB of GDDR5 heaven
- Thread starter dEvAnGeL
- Start date
Amount of ram =|= speed of the OS. You can create fast and very useful OS even if you have very little ram, and you can do it even if the ram is slow.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6297/membandwidth_575px.png
[Just dont ask Ninendo to create it
]
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Amount of ram =|= speed of the OS. You can create fast and very useful OS even if you have very little ram, and you can do it even if the ram is slow.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6297/membandwidth_575px.png
[Just dont ask Ninendo to create it
He's just throwing a number out there so don't worry.
Standby ARM CPU does not need access to large memory pool, it can work just fine with small integrated amount of SRAM. If its a AMD ARM TrustZone, then it CANT access anything but SRAM and flash.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1723740&postcount=1163
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1723971&postcount=1175
Who knows what will they use...
Practically? Yes. The pipeline from xdr to the RSX is dreadfully slow.
Metalmurphy
Member
Other way around.
I should inform you that I did not mean any offence. It's rather an incredulous task to ask someone to believe that potentially 2GB overhead does not produce any significant advantage rendering it cost-ineffective.
Now, given that you've provided that link, I shall peruse those long posts to augment my existing understanding. Thank you.
blitzcloud
Banned
Amount of ram =|= speed of the OS. You can create fast and very useful OS even if you have very little ram, and you can do it even if the ram is slow.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6297/membandwidth_575px.png
[Just dont ask Ninendo to create it
in ps3 it seems to be a problem. XMB can work ingame, but needs more time as it probably tries to reallocate whatever remains free.
Also, does this 1gb include the screengrabbing?
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
You really think that, having less than 160MB of free usable main memory, it would be a good idea to steal more main memory for other purposes?
You really think it's a good idea to page to system memory instead of local memory for a GPU performance wise? Especially in PS3, where that tiny BUS is a huge bottleneck.
Arredondo at the start. But PCs will already be more powerful and if PS4 gets any kind of decent lead in market share, there could be a move towards leading on PC/PS4 and letting the Durango version struggle with framerate etc
i dont see that happening considering western developers are pretty much whats moving the industry at the moment, they will support microfost regardless of the console specs
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
Good, now it won't lag the game up when I load trophies and we will probably get cross game chat!
And probably universal in-game custom soundtrack option.
Amount of ram =|= speed of the OS. You can create fast and very useful OS even if you have very little ram, and you can do it even if the ram is slow.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6297/membandwidth_575px.png
[Just dont ask Ninendo to create it
Agreed. Windows XP on my 10-year-old PC with 512mb of RAM was painfully slow. Linux Mint, on the other hand, was so fast I coudn't believe it. :lol
Well maybe they can store it directly on the HDD.
They have a dedicated chip for encoding, right? So filesize shouldn't be a problem.
Pristine_Condition
Member
This question was discussed already in pretty good depth already in this thread, two pages back.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=53568273
When in doubt, try reading the thread.
The only addition to this I'd make is to keep own the possibility another poster suggested that the "dedicated hardware" Cerny talked about could be a transistor group on the low-power "secondary chip" (which in the PS4 also acts as the Southbridge) itself rather than a separate chip. We don't know that for sure, but I don't want to dismiss it.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
My HD DVR has only 128MB RAM and stores the last 2 hours of Live TV in Full HD without problem, even if it's recording another channel via it's Dual Tuner, I doubt 15 mins on the PS4 will use even that much so probably not much of a factor at all.
But... If this is the case, why won't they let me record like a full 2 hours session?
Maybe they'll raise the limit someday.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Probably because they don't want hundreds of thousands of boring ass, way too long videos clogging their hosting partner's servers.
You can live stream as long as you want.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
If it's encoded at full HD resolution then the amount of disk space it will use won't be as trivial as the amount of memory used during the encode. I'd guess they wouldn't really want to use up too much local storage on this feature.
15 minutes of 1080p @ 30fps = 10.85GB vs 2 hours = 86.8 GB
Even at 720p it would take up a fair amount of disk space:
15 minutes of 720p @ 30fps = 6.49GB vs 2 hours = 51.95GB
(Assuming they use H.264 for encoding)
That's not how much space h264 takes you're off by a factor of 10.
Gemüsepizza
Member
The size depends on the settings you use with your h.264 encoder. You can have settings which give you big files and very high quality and settings which give you smaller files with ok or bad quality. All at the same resolution. Youtube videos for example are mostly encoded with low settings and therefore only a few MB big, even at 1080p.
Call Me Maybe
Banned
This is going to be such a beast of a system xD
^those sizes looks like some raw video files.
11gigs for 15 minutes? Thats ~100 mbits, 3 times larger than bluray movie bitrates. 15 minutes x 8mbits [1MB/sec] = 900MB [and good 8mbit encode can give great image]. Lets say keep 1-2 minute in ram just to be quickly accessible if you want to eddit something recently played, rest offload to HDD.
I really doubt they will go above that. Maybe up to 12mbits. Uploading live gameplay to friends will most probably be waaaay below that [2-4mbits, vast majority of the world has crappy upload speeds], and Vita streaming will most probably be 720p with 4-6mbits.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
^those sizes looks like some raw video files.
15 minutes x 8mbits [1MB/sec] = 900MB [and good 8mbit encode can give great image]. Lets say keep 1-2 minute in ram just to be quickly accessible if you want to eddit something recently played, rest offload to HDD.
I really doubt they will go above that. Maybe up to 12mbits. Uploading live gameplay to friends will most probably be waaaay below that [2-4mbits, vast majority of the world has crappy upload speeds], and Vita streaming will most probably be 720p with 4-6mbits.
Oops, you're right, I had my calc app set to Raw mode, well spotted
(Hey, it's late here, my bad!
)I don't know how you did your calculations, but I'll just point out the size of a 1080p full length movie is around 15GB or so (depending on length). Avatar is the biggest movie size I've seen and it is 18GB. Some I found are 12GB. I don't know if that will directly translate to PS4 recording, but I don't see them going over the size of HD movies.
Huh? I've ripped them straight to my hdd and some movies are definitely larger than that.
When all bonuses and non-english languages are stripped, Avatar [extended edition] is 35GB on bluray - 24mbits only for video, another ~4 for audio. That's only video stream and one audio stream [english 7.1].
This is what can be done with ~6.5mbits [select 1080p]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh29_SERH0Y
I'm just counting the movie itself and not the the extra and repeated content that is a full DVD rip. Also, it is obvious that a game session recording will be less than that of a movie's (audio won't take up that much, for one). In any case, even by your standards, the required space is still less than half of 86GB three posts up- which is the point.
I don't think they've given a limit for recording. What they have said is at any point in time you can press the Share button to bring up a menu that will show you the last 15 minutes. There's no reason they can't also have a record now button appear in the share menu that begins a recording session that can go longer than the 15 minute buffer.
Think of it like a DVR. You can rewind live TV, but there's a limit to the buffer and eventually you'll hit it. If you hit record on the other hand you're not limited by the live TV buffer and can rewind past it if you're recording a long show.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
YES. Almost forgot about that. The repetitive music in naruto storm 2 exploration was killing me.
There is no extras in this Avatar footage, and no "repeated content". That's one 35.2GB MKV file with one video stream, one audio stream and dozen of subtitle files. Straight remux directly from the bluray.
iceatcs
Junior Member
I think he talking about pirate file, assume Avatar is the biggest pirate file.
Yup, 6.5 Mbits is enough as long as you're not moving the camera too fast.
The point was (regardless of the size discussion), that DVRs manage recording and playback of multiple HD streams with low power CPU and limited memory, because it simply isn't a CPU/memory intensive exercise, its just a file IO one.
So being able to record the last 15 minutes doesn't need tons of memory. The actual amount chosen (15 mins) is probably
because its designed to capture reactions and spur of the moment things that just happened.
So being able to record the last 15 minutes doesn't need tons of memory. The actual amount chosen (15 mins) is probably
because its designed to capture reactions and spur of the moment things that just happened.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Add Skype, RVU/DLNA and more.
Lots of BY3D posts are blowing smoke. For instance:
According to H. Goto the HDMI port is in the second custom chip. This makes sense as the Second custom chip as Southbridge is always on and HDMI CEC functionality (expanded in next generation) is one of the things that has to be on all the time.Exophase said:
Also the second quote from Patsu is misleading. The ARM trustzone CPU boots from Flash and uses SRAM but it sets up secure regions in DDR memory that it manages and the trustzone processor can run code in the secure memory or open world memory. It also manages IO and there are several schemes for implementing DRM via all ARM code in ARM IP to using ARM trustzone to set up root of trust X86 virtual DRM that uses ARM DRM tools but lives in main RAM managed (to make sure the memory image is what is expected) by the ARM processor.
I thought the 1 GB+ OS memory and 16 Gb Flash are in the Second Custom chip and totally separate from the 8 GB GDDR5 memory used for games.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Going after that Grandma demographic.
Cerny confirmed in the interview with Gamasutra that background chip will have the access to GDDR5 and that they will not totally shut down that ram. Dream of totally separate OS memory pool is now dead.
No, all that problems were because of the software. Bethesda said that they approached PS3 hardware in wrong way, and Cross Game Chat was an OS feature that was never implemented because... of reasons unknown. Sony OS devs did not implement it.
No, all that problems were because of the software. Bethesda said that they approached PS3 hardware in wrong way, and Cross Game Chat was an OS feature that was never implemented because... of reasons unknown. Sony OS devs did not implement it.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I think you are misunderstanding what he means. Standby can not use GDDR5 memory. OS mode or what is called XMB mode in the PS3 has the GDDR5 memory in self refresh and GPU off. At 1 hour APD the GDDR5 memory and GPU/CPU registers are snapshot saved to either Flash or Hard Disk. In standby the HDMI port in the second chip needs the CEC line serviced, WiFi, Lan, AUX port the same and background download of Firmware needs Zlib accelerator and Trustzone for DRM; all with GDDR5 and APU off. This is what Cerny said in his first interview. Energy Star Auto Power Down requires the Games be run from the hard disk, this is why Durango Leaks have this, same is true for the PS4.
In standby mode the APU is totally off and the ARM SoC is in control. When you press the power button (PS button) the ARM Trustzone CPU manages/performs a root of trust boot of a X86 kernel in GDDR5 memory or (depending on last state) snapshot moves saved state info to X86 registers and GDDR 5 memory and passes control to a Jaguar CPU. From that point you can run ARM OS routines or toggle to game mode which uses the AMD GPU and GDDR5 memory with OS overlays.
Standby is so power limited (500mw) that likely LPDDR3 memory in the SoC is in self refresh and a small SRAM memory pool is used. Background download would start the LPDDR3 memory and the CPU would go into a higher power state to perform the download < 1-2 watts.
Cerny second interview:
Those two statements can be confused, they are separate thoughts on separate features. Think about what combining them means; everything is turned off even the Second chip and only the RAM is powered? Bold text inside [] is my addition.
Edit: Power for self refresh of GDDR5 memory which is built using DDR3 should be similar to DDR3. That's about 8-50mw of the 500mw EU Standby power. So Second Chip as southbridge AOAC and GDDR5 in self refresh is possible. Memory in Self Refresh can not be used, as soon as a clock is active connected to that memory it's using more than 500mw..up to 8 watts depending on clock and how much data is being moved. There has to be a second LP memory pool used by the second chip.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Poll