PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

May 9, 2012
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The concern is that PS4 games will suffer because of devs focusing on PS4K.
Yeah I guess but do all xbone games suffer? No they(most) just run slightly worse. I would love for the graphics jump to be massive but I think it will be the difference between 30fps and 60 or 900p to 1080p. As others have said 4-500$ is a fraction of the cost needed for native 4K games. Devs where make games for where the most people are, and won't go out of their way to make a game amazing for 10% of gamers at the expense of the rest.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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Aug 7, 2015
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Actually, yes. Up front is pricey but CPUs from Intel have long lifespans and they said that they're not doing core count bumps anymore but architecture upgrades.
Beefy video card around $300 every 6 years doesn't sound far fetched considering how tech is progressing lately.
1080p gaming is getting cheaper and cheaper while 4k is but not at the same rate.
Really depends on the spec you are going for. Even with long lives certain aspects will be out of date after a 2 cycles, and that expensive up front isn't so up front anymore.

EDIT: Not to mention the residual value of consoles is better than PC parts. PS4s might be able to be sold for $200 when the PS4K comes out.
 
Nov 25, 2015
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Thought a list might help so people can see both sides of what this move means shall it continue of always having a tier 1 and tier 2 product.

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it).

Cons
• Faster transitions.
 

dose

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Yeah but everything else you said is zero issue. If only difference between the 2 versions is 1080p/60fps and 1080p/30fps is that a problem? Is it a problem that they demo the better version more prominently?
It's most definitely a problem because if you watch a trailer, how do you know that the game will run at that fps when you buy it? Also, having one run at 60fps and another at 30fps is also most definitely a problem. That gives an unfair advantage in MP.

Thought a list might help so people can see both sides of what this move means shall it continue of always having a tier 1 and tier 2 product.

Pros

Cons
LOL, just the one con? Fuck that shit, you obviously haven't been reading this thread or any of the other related ones.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Actually, yes. Up front is pricey but CPUs from Intel have long lifespans and they said that they're not doing core count bumps anymore but architecture upgrades.
Beefy video card around $300 every 6 years doesn't sound far fetched considering how tech is progressing lately.
1080p gaming is getting cheaper and cheaper while 4k is but not at the same rate.
And the rest of the stuff? Memory, motherboard if they change the architecture like you said? Not saying it's alot pricier but having build serveral (and uppgraded) I have never found this to be true. And not once have a GPU allowed me to play the latest games for 6 years unless you buy the top of the line stuff.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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Don't know how feel about only 2x of GPU power, if I understand it correctly, games that run 1080p 30fps will run at 1080p 60fps, that's not a big jump. Also, lets not forget that some games only run at 900p, the PS4K needs an even bigger boost then.
Most games seem CPU bound this generation, so to go to double the framerate at the same resolution would also need a CPU at least twice as fast.

If it's GPU alone, it's more likely just a resolution or detail bump.
 
May 9, 2012
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It's most definitely a problem because if you watch a trailer, how do you know that the game will run at that fps when you buy it? Also, having one run at 60fps and another at 30fps is also most definitely a problem. That gives an unfair advantage in MP.
Oh like every trailer now that is straight forward and truthfull and never running on dual titan pc's? Nothing will change on that front, you will STILL have no idea what you will actually get ;) as far as FPS in MP, most are 60 anyway. All the ones that are worth playing anyway.
 
Jun 23, 2013
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Thought a list might help so people can see both sides of what this move means shall it continue of always having a tier 1 and tier 2 product.

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it).

Cons
• Faster transitions.
Can't really have both.
 
I'd like to think of it as PS4 is Sony's Toyota and PS4K is their Lexus. They will be marketed separately and they are going to reach different audiences. I also think that this is a risk that they need to take, specifically when they are leader in market share to see if this is a viable revenue generator.
I keep up with this thread for responses like this. Great example and response.
 
May 9, 2012
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Thought a list might help so people can see both sides of what this move means shall it continue of always having a tier 1 and tier 2 product.

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it).

Cons
• Faster transitions.
Another pro would be choice for consumer on how much they want to spend since it will probably 200$ish difference. Although choices are usually hated on pretty hard. Exept easy mode in Dark Souls that should never be allowed!
 
Aug 7, 2015
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People called the xbox 360 the xbox 1.5 when it just came out because initially it didn't do anything the first xbox couldn't do either.

Also "power is rarely a barrier to creation anymore" , please we are so many years away from hitting diminishing returns on graphics, let alone on what game mechanics are possible.

Still waiting for a next gen wave race game with some convincing water simulation, or for any game to able to do something as basic as a mirror properly:p

Look at games like rainbow six siege or that microsoft crackdown 3 footage for a little glimpse of what can be done when you have more performance available than the old xbox 360 or the star citizen system multicrew and local gravity system (both sound so basic yet haven't been done in a multiplayer game before)

I think we haven't seen more than a glimpse of what's possible in games yet, but to do much more we'll need exponentially much more performance.
Graphics will continue to be better, yes. Even when they are cutting edge innovations like VR or higher res screens are going to call for better graphics and leave room for improvements.

My point on diminishing returns is more focused on game design. Power is not enabling different types of games anymore, making it easier to scale games down/up across different hardware specs.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Thought a list might help so people can see both sides of what this move means shall it continue of always having a tier 1 and tier 2 product.

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it).

Cons
• Faster transitions.

This!
 
Jan 23, 2011
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And the rest of the stuff? Memory, motherboard if they change the architecture like you said? Not saying it's alot pricier but having build serveral (and uppgraded) I have never found this to be true. And not once have a GPU allowed me to play the latest games for 6 years unless you buy the top of the line stuff.
You don't replace your motherboard or memory until you replace your cpu

People who bought an i5 2500k (190 euros) and p67 motherboard (100 euros) and 8GB of ddr3 (60 euros) back in 2011 are still using them and if they want to they'll keep using them for another 3-4 years as the cpu is still several times more powerful than the ps4 cpu; and on the pc cpus haven't gotten much better since then (might change with amd's new zen cpus at the end of the year).

If they're like me they'll probably still be using the same case (mine's from 2009 and I'll keep using it for another 10 years if I can, an ATX case is an ATX case it doesn't age, it has no moving parts to break) and power supply.

Tbh I find it sad that cpu performance progress has stalled almost completely , but the advantage is that you pretty much never have to buy a new cpu once you bought a decent one.
I'd personally like it much better if I still had to buy a new cpu every 3 years:p as that would mean games would be getting bigger and more advanced every 3 years thanks to large cpu performance improvements.

Graphics will continue to be better, yes. Even when they are cutting edge innovations like VR or higher res screens are going to call for better graphics and leave room for improvements.

My point on diminishing returns is more focused on game design. Power is not enabling different types of games anymore, making it easier to scale games down/up across different hardware specs.
That's what I mentioned rainbow 6 siege : the destruction of all the walls, not scripted but physics based, allowing you to create your own lines of sight (of dynamic sizes, be it bullet hole sized or blowing half a wall away) + the realtime dynamic GI needed to make the visuals work. That definitely wasn't possible on last gen

Crackdown 3 : Being able to dynamically demolish entire cities (and have the debries and building parts still be physical objects you can further interact with , walk on and use as cover) certainly wasn't possible last gen (and I seriously doubt it even possible this gen the way MS demod it)

Battlefield 3-4s destruction is child's play in comparison

Star citizen: the multi crew system from Star wars galaxies expanded into being able to EVA (leave the ships into zero gravity) and have proper ship physics and destructibility etc all at once in multiplayer has never been done and wasn't possible before


Those are exciting new gameplay applications.

Sure they don't happen as often (mostly because the transitioning to 3d in the late 90s opened to many new possibilities at once) as they used to but I'm sure that developers still constantly have to can ideas and concepts because they're still not feasible on modern hardware
 
Dec 6, 2008
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This isn't a generational shift. This is an enhancement. The games are being released on the same disk. They will appeal to the base with the largest number of consumers. That's the PS4.
This is semantics. If the "official" PS5 is x86 based like PS4 it could possibly play the games on those disks. Would that count as a generational shift or an enhancement?

We may need to prepare ourselves for a shift in the definition of 'generation' and what a console's lifecycle is.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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It's most definitely a problem because if you watch a trailer, how do you know that the game will run at that fps when you buy it? Also, having one run at 60fps and another at 30fps is also most definitely a problem. That gives an unfair advantage in MP.


LOL, just the one con? Fuck that shit, you obviously haven't been reading this thread or any of the other related ones.
You dont think devs are smart enough to if they are targeting 60 for MP they will have that on both? Like 900p60 and 1080p60. And outside of jelousy I have not found any other.
 
Nov 25, 2015
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Updated:

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it);
• Consumer choice regarding how much to spend.

Cons
• Faster transitions.
 
Oct 14, 2012
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This is semantics. If the "official" PS5 is x86 based like PS4 it could possibly play the games on those disks. Would that count as a generational shift or an enhancement?

We may need to prepare ourselves for a shift in the definition of 'generation' and what a console's lifecycle is.
PS4 wont be able to play PS5 titles, why wouldn't a PS5 in this scenario be a generation shift?
 
May 15, 2011
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There goes my reason for sticking to consoles for years. This is pretty fucked up for the people who just bought ps4 thinking it would last as a platform.
It is. But then again they're not completely locked out of playing PS4K games.

They'll be released on the PS4 too. Unless, of course, PS4K exclusives games does come into play.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Dec 5, 2008
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No it won't. It will probably be like those cross-gen ps3 titles that ran like shit. Minimum effort will go into the regular ps4 version just to ensure it's playable. That's how those things usually work between hardware generations. Always go full support on the newer generation hardware and minimum effort on the older. I think that's what people are really afraid of.
I keep seeing this brought up but I can't buy into it. Do you really think that publishers are going to allow devs to turn their back on a gigantic 40m+ userbase? You think these devs and publishers are going to develop games specifically for an upgraded platform that will likely never reach the current PS4/X1 combined userbase? You honestly think that they will leave that money on the table?

Think about this critically for a few minutes. The most likely scenario is that developers will continue to program with the PS4 as 'lead platform'. These games might be up-scaled to look a little better on the PS4K or maybe they have performance options to enable in the menus like PC games. The only dev houses I can imagine developing strictly for the PS4K are internal studios that are working on VR content. Your PS4 isn't going to suddenly turn into a pumpkin the minute after PS4K's hit the shelves.

People are way too in their feelings to even think rationally. It's incredible.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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PS4 wont be able to play PS5 titles, why wouldn't a PS5 in this scenario be a generation shift?
Well, if the industry actually moves into an incremental upgrade model it's possible that a PS4 could play a PS5 game, albeit at lower settings. So many people say that this is like an iPhone upgrade. Well, the iPhone 4 could run apps targeted to both the 4s and 5, but maybe without some features. It's possible that this could be the model for consoles of the future.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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I can't believe there are people here who think this is a good idea.

Perhaps even more hilarious is that people here think that this thing will run games at native 4K and cost as much as a PS4 today.
 
Mar 5, 2013
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The concern is that PS4 games will suffer because of devs focusing on PS4K.
That's some ridiculous logic. When PC games are made..they account for different specs..right? Why is it so hard to believe that they can optimize for both...its not like 100's of different pc spec scenarious....but its just 2....why can't the game be programmed to detect which ps4 it is...and then react accordingly? I'm pretty sure thats feasible. I'm sure someone will tell me if i'm talking crazy...


but my main concern is what happens in multiplayer....can 30 fps players play with 60 fps players?
 
The concern is that PS4 games will suffer because of devs focusing on PS4K.
Then there should be a concern with every multi platorm game, ever. Developers have been creating games for various hardware platforms and varying performance tiers on PC for quite some time. This has very little impact on the game development landscape.
 
Mar 5, 2013
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I can't believe there are people here who think this is a good idea.

Perhaps even more hilarious is that people here think that this thing will run games at native 4K and cost as much as a PS4 today.

I find it funny that so many people think they know more than Sony...a company who's footing the bill..as if they dont have a clue how to handle a business. really?
 
Dec 15, 2008
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When they announce the price, specs and games later this year (maybe not at E3), many of you will change the tones to ... OMG I want it, takemymoney.jpg, GOW looks so good, I can't wait... lol.

Better wait and see, I don't want to prejudge. To be honest, I am interested.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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You don't replace your motherboard or memory until you replace your cpu

People who bought an i5 2500k (190 euros) and p67 motherboard (100 euros) and 8GB of ddr3 (60 euros) back in 2011 are still using them and if they want to they'll keep using them for another 3-4 years as the cpu is still several times more powerful than the ps4 cpu; and on the pc cpus haven't gotten much better since then (might change with amd's new zen cpus at the end of the year).

If they're like me they'll probably still be using the same case (mine's from 2009 and I'll keep using it for another 10 years if I can, an ATX case is an ATX case it doesn't age, it has no moving parts to break) and power supply.


Tbh I find it sad that cpu performance progress has stalled almost completely , but the advantage is that you pretty much never have to buy a new cpu once you bought a decent one.

I'd personally like it much better if I still had to buy a new cpu every 3 years:p as that would mean games would be getting bigger and more advanced every 3 years thanks to large cpu performance improvements.
Remind me what the minimum spec CPU and how much memory you need to play Quantum Break have again? Power equals nothing when developers dont put in the work to do good ports like it have always been on PC sadly. And like I said if you dont go top of the line the latest games will not run on your PC a few years lager and you are forced to uppgrade something. Sometimes it's cheap like some memory and sometimes it is the CPU and it will be expensive. Statying in the middle is offcourse cheaper but you will still run in to bottelnecks only faster.
 
Nov 25, 2015
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Updated:

Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it);
• Consumer choice regarding how much to spend.

Cons
• Faster transitions.
• Exclusives on PS4K due to not being possible on PS4.
 

AmyS

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Aug 22, 2012
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It's not about diminishing returns in game development, It's more about the slowing down of hardware advancements. Between 2005 and 2011 we have had 3 die shrinks, tripled the clocks on GPUs and increased the die sizes by ~2-3x. Meanwhile we haven't had a die shrink in almost 5 years.

The same applies to consoles too:

PS2 -> PS3 40X the power
PS3 -> PS4 10X the power, while at the same time being the longest console generation ever.
And...

PS1 -> PS2 300X the power.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Many of the same people who believe in this probably also believed in the NX controller "leak". I wouldn't be surprised.

This thing won't play native 4K games at today's PS4 price point. It just won't.
 
May 9, 2012
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I can't believe there are people here who think this is a good idea.

Perhaps even more hilarious is that people here think that this thing will run games at native 4K and cost as much as a PS4 today.
I can't believe people think it's a bad idea! You can CHOSE to not buy it and continue to use your PS4 as you normally would. I will CHOSE to buy PS4K and have slightly better/smoother gameplay. What's the problem? And don't say all PS4 games will suddenly be 720p and 20fps, cause yes other people have claimed that.

But yeah that 2nd one is rediculous.
 
Aug 22, 2005
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Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it);
• Consumer choice regarding how much to spend.

Cons
• Faster transitions.
• Exclusives on PS4K due to not being possible on PS4.
Where is this coming from?

From my understanding, the will make games that take advantage off the abilities of the PS4K, but also release the same game on the PS4, but obviously lower resolution, lower IQ, lower frame rates etc. I have not read anything that would indicate PS4K exclusive games.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Pros
• Backwards and forwards compatibility;
• No more restarting OS from scratch;
• Less risk with introducing new (costly) tech;
• Less chance of PS2/3 situations for devs having to learn alien tech;
• Closer to the bleeding edge (for those that want it);
• Consumer choice regarding how much to spend.

Cons
• Faster transitions.
• Exclusives on PS4K due to not being possible on PS4.
This is a fallacy. Not possible on PS4 doesn't make any sense PS4 K will have better performance that's all
 
Nov 25, 2015
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Several gaffers believe their PS4 just became worthless.
Certain games might not meet the required 60fps for PSVR on current PS4 hardware which will be possible on PS4K.

Really they wouldn't get the game anyway but if people want to trumpet a divide between consoles then that would be the only factor.