bigboss370
Member
I completely agree. If only more people did this. I fully support private buying/selling used games. Wether they (GS) try to force it or not, they're pretty much the premiere game selling store.
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#PS4NoDRM #XboxOneNoDRM || Now do you "Believe?"
- Thread starter famousmortimer
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I completely agree. If only more people did this. I fully support private buying/selling used games. Wether they (GS) try to force it or not, they're pretty much the premiere game selling store.
Then don't fucking go to GS.
There are plenty of ways to sell a used game without a reseller like GS.
Humans are lazy, that's one of the reasons GS is so damn popular.
But could we please shift this discussion into another topic ?
There are plenty of topics where you could speak about it without derailing this topic.
njean777
Member
Then it is the consumers ignorance getting the best of them, Gamestop can charge what they want. You cannot force them to give more money for games. IF the people want to trade into gamestop then let them.
bigboss370
Member
Like I said, I agree with that. I don't go to GS. Calm down lol.
Sickboy007
Member
If you assume gamers will do the economical thing and buy low, you also have to assume they sell high, right? So, to them, it's fair.
famousmortimer
Banned
The thing about this used game drm is that isn't not going to eliminate it, it's going to create a system that gives the publishers money which means we will *have* to use gamestop. What we will lose is the ability to sell the games ourselves, person to person.
Alright, im off to bed at this point. I have been tweeting, emailing, getting in touch with consumer rights groups(trying anyway), everything that I can to help. I wont lie if this turns out to be all for nothing it will be massively disappointing, but it will finally give me an excuse to invest in a gaming rig. This would be the first Sony console I dont own, and the first generation ill skip consoles. I just hope Sony is really listening, because I want to support them but I wont if they wont support us.
If I was not all the way on the other side of the countrybI would be up for protesting at E3, though I dont know how many would bother with something like that.
If I was not all the way on the other side of the countrybI would be up for protesting at E3, though I dont know how many would bother with something like that.
This. I just have to #dealwithit
I'll have to buy a japanese 3DS down the road. I know.
My twit username is same as on GAF so if anyone wants to follow me...I'll follow you.
It is greed, Jaffe has never been the smartest, just the loudest.
There is basically this deep conflict between a creator driven royalty based system and a consumer driven ownership system. The former has seen battles in patents, trademarks and efforts to extend them to perpetuity (see Disney Mickey Mouse). The latter is driven by a consumer's right to do anything with a product once purchased because it is his. These rights are continually being eroded as corps extend their influence.
Imagine IBM getting a slice of the royalty when you sell your used IBM laptop on Craigslist.
Imagine your grandfather having to pay Disney a fee as he passes down a rare Mickey toy to you.
People like Jaffe have big mouths but ultimately will not be willing to live down a world that they champion.
bigboss370
Member
You'er right, it is gamer ignorance. They could buy games much cheaper elsewhere. But like I said, GS owns the game selling market.
assume who sells high, GS or gamers?
yeah, I'm totally for the #PS4noDRM movement, don't get me wrong. I just think there's a middle ground that publishers can try for without affecting consumers negatively. I don't really think its comparable to other industries.
Kinda ironic that Publishers are saying GS is the devil and then they're good enough once they've got a solution to get a piece of the pie with the new system.
@bigboss370
I've read your comment once my posting was already done.
Sorry, but there are so many discussions regarding that topic, it kinda ruins the fun here.
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
What's this?
Angry Fork
Member
I wish this kind of internet determination could be applied to gathering support for a 3rd political party in the US =/ And not the damn libertarians.
Orpheus Telos
Member
This. I just have to #dealwithit
I'll have to buy a japanese 3DS down the road. I know.
My twit username is same as on GAF so if anyone wants to follow me...I'll follow you.
I followed you. I don't usually post much if at all, but I do go on from time to time to see what other people are saying.
Sickboy007
Member
Gamers, since they still have a choice.
And for the end user all that means is that he's getting less money for his games, and used games that are even more expensive.
Locally owned store.
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
Guess I missed something, lol.Yes, I know.
famousmortimer
Banned
If publishers and console makers hate gamestop because of used sales they should stop selling their products in their stores. Fight them, not us.
If this goes through it will be MS+Sony+Publishers+gamestop all against us. How do they expect that to be a sustainable strategy? At some point you have to stop treating your customers like crooks or they are going to walk away.
If this goes through it will be MS+Sony+Publishers+gamestop all against us. How do they expect that to be a sustainable strategy? At some point you have to stop treating your customers like crooks or they are going to walk away.
Sickboy007
Member
bigboss370
Member
totally agreed.
Shameless self promotion here but hopefully this helps towards the cause -
https://twitter.com/lvlzerodotcom/status/339235431344377856
https://twitter.com/lvlzerodotcom/status/339235431344377856
Stillmatic
Member
Yeah I see where you're coming from. Instead of concentrating their efforts on taking away consumer rights, devs/publishers/console creators should be focusing on:
- Retailers getting charged a fee to resell a game.
- Middle man created to handle all fees from retailers to publishers/devs, who also get a cut for handling it all.
Which sounds like what MS are doing, but just taking it way too far. In the solution above there really is no need for the other nonsense with having to install the game, or regular online checking. The copy should be flagged when it's resold to retail where the middle man distributes the money from the sale. So for the consumer it should stay the same way it is currently. Consumers should have a choice to sell a game back to retail knowingly contributing to devs/publishers, or if they wish to do so, sell it privately without any fees going to pubs/devs.
Something is better than nothing. I'm sure a lot of people would rather choose to sell games back to retail knowing it's contributing to devs, rather than sell privately.
Ahhh, you're insane good sir!
I've got access to some industry monitoring tools which have access to the Twitter Firehose, so if you want stats I can just pull them out periodically without too much effort.
Currently I've got
13,964 total tweets for #ps4nodrm. 8311 of those are tweets and 5653 are retweets.
Impressions total 9,328,867.
#ps4usedgames is the most used hashtag within those tweets at 6,748.
3544 #ps4nodrm tweets mention @yosp
I've got bucketloads more data, so if you're curious for something else hit me up.
Good to know that I wasted a lot of time. LOL. Most of the people saying they were using tools were tools that were estimating rather than giving actual stuff. So I figured I'll do a manual one which would still be a lot more accurate than these estimates even though it'll have some retweets and what not included (since I'm not actually going through every single tweet).
Anyways, I supposed one update every 24 or 48 hours since this started would be good.
Thanks for contributing
Sickboy007
Member
I wouldn't, and I rarely resell. Again, how many times should I pay them for their work? Because retailers getting charged means retailers paying me less, and me losing money on the sale. Why should they be able to influence the second-hand price?
How about they budget their costs better, and don't hire the scriptwriter of Traffic to write a story about a mocapped, fully scanned Navy SEAL Team Six Dog?
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
I just meant that those don't exist where I live anymore as far as game stores go, and pretty soon anything else. :/
Gamestop pretty much wiped them out around here around ten years ago.
bigboss370
Member
or selling (your used game) for more, which I would be fine with.
I think his comments are being looked at from the wrong angle.
He is right, Gamestop does NOT deserve to make money and have an empire off of these people's work, this is damn truth. But while devs moan about them, publishers feed the monster with pre-order bonuses and exclusive dlc and other garbage.
Gamestop could rot for all I care and I wish that they would, but publishers helped make that monster and they continue to do so.
Let publishers do their own trade in service, then they can resell their own games, instead of taking rights offer more solutions.
Stillmatic
Member
You'd have the option to resell privately.
Baller. PhD
Banned
Excellent.
Origami Superman
Member
Not a waste of time! You were pretty accurate with what you had.
Most of the sites people were using were likely free ones, which are a little crap since they aren't likely partnered with Twitter officially, and so using your method would be better than using any of those. If you have a few thousand dollars lying around, its best to use industry tools like Radian, Meltwater, Brandwatch etc to monitor these sorts of things.
Ah, I see.
stop selling to GameStop?
They force me to buy from GameStop with exclusive Pre order .
Sickboy007
Member
Still doesn't sit right with me. It's a discriminatory practice, the producer shouldn't have a say in the offer of the second-hand market. I can't see it flying in courts, either.
Ok the reason gamestop can make so much money off used games is because a seller agrees to a low price and a buyer agrees to a high price. They both do so knowing full well that there are alternatives that will net the seller more money & cost the buyer less money, but they agree to the shitty value because gamestop provides convenience. That is their business model.
Are publishers going to set up brick & mortar shops, or maybe even an online trade in system? Because thats the only way they are entitled to a second cut of the profit, along with the associated business risks that comes with the model. No. They want none of the risk gamestop is taking but want to benefit from the system.
The game industry is making the MPAA & RIAA look like saints. Because the MPAA & RIAA aren't fighting second hand sales but piracy, and consumers still rejected their bullshit. But we are supposed to be okay the most restrictive form of DRM because the game industry can't get it's shit together?
Jaffe is living in a world where math doesn't exist & publishers can get a second cut of the profits without the cost coming down on the consumer. Show me a single way where I can sell a game private party, have the publisher get a cut & not effect how much I can sell a game for. It doesn't fucking exist & Jaffe can fuck off.
The PC industry is thrown in as a no used game allowed model. Bullshit. Right now I can buy a physical copy of Borderlands 2, play the game & resell it. The PC industry adapted by making the digital sales competitive, not by disallowing used game sales.
The option to kill the used game industry exists right now in all consoles, its PSN, XBOX Marketplace & Wii Shop. But they have to provide a better value for consumers, which involves competition. Instead they want to provide a physical copy while taking away all the benefits of buying a disc.
The game industry wants to monopolize & regulate prices, when they should be trying to compete.
Are publishers going to set up brick & mortar shops, or maybe even an online trade in system? Because thats the only way they are entitled to a second cut of the profit, along with the associated business risks that comes with the model. No. They want none of the risk gamestop is taking but want to benefit from the system.
The game industry is making the MPAA & RIAA look like saints. Because the MPAA & RIAA aren't fighting second hand sales but piracy, and consumers still rejected their bullshit. But we are supposed to be okay the most restrictive form of DRM because the game industry can't get it's shit together?
Jaffe is living in a world where math doesn't exist & publishers can get a second cut of the profits without the cost coming down on the consumer. Show me a single way where I can sell a game private party, have the publisher get a cut & not effect how much I can sell a game for. It doesn't fucking exist & Jaffe can fuck off.
The PC industry is thrown in as a no used game allowed model. Bullshit. Right now I can buy a physical copy of Borderlands 2, play the game & resell it. The PC industry adapted by making the digital sales competitive, not by disallowing used game sales.
The option to kill the used game industry exists right now in all consoles, its PSN, XBOX Marketplace & Wii Shop. But they have to provide a better value for consumers, which involves competition. Instead they want to provide a physical copy while taking away all the benefits of buying a disc.
The game industry wants to monopolize & regulate prices, when they should be trying to compete.
Sickboy007
Member
Well said werks.
Baller. PhD
Banned
Actually you can't. Borderlands 2 is a Steamworks game, so every copy -- even those purchased at retail -- must be registered on Steam. Once you do that, the physical disc is essentially useless. It's actually exactly what MS is proposing for the Xbone.
Your point still stands though, that was just a bad example to use.
I agree with this 100%.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Yea.. pretty much every large game for the last few years uses Steamworks and thus you cannot resell the game if you install it.
famousmortimer
Banned
Alright folks I'm off to bed. Well, I'm sure I'll check the thread a few more times in bed before falling asleep. But i won't be able to update the op for the next 8 hours or so. Mods, of course, can.
bigboss370
Member
Orpheus Telos
Member
It's only 10 PM on the west coast, the night is still young. (I myself am on the east coast though)
I'm a consumer too, and I'm no hypocrite. I've sold old games in order to buy new ones, picked up a used game and ended up becoming a fan of the developer, and wouldn't dream of trying to keep anyone who's enjoyed my games from trading it in towards something else. Now - is it annoying as hell to see a retailer or reseller attempt to sell me a used game for 5 bucks less than new? Absolutely. Would I like to see some of that money go back to the developer/publisher/financial stakeholders? Sure! I'd be lying if I said I didn't.
Unless or until this industry can figure out a way to make that happen without passing additional costs over to the customer, however, the status quo - consumer rights intact - should remain. Used games and lack of DRM aren't the reason behind developers going under. It's the homogenization of design, the approval of unrealistic development and marketing budgets for B-tier titles competing in the AAA-tier space. Know who you are and spend accordingly, instead of chasing a very small slice of the pie that's already committed to the one or two behemoths in that particular genre, whether it be FPS, MOBA, what have you.
Some motherfuckers always trying to ice-skate uphill.
Baller. PhD
Banned
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