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PS5 1200 model uses 6nm SoC - [Angstronomics]

kyliethicc

Member
1200 model PS5 uses 6nm SoC

Bit smaller die, uses less energy, allowed Sony to shrink the heatsink.

They can produce more of these dies per wafer as well. (TSMC is moving most of its N7 to N6.)


In the last month, Sony has begun the rollout of their latest revision of the PlayStation 5, model CFI-1202. There has already been a teardown showing the model’s redesigned board and cooling that is smaller and lighter. Power consumption is also reduced while giving the similar performance. To accomplish this, AMD’s Semi-Custom design teams have ported the PS5 silicon to TSMC N6, codename Oberon Plus. Angstronomics reveals exclusive images of the new, smaller die, and we discuss the how and the why behind this update.

These console refreshes are the modern-day equivalent of what used to happen decades ago in the microprocessor industry, where existing designs would be ported to a new, more efficient process node with minimal rework. For this example, TSMC ensures that their 6nm EUV process is Design Rule Compatible with their N7 DUV process, meaning that customers can reuse existing designs made for N7 to use on N6, with a simple conversion process that does not alter the underlying high-level synthesis.

Along with an 18.8% increase in logic transistor density thanks to CPODE (which you can learn about in our article here), N6 also lowers power consumption for a given performance level vs N7. This is what enables the reduced wall power of the latest PS5 revision, with less requirement for heat rejection and hence a smaller, lighter cooler. As TSMC completes its transition to increase EUV adoption and move most products to N6 from N7, we get updates like Oberon Plus. While most fabless companies would just design a new product on N6, game consoles demand absolute low-level platform hardware and software compatibility. This is why we see the exact same design being ported with zero configuration changes, including keeping with the reduced Floating Point Unit in the Zen 2 CPU cores (which we will also see in Ryzen 7020 Series ‘Mendocino’).

With an exclusive side-by-side comparison showing 6nm Oberon Plus next to 7nm Oberon, we can see what has physically changed in the 2 years between them. Die size has gone from ~300 mm² to below 260 mm², a shrink of close to 15%. What this means in the end is that each wafer processed can produce near 20% more chips for a similar cost.

The game console business works on selling hardware cheap and generating revenue in game sales. As such, it is paramount to minimize production costs to generate meaningful profit margins. With the aforementioned smaller die and lighter cooler enabled by lower power consumption, we estimate that each new PS5 going forward costs Sony around 12% less to make overall, which helps to recoup program development costs sooner than if no die shrink took place.

As the PS5 is the most produced out of the 3 current generation consoles (PS5/XSX/XSS) and thus sees the biggest benefit moving to N6 first. Going forward, only Oberon Plus will be produced, and 7nm Oberon production stopped. And while one can make near 50% more PS5 chips per wafer than Xbox Series X chips, the latter will also get its 6nm update of Arden in the future.

6nm on the left, 7nm on the right

 
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hemo memo

Member
So now not only you need to still look out for the chance to buy a PS5, you also need to be lucky to get the right version, FML.
Or just play your PS4 as everything is cross-gen and wait for the console to be widely available and scalpers to be fucked by their own supply that no one would by that they have to sell for lower than the actual price.

But nah who I’m kidding. People have no patience and the fucking scalpers will win yet again.
 

kyliethicc

Member
So now not only you need to still look out for the chance to buy a PS5, you also need to be lucky to get the right version, FML.
Nope. The 1200 model will soon be the only one you can buy. If it’s not already. Old models are not being made anymore.

We need slim ps5 🎮🎮
2023


Any idea how much less power it uses?
A guy found it’s about 20 watts less with a quick test. Not much, but a little bit.
 

Loxus

Member
Depending of the PS5 model, 1000 or 1100, respectively 10% and 12% less based on Austin's video.That's using max power consumption (1000 ~220W, 1100 ~230W, 1200 ~200W).
Not exactly.
I posted this in the other thread.
Austin's numbers aren't adding up.
I only thing I don't understand is Austin's power consumption numbers.

Launch model (1000) is around 200W.

Even Digital Foundry seems skeptical.
DF Direct Weekly: what should we expect from the new PS5 CFI-1200 revision?
From my perspective, it is the power consumption numbers that are most interesting. Evans talks about a reduced power draw compared to the prior units he's tested, but the nature of the observation is inconclusive in that his CFI-1100 power draw number was actually higher than his figure taken from the launch unit, while this one is correspondingly lower. Fundamentally, the silicon did not change between CFI-1000 and CFI-1100, so is this reduced power draw actually down to a chip revision? Or is it simply down to variances in the quality of the silicon - which can change on a per chip basis? Or maybe Sony has moved onto lower power memory modules? Regardless, a power consumption figure in or around 200W is still in the broad ballpark of the launch machine.

We definitely need a reliable source other than Austin.
 
The die shrink was probably more about heat generation than wattage. The smaller node and heatsink redesign in the video I saw dropped the temps from the 1100 model down by around ~10 degrees. Much needed given the clocks the PS5 runs at.

New to the 1200 model we also saw a much smaller mainboard. I'm curious, the PS5 is on its 3rd iteration, has had a die shrink and substantial internal redesign; along with the price increase I don't think Sony will be the first out the gate with a pro tier device if they even bother. Currently, they can still hardly keep the PS5 on store shelves as they are moving so many units. I may be assuming too much but that's the way it looks to me.
 

Rudius

Member
Nice. I have my launch PS5 working perfectly and would only trade it for a pro model, but this should help Sony in increasing production at lower costs.

Given the cost reduction, they shouldn't have increased the price in certain markets, but quietly produced more of the disk version at the same price while pushing bundles with a game included for 50 bucks extra.
 
Is Sony going to continue building both 6nm and 7nm variants?

Does Microsoft have a 6 nm chip shrink as well? If not, does that mean PS5 supply should increase dramatically?

Is this really about cost or more about supply? Is it a good assumption that 6 nm is cheaper to produce if it runs on more limited fabs?
 
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Stupid jim ryan doesn't care that I may go homeless from that extra £30. How will I survive such financial difficulty?
That's not what's at stake obviously.

If they really had to increase the price there's plenty ways for a company with digital storefronts to make it up for the costumer without losing money, just give them a game or two the majority of them wouldn't buy anyway (uncharted collection, god of war 2018, spiderman 2018, Uncharted 4 I dunno), a few months of PSN, some themes/skins, a fucking discount code/store credit coupon. something worth £30. It's not hard.

They gave people more during Covid with the Play at Home initiative two years straight just for good publicity/to look good. And people had to visit the store claim the freebies, most didn't.

Also, it's kinda crazy considering that they didn't raise the price in the US.
Is Sony going to continue building both 6nm and 7nm variants?
Doubt it, otherwise they wouldn't shrink the copper heatsink.
 
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skit_data

Member
Well, that makes sense. I was starting to wonder how they could reduce the size of the heatsink so drastically without sacrificing cooling or revving up that fan.
 

GHG

Member
I'll just leave this here.

TSMC has already raised its quotes by 10-20% for both mature and advanced nodes starting this year, forcing its partners to also increase prices.


But if anyone can find some credible information that supports the narrative/theory that it's actually getting cheaper for these chips and consoles to be produced and reach shelves (inclusive of raw materials, supply chains, etc) compared to the economic conditions they launched in then I'll be more than interested to read it.

In the meantime it's always entertaining to see how false narratives gather momentum, so please continue.
 
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In the meantime it's always entertaining to see how false narratives gather momentum, so please continue.
I see, so Nvidia is also justified in their actions, TSMC was the culprit all along.

Nobody is making money in this industry so they can't swallow a temporary price increase instead of charging us who are feeling the inflation first hand.

I'm sure Sony will post losses anytime now.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
PS5 covers a large amount of media, Sony did a great job with its original design they’ll work out the shipment needs that one game god of war you know will be AAA.
 

AGRacing

Member
I'm kind of surprised it's 6nm... haven't heard about many chips using this. I wonder if this increased manufacturing capacity by switching to it vs. perhaps smaller....
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
Is Sony going to continue building both 6nm and 7nm variants?

Does Microsoft have a 6 nm chip shrink as well? If not, does that mean PS5 supply should increase dramatically?

Is this really about cost or more about supply? Is it a good assumption that 6 nm is cheaper to produce if it runs on more limited fabs?

This die shrink will both reduce cost and increase supply because you can get more chips from the same size wafer.

TSMC stated earlier in the year that they planned to move many of their 7nm customers to 6nm, so expect the 7nm version of both consoles to disappear from the store shelves.

The article states that Xbox will also get the die shrink in the near future.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I'll just leave this here.




But if anyone can find some credible information that supports the narrative/theory that it's actually getting cheaper for these chips and consoles to be produced and reach shelves (inclusive of raw materials, supply chains, etc) compared to the economic conditions they launched in then I'll be more than interested to read it.

In the meantime it's always entertaining to see how false narratives gather momentum, so please continue.
Yup, Sony seems to be going (IMHO) for a rapid increase in production / volumes and to remove blockers in the supply chain (including reducing the copper they use). I think that they are not getting very cheap deals.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I see, so Nvidia is also justified in their actions, TSMC was the culprit all along.
There is a difference between the price rise in one product line vs the other ;). Still, yeah there is greed in what nVIDIA has done but there are true challenges in designing and manufacturing chips of that size, complexity, and on those advanced high demand manufacturing nodes. We need to wake up and smell the coffe ;).
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
This die shrink will both reduce cost and increase supply because you can get more chips from the same size wafer.

TSMC stated earlier in the year that they planned to move many of their 7nm customers to 6nm, so expect the 7nm version of both consoles to disappear from the store shelves.

The article states that Xbox will also get the die shrink in the near future.
I think this is more about increasing supply and streamlining the supply chain more than reducing costs. If anything demand Vs supply would allow TSMC to gouge their clients.
 

Skifi28

Member
Stupid jim ryan doesn't care that I may go homeless from that extra £30. How will I survive such financial difficulty?
No need to go homeless, just stop using electricity, gas and fuel and you're golden.
Not a real die shrink. That would be 5nm.

6 is just a denser version of TSMC 7nm.

Yeah, not exactly a shrink to die for.
 
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jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
I'll just leave this here.




But if anyone can find some credible information that supports the narrative/theory that it's actually getting cheaper for these chips and consoles to be produced and reach shelves (inclusive of raw materials, supply chains, etc) compared to the economic conditions they launched in then I'll be more than interested to read it.

In the meantime it's always entertaining to see how false narratives gather momentum, so please continue.
Of course, but some ppl like to think prices increases are just because or greed. Every business affected by this will respond differently.

On a related note:


And it happened in 2021:


Fedex basically will have had increases going on 3 years straight when 2023 gets here.

And I'm more focused on this from the article:

"With an exclusive side-by-side comparison showing 6nm Oberon Plus next to 7nm Oberon, we can see what has physically changed in the 2 years between them. Die size has gone from ~300 mm² to below 260 mm², a shrink of close to 15%. What this means in the end is that each wafer processed can produce near 20% more chips for a similar cost.

The game console business works on selling hardware cheap and generating revenue in game sales. As such, it is paramount to minimize production costs to generate meaningful profit margins. With the aforementioned smaller die and lighter cooler enabled by lower power consumption, we estimate that each new PS5 going forward costs Sony around 12% less to make overall, which helps to recoup program development costs sooner than if no die shrink took place.

As the PS5 is the most produced out of the 3 current generation consoles (PS5/XSX/XSS) and thus sees the biggest benefit moving to N6 first. Going forward, only Oberon Plus will be produced, and 7nm Oberon production stopped. And while one can make near 50% more PS5 chips per wafer than Xbox Series X chips, the latter will also get its 6nm update of Arden in the future."

Someone had an issue when I said uphill battle, well......this is one way how an uphill battle gets created.

It is what it is.
 
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Cheaper to produce yet they increase the price....
Manufacturing may be cheaper per unit than it is now but who knows if the costs had gone up during production because of materials shortages? Also, shipping and other materials have become more expensive. Just look at Europe, there are rivers that are so low from drought that large barges that were usually used to move products can't be used so smaller lighter boats are having to do it which means less product moved per shipment which means paying for more boats to take the product, that or more expensive forms of shipping like air shipping when available. It all adds up quickly so taking this one thing and pretending like that's all there is to it isn't really an honest accounting of what's happening.
 

MrA

Member
We need slim ps5 🎮🎮
sony does too, the current model is huge and complicated, like twice the number of parts as the xsx, one more hardware revision should get to the slim model, probably be the size of ps4 still, but way better plus it leaves plenty of room for a super slim model 2-3 years later. Hopefully the external blu ray solution is real as it means no one is stuck with a choice
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Sony is an hardware company so it doesn’t surprise me they have been moving fast in order to produce more PS5s.
 

Rocco Schiavone

I am terrified of Microsoft and am always concerned about them.
I'll just leave this here.




But if anyone can find some credible information that supports the narrative/theory that it's actually getting cheaper for these chips and consoles to be produced and reach shelves (inclusive of raw materials, supply chains, etc) compared to the economic conditions they launched in then I'll be more than interested to read it.

In the meantime it's always entertaining to see how false narratives gather momentum, so please continue.

TSMC increased prices?? But I thought it was all greedy Jim Ryans fault.😒
 
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