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PS5 - 6 Million; Xbox Series X/S - 3.94 Million - VgChartz

Elios83

Member
But by now the supply is still greater on Sonys side. Nothing to do with newer RDNA2 tech.

It never had anything to do with RDNA2.
That was just Phil Spencer's PR line to try to spin a negative (poor planning, poor demand forecast, inability to handle covid related difficulties quickly) into a positive ("this only happened because we wanted to give you the best! we're so good guys,see??" :messenger_tears_of_joy: ).
AMD completed their work on their SOC in December 2019. Microsoft themselves started to post pictures of their final APU in January 2020 and Phil Spencer even used it as his profile picture for a while. The silicon was done well before the end of summer 2020 when their production started.
Actually the narrative was that Sony was far behind because they were hiding the console design and they were dealing with how to handle the last minute overclock :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The reality is simply that Microsoft planned production poorly, they targeted Xbox One launch production level and reserved quantities from their suppliers based on that expectation and they had delays because of covid, travel restrictions and other issues impacting manufacturing plants, things that Sony openly discussed about in their financial reports.

About hardware sales, gap is only going to get bigger, Sony has so much demand that they're the ones being damaged the most by this shortages situation. Now that they have been able to ramp up production past PS4 levels since February gap will grow really quickly and it already is big. People expected Xbox Series to make up ground compared to Xbox One, so far in the US they're behind and gap is already bigger.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
They expect to move more PS5s, but is that actually the case? Do we have any hard data on whether they manage to move the consoles or just sit on them? I don't think at this point in time we can draw any conclusions.
Either way it's a sale
 
IMO this will continue to be an excuse. Unless it was hardware related. They way they came out the gate with next gen pr and info you would have sworn MS would be in a better situation supply wise.

Remember all the " why is Sony so quiet???" talk? Yeah....

It never had anything to do with RDNA2.
That was just Phil Spencer's PR line to try to spin a negative (poor planning, poor demand forecast, inability to handle covid related difficulties quickly) into a positive ("this only happened because we wanted to give you the best! we're so good guys,see??" :messenger_tears_of_joy: ).
AMD completed their work on their SOC in December 2019. Microsoft themselves started to post pictures of their final APU in January 2020 and Phil Spencer even used it as his profile picture for a while. The silicon was done well before the end of summer 2020 when their production started.
Actually the narrative was that Sony was far behind because they were hiding the console design and they were dealing with how to handle the last minute overclock :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The reality is simply that Microsoft planned production poorly, they targeted Xbox One launch production level and reserved quantities from their suppliers based on that expectation and they had delays because of covid, travel restrictions and other issues impacting manufacturing plants, things that Sony openly discussed about in their financial reports.

About hardware sales, gap is only going to get bigger, Sony has so much demand that they're the ones being damaged the most by this shortages situation. Now that they have been able to ramp up production past PS4 levels since February gap will grow really quickly and it already is big. People expected Xbox Series to make up ground compared to Xbox One, so far in the US they're behind and gap is already bigger.

I can agree that Microsofts delayed production did affect sales at launch. But we are past that so current production levels can't be affected by RDNA2 hardware availability. Both systems use the same method of production. There's nothing about RDNA2 that's going to cause Microsoft to produce less consoles.

The reality is that Sony is probably able to produce more PS5 than Microsoft is able to produce Xboxs. That's really the only thing that can explain the supply differences. Not Microsoft waiting on RDNA2 because we are way past launch.
 

Larvana

Member
It never had anything to do with RDNA2.
That was just Phil Spencer's PR line to try to spin a negative (poor planning, poor demand forecast, inability to handle covid related difficulties quickly) into a positive ("this only happened because we wanted to give you the best! we're so good guys,see??" :messenger_tears_of_joy: ).
AMD completed their work on their SOC in December 2019. Microsoft themselves started to post pictures of their final APU in January 2020 and Phil Spencer even used it as his profile picture for a while. The silicon was done well before the end of summer 2020 when their production started.
Actually the narrative was that Sony was far behind because they were hiding the console design and they were dealing with how to handle the last minute overclock :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The reality is simply that Microsoft planned production poorly, they targeted Xbox One launch production level and reserved quantities from their suppliers based on that expectation and they had delays because of covid, travel restrictions and other issues impacting manufacturing plants, things that Sony openly discussed about in their financial reports.

About hardware sales, gap is only going to get bigger, Sony has so much demand that they're the ones being damaged the most by this shortages situation. Now that they have been able to ramp up production past PS4 levels since February gap will grow really quickly and it already is big. People expected Xbox Series to make up ground compared to Xbox One, so far in the US they're behind and gap is already bigger.
Oh boy... you're so delusional, lol.
 
Both systems use the same method of production. There's nothing about RDNA2 that's going to cause Microsoft to produce less consoles.

The reality is that Sony is probably able to produce more PS5 than Microsoft is able to produce Xboxs. That's really the only thing that can explain the supply differences. Not Microsoft waiting on RDNA2 because we are way past launch.

Well, one company, according to TSMC ordered 2x more chips for console
 

truth411

Member
It never had anything to do with RDNA2.
That was just Phil Spencer's PR line to try to spin a negative (poor planning, poor demand forecast, inability to handle covid related difficulties quickly) into a positive ("this only happened because we wanted to give you the best! we're so good guys,see??" :messenger_tears_of_joy: ).
AMD completed their work on their SOC in December 2019. Microsoft themselves started to post pictures of their final APU in January 2020 and Phil Spencer even used it as his profile picture for a while. The silicon was done well before the end of summer 2020 when their production started.
Actually the narrative was that Sony was far behind because they were hiding the console design and they were dealing with how to handle the last minute overclock :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The reality is simply that Microsoft planned production poorly, they targeted Xbox One launch production level and reserved quantities from their suppliers based on that expectation and they had delays because of covid, travel restrictions and other issues impacting manufacturing plants, things that Sony openly discussed about in their financial reports.

About hardware sales, gap is only going to get bigger, Sony has so much demand that they're the ones being damaged the most by this shortages situation. Now that they have been able to ramp up production past PS4 levels since February gap will grow really quickly and it already is big. People expected Xbox Series to make up ground compared to Xbox One, so far in the US they're behind and gap is already bigger.
What is the source that Sony have been able to ramp up production?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
MS has a problem insofar as they need to maintain two supply chains compared to Sony's one. The S and X models don't actually share that much component wise, its not just a matter of binning.
 
MS like always.
b0267a1709c2ea8afde71249c12a1903.gif
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
MS has a problem insofar as they need to maintain two supply chains compared to Sony's one. The S and X models don't actually share that much component wise, its not just a matter of binning.
Exactly.

While many were talking about MS doing a pincer attack with 2 sku's...... Sony surprised everyone with 2 also, but its basically one, just modded. That and the PS5 sits in an amazing position with price and performance.
 

truth411

Member
Looking at history is there any reason for the Xbox to outsell the PS5?

I mean it's a pretty safe bet that it is in my opinion.
Im not talking about Xbox outselling PlayStation. Im asking what is the source that Sony was able to ramp up production since February as per the post. There is a global supply shortage of SOC. Rumor is since apple moving to 5nm that frees up more 7nm chips for AMD, but we wont see the effects of that till maybe this Holiday.
 
Im not talking about Xbox outselling PlayStation. Im asking what is the source that Sony was able to ramp up production since February as per the post. There is a global supply shortage of SOC. Rumor is since apple moving to 5nm that frees up more 7nm chips for AMD, but we wont see the effects of that till maybe this Holiday.

Restocks seem to be happening more often but I don't know if that's an indication of supply getting better. My feeling is that both Microsoft and Sony want chip production to be better.
 
I don't know but if you look at the PS4 the gap did widen over time so it's indeed possible. Unless there's some indication that it will shrink that I'm not seeing.
You're not seeing them? I am:

[SONY]

-Sony scaling back 1P Japanese support (shutting down Japan Studio)
-Sony unfairly targeting increased censoring of Japanese games (particularly small/medium-sized games)
-Sony basically disrespecting Japanese gaming customs via switching button placement on Dualsense controller
-Increasing disgruntlement from Japanese gamers over the PS5 brand
-Increased scrutiny over certain peripheral build quality and cumbersome QoL of certain system features like cross-gen game
installs/data transfer/syncing

[MICROSOFT]

+Increased partnerships with Japanese game developers and publishers (including some notable gains with publishers
Sega and Square-Enix on select titles)
+Increased goodwill/mindshare of the brand post-Zenimax acquisition and roundtable
+Increased goodwill through BC enhancements of older titles (including increased performance and seamless data transfer of cross-
generational titles)
+Increased positive social media mindshare over the past couple of months on many platforms
+More competitive pricing for the new system hardware (not overpriced & underpowered like XBO was)
+Increased positive sentiment from gamers in general (hence extremely negative feedback to clickbaiting/console-warring PS
channel content from sites like DualShockers and WatchMojo; pre current-gen those videos would've likely been more well-
received)
+Increased marketing and service availability in emerging markets and certain established markets with GamePass & Xcloud
on mobile devices

PS4 managed to widen its gap to XBO because from 2015-2017 the Xbox division essentially gave up with cancellation after cancellation and their budget getting severely reduced, combined with Sony gradually building up momentum thanks to Bloodborne, Until Dawn, and Uncharted 4. 2017-2020 was moreso Microsoft looking to build towards 9th-gen with Gamepass, the start of the new studio acquisitions, while basically placating XBO with Forza Horizon, Gears, Cuphead and Ori. Meanwhile Sony spent that same period ramping up AAA 1P releases for PS4 and 3Ps basically scaled back prioritizing XBO in favor of PS4 and later Switch as the writing for 8th gen was on the wall.

The Microsoft (or better to say, the Xbox division) that's running things for 9th-gen seem a lot more organized and focused than at any point of the previous generation. Outside of some hiccups like the ridiculous Gold price hike attempt and Halo Infinite's poor initial showing, they have had no blunders anywhere on the scale of what XBO had leading up to its launch or afterwards with all of the 180s. Their plans seem a lot more focused and their advertising has gotten a lot better leading into the launch and post-launch as well, and they seem intent on making more inroads in areas Xbox hasn't traditionally had a major presence in.

Sony has a lot of built-in cache going into this gen but they aren't up against a docile Xbox division anymore, either. While the console sales split probably won't improve too much for Xbox (though it depends on the specific console we're talking about), the actual division's revenue and profit margins seem to keep increasing and once they're able to start rolling out the first wave of high-quality platform ecosystem exclusives, that paired with more GamePass penetration should see the revenue and profits increase even higher. Due to the flexibility of Microsoft's approach there's a real chance that while console sales may likely stay behind Sony's (though I doubt the margin will gain much in Sony's favor; they won't just be competing with Microsoft, there's Nintendo too and also increasing "competition" from PC as more of their games head to that platform), they could end up matching or even exceeding Sony's revenue and profit figures within say the next 3-4 years, if they play their cards right.

So the better question is if (or when) that happens, how does it effect Sony? Well, again, it depends on a few other factors not all of which are Microsoft-related. It's a lot to talk about in this post though; maybe some other time.
 

Elios83

Member
What is the source that Sony have been able to ramp up production?

Source is in the sales data.
NPD had PS5 ahead of PS4 in February 2021 vs February 2014.
PS5 was best selling console in EMEA even ahead of Switch in February.
In Japan supply has been increasing and just last week they sold almost 40k console.
These are much better numbers that what they did in January and in March looking at the number of restocks the momentum is continuining.
Of course to have definitive proof we need to wait until they announce their January-March fiscal results. The target is to do at least as well as PS4 and that would mean at least 7.6m consoles shipped by the end of March.
 
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You're not seeing them? I am:

[SONY]

-Sony scaling back 1P Japanese support (shutting down Japan Studio)
-Sony unfairly targeting increased censoring of Japanese games (particularly small/medium-sized games)
-Sony basically disrespecting Japanese gaming customs via switching button placement on Dualsense controller
-Increasing disgruntlement from Japanese gamers over the PS5 brand
-Increased scrutiny over certain peripheral build quality and cumbersome QoL of certain system features like cross-gen game
installs/data transfer/syncing

[MICROSOFT]

+Increased partnerships with Japanese game developers and publishers (including some notable gains with publishers
Sega and Square-Enix on select titles)
+Increased goodwill/mindshare of the brand post-Zenimax acquisition and roundtable
+Increased goodwill through BC enhancements of older titles (including increased performance and seamless data transfer of cross-
generational titles)
+Increased positive social media mindshare over the past couple of months on many platforms
+More competitive pricing for the new system hardware (not overpriced & underpowered like XBO was)
+Increased positive sentiment from gamers in general (hence extremely negative feedback to clickbaiting/console-warring PS
channel content from sites like DualShockers and WatchMojo; pre current-gen those videos would've likely been more well-
received)
+Increased marketing and service availability in emerging markets and certain established markets with GamePass & Xcloud
on mobile devices

PS4 managed to widen its gap to XBO because from 2015-2017 the Xbox division essentially gave up with cancellation after cancellation and their budget getting severely reduced, combined with Sony gradually building up momentum thanks to Bloodborne, Until Dawn, and Uncharted 4. 2017-2020 was moreso Microsoft looking to build towards 9th-gen with Gamepass, the start of the new studio acquisitions, while basically placating XBO with Forza Horizon, Gears, Cuphead and Ori. Meanwhile Sony spent that same period ramping up AAA 1P releases for PS4 and 3Ps basically scaled back prioritizing XBO in favor of PS4 and later Switch as the writing for 8th gen was on the wall.

The Microsoft (or better to say, the Xbox division) that's running things for 9th-gen seem a lot more organized and focused than at any point of the previous generation. Outside of some hiccups like the ridiculous Gold price hike attempt and Halo Infinite's poor initial showing, they have had no blunders anywhere on the scale of what XBO had leading up to its launch or afterwards with all of the 180s. Their plans seem a lot more focused and their advertising has gotten a lot better leading into the launch and post-launch as well, and they seem intent on making more inroads in areas Xbox hasn't traditionally had a major presence in.

Sony has a lot of built-in cache going into this gen but they aren't up against a docile Xbox division anymore, either. While the console sales split probably won't improve too much for Xbox (though it depends on the specific console we're talking about), the actual division's revenue and profit margins seem to keep increasing and once they're able to start rolling out the first wave of high-quality platform ecosystem exclusives, that paired with more GamePass penetration should see the revenue and profits increase even higher. Due to the flexibility of Microsoft's approach there's a real chance that while console sales may likely stay behind Sony's (though I doubt the margin will gain much in Sony's favor; they won't just be competing with Microsoft, there's Nintendo too and also increasing "competition" from PC as more of their games head to that platform), they could end up matching or even exceeding Sony's revenue and profit figures within say the next 3-4 years, if they play their cards right.

So the better question is if (or when) that happens, how does it effect Sony? Well, again, it depends on a few other factors not all of which are Microsoft-related. It's a lot to talk about in this post though; maybe some other time.

So when is Xbox supposed to start outselling the PS5? Just wondering what your predictions are.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Source is in the sales data.
NPD had PS5 ahead of PS4 in February 2021 vs February 2014.
PS5 was best selling console in EMEA even ahead of Switch in February.
In Japan supply has been increasing and just last week they sold almost 40k console.
These are much better numbers that what they did in January and in March looking at the number of restocks the momentum is continuining.
Of course to have definitive proof we need to wait until they announce their January-March fiscal results. The target is to do at least as well as PS4 and that would mean at least 7.6m consoles shipped by the end of March.
I didnt think PS5 was close to PS4 sales in Japan launch aligned. Its my fault for paying too much attention to certain posts.
So when is Xbox supposed to start outselling the PS5? Just wondering what your predictions are.
Even with all that was in that post, right now in Japan its looking like last gen already between PS and Xbox.
 
Even with all that was in that post, right now in Japan its looking like last gen already between PS and Xbox.

By gap closing I meant getting outsold by Xbox. And yes I honestly don't see that happening with the estimates that we are getting (this is VGs btw).
 
So when is Xbox supposed to start outselling the PS5? Just wondering what your predictions are.

Well, that's a bit of the wrong way of looking at it, as unit sales aren't a great metric for system profitability for a reason, in fact that's kind of been the case for generations now. You don't need to sell more units than a competitor to hit similar or higher revenue or profit margins, which was the point of why I wrote that post in the first place.

Truthfully I don't see Series outselling PS5 at any point in the generation; however I'm expect profit margins for the Xbox division to close the gap with PlayStation division this gen, absolutely. I don't know what Xbox division did in terms of revenue for 2020, but PS division did $22.7 billion. Assuming 2:1, that could put Xbox's 2020 revenue at around $11.35 billion.

Going forward I can see that ratio reducing to 1.5:1 in a worst-case, maybe by late 2022. In terms of tying it? Probably around 2024, and potential to surpass that in the years afterwards. BUT, that all requires Microsoft to continue growing GamePass (especially in certain Asian regions and other territories like Middle East, Africa, South America), have healthy X|S sales, a strong string of 1P content, keep making inroads with 3P devs/pubs to diversify the library, get more parity in day-and-date 3P releases with Sony, net more timed exclusives of major AAA 3P titles over Sony.

If they can manage those things, even as Sony ramps up with PSVR2 and their 1P content comes out, unless Sony makes several massive 3P acquisitions or one of their IP blow up in terms of major popularity as a trans-media property, while PlayStation division will see growth, it won't be to a degree where they can maintain a 2:1 revenue margin advantage. Ports of some games to PC will help (not hurt) in their growth but by and large with the business model as Sony's had it for years, we know the upper limits of PlayStation in terms of unit sales in modern times, 100 million - 120 million or so. And we know what their revenue streams are with that number plus 1P sales #s.

Yet they are still experimenting with ports to PC, and expanding into other areas like anime licensing/streaming, mobile gaming etc. I don't think Sony has the infrastructure or internal resources to expand in those areas at a rate Microsoft can, however, which are the main reasons why I see Microsoft reducing or eliminating the revenue advantage of PlayStation division thoughout the generation (not to mention ongoing instability in other fields like film releases to theaters and live music events at public venues which affect Sony much more than Microsoft).

The only way I could see Sony expanding with the infrastructure at that rate to also compete with growing rate of corporate acquisitions is:

1: Continue facilitating partnerships and non-aggression pacts with Microsoft. The two have already agreed (though I don't know if this has happened yet) to use Azure for PS game streaming, and certain Zenimax games like Deathloop/Ghostwire are still coming to PS5 while others like ESO and F'76 will continue to receive updates. Microsoft have also left a door open to, in the future, cooperate with Sony and Nintendo in some facet of GamePass on their platforms if they can work out some terms, so while Microsoft is actively competing with them, they also want to try working with them.

And the reason they want to do this, in my honest opinion, is because they know a healthy Sony & Nintendo also keeps OUT companies like Google, Amazon, and even Apple from "filling in" a weakened slot in the mainstream non-mobile gaming space. There's a delicate balance Microsoft has to walk but so far they seem to be doing a good job. It's also this reason why I think they probably WON'T pursue companies like Square-Enix for acquisition; that basically cripples Sony, unless Microsoft agreed to keep those games multi-plat (but would that require GamePass on PlayStation in some form is the question). And in the case Sony felt threatened at being critically crippled in their most vital business division (PlayStation), that could drive them to..

2: Work with Google. Google already don't seem they want to do much with Stadia, especially in 1P content, but they have no issue providing the tech and their servers to other companies. A client like Sony would be a massive get for them and the fact they already have a "link" (loosely but still) via Jade Raymond's new studio is an interesting variable that could lead to something more in the future. Google'll never get business from a company like Microsoft, but if Sony feels like they can do better elsewhere, Google would probably be a first pick in setting up some deal for using their servers and streaming tech for PS+ and PS Now.

They could also, potentially, enter some sort of stronger partnership with Google where Google could just throw a ton of cash at Sony who could then make certain major acquisitions and deals beyond their current capacity, and grow their presence in the PC and mobile spaces, plus funding media ventures based on their gaming IP. Google has no issue with wasting money away, if they can direct some of that cash to a company that'd actually know how to use it in the gaming space, then it's money much better spent.

3: Partner with Amazon or Tencent. These are much less likely, the former because they have their own gaming plans and the latter because they seem more interested in just investing in companies and leaving it at that (potential fears via CCP ties are a concern though). However, they're still options, and also flushed with a lot of cash Sony could tap into if they could work out some strong deals.

Amazon in particular would be interesting due to Twitch and what integration a company like Sony could bring to PlayStation through that, though maybe it's a bit of a stretch. If they could make it work for non-gaming content though, like their films and anime...just imagine Sony essentially leveraging Twitch as their own streaming service, they could put certain content out for free on rotation while other content could be tied to various membership tiers, effectively as VODs. So instead of the newest Jumanji or Demon Slayer season going to Disney+ or Netflix, it'd go to Sony's official Twitch channels instead.

....technically they could do a lot of this with Youtube as well but Twitch is the more popular of the two for streaming content.

Now, also something to consider is those options I just mentioned aren't exclusive to Sony; Microsoft could just as easily pursue at least some of them. For example, while they wouldn't use Google's tech or servers for Xcloud, they could strike up partnerships with Youtube for MS-related media content for streaming and VOD purposes. Same with using Twitch for such as well; the site would just act as an access point but Microsoft could still host the content on Azure servers and (I guess) running it through AWS in some way if that's a requirement on Amazon's end.

Hell, these options are even possible for Nintendo, I believe some Switch games already run via cloud including a few through Azure. It's still on a game-by-game basis though.
 
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Well, that's a bit of the wrong way of looking at it, as unit sales aren't a great metric for system profitability for a reason, in fact that's kind of been the case for generations now. You don't need to sell more units than a competitor to hit similar or higher revenue or profit margins, which was the point of why I wrote that post in the first place.

But selling more units also increases other forms of revenue such as subscriptions and software sales. That's something thats been proven again and again. It's why companies don't ignore physical sales.
 
But selling more units also increases other forms of revenue such as subscriptions and software sales. That's something thats been proven again and again. It's why companies don't ignore physical sales.
They do to an extent, but the relationship has never been nor never will be linear.

For example, by that logic GT Sport should've sold multiples more copies on PS4 than it did, but IIRC it actually sold less than the latest Forza (in fact this seems to have been the trend for the last several years between GT and Forza). Sales for other Sony 1P games would've also been higher than they were if this relationship was linear.

Same goes for subscription sales; PS4 had an over 2:1 sales advantage over XBO, but PS+ subscription numbers are definitely not near 2:1 over XBL Gold. PS Now subscription numbers are very low relative to units sold, something like 1:40 favoring PS4 units compared to PS Now subs.

The other way your statement can be interpreted is that larger install base leads to a greater volume of high-selling software across the pool of system owners. For example, say System A sells 20 million units and System B sells 80 million units. 80% of the people with System A will buy Game A, while only 20% will buy Game B. For System B, those percentages remain the same.

So on System A, you end up with Game A selling 16 million and Game B selling 4 million, but on System B Game A sells 64 million and Game B sells 16 million. This is an extreme example because we've never seen ratio splits like that for anything but the most niche games released between PS4 and XBO, but it's an example that supports your idea, theoretically.

However, since it ISN'T a realistic example, then we have to look at it from the perspective of having games that sell relatively similar ratios on both System A and System B, with gamers buying only one of the games, and that's an area where your example can hold up. However, that tends to only be the case with the most casual or mainstream gamers, who don't buy a lot of unique games. Those same types of gamers, particularly the casuals, don't spend a lot in recurring revenue for additional content on those games like DLC.

This is where unit sales start to break down and looking at the spending habits of the most active users on the platform (who tend to be hardcore and core gamers) weighs a lot more. Given there aren't a lot of such gamers compared to mainstream/casual types, we know most likely that there are way less hardcore/core gamers than those who've purchased XBOs, let alone PS4s. And despite what seems to be popular in certain spaces, a lot of hardcore/core gamers have both systems (which yes, also means a lot of people who are on forums like GAF).

Going by sales splits of most games targeting hardcore/core gamers on Xbox and PlayStation, I'd probably say the split of # of those gamers on PS4 and not XBO was probably only 1.25:1 or 1.35:1 favoring PS4 despite the over 2:1 sales ratio between PS4 and XBO as a whole (and at least the first of those ratios will very likely shrink this gen in terms of hardware sales; both will shrink (in terms of PS advantage, i.e Xbox gaining ground, not PS losing ground) over the course of 9th-gen).
 
I've seen Vgchartz in arguments and used on this board more and more over the last few years, the thing used to be banned so badly you couldn't even type in the url.

People are now giving credence to a once dying brand, like nexgenwars, but somehow stupidity has allowed it to flourish again and become a not too reliable but a worthy alternative "source" despite that not being close to true.

But I suppose it's better than that Ampere thing. Or maybe not, they may have dug out these numbers from the same place, their a-
 
You're not seeing them? I am:

[SONY]

-Sony scaling back 1P Japanese support (shutting down Japan Studio)
-Sony unfairly targeting increased censoring of Japanese games (particularly small/medium-sized games)
-Sony basically disrespecting Japanese gaming customs via switching button placement on Dualsense controller
-Increasing disgruntlement from Japanese gamers over the PS5 brand
-Increased scrutiny over certain peripheral build quality and cumbersome QoL of certain system features like cross-gen game
installs/data transfer/syncing

[MICROSOFT]

+Increased partnerships with Japanese game developers and publishers (including some notable gains with publishers
Sega and Square-Enix on select titles)
+Increased goodwill/mindshare of the brand post-Zenimax acquisition and roundtable
+Increased goodwill through BC enhancements of older titles (including increased performance and seamless data transfer of cross-
generational titles)
+Increased positive social media mindshare over the past couple of months on many platforms
+More competitive pricing for the new system hardware (not overpriced & underpowered like XBO was)
+Increased positive sentiment from gamers in general (hence extremely negative feedback to clickbaiting/console-warring PS
channel content from sites like DualShockers and WatchMojo; pre current-gen those videos would've likely been more well-
received)
+Increased marketing and service availability in emerging markets and certain established markets with GamePass & Xcloud
on mobile devices

PS4 managed to widen its gap to XBO because from 2015-2017 the Xbox division essentially gave up with cancellation after cancellation and their budget getting severely reduced, combined with Sony gradually building up momentum thanks to Bloodborne, Until Dawn, and Uncharted 4. 2017-2020 was moreso Microsoft looking to build towards 9th-gen with Gamepass, the start of the new studio acquisitions, while basically placating XBO with Forza Horizon, Gears, Cuphead and Ori. Meanwhile Sony spent that same period ramping up AAA 1P releases for PS4 and 3Ps basically scaled back prioritizing XBO in favor of PS4 and later Switch as the writing for 8th gen was on the wall.

The Microsoft (or better to say, the Xbox division) that's running things for 9th-gen seem a lot more organized and focused than at any point of the previous generation. Outside of some hiccups like the ridiculous Gold price hike attempt and Halo Infinite's poor initial showing, they have had no blunders anywhere on the scale of what XBO had leading up to its launch or afterwards with all of the 180s. Their plans seem a lot more focused and their advertising has gotten a lot better leading into the launch and post-launch as well, and they seem intent on making more inroads in areas Xbox hasn't traditionally had a major presence in.

Sony has a lot of built-in cache going into this gen but they aren't up against a docile Xbox division anymore, either. While the console sales split probably won't improve too much for Xbox (though it depends on the specific console we're talking about), the actual division's revenue and profit margins seem to keep increasing and once they're able to start rolling out the first wave of high-quality platform ecosystem exclusives, that paired with more GamePass penetration should see the revenue and profits increase even higher. Due to the flexibility of Microsoft's approach there's a real chance that while console sales may likely stay behind Sony's (though I doubt the margin will gain much in Sony's favor; they won't just be competing with Microsoft, there's Nintendo too and also increasing "competition" from PC as more of their games head to that platform), they could end up matching or even exceeding Sony's revenue and profit figures within say the next 3-4 years, if they play their cards right.

So the better question is if (or when) that happens, how does it effect Sony? Well, again, it depends on a few other factors not all of which are Microsoft-related. It's a lot to talk about in this post though; maybe some other time.
+Increased partnerships with Japanese game developers and publishers (including some notable gains with publishers
Sega and Square-Enix on select titles)

You forgot about Forspoken and FF16 being exclusive to PS5 or something?
Or Jade's next project will be a new IP for Sony? Sony buying EVO???
 
They do to an extent, but the relationship has never been nor never will be linear.

For example, by that logic GT Sport should've sold multiples more copies on PS4 than it did, but IIRC it actually sold less than the latest Forza (in fact this seems to have been the trend for the last several years between GT and Forza). Sales for other Sony 1P games would've also been higher than they were if this relationship was linear.

Same goes for subscription sales; PS4 had an over 2:1 sales advantage over XBO, but PS+ subscription numbers are definitely not near 2:1 over XBL Gold. PS Now subscription numbers are very low relative to units sold, something like 1:40 favoring PS4 units compared to PS Now subs.

The other way your statement can be interpreted is that larger install base leads to a greater volume of high-selling software across the pool of system owners. For example, say System A sells 20 million units and System B sells 80 million units. 80% of the people with System A will buy Game A, while only 20% will buy Game B. For System B, those percentages remain the same.

So on System A, you end up with Game A selling 16 million and Game B selling 4 million, but on System B Game A sells 64 million and Game B sells 16 million. This is an extreme example because we've never seen ratio splits like that for anything but the most niche games released between PS4 and XBO, but it's an example that supports your idea, theoretically.

However, since it ISN'T a realistic example, then we have to look at it from the perspective of having games that sell relatively similar ratios on both System A and System B, with gamers buying only one of the games, and that's an area where your example can hold up. However, that tends to only be the case with the most casual or mainstream gamers, who don't buy a lot of unique games. Those same types of gamers, particularly the casuals, don't spend a lot in recurring revenue for additional content on those games like DLC.

This is where unit sales start to break down and looking at the spending habits of the most active users on the platform (who tend to be hardcore and core gamers) weighs a lot more. Given there aren't a lot of such gamers compared to mainstream/casual types, we know most likely that there are way less hardcore/core gamers than those who've purchased XBOs, let alone PS4s. And despite what seems to be popular in certain spaces, a lot of hardcore/core gamers have both systems (which yes, also means a lot of people who are on forums like GAF).

Going by sales splits of most games targeting hardcore/core gamers on Xbox and PlayStation, I'd probably say the split of # of those gamers on PS4 and not XBO was probably only 1.25:1 or 1.35:1 favoring PS4 despite the over 2:1 sales ratio between PS4 and XBO as a whole (and at least the first of those ratios will very likely shrink this gen in terms of hardware sales; both will shrink (in terms of PS advantage, i.e Xbox gaining ground, not PS losing ground) over the course of 9th-gen).

But there's one thing that you didn't prove and that's a negative relationship between unit sales and revenue. To put it simply Microsoft and Sony will always want to sell more systems not less.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
But selling more units also increases other forms of revenue such as subscriptions and software sales. That's something thats been proven again and again. It's why companies don't ignore physical sales.

But there's one thing that you didn't prove and that's a negative relationship between unit sales and revenue. To put it simply Microsoft and Sony will always want to sell more systems not less.


Exactly. Because on some level, sales do matter.

Ask Blackberry, Palm and MS about the smartphone market. Blackberry was known for BB Messenger and the iconic BB phones. They stopped making phones, but Messenger survived. Once again, MS (and BB) went from having execs laughing at the iPhone, spreading FUD about Android to making apps for Android and using the OS on some devices.

Because sales do matter.
 
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