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PS5 details get a full Digital Foundry analysis

NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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That was a nice rundown. It gives good reason to purchase a more expensive model if that includes larger storage. I suspect the author is right on the money about expanded storage being tricky, both for the technical reasons he listed and Sony's early reveal of the option to install / delete parts of the games.
 
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mckmas8808

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That was a nice rundown. It gives good reason to purchase a more expensive model if that includes larger storage. I suspect the author is right on the money about expanded storage being tricky, both for the technical reasons he listed and Sony's early reveal of the option to install / delete parts of the games.
Yeah I would have never thought about that.
 
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NickFire

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Yeah I would have never thought about that.
I assumed swapping drives would be just the same as the last couple generations. Honestly, now I really hope they do have a more expensive model just for maximum storage space. I won't care as much if they confirm swaps are feasible, but if they aren't feasible it won't ruin my day because it sounds like baking them in closer to the chips gives us worthwhile benefits.
 

R600

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The closer we are to PS5 release, the more PCB rumor makes sense.


~316mm² APU
40CUs highly clocked with RT cores
8 core Zen 2 with 1/4 of cache (Flute leak)
256 bit bus (18Gbps chips, PCB leak in May specified this + matches flute benchmark).

Could fit in nicely and be very high performing yet not overly expensive chip (still more expensive then when PS4 came out, even if it is smaller per mm2).
 
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Trogdor1123

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The closer we are to PS5 release, the more PCB rumor makes sense.


~316mm² APU
40CUs highly clocked with RT cores
8 core Zen 2 with 1/4 of cache (Flute leak)
256 bit bus (18Gbps chips, PCB leak in May specified this + matches flute benchmark).

Could fit in nicely and be very high performing yet not overly expensive chip (still more expensive then when PS4 came out, even if it is smaller per mm2).
Could elaborate a touch? I'm interested but only partially understand.
 

Kingwingin

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I'm really worried about the small hard drives for these systems. Might have to go back to discs if I'll be deleting games after I beat them.
 

DoctorEkkoUK

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I am really glad both Sony and MS seem to have stayed focused on gaming for these next generation and hopefully we are going to get two beast consoles that will allow a true generational leap in console gaming. To be honest even just the improvements to CPU speed and Hard disk speed would be enough to win me over.
 

R600

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Could elaborate a touch? I'm interested but only partially understand.
Basically there where several leaks regarding, what many "in know" now consider PS5.

First one in January was Gonzalo leak 1.0 which gave us SOC (system on chip) consisting of 8 core Zen CPU clocked at 3.2Ghz and Navi 10 Lite GPU (could be trimmed down "fat Navi") clocked at 1.0Ghz.

Second one in April was Gonzalo 2.0 leak which indicated (in its code) that its further revision of same chip specs, but with GPU clocked at ~1.8Ghz.

In May 22 we got leak specifying internal specifications of PS5 dev kit PCB (motherboard) by someone who appears from SE Asia and working at manufacturing plant.

It doesnt tell us which chip is used, what clocks etc. but it gives us

1. Memory type and bus width
2. SOC size

1. Memory type was specified as GDDR6 on 256 bit bus with 18Gbps Samsung chips (still not in full production then nor now). That would give PS5 teorethical BW of 572GB/s (but I think it would, as always, be slightly downclocked).

2. SOC size of 316mm² would mean, since we know it is based on Navi + RT + Zen2 rough estimate of amount of CUs we can expect, therefore TFLOP number.

316mm² would not be enough to fit in full Navi (40CUs) + RT and Zen2. BUT, here comes the last leak.

Flute - Flute benchmark, that was deleted from base few hours after it leaked, shows same GPU ID as Gonzalo (console based) and Zen2 chip clocked at 3.2Ghz but with 3/4 of cache cut out. Since most of Zen2 size is duo to its cache, removing 75% yields enough to easily fit 40CUs and RT into 316mm².

This is why I think everything fits very well together.
 

SKY EYES

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I'm really worried about the small hard drives for these systems. Might have to go back to discs if I'll be deleting games after I beat them.
still have to install to the hard drive even if you use disc. so will make no different unfortunately.
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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Feb 2, 2018
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still have to install to the hard drive even if you use disc. so will make no different unfortunately.
He said hed delete games after beating them. Makes sense, faster install time cause no downloading.
 

Darius87

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Jul 16, 2018
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This console will be something special. The ICE team are going to make some beautiful games with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Sony Bend, Kojima Productions,Santa Monica, Guerrilla Games and Polyphony Digital
Naughty Dog are Ice team.

The closer we are to PS5 release, the more PCB rumor makes sense.


~316mm² APU
40CUs highly clocked with RT cores
8 core Zen 2 with 1/4 of cache (Flute leak)
256 bit bus (18Gbps chips, PCB leak in May specified this + matches flute benchmark).

Could fit in nicely and be very high performing yet not overly expensive chip (still more expensive then when PS4 came out, even if it is smaller per mm2).
that's most likely, it would make it around 9.2 Tflops which a bit disapointing i've expected around 11 Tflops
Now, to jump on day one or wait 3 years for the pro variant....
what if there won't be pro version? i don't think sony will chase 8K in games this time.
But did they get a free glass-encased CPU? These are the important questions!
i'm sure they will for scarlett, that's how you lose your dignity.
 

Croatoan

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Jun 24, 2014
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Naughty Dog are Ice team.


that's most likely, it would make it around 9.2 Tflops which a bit disapointing i've expected around 11 Tflops

what if there won't be pro version? i don't think sony will chase 8K in games this time.

i'm sure they will for scarlett, that's how you lose your dignity.
I believe people will be disappointed in the Tflop number. So many hyped up for 11-13+ TFlops. You are going to get 8-10 Tfops max.

At least once that is known this "PS5 will do 4k 60fps" nonsense will finally die for good.

I mean the 2080 super is 11 Tflops and it costs over $700. Its laughable that people think you will get that performance in a $500 box.

People need to pray for a 5700 Xt equivalent (9.7 Tflops) if you want any hope of 4k 60. The issue is that card is $400. Sony's special gpu will be discounted but I am not sure how much of a console cost comes from gpu. 70%? 50%? 25%?. How are you going to get that amount of power for ~$500.

My take? You wont. Better start readying yourself and stop hyping up high numbers.


Look at that list scroll down to an affordable AMD gpu and then that is close to what you will be getting in the PS5. I think a 2060 super equivalent is what the PS5 and XBNext will have in it.
 
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FrostyJ93

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I believe people will be disappointed in the Tflop number. So many hyped up for 11-13+. You are going to get 9-10 tflops max.

At least once that is known this "PS5 will do 4k 60fps" nonsense will finally die for good.

I mean the 2080 super is 11 Tflops and it costs over $700. Its laughable that people think you will get that performance in a $500 box. Unless of coarse you are talking about AMDs boosted tflop number which yes its possible to get 13 tflops and perform worse than the 2080 super.
I tried to warn you all.
 

Croatoan

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Jun 24, 2014
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I've bookmarked plenty of chronic lowballers' posts. Hopefully you'll still be here next year to relish that lovely raven...
So you think you are getting 11ish tflops to match a 2080 Super? Ohh, I'll take that bet.
 
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Negotiator

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So you think you are getting 19ish tflops to match a 2080? Ohh, I'll take that bet.

Remember AMD Tflops are always higher but the cards perform worse. Thus Sony's custom setup will also have boosted Tflops and perform worse than an Nvidia PC.
Oh, you're one of those clueless people that still think GCN flops "suck"? Dude, that's so 2015!

Got some news for big PCMR bois like yourself:


Educate yourself first and you can thank me later. :)
 
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Croatoan

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Oh, you're one of those clueless people that still think GCN flops "suck"? Dude, that's so 2015!

Got some news for big PCMR bois like yourself:


Educate yourself first and you can thank me later. :)
Uhh, the proof is right there on this ENGLISH page.


edited because I used the wrong number...my bad.
 
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Kingwingin

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still have to install to the hard drive even if you use disc. so will make no different unfortunately.
but if I only have 500gb to work with I'd rather have the ability to instal quickly from the disc then wait for a download
 
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Negotiator

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Uhh

You seem really ignorant, pal.

Explain your statement:

You would need 19+ tflops just to compete with a 2080 I think.
RDNA1/Turing flops are already 1:1 in terms of IPC/efficiency. Look it up, I've posted a link already.
 

Croatoan

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OK, you truly are a clueless PCMR warrior as I suspected.

Welcome to my ignore list. Have fun with embarrassing yourself.
LOL I made a mistake the 5700 XT is only 9.7tflops. I glanced at the half performance (FP16) number and ignored the other (19 tflops). Why I did that? I don't know, Thats my bad and I will admit that.

Regardless I hope you still ignore me considering you think I am a PCMR warrior. Newsflash asshole I play 70% PS4 30% PC, so you can GTFO with that kind of bs.
 
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deriks

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Dec 21, 2013
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This console will be something special. The ICE team are going to make some beautiful games with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Sony Bend, Kojima Productions,Santa Monica, Guerrilla Games and Polyphony Digital
ND will be Last of Us 2 remaster
Insomniac will be Spiderman remaster
Sucker Punch is Ghost of Tsushima remaster
Bend is Days Gone remaster
Santa Monica is God of War remaster
Polyphony is GT remaster

That will be the launch line up of PS5. Not bad, but you know, it's mostly yesterday's food
 

Darius87

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I believe people will be disappointed in the Tflop number. So many hyped up for 11-13+ "Nvidia" TFlops. You are going to get 9-10 "Nvidia" TFlops max.
It's not certainly yet but most likely good think is that RT will free up a lot of calculations for CU's.

At least once that is known this "PS5 will do 4k 60fps" nonsense will finally die for good.
that's choice of devs not the power of hardware i think games like GT, fighting games will be 4K 60 FPS easily even more genres could achieve that with checkerboard rendering if HW supports.

I mean the 2080 super is 11 Tflops and it costs over $700. Its laughable that people think you will get that performance in a $500 box. Unless of coarse you are talking about AMDs boosted tflop number but worse performing cards. In that case yes its possible to get 13 tflops but you will lose to a 2080 or 2070. You would need 19 tflops just to compete with a 2080 I think.
this is flawed argument in many ways:
1)nvidia's retail prices has nothing to do with what AMD provides to sony.
2) PS5 is RDNA not GCN arch which is really close to NVidia Turing arch.
3) you can't compare pc cards to custom console APU's it doesn't make sense.

People need to pray from a 5700 equivalent if you want any hope of 4k 60. The issue is that card is almost $400. Sony would get something special like that at a discount but I am not sure how much of a console is gpu. 70%? 50%? 25%?. How are you going to get that amount of power for ~$500.
as i mention retail prices doesn't apply to sony ps5 APU cost estimates at around 120$ if not less most expenssive part is RAM.
Look at that list scroll down to an affordable AMD gpu and then that is close to what you will be getting in the PS5. I think a 2060 super equivalent is what the PS5 and XBNext will have in it.
PS5 will run around in circles in performance compared to 2060 super more likely it will match or exceed 2080 super in performance.
 

Croatoan

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It's not certainly yet but most likely good think is that RT will free up a lot of calculations for CU's.


that's choice of devs not the power of hardware i think games like GT, fighting games will be 4K 60 FPS easily even more genres could achieve that with checkerboard rendering if HW supports.


this is flawed argument in many ways:
1)nvidia's retail prices has nothing to do with what AMD provides to sony.
There isn't an AMD card that can compete with the 2080 Super. The Best card is a (9.7 tflop 5700 XT) at $400 so that is all we got for comparison. I realize it isn't a direct comparison.
2) PS5 is RDNA not GCN arch which is really close to NVidia Turing arch.
I realize my mistake here.
3) you can't compare pc cards to custom console APU's it doesn't make sense.
Price per power isn't THAT different.


as i mention retail prices doesn't apply to sony ps5 APU cost estimates at around 120$ if not less most expenssive part is RAM.

PS5 will run around in circles in performance compared to 2060 super more likely it will match or exceed 2080 super in performance.

Wait are you trying to say a $120 APU will have the same performance as a $700 GPU? I mean even when you remove the Nvidia tax, retail markup, and give Sony a discount I just don't see how that is possible. If you said $250 or $300 maybe.

Now, If you were talking about the 5700 XT I think you would be close but not a 2080 Super. I still think the 2060, or maybe a 5700 is possible...but that is my personal guess. I was right about the PS4 being weak, I feel I will be right about the PS5.
Remarks in bold.
 
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Racer43

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Jun 14, 2018
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The closer we are to PS5 release, the more PCB rumor makes sense.


~316mm² APU
40CUs highly clocked with RT cores
8 core Zen 2 with 1/4 of cache (Flute leak)
256 bit bus (18Gbps chips, PCB leak in May specified this + matches flute benchmark).

Could fit in nicely and be very high performing yet not overly expensive chip (still more expensive then when PS4 came out, even if it is smaller per mm2).
How do you fit 8 core Zen 2 + 5700 + RT cores + Neural cores into that??

Not to mention it would be 70mm2 smaller than estimated scarlett SOC.
 

John117

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Apr 6, 2019
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I can't wait to see the quality of RTX technology in the PS5. In this gen the CPU jaguar is the true bootleneck, in the next gen the CPU will be very very important for to see BIG game and IA more realistic.
 

Croatoan

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I can't wait to see the quality of RTX technology in the PS5. In this gen the CPU jaguar is the true bootleneck, in the next gen the CPU will be very very important for to see BIG game and IA more realistic.
RTX wont be used in PS5 which is a good thing. This is an Nvidia marketing scheme and a terrible version of ray tracing.

RT (Ray tracing) will be used in PS5 which is a great thing. From what I understand there will be dedicated hardware for ray tracing!