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Opinion PS5 focus is high performance, not high power. Are people underestimating the value of the approach?

thelastword

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Everboydy seems to assume that the brightest minds in the world world made the PS5 while some cleaning women played Tetris with a box of hardware to make the Series X.
Monkeys in a garage threw it together real quick after they heard about Sony. It’s mostly made of Banana peels and feces.
Nobody is saying anything negative about XBOX or XBOX engineers......People are simply praising the PS5 design and are arguing it's potential in realtime vs the traditional "lots of TF" without much in custom engineering and mitigating bottlenecks..

What do you prefer in a race, lots of BP on a big wheel truck or slightly less BP on a car with better downforce, being lighter, faster gear ratios, better cornering speeds etc....You get the point, for a long time since Gamecube, PS2 and OG XBOX which were all different enough, we are going to have different designs in the consoles.....That's a good thing, I wager there will be more arguments when the consoles drop, there will be advantages on both sides, but it's looking like PS5 will have more....

There's no reason to shut down persons excited about PS5's custom hardware and the unique design Cerny has wrought here......If you are excited for Series X, you are also welcome to make threads about it praising it's hardware and identifying ways you think it will make games shine.....No need to quell the joy of persons more excited for PS5....
 

thelastword

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This is all you need to know about the guy.
Wow systemwars is still alive and well? I remember gamespot had the most active forum back then, system wars was in full play, they even had a system....

Lemmings = XBOX fans
Cows = PS fans
Sheep = Nintendo fans
Hermits = PC fans

Do I have it right? Had lots of laughs on Gamespot back in the day.....I didn't even know someone was trying to relieve it with systemwars.net....

So Dynamite Cop is a lemming huh! :unsure:
 

Samsomite

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Oct 24, 2018
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Wow systemwars is still alive and well? I remember gamespot had the most active forum back then, system wars was in full play, they even had a system....

Lemmings = XBOX fans
Cows = PS fans
Sheep = Nintendo fans
Hermits = PC fans

Do I have it right? Had lots of laughs on Gamespot back in the day.....I didn't even know someone was trying to relieve it with systemwars.net....

So Dynamite Cop is a lemming huh! :unsure:
That's a long post for what is essentially calling people names.
 
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TGO

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This SSD won't change the GPU, the CPU or the RAM.

You guys are becoming intolerably annoying.

There's probably more custom design in that system than Sony's.
At least they are cheery about it.
They seem happy despite the power difference.
But I can see how that can be annoying🤔
That compared to the bitter insecure posts made by others and yourself, which is confusing
But I guess that just the way you guys will be
 
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Vroadstar

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Nov 19, 2013
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Performance is power. Speed is power.

No one can slice it in a way I fins believable that the PS5 is going to outperform the XsX. I’ll gladly admit I was wrong if that’s the case.

DF analyses are gonna be epic
Both will have advantages and disadvantages, with X specs I don't think any sane person will think PS5 will outperform it in 3rd party games. Thing is 3rd party
games will still need to built with the lowest common denominator in mind.

Imagine DF analysis where MS comes in 2nd despite their specs, GAF will break and I can see the reasoning "lazy devs" ad hominem

The only games that will take real advantage of specs of both will be 1st party devs and I have to go with Sony to push it more compared to MS
simply based on what we've already seen from Sony devs time and time again. But I'm sure we will get good looking games on MS 1st party as well.
 

ethomaz

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What games?

How hard is it to show a video of GoW or HZD taking advantage of the PS5 hardware?
I’m pretty sure PS5 will launch games...

GoW and HZD can’t take advantage of PS5.
It is same of all games developed to PC right now.

You need to build the games from the ground, adapt/change the engines, etc and that takes time.
 
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thelastword

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12TF, VRS, DXR, Mesh Shading, Sampler Feedback, VRR, 120Hz - yup, MS is not focusing on high performance at all.
No one said MS is not focusing on high performance.....Some people are just saying Sony has developed a more efficient and less "bottlenecky way" of doing just that......Smarter engineering vs Bruteforce engineering.....
 

Azurro

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Performance is power. Speed is power.

No one can slice it in a way I fins believable that the PS5 is going to outperform the XsX. I’ll gladly admit I was wrong if that’s the case.

DF analyses are gonna be epic
Let's be clear, the Series X is a better console and games will most likely perform better on it.

What is interesting though is that it seems the PS5 will be way closer than people expect, given all the technical explanations I've read.
 
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cryogenic7

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No i don't think they are, most of us on here know its going to be absolutely fine, and hardly any different to the XSX when it comes to the comparisons, most time resolution. It's just peoples ego's that don't like the fact that Sony got beat by XBOX with the power.
They'll both be a great.
It's mind blowing. It's also scary and sad that someone's ego could be effected AT ALL by the power of a video game console.
 

Humdinger

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I don't really see these threads as "damage control" or "being butthurt" etc, as is often claimed. I see them as attempts to better understand the potential strengths in the PS5, which can be more difficult to appreciate, since they require more subtlety than just comparing two numbers.

I think of them as discussions of an upcoming piece of hardware, which a lot of people are excited about. It's the claims of "butthurt" and "damage control" that make the threads deteriorate. The actual discussion is important.
 
Jan 11, 2019
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Wow systemwars is still alive and well? I remember gamespot had the most active forum back then, system wars was in full play, they even had a system....

Lemmings = XBOX fans
Cows = PS fans
Sheep = Nintendo fans
Hermits = PC fans

Do I have it right? Had lots of laughs on Gamespot back in the day.....I didn't even know someone was trying to relieve it with systemwars.net....

So Dynamite Cop is a lemming huh! :unsure:
It's genuinely pathetic to see him with over 20,000+ posts in a span of 2.5 years over there.
 
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Jan 11, 2019
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I don't really see these threads as "damage control" or "being butthurt" etc, as is often claimed. I see them as attempts to better understand the potential strengths in the PS5, which can be more difficult to appreciate, since they require more subtlety than just comparing two numbers.

I think of them as discussions of an upcoming piece of hardware, which a lot of people are excited about. It's the claims of "butthurt" and "damage control" that make the threads deteriorate. The actual discussion is important.
THANK YOU.
 
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thelastword

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It's genuinely pathetic to see him with over 20,000+ posts in a span of 2.5 years over there.
He's a high roller.....Trying to set the forum world right, several forums at a time....Must be a might busy worker bee......Yet I wonder how Heinrich does it, to spam 8 alts.....I don't even have 10000 posts on GAF and I have been here for a long time....
 

ZywyPL

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No one said MS is not focusing on high performance.....Some people are just saying Sony has developed a more efficient and less "bottlenecky way" of doing just that......Smarter engineering vs Bruteforce engineering.....
Which apparently is the exact opposite, as XBX other than 12TF of raw computing power has tons of additional features to speed up calculations, offload work from the CUs, basically make those 12TF as efficient as possible. PS5 has few of those features as well of course, but not as many nevertheless, so PS5 is tho one that actually mostly relies on the raw computing power a.k.a. the brute force. Which it has 10.3TF of it. Unless there's some secret sauce Cerny purposely didn't mention at the reveal.
 

Renozokii

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Nov 4, 2019
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Sure it does but they’ve not stated anything that points to what I quoted in the OP.
They aren't desperately trying to make an under-powered console sound more powerful than it is. They don't need to dive into specifics that maybe 1% of people buying their console will even understand. Come next gen, they will have the most powerful console on the market.
 

Renozokii

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What's the use of a bigger dick when you only stick it to the same old fart (games) you been using it with again and again every gen.
They literally bought how many developers just a few years ago? How many of those developers now have multiple teams for different games? If HALF the developers they bought don't make that gets received well, they will still be on par with Sony for exclusives worth owning.
 
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Renozokii

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It's so wrong though. It's damage control because until Sony SHOWS something, SHOWS the difference all this custom hardware and software makes, it's just them trying to make up for the fact that they have the weaker console. We are, at the core of it all, comparing two computers made for gaming. We have long standing units of measure for power and technical ability. In nearly every way, those measurements point towards the Series X being substantially more powerful than the PS5. If Sony wants to make the claim that Corny has come up with some genius ideas to make the console magically not significantly less powerful, they need to put up numbers, demos, and examples themselves. If your architect has come up with a console that has the ability to outperform the rival console with weaker hardware, show it. And frankly. brute force DOES work in computers. With a powerful enough PC, even a poorly optimized game can still be forced to run well. So even if Sony has come up with cool workarounds and new ideas, are those, in action, going to make up for the fairly sizable difference in pure hardware? I kind of doubt it. And to top it all off, how can you even pretend to be sure that some, or even most of these concepts aren't present in the series x in one way or another? It's not like both consoles are out there in consumers hands and we know every inch of both consoles and their software. We haven't really even seen games running on either consoles just yet.

Finally, with all this apparent magic tech they have supposedly come up with, why not match the series x in hardware, and then vastly outperform when it comes to actual games because of said magic? Sony is already overclocking the thing to get it into the double digit area. That's not something a confident console maker would do.
 
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Gamerguy84

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Games are going to look amazing (on both consoles)Cant wait for the PS5.

I like how Sony engineers tackled it. Efficiency and removing bottlenecks, and of course SSD.

Third party games will have to be designed with the weakest link in mind on both consoles. First party are where they will both make statements.
 

bitbydeath

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And yet the entire quote you posted in the OP is all about bottlenecks in the SSD section of the console.
No it isn’t. It’s about how to enhance performance. SSD was one way as stated but not the only method used. The custom hardware to fix bottlenecks such as the CPU example.
 

twerkitout

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Sep 29, 2013
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It's so wrong though. It's damage control because until Sony SHOWS something, SHOWS the difference all this custom hardware and software makes, it's just them trying to make up for the fact that they have the weaker console. We are, at the core of it all, comparing two computers made for gaming. We have long standing units of measure for power and technical ability. In nearly every way, those measurements point towards the Series X being substantially more powerful than the PS5. If Sony wants to make the claim that Corny has come up with some genius ideas to make the console magically not significantly less powerful, they need to put up numbers, demos, and examples themselves. If your architect has come up with a console that has the ability to outperform the rival console with weaker hardware, show it. And frankly. brute force DOES work in computers. With a powerful enough PC, even a poorly optimized game can still be forced to run well. So even if Sony has come up with cool workarounds and new ideas, are those, in action, going to make up for the fairly sizable difference in pure hardware? I kind of doubt it. And to top it all off, how can you even pretend to be sure that some, or even most of these concepts aren't present in the series x in one way or another? It's not like both consoles are out there in consumers hands and we know every inch of both consoles and their software. We haven't really even seen games running on either consoles just yet.

Finally, with all this apparent magic tech they have supposedly come up with, why not match the series x in hardware, and then vastly outperform when it comes to actual games because of said magic? Sony is already overclocking the thing to get it into the double digit area. That's not something a confident console maker would do.
You say 'substantially more powerful' but most tech experts have clearly said the differences will likely be a slightly higher frame-rate and higher resolution. You are trying to make a mole-hill into a mountain.

If Sony wanted to, they could have made the exact same console as MS for the exact same price. Why not discuss why each company made the decisions they did, rather than constantly shouting 'damage control', 'butt-hurt', etc.

In the end, Sony is trying to make the best console for a specific price (MS did as well) and they both had to make some trade-offs. The power difference only becomes interesting if they are same price and I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that they aren't.

In the end, the system with the best games always wins.
 

TBiddy

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No it isn’t. It’s about how to enhance performance. SSD was one way as stated but not the only method used. The custom hardware to fix bottlenecks such as the CPU example.
The quote is literally about the SSD and how to remove bottlenecks to prevent stutter by using custom built controllers in the console.
 

bitbydeath

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The quote is literally about the SSD and how to remove bottlenecks to prevent stutter by using custom built controllers in the console.
Wrong.

For PlayStation 5 our goal was not just that the SSD itself be a hundred times faster. It was that game loads and streaming would be a hundred times faster
 

TBiddy

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You do realize that both the loading and the streaming refers to the SSD... right? It won't matter if your SSD can deliver 10 GB/s, if the decompressor can't keep up, or the controller is not capable of handling such speeds. Thus, the quote goes on to speak about custom controllers designed specifically to assist the SSD unload it's data.
 
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bitbydeath

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You do realize that both the loading and the streaming refers to the SSD... right? It won't matter if your SSD can deliver 10 GB/s, if the decompressor can't keep up, or the controller is not capable of handling such speeds. Thus, the quote goes on to speak about custom controllers designed specifically to assist the SSD unload it's data.
Streaming refers to what displays on screen which is a task performed by the GPU.

EDIT: Perhaps this quote will make it clearer for you.

the reality though is that the SSD is just one piece of the puzzle there's a lot of places where bottlenecks can occur in between the SSD and the game code that uses the data
 
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TBiddy

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Streaming refers to what displays on screen which is performed by the GPU.
So you're saying that the GPU is a hundred times faster than the PS4? Or what?

For PlayStation 5 our goal was not just that the SSD itself be a hundred times faster. It was that game loads and streaming would be a hundred times faster

The quote is about the SSD and the bottlenecks around it.
 
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bitbydeath

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So you're saying that the GPU is a hundred times faster than the PS4? Or what?

For PlayStation 5 our goal was not just that the SSD itself be a hundred times faster. It was that game loads and streaming would be a hundred times faster

The quote is about the SSD and the bottlenecks around it.
Read my edit for another quote that states SSD was only one part that solved the issues to get it 100x faster.
 
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You obviously haven’t been in an Xbox thread while PS was winning,
This here kind of post perfectly sums up the issue on forums.
'But but but PS fans'

Who gives a fuck?

Because one set of morons choose to devalue conversation doesnt mean the other set has to do the same. This is so fucking childish. Like kindergarted playground stuff.

There are asshole PS fans too. I say this as a long standing PS fan.

This shit is the reason why industry professionals avoid forums and social media. They get abuse from both sides of the fence.
It seems the forums get more toxic every passing day.

PS5 is weaker. We get it. Xbox is better. We get it. Hug, kiss and make peace with it and let's discuss the systems features without turning every thread into a fucking pissing match.
 

TBiddy

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Read my edit for another quote that states SSD was only one part that solved the issues to get it 100x faster.
That's a nice quote, but it wasn't mentioned anywhere in this thread. At all.

The quote in the OP is still 100% about the SSD, and you've not yet explained how you deduced, that this part was about the GPU and not the SSD:

streaming would be a hundred times faster
 
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bitbydeath

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That's a nice quote, but it wasn't mentioned anywhere in this thread. At all.

The quote in the OP is still 100% about the SSD, and you've not yet explained how you deduced, that this part was about the GPU and not the SSD:

streaming would be a hundred times faster
It isn't, you just aren't reading it correctly.
I used another quote to further backup what it means.

It was deduced because Mark Cerny said as much.
The SSD is only part of the solution.

Here read this again.

For PlayStation 5 our goal was not just that the SSD itself be a hundred times faster. It was that game loads and streaming would be a hundred times faster
Meaning advanced game loads and streaming solutions are not performed by the SSD.
 
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