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PS5 hardware based Ray-Tracing vs Xbox Series X hardware accelerated Ray Tracing: Is there a difference in the tech or just the wording?

Jan 29, 2019
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Yeah but rtx is still heavy on the system, it doesn't become more lighter in a closed hardware, maybe more manageable but not less heavy.
The problem is that your assumptions are based on the RTX implementation, PowerVR had a mis range Android phone from 2016 run hardware based ray tracing at a decent pace... So my guess is that a modern console with access to more power, transistors, memory could do this pretty well (obviously a PC version with more of everything would yeald better results). For this specific thing Nvidia's solution seems pretty much useless in its current state (but this is the only one in the market so far... So they are the best at raytracing).

And yes, that battlefield rtx deno was horrible in many ways, in the other rtx enabled games the performance coat was just too high.
(I never knew every type of flooring could be polished to reflect like a mirror),
Clean up your room!
Looks like it'll be another generation where gamers ask devs where's all the awesome physics, AI and animation improvements.
Believe it or not animation got much better this gen, just look at Sony's games compared to last gen (they were already well animated), compared Far Cry 3 to Far Cry 4... etc. they have more memory to store animation data! So they use it...

However, I admit that the level of interaction for inanimate objects has been a big disappointment so far :-/
 
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Journey

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I guess you feel the opposite.....At least I gave reasons why I think RT was stronger there......Seeing as, it's the only upcoming console that has shown or demoed games with RT......I'm thinking you're thinking the opposite though, with all that evidence showing Series X is 12TF vs a 9TF PS4....Hardware RT vs whatever Sony is doing right?


Or it could be from this as well.




 

Skyfox

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RT will be wayyy worse than stereoscopic 3D for devs. And it wont be quick and cheap implementation like bloom or lens flares were in the 90s. In my opinion RT is a waste of time for consoles right now.

Let PC game devs figure out tool upgrades and optimise it. None of the engines or workflows at console game devs support it (they are currently setup to use cheaper lighting effect systems).

At best, some small indies can build tech demos from the ground up but this should be a ps6/series x2 feature.
 
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o'dium

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Nah, RT, in my uses (and I’ve used it extensively now) is awesome. The problem is that general public now just see ray tracing as “reflections” but you can do so much more. But even then, when you dumb it down to a single use, you can create some utterly stunning designs.

Imagine let’s say Spiderman, but with decent reflections on every building, rather than what they went with (which was already a nice implementation).

But I’ve been using it for a good while now in a lot of different ways, and, when done right, can really make things look much more alive. But as I said, be ready at the start of the generation for every damn surface reflecting everything even if it makes no sense.
 
Dec 10, 2019
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Ok. Klee is gone.

Now You guys have only Osiris and me. Who knows Tommy FIsher might have a mighty return with a semi oficcial specs reveal.

Please, honor your insiders.
 

V4skunk

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Fuck this shit!!!

They are literally the same thing. Stop this nonsense already, god lord dont people have brains anymore

3d accelerator vs. Graphics hardware that draws 3d == gpu. Same thing, two different wordings
Unless one method uses CU's of the gpu while the other uses specific hardware for RT.
 

onQ123

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RT will be wayyy worse than stereoscopic 3D for devs. And it wont be quick and cheap implementation like bloom or lens flares were in the 90s. In my opinion RT is a waste of time for consoles right now.

Let PC game devs figure out tool upgrades and optimise it. None of the engines or workflows at console game devs support it (they are currently setup to use cheaper lighting effect systems).

At best, some small indies can build tech demos from the ground up but this should be a ps6/series x2 feature.

SMH ray tracing is easier for devs than faking it.
 
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thelastword

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Going to need the receipts on that one.
You might have to search deep inside an anal cavity for that one......

Cerny: PS5 will have RT
Concerned Fans of X : Is it hardware or software based? So it is software based because he never said hardware based...... see!.....
Cerny: (In an Interview), it's hardware based, happy to clarify...cheerios..
Concerned Fans of X : Gosh Darnnit, Cerny can you be clear already? So he said hardware based, so it's just CU accelerated instead of having actual RT cores?
Jim Ryan: It's Hardware based guys (with the rumormill hot and heavy about a more exotically designed RT hardware component in PS5)…..
Concerned Fans of X: I hate Jim Ryan, he said something I didn't like in the past.... 🤔

What?
 

Journey

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Nobody have the series X devkits 🤷🏻‍♂️

Correct, this was before sources pointed out that Xbox dev kits on the hand of developers weren't final, then shortly after it was confirmed that Xbox Series X was considerably more powerful than what devs had on hand.

Having said that, imagine what the comparison against final kits will look like. Devs were already saying RT had an edge on Xbox even with the old kits :pie_thinking:
 
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GymWolf

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Nah, RT, in my uses (and I’ve used it extensively now) is awesome. The problem is that general public now just see ray tracing as “reflections” but you can do so much more. But even then, when you dumb it down to a single use, you can create some utterly stunning designs.

Imagine let’s say Spiderman, but with decent reflections on every building, rather than what they went with (which was already a nice implementation).

But I’ve been using it for a good while now in a lot of different ways, and, when done right, can really make things look much more alive. But as I said, be ready at the start of the generation for every damn surface reflecting everything even if it makes no sense.
Nice reflections on buildings in a fast paced game where you are always on the move still sounds like something secondary or tertiary for many people tbh.

With a given choice i think 90% of people would still prefer better textures or 60 frame or more shit on screen at the same time instead of reflections...

Same story with nicer rtx shadows, there is a reason why people on pc always scale down shadows and illumination instead of textures or framerate when their pc is not enough for an heavy game...
 
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thelastword

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Well we heard Sony's machine paints rays better than the other, so........
Going to need the receipts on that one.
PD

"The team is reportedly working on a new engine for the sequel that will make use of its own real-time ray-tracing engine. For those that unfamiliar with ray-tracing, it’s technology that’s been utilized with a number of high-end games on PC, but not seen that much on the console front, if at all."

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/12/30/gran-turismo-7-real-time-ray-tracing-playstation-5/

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/64280/gran-turismo-teased-real-time-ray-tracing-ps5/index.html

https://www.teamvvv.com/news/gran-turismo-dev-working-on-their-own-real-time-ray-tracing-tech/



Some nice bonus info about lighting/RT in GT.....The nurb for example uses lots of data because of all the lighting passes needed for all the rendered trees on that track.....Read up...

https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-reveals-gt-sports-iris-ray-tracing-system-at-cedec-2018/
 

onQ123

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o'dium

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TLW: They also ran the game at 120fps, at 8k. Do the math you plonker. It wasn't running in real time on a PS5, it wasn't even running in real time. It was a video that was compiled using multiple hardware configurations working together.
 
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nikolino840

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I know Xbox One has haptic feedback but I'm not sure if it will be the same as PS5 triggers the patent show where it can change from being easy to move into hard to move & stuff like that.

Microsoft also has a patent for adaptive triggers


I don't know,i Just saw the tweet and posted It,i have even discovered now that Xbox have also the 3d audio for headphone(Windows Sonic )
 
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Stuart360

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TLW: They also ran the game at 120fps, at 8k. Do the math you plonker. It wasn't running in real time on a PS5, it wasn't even running in real time. It was a video that was compiled using multiple hardware configurations working together.
I'm pretty sure TLW made an actual thread when that vid was released saying something like 'GTS 120fps/8k, Running on PS5 devkit?' lol.
 

o'dium

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I know Xbox One has haptic feedback but I'm not sure if it will be the same as PS5 triggers the patent show where it can change from being easy to move into hard to move & stuff like that.

Microsoft also has a patent for adaptive triggers


This one snuck past me, I didn’t know they were adding more to the controller. The biggest issue I have with the next gen Xbox is the controller has seen little to no improvement, so this pleases me. The dpad looks... Worrying, at least to me. But nice to see them using feedback tech.
 

01011001

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that pic is accurate the only issue is the haptic trigger stuff... we don't know if they actually can change in tension as people suggest... and we don't know how that will work exactly.

we do know that the Xbox One has "haptic" triggers, aka. rumble inside the triggers to give feedback... and that can actually feel like there is resistance on them in some games... in Watch Dogs 1 for example, if you shoot with a shotgun the right trigger vibrates with such a force that you literally feel like it is pushing back on your finger.

I am really curious how Sony's "haptic triggers" will work. if there is actually something inside that can dynamically change the tension and possible even push back on your finger, I can see that part of the controller being a pretty big issue when it comes to longevity. those motors that would be in such a trigger mechanism would be super small, and if you press too hard against it, over time, I can see these things being more fragile than the Joycon sticks!
 

onQ123

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This one snuck past me, I didn’t know they were adding more to the controller. The biggest issue I have with the next gen Xbox is the controller has seen little to no improvement, so this pleases me. The dpad looks... Worrying, at least to me. But nice to see them using feedback tech.
Not sure if there has been any word on them using the adaptive triggers on Xbox SX but I would hope so because it would mean devs would put more effort into it.


I can picture this making shooters a lot more immersive
 

thelastword

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I'm pretty sure TLW made an actual thread when that vid was released saying something like 'GTS 120fps/8k, Running on PS5 devkit?' lol.
Then by all means link the thread where I said that? It shouldn't be hard to do so now innit, unless it's more tales......


Also, GTS running at 8K 120fps was not on PS5, it most probably was on a high end PC at that time, but all the work that PD was doing there was obviously towards technology they were working on for the next GT on PS5...…..I'm pretty sure all that technology has now transferred over to PS5 now in whatever form, maybe 4K 60fps, maybe 8K CB 60fps.....I'm sure what they showed before, that have improved on it quite a bit too...….There;s no need for GTS to be 8k 120fps for consoles, they can use the processing power to improve visuals and RT fidelity at 4K 60fps.....(I expect an 8k CB 60fps option though)…..It's PD afterall...
 

Stuart360

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Then by all means link the thread where I said that? It shouldn't be hard to do so now innit, unless it's more tales......


Also, GTS running at 8K 120fps was not on PS5, it most probably was on a high end PC at that time, but all the work that PD was doing there was obviously towards technology they were working on for the next GT on PS5...…..I'm pretty sure all that technology has now transferred over to PS5 now in whatever form, maybe 4K 60fps, maybe 8K CB 60fps.....I'm sure what they showed before, that have improved on it quite a bit too...….There;s no need for GTS to be 8k 120fps for consoles, they can use the processing power to improve visuals and RT fidelity at 4K 60fps.....(I expect an 8k CB 60fps option though)…..It's PD afterall...
If it wasnt you, then i take it back. Someone did though, and i know you were speculating about it being PS5 devkit.
 

vpance

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that pic is accurate the only issue is the haptic trigger stuff... we don't know if they actually can change in tension as people suggest... and we don't know how that will work exactly.

we do know that the Xbox One has "haptic" triggers, aka. rumble inside the triggers to give feedback... and that can actually feel like there is resistance on them in some games... in Watch Dogs 1 for example, if you shoot with a shotgun the right trigger vibrates with such a force that you literally feel like it is pushing back on your finger.

I am really curious how Sony's "haptic triggers" will work. if there is actually something inside that can dynamically change the tension and possible even push back on your finger, I can see that part of the controller being a pretty big issue when it comes to longevity. those motors that would be in such a trigger mechanism would be super small, and if you press too hard against it, over time, I can see these things being more fragile than the Joycon sticks!
Yeah it'll be interesting to find out how it works.

I'm guessing it's going to be a more premium feeling controller though. They're way overdue in releasing one.
 

01011001

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Yeah it'll be interesting to find out how it works.

I'm guessing it's going to be a more premium feeling controller though. They're way overdue in releasing one.
and hopefully the triggers aren't as awfully designed this time... both the PS4 and ESPECIALLY the PS3 controllers had the issue that you had to lay down the controller with the utmost caution or the triggers would register a press... this literally killed an NPC in my Dark Souls 3 playthrough... I wanted to set the controller down because I had to take a piss, and on a flat table it still registered a press of R2 and my character swung that giant sword at the old lady in the firelink shrine... I thought for a moment that I killed her for good, but thankfully she just basically calls you an idiot and raises her prices
 

o'dium

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Well, the triggers on the PS5 intrigue me a lot, and it wouldn’t surprise me if MS actually add them to the final retail product.

I also believe the PS5 will have back buttons, of some form, and it would be nice to have those on the Xbox, too.

But for me, Sony has Xbox beat hands down in terms of pad advancement. The PS4 pad is trash, and sadly for me the PS5 will be as well based on pure holdability and usability. That’s just me. But I can’t say they haven’t beat Xbox with this hands down,

But if Xbox were to add: share button (they have), feedback triggers (possibly, not known), gyro (not known but doubt it), usb-c (highly likely), back buttons (unknown, not likely) and no AA batteries (unknown, not likely) it would be perfect...

But as I said a few times now, that god damn dpad has me spooked. I’m getting worse than 360 vibes, and that takes some beating in the shit awards 🤣
 
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vpance

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and hopefully the triggers aren't as awfully designed this time... both the PS4 and ESPECIALLY the PS3 controllers had the issue that you had to lay down the controller with the utmost caution or the triggers would register a press... this literally killed an NPC in my Dark Souls 3 playthrough... I wanted to set the controller down because I had to take a piss, and on a flat table it still registered a press of R2 and my character swung that giant sword at the old lady in the firelink shrine... I thought for a moment that I killed her for good, but thankfully she just basically calls you an idiot and raises her prices
I think almost everyone who's played Souls games has had that happen to them, lol. The controllers are cheap af.
 
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Stuart360

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I dont think the controllers are badly made, i think its more that they always underestimate how much some people use the controller. My aftermarket XB1 pad has started getting sensitive triggers after a year, although i use it daily for 8+ hours as i control my PC with it. By the way, the controller has lasted longer than official pads funnily enough, i mean it is Microsoft certified, but still.
 

01011001

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My PS4 pad oddly has never had any of the issues people get? Triggers, stick material etc, it’s all still fine, and it’s a launch one. Odd.

The battery is horse wank mind you but aways has been 🤣
well my issue with the trigger is not a defect, it's bad design. the fucking thing rests ON the triggers when layed down flat on a table. that's just awful an leads to unwanted inputs... and in a game like dark souls this can have consequences that could fuck up your game.
I can't comment on the issue with the rubber on the Sticks since I modified my controller to have aftermarket Xbox One Elite sticks.

another issue is one I had when using the DualShock 4 on PC, because in steam you can emulate the mouse with the gyro in the DS4, and this makes it so you can aim prettly much perfectly in stuff like Half Life 2... BUT the issue is, the triggers are at such an angle that if you press them down, the controller automatically lifts up in the front.
you can't compensate for that because of the ergonomics of it.
Steam even added an option for software compensation for this ergonomics issue of the DualShock 4 (no joke) but that doesn't work that well either... so I had to bind fire to R1 instead of R2 which felt weird on a controller with triggers.
 
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Kagey K

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We will know eventually once the specs are revealed. So far supposed "insiders" are saying that PS5 has the advantage in Ray-tracing. We'll see.
Based on what? Is there a game shown they can do a 1:1 comparison of?

Or are we just going off rumoured fact sheets and imagining the best?
 

Kagey K

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Or it could be from this as well.




I fully expect someone with the name Playstation Latest to be non biased.

Definitely a unrefutable source. I wonder what Xbox Latest has to say.

(I actually don’t because none of these people know anything and are just trying to stoke the fire.)

Stop listening to random people on the internet and wait to see for yourself. This shit is beyond belief right now and some of you are giving attention to people that don’t deserve attention.
 

megreotsugua

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Based on what? Is there a game shown they can do a 1:1 comparison of?

Or are we just going off rumoured fact sheets and imagining the best?
Don't sweat it. You find your source that confirms your bias and believe it. You don't need to stress out.

My opinion is that regardless of whether PS is more poweful or not, it will continue to dominate the sales.
 

Kagey K

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Don't sweat it. You find your source that confirms your bias and believe it. You don't need to stress out.

My opinion is that regardless of whether PS is more poweful or not, it will continue to dominate the sales.
There is the goalpost shift. I love it.

It’s always moving to the narrative that you want it to be.
 
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megreotsugua

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There is the goalpost shift. I love it.

It’s always moving to the narrative that you want it to be.
Nope I'm just not interested. I already tolf you. I only listen to the leakers who confirm my bias.

Trust me. Everyone does the same. :messenger_winking:
 

DaMonsta

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I think both consoles will have a custom RT solution that may be a bit different than what will be available in retail cards. Both were kinda vague with the wording.
 

JaffeLion

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We will know eventually once the specs are revealed. So far supposed "insiders" are saying that PS5 has the advantage in Ray-tracing. We'll see.
huh? What? exactly the opposite lol xbox supposed to have dedicated ray tracing cores, whereas PS5 does not. it uses other GPU resources for RT, according to rumors
 

Gamernyc78

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huh? What? exactly the opposite lol xbox supposed to have dedicated ray tracing cores, whereas PS5 does not. it uses other GPU resources for RT, according to rumors
Negative almost all ppl tht have mentioned RT solutions and are suppose to be Insiders have said ps5 RT solution is the one with the edge. We've all been here reading up on the leaks thy gave tht nod to ps5 except for like one person tht said thy were similar.

Some ppl here have selective memory and reading.