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PS5 Specs Look Amazing, Zen 2 CPU Will Bring It Close To PC, Says FAR: Lone Sails Dev.

Well sadly on PC we don't have 8-Core Jaguar CPU cores they only come on 4 core CPUs best comparison would be a FX 8350 at 1.6ghz
Best comparison we have right now is
a dual core i3 with 4 threads and a GTX 750 Ti beating the PS4 in framerate not much but still beating overclocking helps.
The PS5 nor Xbox Scarlett are getting top of the line Zen 2 cores. They are incredibly low clocked.

I didn't say i9-9900k, I said i7-8700k also no where did I say it would double the performance it would perform better and noticeably so.


that is a really bad comparison

the PS4 is capping its framerate for Vsync that is why it wont pass 30 fps, a 31+ fps game will result in tearing on 60 Hz TV/monitor, uncapped framerate its ok to see performance gains betwen systems but you cannot make a comparison agains a capped game and claim it runs better because you cannot know the real framerate, in normal playing conditions you dont want tearing
 
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Xmengrey

Member
Yes you would, im talking about games were devs max out zen2 cores at 30fps


Exactly! but what happens when devs max out Zen2 cores on 30fps games?

Of course crossgen games won't do that; i mean real next gen 30 fps games that push consoles cpu to the limit


If a dev maxes out a game and all 8 Cores are used and the game is 30FPS and 4K, then a PC with a better GPU, and i7-8700K could get 60FPS.
 

SonGoku

Member
If a dev maxes out a game and all 8 Cores are used and the game is 30FPS and 4K, then a PC with a better GPU, and i7-8700K could get 60FPS.
You would need double the perfomance of Zen2 at 3.2Ghz if the game maxes the cpu at 30fps
i78700 doesnt offer nowhere near double so no 60fps
 

Xmengrey

Member
You would need double the perfomance of Zen2 at 3.2Ghz if the game maxes the cpu at 30fps
i78700 doesnt offer nowhere near double so no 60fps
at 4K your more GPU limited so your CPU can stay the same as long as your GPU is better you can achieve 60FPS
 

SonGoku

Member
at 4K your more GPU limited so your CPU can stay the same as long as your GPU is better you can achieve 60FPS
Again you are applying flawed PC logic here my dude.
On consoles devs design around the spec and squeeze the most out of the hw, they can decide to do all sorts of crazy stuff with the cpu on 30fps games
 

psorcerer

Banned
at 4K your more GPU limited so your CPU can stay the same as long as your GPU is better you can achieve 60FPS

Obviously wrong. Just run Assassins Creed Odyssey benchmark in 4K and watch the CPU graph.
Almost all PC games are CPU limited. Unless it's an old or non-graphically demanding one.
 

psorcerer

Banned
All the "it's just loading times" argument here is also pretty strange.
You have a seamless open world game. What "loading times" are there? Does it fit the whole RAM and then never reads from disk? If it streams from disk, how many assets can it load into next area? At 40 mb/sec? At 4000mb/sec? If it can load full stack of new textures each second, what does it mean for texture variety? For mesh variety? etc. etc.
 

scalman

Member
So much compare specs to pc that its funny ,its never same on consoles then pc specs where you using like 40% of your gpu power or less . Still ppl see numbers and they compare.
Lets take ps4 specs and newest unreal 4 game days gone and on pc i cant find anything so good looking 3rd person even maxed well nothing to compare just ac series and newest game is good looking sure but dont tops this ps4 game. And with ps5 we talking way more power , like way more , it wont be anything on pc to compare to ps5 exclusives out there
 
If a dev maxes out a game and all 8 Cores are used and the game is 30FPS and 4K, then a PC with a better GPU, and i7-8700K could get 60FPS.

you need to give more specific information for that claim, what is exactly running in the 8 cores? what is keeping the game from running at 60 fps its the data management, I/O, IA, states , physics, the render time is too long, draw calls , vsync?

and even without clarification your example sounds very reductive and you dont seems to care much for efficiency, cost or power consumption, there are optimisations you can use on consoles that you cannot be sure will be available on PC, for example PS4 dont need to move data betwen different pools like PC that alone saves a lot of time for DMA on Xbox you have the move engines to compensate, on PS4 you will do physics on GPU by default, on PC you will probably run them on CPU or move them to GPU but consider that for the game requirements, if you run them on CPU then the work load is higher in PC compared to a console or maybe you will use a middle ware that handle that, also API overhead is almost non existant on consoles, DX12 and vulkan are there to make much more efficient drawcalls from multiple cpu cores on consoles drawcalls are not a problem while on PC you need generally more CPU power to resolve them faster and usually you design your rendering around this limitation(draw all the forest vs draw each tree individually) on a fixed system you can design a game that exploits it very eficiently on a variable system you cannot know on a fixed system you can exploit the experimental hardware functions of the GPU on PC you usually never touch anything that is not covered in the version of the api the game is using its not apples to apples comparison
 

Xmengrey

Member
=
you need to give more specific information for that claim, what is exactly running in the 8 cores? what is keeping the game from running at 60 fps its the data management, I/O, IA, states , physics, the render time is too long, draw calls , vsync?

and even without clarification your example sounds very reductive and you dont seems to care much for efficiency, cost or power consumption, there are optimisations you can use on consoles that you cannot be sure will be available on PC, for example PS4 dont need to move data betwen different pools like PC that alone saves a lot of time for DMA on Xbox you have the move engines to compensate, on PS4 you will do physics on GPU by default, on PC you will probably run them on CPU or move them to GPU but consider that for the game requirements, if you run them on CPU then the work load is higher in PC compared to a console or maybe you will use a middle ware that handle that, also API overhead is almost non existant on consoles, DX12 and vulkan are there to make much more efficient drawcalls from multiple cpu cores on consoles drawcalls are not a problem while on PC you need generally more CPU power to resolve them faster and usually you design your rendering around this limitation(draw all the forest vs draw each tree individually) on a fixed system you can design a game that exploits it very eficiently on a variable system you cannot know on a fixed system you can exploit the experimental hardware functions of the GPU on PC you usually never touch anything that is not covered in the version of the api the game is using its not apples to apples comparison


Just in general a game won't run at 4K 60FPS on a PS5 while maxing it out. can be done on a PC with simply a better GPU even if the CPU is the same or a i7-8700k.
 

Xmengrey

Member
Obviously wrong. Just run Assassins Creed Odyssey benchmark in 4K and watch the CPU graph.
Almost all PC games are CPU limited. Unless it's an old or non-graphically demanding one.
An in-game isn't the most accurate perf metric but with most games you get more from a GPU upgrade than a CPU one.
 

Xmengrey

Member
why not?



if you cannot improve framerate because the CPU process is so much that your GPU is idle a better GPU wont solve the problem


Should have said a game that won't run on a PS5 at 4k 60FPS which maxes out the GPU and the CPU 3.2Ghz.

A PC with a better GPU even if it had the same CPU could achieve 60FPS as games are mainly GPU limited at the resolution the PS5 is targetting.
never said the GPU was idle don't know where you got that idea.
 

Romulus

Member
Those APIs like DX12, and Vulkan are available on PC those are low level APIs
And no at 60FPS a 5GHz CPU(which isn't very descriptive because a 5GHZ AMD FX gets trounched on by a 3.2ghz Intel i7 8700K) isn't required.
A 5GHz Intel CPU, and a 4.2GHZ Ryzen CPU can get well over 100FPS in games at 1080p.
It's mainly the GPU becomes the main factor at higher resolutions.




Your closed box optimization isn't what you think it is your PS4 games run at 1080p 30FPS most of the time, they turn off AA, or lower it, textures are lower than what they can be, console optimization isn't going to turn a gtx 1050 in a console into a GTX 1050 ti or gtx 1060 in a PC.

They just turn down settings when Detroit Become Human shows up on PC a decent gaming PC will do better than what the PS4 and PS4 Pro can achieve, and a PC of similar specs will do roughly the same as the two console variants.
At 1080p a PC with a i7-8700k, or a Ryzen 5 3600 and a GTX 1080 at 1080p med-high settings(which the PS4/Pro mainly run at) a PC of this calibre can get over 70FPS depending on the game.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, ps4 is lucky to run at even those settings considering its hardware.

You're talking about an I7 versus a jaguar? I hope difference is massive. Also isn't the GTX 1080 way more powerful than the ps4/pro you're comparing it to?
 
Should have said a game that won't run on a PS5 at 4k 60FPS which maxes out the GPU and the CPU 3.2Ghz.

ok , sure you can double the framerate with a "better GPU" if the "better GPU" is better enough and the problem is GPU related

running a "game" at 4k and 60 fps wont max PS5 GPU and CPU just for running at 4k and 60 fps, you have to be more specific what game and what is doing

A PC with a better GPU even if it had the same CPU could achieve 60FPS as games are mainly GPU limited at the resolution the PS5 is targetting.
never said the GPU was idle don't know where you got that idea.

the problem is that you cannot be sure because as you say games are "mainly" limited by GPU, but not always, you can have a game maxing the CPU and if that load wont resolve faster , a better GPU wont improve framerate in that case, there are a lot of games made in unity that dont use all the cores of the CPU a game can run at 30 fps because of that even if more complex and better looking games run at 60, just because you have a lot of cores doesnt mean you can use them easily and effectively you can run in a lot of problems and you can see all the cpu maxed because of bugs

never said the GPU was idle don't know where you got that idea.

but you also never said it wasn't the case

I used an example where that is the case, a CPU bound game, that is why I asked you to be more specific about what the game is doing, you cant throw a generalization and then be surpised its not always true, games work very differently
 
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EDMIX

Member
360 had a PowerPC tri-core CPU that was vastly different from the actual Dual-core x86 in PCs.

The cases are not similar.

PS5 will use the same high-end CPU tech used in desktop PCs... a big jump from the old mobile tech used in PS4 (it was old in 2013 already).

Agreed.

This gen we've seen consoles come close to PC architecture and next gen its getting even closer.
 

EDMIX

Member
Load of hogwash. There is a world of difference between "talking tech" and being a surgeon. For one, the former is just talking, while the latter is a practical skill which requires years of education, training and more training. Anybody with an internet connection, browser and a bit of common sense can be educated about "tech" today, particularly as to how it pertains to gaming consoles. LMFAO

A perfectly valid way of speculating about the future is to look at the past and what has come before. I fail to think of a single console in history that was incapable of producing 60fps games. Yet the majority of games for the past few gens have targeted 30fps. It's up to the devs how they prioritise the available resources. Personally, I would love to see a focus on 60fps games on consoles, but to say that 60fps is a "given for every situation" next gen is absolute bullshit. We may see more 60fps than previous gens, but there will be still those devs that choose to use 30, and some devs will go well above 60fps even, for VR in particular.

I don't know how much you know, I scarcely care at this point. Your attitude has to be one of the worst I've encountered on here in a long, long time.

"It's up to the devs how they prioritise the available resources " Agreed. I don't get why folks ask for that from Sony, Nintendo or MS completely ignoring its a feature the developer decides on ultimately.

If all developers wanted 60fps this generation, no one forced them to use more demanding new engines....they made that choice for a reason.
 

EDMIX

Member
=



Just in general a game won't run at 4K 60FPS on a PS5 while maxing it out. can be done on a PC with simply a better GPU even if the CPU is the same or a i7-8700k.

"Just in general a game won't run at 4K 60FPS on a PS5" huh? What do you mean by "a game"?

What game?

The issue is that is 100% DEVELOPER DEPENDENT they are the ones that decide the engine, how much detail and or how demanding the title will be. So....it makes little sense to say "game won't run at 4K 60FPS on a PS5" It can right now on PS4 Pro, so PS5 won't do what PS4 Pro is doing? Huh? You sure about that or?


So are you 100% sure PS5 can't do settings that PS4 is able to do? Are you...I don't know, sure maybe thats based on developer or?

Its why I'm not doubting a game running 8k on PS5 as we know NOT OF WHAT GAME would be running that ie it could be a PS4 game, PS3 game, PS2 game etc Even a PS5 game that is simply not that demanding. What resolution is running is more so based on what the developer wants and how demanding the engine is.
 
Obviously wrong. Just run Assassins Creed Odyssey benchmark in 4K and watch the CPU graph.
Almost all PC games are CPU limited. Unless it's an old or non-graphically demanding one.

Being CPU bound is entirely dependent on your hardware and your settings.

You are right about ACO being particularly CPU intensive ( many Ubisoft games are ).

I've got an i7 3770K and a 1080ti and in ACO I can't get a locked 60fps no matter the settings. Even if I turn it all the way down to 720p I still can't lock it at 60. Definitely CPU bound.

I disagree that "most PC games are CPU limited" because that statement alone has no meaning. If you have a monster GPU and are playing at 1080p and are going for high refresh gaming then it will seem like many games are CPU bound. If you are playing at 4K then it will seem as most games are GPU bound.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
You would need double the perfomance of Zen2 at 3.2Ghz if the game maxes the cpu at 30fps
i78700 doesnt offer nowhere near double so no 60fps

Nice kick up the arse for the PC industry to push the bar higher. Indeed, if Sony can get Zen 2 at 3.2 GHz, it is an incredible jump of performance (which hopefully should not affect the CPU:GPU budget balance negatively much if at all). Floating point performance of this chip alone will be massive... even per core. Expect some complex physics and AI that some developers may have had trouble adapting to GPU async compute.
 
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llien

Member
A Zen 2 CPU that is likely clocked between 1.8ghz and 3.2ghz it won't really bring it closer to PC in terms of performance. a i7-8700k, or a ryzen 5 3600X should be able to outperform it.

I'm missing the link between "being close" and "not losing to any PC config whatsoever".
Both the 8 core Zen 2 and 7nm 10Tflop+ GPU in PS5 will be much faster than what an average PC gamer has.

IkjgMqL.png
 
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nkarafo

Member
Point is, it doesn't matter how powerful consoles are, devs will still target 30fps 80% of the time.
Yes. No matter how powerful a fixed hardware is, most developers will do anything to max it out with as much eye candy as possible.

That's why i don't like fixed hardware. I prefer being able to get something better than the "target" and brute force 60+ fps myself.
 

SonGoku

Member
I'm missing the link between "being close" and "not losing to any PC config whatsoever".
Both the 8 core Zen 2 and 7nm 10Tflop+ GPU in PS5 will be much faster than what an average PC gamer has.
It was a discussion we had about next gen being much harder to hit 60fps+ on PCs
I was telling him that double the perfomance of the Zen2 core would be needed for PCs to hit 60fps on 30fps next gen console games that max out the CPU.
 

molly14

Member
Maybe every single game on ps5 won’t be 4k/60, but will be a lot more than some posters are claiming ,but I hope they include an option for performance mode of at least 1080p/60 ,1440p/60 ?on every ps5 game which it will easily be able to achieve,locked.

Need an 65 inch 4 k tv though to enjoy all the amazing looking games.Got just over a year to save ,people:messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
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RedVIper

Banned
Yes. No matter how powerful a fixed hardware is, most developers will do anything to max it out with as much eye candy as possible.

That's why i don't like fixed hardware. I prefer being able to get something better than the "target" and brute force 60+ fps myself.

I actually believe more games will start being 60fps from the simply fact that pretty graphics are getting more and more expensive.

Shouldn't be a problem for bigger studios but smaller ones might just let it run at 60fps, games will look good anyway.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
closer to PC. sure.

but it still won't be any where near it.

zen 2 cpus in the PS5 will NOT be as powerful as something like a 3700/3800/3900X on PC. if people are expecting the PS5 to have a cpu that powerful they are in for a very big disappointment.
 

SonGoku

Member
closer to PC. sure.

but it still won't be any where near it.

zen 2 cpus in the PS5 will NOT be as powerful as something like a 3700/3800/3900X on PC. if people are expecting the PS5 to have a cpu that powerful they are in for a very big disappointment.
8 Zen2 cores at 3.2Ghz is pretty damn powerful on a closed boxed where devs will squeeze the most out of it.
PC gamers should be happy Consoles are setting the bar higher.
 
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TBF - they say this at the start of every single generation. I'll believe it when I see it.

I agree; Sony always hypes shit up when it comes to hardware, only for people to be let down in the end.

Remember when they claimed that the PS2 would have "Toy Story" graphics before it was officially released? That's a great example. That's why expectations must be kept in check.
 
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CJY

Banned
That's why i don't like fixed hardware. I prefer being able to get something better than the "target" and brute force 60+ fps myself.
You don’t like to own fixed hardware or you don’t like the existence of fixed hardware?

It obvious you probably mean you don’t like consoles and therefore you prefer PC. But... at the end of the day, this is console thread and consoles are mostly fixed, so your comment feels vaguely “PC-master-race”-ish.
 
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nkarafo

Member
It obvious you probably mean you don’t like consoles and therefore you prefer PC. But... at the end of the day, this is console thread and consoles are mostly fixed, so your comment feels vaguely “PC-master-race”-ish.
My comment was a response to someone, agreeing to what he said and adding my own take on it.

And no, this is not a "console thread". This is a console hardware specs thread, the article linked in the OP has comparisons with PCs, there is such comparison quoted in the OP and even in the thread title there's a comparison to PCs. Also, half of the posts in this thread are comparisons with PC parts.

So, it's OK to compare the console favorably to PCs but if someone disagrees it's some kind of shit posting?

You don’t like to own fixed hardware or you don’t like the existence of fixed hardware?
Strange question. I suppose you are trying to reach for something here? Would you prefer i don't like the "existence of fixed hardware" to make me sound unreasonable and expose me?
 
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pel

Neo Member
The problem with PC Gaming is most of the games engines are still based on DX11, some have a DX11 and DX12 mode, like BFV or TD2, but they are still DX11 games patched to DX12
 
Safe to say, DX12 is a total flop.
No it isn't... DX12(DXR) and Vulkan will power the future of PC games. They perhaps announced it too early... but DX12 is a FAR better API than DX11 is given the developers have the knowledge and need to exploit it.

I agree with P pel The problem right now is that we have engines which aren't designed around the new APIs. Future engines and games from AAA developers should be better threaded and coded to take advantage of what DX12/Vulkan offer.
 
“It will definitely bring console performances closer to PC / desktop settings,” they said, “which means less optimizations for ports.”
I remember devs back in 2013 saying the same thing because "x86 magic". Jaguar easy-peasy programming, amirite?

Were they lying or what?

You would need double the perfomance of Zen2 at 3.2Ghz if the game maxes the cpu at 30fps
Exactly! Good luck finding a Zen 2 CPU running at 6.4 GHz (maybe with LN2 cooling!). It's the same reason Crysis 1 still cannot have locked 60 fps, even on high-end PCs.

Btw, I'm assuming that both consoles and PCs will use low-level APIs, because if consoles use DX12 (i.e. AC Odyssey) and PCs use a DX12 -> DX11 translation layer, then you're gonna need even more CPU horsepower to account for high-level API deficiencies.

PC gamers should be grateful to Jaguar, because it allowed them to use 10-year old CPUs and still hit 60 fps. Are they prepared for huge PC upgrades or nah?

If console devs target 30 fps once again, then you can kiss your 60 fps goodbye!

closer to PC. sure.

but it still won't be any where near it.

zen 2 cpus in the PS5 will NOT be as powerful as something like a 3700/3800/3900X on PC. if people are expecting the PS5 to have a cpu that powerful they are in for a very big disappointment.
12 cores will be useless for single-threaded games & old APIs (like DX11).

Yes, you will have higher clocks on PCs with discrete CPUs, but nowhere near 6.4 GHz.

Safe to say, DX12 is a total flop.
On PCs? Maybe.

AC Odyssey wouldn't even run on consoles at 30 fps without DX12/GNM:

dx12_APU.PNG-740x376.png


86100.png
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes. No matter how powerful a fixed hardware is, most developers will do anything to max it out with as much eye candy as possible.

That's why i don't like fixed hardware. I prefer being able to get something better than the "target" and brute force 60+ fps myself.

Which ironically you can more easily do thanks to fixed HW consoles (which are pleasant for devs as you can get to know the HW well :)).
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Lay off the drugs.......

Most PC games are developed consoles first in terms of target spec and then scaled up (which was a genius move in the Xbox One X’s design as a mid generation update). Not sure what counterpoint you raised there to a reasonable POV...
 
On PCs? Maybe.

AC Odyssey wouldn't even run on consoles at 30 fps without DX12/GNM:

dx12_APU.PNG-740x376.png


86100.png


most people usually dont understand that kind of tests, the number of drawcalls a system/game can do doesnt mean much on a real game because you can use few drawcalls to render lot of things or use a drawcall to draw each thing if there is not much overhead of it, on consoles drawcalls are not a problem since the 3d consoles, its not because DX12/GNM is because they can work close to the metal with the api for them with no overhead of a driver or an os just to start rendering an object, xbox one had(probably was fixed some years ago) very slow drawcalls but was rarely mentioned by devs(like metro devs) and it was never a problem betwen ports, lower resolution was usually atributed at the eSRAM and fewer CUs in the GPU on PC and consoles there are many old games with lot of characters without problems no matter how many drawcalls you can do

what AC Odyssey do that require DX12 on consoles?
 
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Journey

Banned
That's 60fps at 480p.
Revising history? The cards listed were already 3 years old at the time (try contemporary cards).
You make the "facts" agree with your argument like a creationist pro.

edit: oops, thought you meant COD4. Still, those benchmarks are higher resolution/image settings.


480p???

1280 x 720 which was a 16:9 resolution. Most PC monitors were 1280 x 1024 which was the closest resolution benchmark to use. And you're wrong about the settings, when CoD 2 launched, it was said to be comparable to high end PC settings and even have better smoke effects on 360, smoke grenades produced denser fog.

The Xbox 360 version is comparable to a high-end PC system running the game, and in some little cases -- like a lit landscape or a full-blown fighting sequence -- the Xbox 360 version looks superior. Call of Duty 2 is easily one of the best looking Xbox 360 games for launch. IGN Review 2005

Although it wasn't all rosy with the frame-rate dropping in heavy firefights, it's still a good example of what can be achieved during a console's launch window when spec's are still fresh and you're dealing with a closed platform.
 
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