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Opinion Game Dev Hardware PS5: The DualSense will be "exponentially better" than the DualShock, according to Tequila Works

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
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ibiza

Raúl Rubio, CEO of the company, has talked to MeriStation about its adaptation to teleworking, as we will soon tell you; but there was also time to talk about the possibilities of the new PS5 controller, the DualSense, the protagonist of Sony's next generation.

"It's a very interesting idea, but above all, it's a pretty smart application of the technology," he begins by saying about the new features DualSense will offer. On traditional controllers, Rubio was beginning to show a lack of boldness when it came to implementing new features such as those offered by Stadia when it comes to interacting with video game controllers. With the DualSense, he's hopeful that the situation will be reversed and we'll have a more sensory experience.

"Oddly enough, I have to play on every platform: PC with mouse; Nintendo Switch; on Stadia with a tablet or the first thing I pick up. I was starting to miss some things. If I play in Switch, it may seem silly, but HD Vibration shows up a lot; the difference is like riding a late model Mercedes and a tractor, basically, at the sensitivity level. Nintendo is an expert at taking technologies, turning them around and making them fun. There are things that, when they're not there, you miss them a lot. For example, the built-in speaker, which offers many possibilities for creating in-game actions where everything is in context - like if someone starts calling you on a phone, for example. These are details that add immersion," he adds, happy to see Sony's bold move to the traditional DualShock of recent years.

The relocation of the light bar is also of interest to the leader of Tequila Works for a mere matter of convenience. "The light bar itself, it's true that originally it was created to use the camera and track the controller; but now it has been moved because they had realized that people used to play with the controller very close to the TV and it could reflect the player from the screen. The fact that the bar now turns around the touchpad and we can see it from the front is just an ergonomic detail, but it adds a lot.

And haptic feedback, the most interesting aspect for Rubio of all that has been presented to date about the PlayStation 5 controller. "Haptic feedback is something that we can see not only in passive terms. What would happen if we started having biometric data of the player and if we could know how he feels? That is, to have an experience more like what we have started to see with Stadia.

"Those little innovations, all those adjustments, make the command exponentially better. I don't get involved in ergonomics any more, or which one you might like more or less," he adds of the current PS4 controller, the DualShock. As far as the Xbox Series X controller goes, he thinks it's more of an evolution of something that already worked great, a more direct way of thinking and without so many quirks.

"If you compare, for example, with the Xbox Wireless Controller, when I use it it's for convenience, for a driver issue, because it works and it's simple. It's a traditional controller, but with great weight distribution and button sensitivity. It's a more conservative approach; a philosophy that, as a developer, I see that they have looked more for a standardization of components and forget about gimmicks [...] The Microsoft controller works and does it perfectly. Everything you can do on the PC you can do on Xbox Series X. If you look at it that way, their controller is more of an evolution," he says. As for PlayStation 5: "I see that Sony has been a little more daring and has tried to see a little more with the share button feature, which was a more one-way process based on just sharing the experience. In this case, with Create, you can do something a little more active. And that's where I leave off," he laughs, aware of how far he can talk at the moment.

Rubio believes that both PS5 and Xbox Series X "have very similar hardware", but that "the jump in hardware features is exponential compared to the previous generation. We used to joke that the current generation was a consequence of the global economic crisis. If with PS3 and Xbox 360 the house had been thrown out of the window, with the next generation everything had been contained; with GPUs designed to work in low power... In this generation, both have been put on the road and, at the level of CPU, GPU, transmission buses, speeds, etc., it's really impressive," he underlines, convinced that the consoles that will arrive in Christmas 2020 will be prepared to last for many years.
 

Zannegan

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Feb 20, 2018
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I really don't understand the Stadia comparisons here. They're streaming, sure, but I don't think I've ever seen a pad with less innovation than the Stadia controller.

And I just bet Google is salivating at the thought of tracking players emotions as they play through the game. I thought the heart sensor was a benign if stupid peripheral when they showed it off for the Wii. Now I'm seeing it as another way to try to map out my consumer mind. Gross.
 

TBiddy

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Mar 16, 2015
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But integrated mic was one of the most requested features on DS4.
Perhaps. But that doesn't mean I think it makes sense.

That said, who knows - they might present some unique features that relies on the mic, and which makes total sense when we see them. It's not always we know what we want, until we get told what we want.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
Jun 7, 2004
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Sorry not keeping up. But what specials does Dual sense do, in a sense?
More degrees of vibration?
 

Matt_Fox

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Jul 24, 2019
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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
 
Last edited:

martino

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Apr 25, 2013
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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
i dare them to try and sell a box without controller.
Would be funny to watch people and media reaction to it.
 
Last edited:

GHG

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Nov 9, 2006
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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
The controller won't be bundled? So it's only for existing Xbox owners then? That's the target market?
 
Dec 29, 2018
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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
My friend, you clearly didnt think this through before hitting the post button.

Re-read your post and try again.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
You are trying to live a reverse Xbox One fantasy here...
 

bhunachicken

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Apr 11, 2018
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The PS5 has been confirmed to come with the Dual Sense bundled with it. It won't add anything to the price because Sony are going to take a hit on that.

PS4 controllers will also work with the PS5, but PS5 titles will require the Dual Sense to work. If you try and play a PS5 game with a DualShock 4 it will prompt you to use the Dual Sense.
 

Matt_Fox

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Jul 24, 2019
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When you buy a PC it generally doesn't come with a keyboard and mouse, and when buying a new console there are usually options to buy an additional controller in the "frequently bought with" sidebar on Amazon. It's also true that Nintendo got up to some controller shenanigan's with Wii Play being an actual game + controller bundle.

But I think it's unlikely (and would be daring) that Xbox will release the XSX without a controller packed in. But the option is there. They've made great hay from their 'ecosystem' and that controllers and games will work across devices, so who knows...
 

Hostile_18

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Jun 7, 2015
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The PS5 has been confirmed to come with the Dual Sense bundled with it. It won't add anything to the price because Sony are going to take a hit on that.

PS4 controllers will also work with the PS5, but PS5 titles will require the Dual Sense to work. If you try and play a PS5 game with a DualShock 4 it will prompt you to use the Dual Sense.
Is this confirmed? Seems a bit over the top that resistant triggers and haptic feedback couldnt easily be converted to a DS4, albeit for a slightly lesser experience.
 

FranXico

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Dec 7, 2010
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Is this confirmed? Seems a bit over the top that resistant triggers and haptic feedback couldnt easily be converted to a DS4, albeit for a slightly lesser experience.
I didn't see it confirmed anywhere, but this was how it worked this gen. The PS3 got support for the DS4 via a firmware update, but the DS3 could not be used on the PS4.

Although the fact that PSVR will work on PS5, as well as PS4 BC, opens the possibility...
 

SixFourMike

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Feb 24, 2012
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For example, the built-in speaker, which offers many possibilities for creating in-game actions where everything is in context - like if someone starts calling you on a phone, for example. These are details that add immersion," he adds, happy to see Sony's bold move to the traditional DualShock of recent years.
This reminds me of MGS4. You could connect a Bluetooth headset and codec calls come through that instead of the main sound output. I like the idea of the controller speaker if it’s not super low quality.
 
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darkinstinct

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Sony has certainly created something more ambitious than Microsoft. I'm not referring to the layout here, but the haptics, if that work as people think it will. I couldn't care less about integrated speakers and integrated mic, though.
But who will use it? Gyro controls, Touchpad, adaptive triggers on Xbox One, the Wii U controller, HD rumble on Switch - Why should haptic feedback be any different? Games are still built for multiplatform experiences. Using these additional features that are exclusive to certain consoles will always be a tacked on experience, and it will suck.
 
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TBiddy

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But who will use it? Gyro controls, Touchpad, adaptive triggers on Xbox One, the Wii U controller, HD rumble on Switch - Why should haptic feedback be any different? Games are still built for multiplatform experiences. Using these additional features that are exclusive to certain consoles will always be a tacked on experience, and it will suck.
Hard to say. Depends how much work it is to implement the feedback. But I suppose it would primarily be first party games.
 

darkinstinct

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Cost: The current Dualshock 4 is $60 on Amazon. The presumption is that this will be significantly more, maybe $80+

If PS5 comes bundled with DualSense then it's going to be another costly factor that pushes the PS5 console into price parity with the more powerful XSX. In fact if Microsoft choose not to bundle the controller (as the current one works across the whole Xbox ecosystem) then they 'might' even be able to undercut Sony. More powerful AND cheaper, happy days for Microsoft.
A controller's BOM is in the range of $15. Even if it becomes $20 with the new features, it won't move the retail price up by $20 on its own.
 

drotahorror

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Mar 21, 2014
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Sony has certainly created something more ambitious than Microsoft. I'm not referring to the layout here, but the haptics, if that work as people think it will. I couldn't care less about integrated speakers and integrated mic, though.
Microsoft's fuckin out. Sony's fuckin in.

Just wanted to say that cuz Eastbound and Down is the GOAT.
 
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Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
The Dual Sense will be better than the Dual Shock?

I'm tempted to say that wouldn't be hard. Since the Dual Shock is shit.

I've never understood PlayStation controllers. Just give me something comfortable to use, that doesn't feel like it will snap clean in half should I squeeze it too hard, without any pointless gimmicks. Why is this so hard.
 

Quasicat

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Aug 8, 2019
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I didn't see it confirmed anywhere, but this was how it worked this gen. The PS3 got support for the DS4 via a firmware update, but the DS3 could not be used on the PS4.
This is what I’m looking at. I still use a Dualshock 4 on my PS3, even though it doesn’t use certain features like rumble. I will probably not pick up a PS5 for awhile, but I do like the design of the Dualsense. If it could be playable on a PS4, I will definitely pick one up.
 

D.Final

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Oct 18, 2018
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Raúl Rubio, CEO of the company, has talked to MeriStation about its adaptation to teleworking, as we will soon tell you; but there was also time to talk about the possibilities of the new PS5 controller, the DualSense, the protagonist of Sony's next generation.

"It's a very interesting idea, but above all, it's a pretty smart application of the technology," he begins by saying about the new features DualSense will offer. On traditional controllers, Rubio was beginning to show a lack of boldness when it came to implementing new features such as those offered by Stadia when it comes to interacting with video game controllers. With the DualSense, he's hopeful that the situation will be reversed and we'll have a more sensory experience.

"Oddly enough, I have to play on every platform: PC with mouse; Nintendo Switch; on Stadia with a tablet or the first thing I pick up. I was starting to miss some things. If I play in Switch, it may seem silly, but HD Vibration shows up a lot; the difference is like riding a late model Mercedes and a tractor, basically, at the sensitivity level. Nintendo is an expert at taking technologies, turning them around and making them fun. There are things that, when they're not there, you miss them a lot. For example, the built-in speaker, which offers many possibilities for creating in-game actions where everything is in context - like if someone starts calling you on a phone, for example. These are details that add immersion," he adds, happy to see Sony's bold move to the traditional DualShock of recent years.

The relocation of the light bar is also of interest to the leader of Tequila Works for a mere matter of convenience. "The light bar itself, it's true that originally it was created to use the camera and track the controller; but now it has been moved because they had realized that people used to play with the controller very close to the TV and it could reflect the player from the screen. The fact that the bar now turns around the touchpad and we can see it from the front is just an ergonomic detail, but it adds a lot.

And haptic feedback, the most interesting aspect for Rubio of all that has been presented to date about the PlayStation 5 controller. "Haptic feedback is something that we can see not only in passive terms. What would happen if we started having biometric data of the player and if we could know how he feels? That is, to have an experience more like what we have started to see with Stadia.

"Those little innovations, all those adjustments, make the command exponentially better. I don't get involved in ergonomics any more, or which one you might like more or less," he adds of the current PS4 controller, the DualShock. As far as the Xbox Series X controller goes, he thinks it's more of an evolution of something that already worked great, a more direct way of thinking and without so many quirks.

"If you compare, for example, with the Xbox Wireless Controller, when I use it it's for convenience, for a driver issue, because it works and it's simple. It's a traditional controller, but with great weight distribution and button sensitivity. It's a more conservative approach; a philosophy that, as a developer, I see that they have looked more for a standardization of components and forget about gimmicks [...] The Microsoft controller works and does it perfectly. Everything you can do on the PC you can do on Xbox Series X. If you look at it that way, their controller is more of an evolution," he says. As for PlayStation 5: "I see that Sony has been a little more daring and has tried to see a little more with the share button feature, which was a more one-way process based on just sharing the experience. In this case, with Create, you can do something a little more active. And that's where I leave off," he laughs, aware of how far he can talk at the moment.

Rubio believes that both PS5 and Xbox Series X "have very similar hardware", but that "the jump in hardware features is exponential compared to the previous generation. We used to joke that the current generation was a consequence of the global economic crisis. If with PS3 and Xbox 360 the house had been thrown out of the window, with the next generation everything had been contained; with GPUs designed to work in low power... In this generation, both have been put on the road and, at the level of CPU, GPU, transmission buses, speeds, etc., it's really impressive," he underlines, convinced that the consoles that will arrive in Christmas 2020 will be prepared to last for many years.
I'm curious to try it
 

Tiamat2san

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Meh, I’ve always hated analog sticks placement on DualShocks.
Still the same next gen so whatever they do, it won’t t feel good to me.

Just curious about haptic.
The LT/RT triggers on the Xbox one are excellent, so if that can do better, cool.
 
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Batiman

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I hope so. Can’t play any kind of shooters with the ds4. I bought a few third party shooters on the OG Xbox one for that reason alone. Besides that, it’s pretty comfortable.
 

Rat Rage

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Well, that sure better be the case

PS1, 2 and 3 controllers were all great controllers (like you would expect from 1st party controllers)

Dualshock 4 was a massive downgrade quality-wise (some would even call it a "piece of shit") and quite frankly a disgrace to the flawless reputation of 1st party controllers in general.

Sony just has to do better this time.
 
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Apr 18, 2020
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Blah blah blah blah.

ergonomics
Build quality
Battery life

stfu about anything else. In the ergonomics department it seems like a step down but we’ll see. And battery life on ds4 is atrocious.

im also not happy about a microphone being on the controller so good old google can spy on me.

this is just fluff
 

iHaunter

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Sep 6, 2015
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Sony has certainly created something more ambitious than Microsoft. I'm not referring to the layout here, but the haptics, if that work as people think it will. I couldn't care less about integrated speakers and integrated mic, though.
The mic was actually heavily requested funny enough. Everything in one device. But haptic feedback and bumpers with resistance.
 
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