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Opinion Game Dev Platform PS5 Variable Frequency is Very Versatile, Tempest Will be a Game Changer – Dev

MastaKiiLA

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Hopefully the headphones are $150, as speculated. I'd like to get a pair. The PS4 one used to make my ears sweat though.
 

Umbral

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I’m just in here for the positivity. I’ll be in the corner of the pool just soaking it in. 2020 has been a bitch.

I’m not super techy, but if I understand the variable stuff right what they did is they designed for thermal limits first so that the clock speed could always remain at or near max. Is that right?
 
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nowhat

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I’m not super techy, but if I understand the variable stuff right what they did is they designed for thermal limits first so that the clock speed could always remain at or near max. Is that right?
Basically, and do correct me if I'm wrong, the system is designed to have a constant power draw, no matter how that power is split between the CPU and GPU. Thus the cooling solution can be built around that power draw, which (in theory) means the fans (or whatever cooling solution is used) will also run at a constant rate, possibly making the system quieter (or at least consistently loud, we'll see how it turns out).
 
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JerryinSoCal

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I have the platinum headset already and it sounds great but I'm not the type of guy that likes wearing big headphones for very long, they start to get uncomfortable to me. I wonder how much better then new set is going to be?
 

kuncol02

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Basically, and do correct me if I'm wrong, the system is designed to have a constant power draw, no matter how that power is split between the CPU and GPU. Thus the cooling solution can be built around that power draw, which (in theory) means the fans (or whatever cooling solution is used) will also run at a constant rate, possibly making the system quieter (or at least consistently loud, we'll see how it turns out).
Only thing it allows it to use weaker cooling solution because you can design quiet cooling system for both components using full power too (it will be much bigger and more expensive).
There are some edge cases where it allow to push some more power into one component with cost of other one power, but IMO that situations in stationary device are way to far into inefficient part of powercurve to be even considered (like heavy overclock).
 

Rikkori

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I can't find a home theatre system with the receiver supporting both 4K and HDR in my country. And if I find such a receiver, it comes with no speakers, and I have no idea what speakers to buy which won't get fried by the receiver.

The best I found was this, but it doesn't support HDR (at least, doesn't say if it does).


It's very hard to go wrong with 4 ohms speakers. There's plenty of resources around and plenty of forums where you can just ask, I'm sure in Greek also.

Even from that site, here's a fast 5.1 setup I put together:



Note: I'm not necessarily recommending those choices and at those prices, those are just for an example. Tho I did use both that AVR & speakers and they are quite good, though for the AVR that one would limit you to just 5.1 with no upgrade path, but that's okay in general because AVRs get more expensive quickly and if you don't know you want to add more in the future, it's not worth worrying about. Downside also - no HDMI 2.1, but there's ways around that possibly.
 

Nickolaidas

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It's very hard to go wrong with 4 ohms speakers. There's plenty of resources around and plenty of forums where you can just ask, I'm sure in Greek also.

Even from that site, here's a fast 5.1 setup I put together:



Note: I'm not necessarily recommending those choices and at those prices, those are just for an example. Tho I did use both that AVR & speakers and they are quite good, though for the AVR that one would limit you to just 5.1 with no upgrade path, but that's okay in general because AVRs get more expensive quickly and if you don't know you want to add more in the future, it's not worth worrying about. Downside also - no HDMI 2.1, but there's ways around that possibly.
This is the problem. The particular receiver does not support hdr.

Theoretically, I could connect a ps4 with an optical cable, but I will unable to connect it to a series x with hdmi and also have hdr.

The soundbar I found comes with rear speakers and a subwoofer, and supports both 4k and hdr.
 
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Amaranty

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I have the platinum headset already and it sounds great but I'm not the type of guy that likes wearing big headphones for very long, they start to get uncomfortable to me. I wonder how much better then new set is going to be?
I had the Sony Gold headset and it also became a bit uncomfortable after an hour or so. I bought HyperX Cloud headset. It's a wired headset, you can plug it into the controller or into console through USB (the cable is quite long).

It's the most comfortable headset I have ever used. Never gets uncomfortable. They also come with foam padding, which is useful in summer time, when it's hot.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
I had the Sony Gold headset and it also became a bit uncomfortable after an hour or so. I bought HyperX Cloud headset. It's a wired headset, you can plug it into the controller or into console through USB (the cable is quite long).

It's the most comfortable headset I have ever used. Never gets uncomfortable. They also come with foam padding, which is useful in summer time, when it's hot.

How's the sound quality? Is it crisp and clear? Does it have some nice base to it?
 

Amaranty

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How's the sound quality? Is it crisp and clear? Does it have some nice base to it?
It's difficult to tell what the sound quality is like compared to my Gold hesdset, since I've been using them for 2-3 years now. If you connect it through USB then the sound quality is a bit better than connecting it through the controller, like there's more bass/depth to the sound, but I still connect it through the controller since the console is some distance away from me.

It sounds good enough for me. Audio is clear and not muddy. I think it was king in price/quality when it first came out. I think they now sell Hyperx Cloud 2. It's worth reading reviews before making a purchase.
 
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skneogaf

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I assume Sony had to invent a 3d audio solution as dolby atmos and dts x on games both use Windows sonic.

I hope dolby are able to use the tempest engine thing to get dolby atmos to work on the ps5.

Simple 3d audio using 2 speakers is not good enough in 2020
 
Mar 27, 2020
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I assume Sony had to invent a 3d audio solution as dolby atmos and dts x on games both use Windows sonic.

I hope dolby are able to use the tempest engine thing to get dolby atmos to work on the ps5.

Simple 3d audio using 2 speakers is not good enough in 2020

Isn't the tempest engine designed to work with a wide variety do devices? So everything from a headset to a complex surround sound system should benefit from it. You don't need Dolby Atmos to get good sound quality from my understanding of the situation.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Sorry, but your atmos channel isn't doing anything on that soundbar. Sound bars are a sin for anyone into home theater audio.

You're not getting surround channels either. At most you're getting a 3.1 system but even then, the center and front left+right speakers are too close together in the bar to make any real noticeable sound separation. Sound bars are just a gimmick.
I'm selling my old receiver + speakers and subwoofer to get a sound bar, the whole thing is way too big, and when I get to enjoy audio this is because the family is asleep... Which means I have to use headphones anway. 😬

I will probably regret this move later on 😭.
 
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I've migrated to headphones.... they made a huge difference when playing TLOU2. It really made the whole experience better and allowed me to appreciate the amount of detail in the sound design.
The fun thing is that while I love the sound quality of TLoU 2, I seem to remember that the first one had better 3d audio placement.

The conspirationist in me think that this game will be used to demonstrate the tempest audio engine of the ps5 and that if they already have had a good 3d audio engine that would have made the demo less impressive.

Or maybe this is all the fault of interdimentional aliens!
 
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Rikkori

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This is the problem. The particular receiver does not support hdr.

Theoretically, I could connect a ps4 with an optical cable, but I will unable to connect it to a series x with hdmi and also have hdr.

The soundbar I found comes with rear speakers and a subwoofer, and supports both 4k and hdr.
Are you talking about the Sony or the Denon?
 

Nickolaidas

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Are you talking about the Sony or the Denon?
The Denon.

At any rate, my room is small so the soundbar will probably be more effective. Plus, it comes with a woofer and rear speakers, so I'll definitely get the surround feel.

To get an idea, my speakers are currently to each side of my 42" TV. The Soundbar is about the same length so technically its left/right side is the same distance with my current left/right speakers.
 
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Rikkori

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The Denon.

At any rate, my room is small so the soundbar will probably be more effective. Plus, it comes with a woofer and rear speakers, so I'll definitely get the surround feel.

To get an idea, my speakers are currently to each side of my 42" TV. The Soundbar is about the same length so technically its left/right side is the same distance with my current left/right speakers.
It absolutely does, and I've personally tested it.
The AVR-X550BT features an advanced HDMI section with 5 inputs that offer full 4K Ultra HD, HDR (High Dynamic Range), BT.2020, Wide Color Gamut, 4:4:4 Pure Color sub-sampling, as well as 21:9 and 3D video pass-through, Dolby Vision compatibility and HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma) pass-through support.

Listen, if a soundbar fits your needs better then go for it. Just know how much you are giving up for that form factor.
 

CrysisFreak

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I just want to feel adaptive triggers while playing Ratchet and Clank in pristine native 4K. Is that too much to ask? Sony announce the release date NOW!
 

CrysisFreak

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Variable frequency is versatile. It is becoming more difficult everyday to explain how this aspect of the console is actually a strength it seems.

Or you could have a system that delivers its full potential 100% of the time and don't have to care about adjusting frequency.
Xbox Series X doesn't deliver its full potential even 1% of the time because without variable frequency they are leaving performance on the table and that's a fact.
But it was their rational choice. To have variable frequency they'd need die space for that and they didn't want to make that concession.
pls educat3 urself
 

ZehDon

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Isn't the tempest engine designed to work with a wide variety do devices? So everything from a headset to a complex surround sound system should benefit from it. You don't need Dolby Atmos to get good sound quality from my understanding of the situation.
Not quite. At launch it'll work for headphones and it'll work within a "sweet spot" for TV Speakers, with the hopes to one day bring its ambisonics to surround sound setups. The PS5 can turn off its Tempest Engine 3D Audio, so users can fall back to the more traditional surround sound setups that we're used to until Sony have it functioning. We'll still benefit from the higher number of audio sources that the engine allows for, but it won't illicit the effect that using headphones with the 3D Audio enabled will.
 
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All this Tempest audio is just hrtf which is very person specific. It just won't work on some people in certain set ups. Some might hear it great from tv speakers while others it will sound bad. Best bet is get some good non gaming headphones and a decent amp and worst case you will have great audio. Best case you get great positioning as well.
 

skneogaf

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Isn't the tempest engine designed to work with a wide variety do devices? So everything from a headset to a complex surround sound system should benefit from it. You don't need Dolby Atmos to get good sound quality from my understanding of the situation.

If an av receiver doesn't support whatever Sony is doing how will I get my 7.2.4 speakers to work correctly?

It really does just come across like it's a fake 3d sound which we're all aware of.

I hope Sony can do something amazing I really do as dolby atmos and dts x are excellent so if they can somehow give me the same thing using my setup then I'll be in heaven playing god of war 2.
 
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If an av receiver doesn't support whatever Sony is doing how will I get my 7.2.4 speakers to work correctly?

It really does just come across like it's a fake 3d sound which we're all aware of.

I hope sint can do something amazing I really do as dolby atmos and dts x are absolutely amazing so if they can somehow give me the same thing using my setup then I'll be in heaven playing god of war 2.

Developers haven't said anything about it being shitty. They appear to be excited for it. Im pretty sure it isn't just crappy 3D audio because that wouldn't be exciting to anyone.
 
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skneogaf

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Developers haven't said anything about it being shitty. They appear to be excited for it. Im pretty sure it isn't just crappy 3D audio because that wouldn't be exciting to anyone.

How can it be anything else?

3d audio with 2 speakers or headphones is surely just a version of what we already have heard.

I listened to the Sony 3d audio demo with headphones that someone on here or the other gaming forum that bans everyone who doesn't think a particular way.

It sounded very good but no better than dts x headphones thst have been trying on my driving simulator.

I'd love to be wrong 2 speakers for multiple directions and objects equals fake 3d sound.



I think this was it

 
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Mar 27, 2020
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How can it be anything else?

3d audio with 2 speakers or headphones is surely just a version of what we already have heard.

I listened to the Sony 3d audio demo with headphones that someone on here or the other gaming forum that bans everyone who doesn't think a particular way.

It sounded very good but no better than dts x headphones thst have been trying on my driving simulator.

I'd love to be wrong 2 speakers for multiple directions and objects equals fake 3d sound.



I think this was it


From Cernys presentation it seems like it's alot more than just some crappy 3D audio. I mean they modified an entire CU just for the tempest engine so that alone proves that it isn't just some crappy software implementation.


Also Sony as a hardware company has plenty of experience with sound. So I don't understand why the PS5s sound quality is terrible if it doesn't use Dolby Atmos.

Edit:


Also I remember that someone told me that Sony bought Wwise. If anything the combination of the tempest engine and technology from Wwise is an indication that sound won't be terrible on the PS5 with or without Dolby Atmos.
 
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Lort

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Its so versatile to be able to choose exactly which aspect of the PS5 GPU performs least worst compared to the XSeX version of your game.
 
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Lort

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Anyone who isnt running at least 5.1 if not DTS or Atoms by now is not a “real” gamer.
 

Kagey K

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So sick of all this talk. Show us five seconds of your game running with it and without it, or shut the fuck up.

Enough is enough now.

The time to talk is over. (am I doing this right?)
 

Whitecrow

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Tempest sounds (lol) really interesting.



It's a compensation method plain and simple. There is absolutely no advantage to having it.
Of course there's advantage.
The fact that you can overclock the GPU if the CPU doesnt need the power is an advantage.

There are no consumer GPUs clocking at >=2GHz, but the PS5 can thanks to it's tech.

But if what you wanna say is that PS5 lacks some horsepower, then we can agree.
 
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skneogaf

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I absolutely don't believe that the ps5 gpu will run at full speed for more than seconds or maybe a minute as of when is needed.

I believe the frequency will ramp up for high demand things like explosions or something else but why can the ps5 gpu go to frequencies that no gpu has done in home computing.

Its a great idea and will definitely smooth out the drops in performance games have in high demanding scenes but I still see the ps5 as less their highest frequency teraflop number as I can't imagine it not struggling to ramp up the frequency if a player is purposefully trying to stress the machine with some game thing like heavy rain, full car count smashing in the other cars to cause bits flying off kind of stress test in some garbage developed game like assetto corsa competizione on console.

We shall see and hopefully the ps5 will change how gpus and cpus are ran from now on.
 

MastaKiiLA

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I absolutely don't believe that the ps5 gpu will run at full speed for more than seconds or maybe a minute as of when is needed.

I believe the frequency will ramp up for high demand things like explosions or something else but why can the ps5 gpu go to frequencies that no gpu has done in home computing.

Its a great idea and will definitely smooth out the drops in performance games have in high demanding scenes but I still see the ps5 as less their highest frequency teraflop number as I can't imagine it not struggling to ramp up the frequency if a player is purposefully trying to stress the machine with some game thing like heavy rain, full car count smashing in the other cars to cause bits flying off kind of stress test in some garbage developed game like assetto corsa competizione on console.

We shall see and hopefully the ps5 will change how gpus and cpus are ran from now on.
It really depends on hos graphics or computationally expensive any particular area in a game is. But since the switch can happen multiple times in a single frame, I agree with you that there might not be a lot of scenarios where the hardware needs to run at full clock for extended periods of time. This is based on the idea that microprocessors spend a lot of time waiting for data, and even when they are processing, don't necessarily have a full plate to eat.

I should add that I have no idea how efficient game engines have become in the last 5 years. Maybe coders have gotten good enough to basically stress test hardware for long periods of gameplay.
 
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FranXico

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Xbox Series X doesn't deliver its full potential even 1% of the time because without variable frequency they are leaving performance on the table and that's a fact.
But it was their rational choice. To have variable frequency they'd need die space for that and they didn't want to make that concession.
pls educat3 urself
That concession does have advantages though.
 

Dave_at_Home

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Both companies come to the same conclusion, but different ways of getting there. Why is that? Microsoft's Series X GPU is literally a server grade GPU. Series X is simply apart of a larger ecosystem that Microsoft wants you to be apart of. If it's not the Series X, it could be Lockheart, if not that, than PC or tablet. On the other hand, we have Sony. Why did they build their system with features like variable frequency (AMD SmartShift), along with an insane I/O and SSD? I could be completely wrong, but it feels obvious that the PS5 is designed around their next generation PSVR. Other things like the "Tempest" engine, haptic feedback and adaptive triggers in DualSense, hell, even the look of the PS5 takes inspiration from the PSVR headset. I hope I'm right here cause if Sony makes a much bigger push for VR this time around I'm in. Sony could position themselves as the definitive VR company.
 
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