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[ethomaz]

Apparently no one knows for sure what that chipset does since the PS5 is the only device using it so far, but the previous chips with similar model numbers on the PS4 and PS4 Pro were Displayport->HDMI converters, meaning the original source is still the SoC with DP output. Hence the console being dependent on a firmware update to achieve an output with higher bandwidth.

Yeap... the PS4 and PS4 Pro chips are Panasonic chipset (Nuvoton subsidiary) too.
They share similar models numbers.

MN864739 (PS5)
MN86471A (PS4)
MN864729 (PS4 Slim / PS4 Pro)

PS5 HDMI chipset is numbered 10 numbers highers than PS4 Slim/Pro HDMI chipset.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sure but I said I've not experienced any,not that it doesn't exist. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish here

 

[thebigmanjosh]

I’m not sure if anyone is holding out daily for these updates but don’t be surprised if it’s next month: https://electronics.sony.com/bravia-gaming

Software updates on both PlayStation®5 and BRAVIA are required, and will be available by end of January 2022.

 

[twilo99]

Wut?

VRR is not part of RDNA2.
It is mandatory on HDMI 2.1.

In fact AMD GCN 2 and forward cards can support to it.

I didn't bro, hence the question mark..

Thank you!

 

[dotnotbot]

VRR is not mandatory for HDMI 2.1. It's a weird standard where every feature is optional. Sony Z8H has HDMI 2.1 without VRR for example (and there are no plans that it will ever get it).

 

[Mr Moose]

I didn't bro, hence the question mark..

Thank you!

FreeSync is AMDs VRR solution, I am hoping the PS5 will support it, because my new 165hz monitor has it lol.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I have a small hope that they stick Freesync in there despite only mentioning VRR. The difference being that quite a few monitors were Freesync before VRR became part of the HDMI 2.1.


1440p support would also be nice...

 

[ethomaz]

VRR is not mandatory for HDMI 2.1. It's a weird standard where every feature is optional. Sony Z8H has HDMI 2.1 without VRR for example (and there are no plans that it will ever get it).

Is it not mandatory?
I thought it was optional in HDMI 2.0 but mandatory in 2.1.

Edit - I checked the specification and seems like all new features are optional... that is a terrible thing for us customers... good for the manufacturers devices that can do what they want the way they want.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Is it not mandatory?
I thought it was optional in HDMI 2.0 but mandatory in 2.1.

Edit - I checked the specification and seems like all new features are optional... that is a terrible thing for us customers... good for the manufacturers devices that can do what they want the way they want.

It's still mandatory for the PS5 after they confirmed the feature in plenty of marketing and tech specs publications when the console released a year ago.

PS5: The Ultimate FAQ

Everything you want to know about PlayStation 5, all in one place.

blog.playstation.com

 

[RoadHazard]

I have a small hope that they stick Freesync in there despite only mentioning VRR. The difference being that quite a few monitors were Freesync before VRR became part of the HDMI 2.1.


1440p support would also be nice...

Not likely any of those will ever happen. Sony wants you to connect your PS5 to a Sony TV, not a PC monitor.

 

[twilo99]

FreeSync is AMDs VRR solution, I am hoping the PS5 will support it, because my new 165hz monitor has it lol.

Yes, 165hz is .. glorious.

Just remember that the PS5 is extremely unlikely to hit 165fps in any game, so you wouldn't be able to take full advantage, but VRR and ~120fps/hz is also really good and much better than 60hz.

AMD just updated their GPU drivers on PC to unlock what Halo can do and I've been playing at 165 FPS matching my monitor... its beautiful.

 

[BlvckFox]

We’ll see Kojima reveal Hassan as the latest in Artificial intelligence as his cybernetic sleeper cell that reveals Silent Hill before we get PS5 VRR.
and only then will you all be ashamed of your words and deeds.

 

[Kuranghi]

Why is everyone talking about flickering gamma, the main issue is raised black levels, the same as playing RE2/3R/7/8 without settings the black level to 0, it just looks wrong and defeats a major purpose of having a true FALD LCD or OLED. Thats why I make a big deal about VRRs current implementation, its not "defending Sony", it pointing out thats its broken.

Unless someone can point me to something that says they fixed that? I know LG added the menu to offset the issue but Vincent Teoh said that doesn't really fix it without introducing other issues and you need proper tools to avoid making the image worse rather than better.

If you don't notice its broken or it doesn't manifest for you then more power to you, enjoy your VRR, which is an amazing feature. A lot of people don't notice stutters in games and just play them constantly dropping frames, same with raised black levels, given 90% of people have played RE2/3R/7/8 with raised blacks since its the default setting and even if you follow the instructions they are wrong so you wouldn't set it to 0 based on what they tell you.

 

[BreakOut]

Where is the thank fucking G-d button on the keyboard?

 

[rofif]

Why is everyone talking about flickering gamma, the main issue is raised black levels, the same as playing RE2/3R/7/8 without settings the black level to 0, it just looks wrong and defeats a major purpose of having a true FALD LCD or OLED. Thats why I make a big deal about VRRs current implementation, its not "defending Sony", it pointing out thats its broken.

Unless someone can point me to something that says they fixed that? I know LG added the menu to offset the issue but Vincent Teoh said that doesn't really fix it without introducing other issues and you need proper tools to avoid making the image worse rather than better.

If you don't notice its broken or it doesn't manifest for you then more power to you, enjoy your VRR, which is an amazing feature. A lot of people don't notice stutters in games and just play them constantly dropping frames, same with raised black levels, given 90% of people have played RE2/3R/7/8 with raised blacks since its the default setting and even if you follow the instructions they are wrong so you wouldn't set it to 0 based on what they tell you.

Yeah I have it recorded because nobody never believes me.
On pc, you can switch resident evil 2 fps 60 to 120 and see how gamma changes with fps:
You can faintly see how background changes...

 

[Elios83]

I think there's a high chance it will be in the next big PS5 firmware update.
This thread title was a speculation based on Sony’s TVs update schedule and not strictly related to PS5.
In any case I definetly want to see what happens with the image quality on my TV because if colours become washed out or there are other issues I doubt that that I'm going to use it.
Also in general developers shouldn't have an excuse to release games with an unstable framerate.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why is everyone talking about flickering gamma, the main issue is raised black levels, the same as playing RE2/3R/7/8 without settings the black level to 0, it just looks wrong and defeats a major purpose of having a true FALD LCD or OLED. Thats why I make a big deal about VRRs current implementation, its not "defending Sony", it pointing out thats its broken.

Unless someone can point me to something that says they fixed that? I know LG added the menu to offset the issue but Vincent Teoh said that doesn't really fix it without introducing other issues and you need proper tools to avoid making the image worse rather than better.

If you don't notice its broken or it doesn't manifest for you then more power to you, enjoy your VRR, which is an amazing feature. A lot of people don't notice stutters in games and just play them constantly dropping frames, same with raised black levels, given 90% of people have played RE2/3R/7/8 with raised blacks since its the default setting and even if you follow the instructions they are wrong so you wouldn't set it to 0 based on what they tell you.

Possibly why there is such a long delay, knowing how anal Sony can be when it comes to IQ.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Is it not mandatory?
I thought it was optional in HDMI 2.0 but mandatory in 2.1.

Edit - I checked the specification and seems like all new features are optional... that is a terrible thing for us customers... good for the manufacturers devices that can do what they want the way they want.

Agreed. Defeats the purpose of standards a bit, when things aren't standard.

 

[Kuranghi]

Possibly why there is such a long delay, knowing how anal Sony can be when it comes to IQ.

Exactly, Sony is an anal-queen about IQ. Doesn't even touch the sides anymore at this point.

They do love to fuck things up as well for no reason though, like reducing the granularity of the slider for MEMC and Film Mode in their TVs.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Exactly, Sony is an anal-queen about IQ. Doesn't even touch the sides anymore at this point.

They do love to fuck things up as well for no reason though, like reducing the granularity of the slider for MEMC and Film Mode in their TVs.

They probably want to mitigate this as much as possible, and I also wouldn't be surprised if it's best experienced on their TVs with customizations to the firmware's as well.

 

[rapid32.5]

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Not likely any of those will ever happen. Sony wants you to connect your PS5 to a Sony TV, not a PC monitor.

First and foremost, Sony wants to make enough PS5 consoles to match demand within the next couple of years.

Only then will they worry about catering to the specific needs of a subset of people.
I don't think Sony is all that worried about gatekeeping features to their hardware ecossystem, though. Otherwise they wouldn't support e.g. standard USB Audio sound cards for headphones and speakers. Nor would they let Insomniac launch a 40FPS patch for Rift Apart that only works on 120Hz TVs, a feature that wouldn't be supported in the most popular HDMI 2.1 TVs from Sony until months later.

Whatever the reason is for Sony Interactive Entertainment not having released a firmware update to support VRR yet, I doubt it has anything to do with what Sony Visual Products is doing.
Sure, the Sony Corp subsidiares will often engage in cross-promotion as it makes sense to split the marketing bill, but SIE is way too big to wait for SVP to get compliance on their end.


People thought the same of the firmware that enabled M.2 drives, but turns out they were actually just optimizing the O.S. support cheaper 5500MB/s SSDs instead of just the initially suggested 7000+MB/s models.

 

[Topher]

Um....If you guys can stop replying to this thread so I can stop thinking there is news about PS5 VRR.....

 

[DeepEnigma]

People thought the same of the firmware that enabled M.2 drives, but turns out they were actually just optimizing the O.S. support cheaper 5500MB/s SSDs instead of just the initially suggested 7000+MB/s models.

Good point.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Um....If you guys can stop replying to this thread so I can stop thinking there is news about PS5 VRR.....

Sure.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I’m not sure if anyone is holding out daily for these updates but don’t be surprised if it’s next month: https://electronics.sony.com/bravia-gaming

Could possibly do it at the same time.

But this is for Sony's other HDMI 2.1 features they are re-naming to their own version and locking them behind only working on Bravia TVs lol (yay, thanks Sony!)

VRR they are going to have to support on all TVs because..... well.. that's what VRR is and they advertised it on the PS5 marketing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Um....If you guys can stop replying to this thread so I can stop thinking there is news about PS5 VRR.....

 

[ParaSeoul]

PS5 VRR update is in the Abandoned Real Time Demo I'm sure of it.

 

[Topher]

 

[Kuranghi]

You've brought this on yourself Mr. Grace.

 

[Kuranghi]

PS5 VRR update is in the Abandoned Real Time Demo I'm sure of it.

Thinking back to how atrocious the framerate was in the part with the gun model in the initial video makes this even funnier. It REALLY needed VRR, although I'm not sure VRR supports lows as low as 10fps.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Could possibly do it at the same time.

But this is for Sony's other HDMI 2.1 features they are re-naming to their own version and locking them behind only working on Bravia TVs lol (yay, thanks Sony!)

VRR they are going to have to support on all TVs because..... well.. that's what VRR is and they advertised it on the PS5 marketing.

I could've sworn they had VRR on that page or the announcement at some point. I know the Sony branded ALLM/HGIG updates already came, so I'm not sure what else would be coming by Jan. 2021 besides VRR

 

[ethomaz]

I’m not sure if anyone is holding out daily for these updates but don’t be surprised if it’s next month: https://electronics.sony.com/bravia-gaming

Just to be clear the 10 reference to that part...

Auto HDR Tone Mapping​

With Auto HDR Tone Mapping the HDR settings will be optimized instantly during your PS5™ console’s initial setup. Your PS5™ automatically recognizes individual BRAVIA XR TV models and selects the best HDR setting for your TV accordingly. So even in high contrast scenes, you’ll see the crucial details and colors in the brightest and darkest parts of the screen.10 2 11

BTW The Sony PR.

'Perfect for PlayStation®5' BRAVIA XR-exclusive Features

• Auto HDR Tone Mapping4: With Auto HDR Tone Mapping, the HDR settings will be optimized instantly during PS5 initial setup. The PS5 will automatically recognize individual BRAVIA XR TV models and select the best HDR setting for the TV accordingly. With the optimized HDR tone mapping level to customers' BRAVIA display specification, they'll see crucial details and colors even in high contrast scenes. For instance, users will get the addition of detailed objects on the track in Gran Turismo™ 75,6 so they know just how to make their next move.
• Auto Genre Picture Mode4,7: BRAVIA XR TVs can detect whether users are playing a game or watching movies and shows. With Auto Genre Picture Mode, the TV automatically switches into Game Mode when gaming, which minimizes input lag to make the action more responsive, or to Standard Mode when watching movies via a streaming service or from an Ultra HD Blu-ray™ disc on the PS5, which shifts focus to picture processing for a more expressive picture.
  
  Software updates, available by the end of January 2022, on both PS5 and BRAVIA XR TVs are required to access Auto HDR Tone Mapping and Auto Genre Picture Mode.4

It doesn't say anything about VRR.

 

[Skifi28]

PS5 VRR update is in the Abandoned Real Time Demo I'm sure of it.

Yeah, unless VRR is announced by Hasan, I don't believe anything.

 

[A.Romero]

Agreed. Defeats the purpose of standards a bit, when things aren't standard.

While it is confusing, the standard is mostly related to bandwidth. The way the bandwidth is used will vary from device to device.

It's like knowing you HDMI ports and cables support 1080P but the panel supports 720P only. There was probably confusing the HD/Full HD standards and the way all those accessories where sold, i.e. expecting a Full HD cable would carry a 1080P signal from a console to a 720P TV. The capable is capable, the console is capable, the HDMI port in the TV most likely is capable but the panel can't display it at that resolution.

Sucks specially now that things are more and more complex...

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah, unless VRR is announced by Hasan, I don't believe anything.

Actually Hasan's app will unlock VRR.

 

[base]

If it takes so much time for Sony to properly implement VRR in the console then I assume it would be better to just leave it as it is. Knowing Sony, it would affect some other things like colors or something else. Someone here using a Samsung tv with Game Plus Mode? It makes 30 fps to look more like 60 fps but affects colors - they are washed out.

 

[kyliethicc]

I still don't get the appeal of console gaming with unlocked inconsistent framerates.

It makes sense in the PC space, since settings allow for changing FPS ranges, but for a console? Nah. Just gimme locked a 60 with V-sync. If the game drops frames, fix it. Don't just tell me fuck up my TV's IQ with VRR. Gonna become an excuse for shitty console performance. A "120 Hz mode" will actually average like 95 FPS. Smh.

 

[rofif]

I made another quick video to demonstrate oled vrr gamma/"flicker"
Here you can see. xbox app UI elements run at 20 or 40fps. So the vrr goes from 120 to 40hz. this results in gamma change. Most visible on grey, near black shades.
That's why there is a toggle in nvidia control panel "use for full screen" and use for "windowed app also".
But it works like that in every game on oled. When the fps is around 70 and goes around that, you don't see any flicker but it proves that the image is indeed a bit washed out compared to 120hz.


Seeing that - I have no idea how the TV behaves without VRR. is 60hz fixed non vrr output... always bad gamma compared to 120hz one ? so does ps5 always essentially look wrong ?!
I 10x more wish there was a way to display ps5 always at 120hz, no matter if gameruns 30, 40 or 60

 

[8BiTw0LF]

I have a small hope that they stick Freesync in there despite only mentioning VRR. The difference being that quite a few monitors were Freesync before VRR became part of the HDMI 2.1.


1440p support would also be nice...

In mid 2020 I bought a 27" 1440p/165hz monitor because I thought the PS5 would support it.
In november 2020 I pre-ordered the Eve Spectrum 4K, cause I couldn't wait for Sony to get their act together.
I feel your pain, but I don't think Sony gives a fuck about monitor users. They're way too mainstream oriented.

 

[mitchman]

I assume you did some calibration to the TV (like rtings.com suggestions). Have you spent time enabling and disabling VRR in games where framerate fluctuates and checked gamma levels in the image? That and flickers are what tends to annoy me.

Calibrating game mode? Not sure that's worthwhile or even possible, I think a lot of that stuff is disabled in game mode. Do you have an OLED and run VRR on it, and does it bother you? If it doesn't bother me, why should I test disabling and enabled it etc. ?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Since this topic turned into Sony TV's I have a question about playing 30fps games in them.
I have a crappy hisense 4k TV where those games run with no stuttering...but on my Sony XH90 it's almost unplayable.
So far almost all games I'm been playing are 60fps so it doesn't bother me but damn when it's something 30fps it almost hurts my eyes.
I changed some stuff about motionflow and it helped a bit.

Any more advices on this?

Before someone says I'm just used at 60fps and it takes time to adjust: I have no issues if I play those 30fps games on my old 4k hisense.
Thank you in advance guys!

 

[azertydu91]

Since this topic turned into Sony TV's I have a question about playing 30fps games in them.
I have a crappy hisense 4k TV where those games run with no stuttering...but on my Sony XH90 it's almost unplayable.
So far almost all games I'm been playing are 60fps so it doesn't bother me but damn when it's something 30fps it almost hurts my eyes.
I changed some stuff about motionflow and it helped a bit.

Any more advices on this?

Before someone says I'm just used at 60fps and it takes time to adjust: I have no issues if I play those 30fps games on my old 4k hisense.
Thank you in advance guys!

Do you have any picture enhancement activated like motion flow or clear picture?
Most of the time they need to be deactivated for gaming.
I also have an xh90 (an xh9096 to be specific) and to me 30fps play like they always have.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Do you have any picture enhancement activated like motion flow or clear picture?
Most of the time they need to be deactivated for gaming.
I also have an xh90 (an xh9096 to be specific) and to me 30fps play like they always have.

That's exactly the same model I have. If it's not too much trouble can you post your picture settings for gaming? You're probably using the Game mode right? Did you make any changes from the standard config?

 

[azertydu91]

That's exactly the same model I have. If it's not too much trouble can you post your picture settings for gaming? You're probably using the Game mode right? Did you make any changes from the standard config?

Everything is written in french so I'll just post what my settings are just bare in mind that the luminosity will be too low but my girlfriend is photosensitive, so adjust the brightness as you want.
I'll try to translate as best as I can but if you have some doubts i'll go over them sequentially, hoping is it the same in every language.
my settings are for the game mode:
luminosity 5
contrast 90
gamma0
black level 50
black settings no
enhanced contrast non
local dimin low
extended dynamix range no
color 55
shade 0
color temp expert 1
natural color no
sharpness 50
reality creation no
random noise reduction no
digital noise reduction no
motion flow no
movie mode no
hdr mode auto
and all the rest was predefined.

I think what should work best for you is to try to tweak with motionflow since it interpolate frame it can give a feeling of stutters.
If all of that still makes it painful to play 30 fps games maybe check for update or reset it.
That being said my pc is plugged to this TV too and I can feel much more the difference between 30 and 60, since the screen refreshes at the rate of the video I can always tell when I'm watching a 30 fps video on how my mouse looks.It may be due to the moving pixels resolution i'm not sure how it is called in english.

 

[Kuranghi]

That's exactly the same model I have. If it's not too much trouble can you post your picture settings for gaming? You're probably using the Game mode right? Did you make any changes from the standard config?

I think on Hisense the game mode toggle can be applied to any picture mode, so you can add motion interpolation to Game mode, whereas on the Sony you need to go to a specific picture mode where motion interpolation isn't available. So maybe thats why 30fps looks smoother for you on your Hisense.

You could get the motion interpolation on the Sony by going to another picture mode but input lag will increase a lot, but if what I said above is correct then I think if you didn't notice the increased lag on the Hisense when the motion stuff is on you won't notice it on the Sony either.

TL;DR - Switch the Sony out of the Game picture mode to Custom or Cinema or whatever and increase the "Smoothing/Smoothness" slider found under Motion until it looks as smooth as the Hisense for you. If you were already not in Game picture mode then just do the latter.

edit - Also whats differing between the Hisense and Sony display setup? Is it the same PC and you are switching the cable over or is this two completely different PC setups connected to the two displays respectively? If the latter then its probably more a PC setup/game settings issue imo.

 

[StateofMajora]

As far as I know that's because most of them use V-sync. Downside is a notable increase in input lag.

For triple buffered v sync there is some extra lag but the best v sync is a double buffer that never dips under the target fps. See Mega man 11 switch (double) vs. Ps4 (triple)

VRR is better than vsync.

Unless it’s crazy wild unstable I still wouldn't care about vrr even if it DID work correctly ; you can’t use bfi with vrr which automatically makes it moot in my mind. Plus you have the raised blacks, disabled local dimming on fald lcd sets etc etc… and yet VRR is the thing people want to cry about with Sony tvs.

Just crap.

Exactly, Sony is an anal-queen about IQ. Doesn't even touch the sides anymore at this point.

They do love to fuck things up as well for no reason though, like reducing the granularity of the slider for MEMC and Film Mode in their TVs.

Preach. Bring back the 5 intensity settings for motion smoothing and extra picture presets from x1/extreme tvs, Sony.

You'd think they'd want to add options, not take them away esp. when the hardware itself is also getting downgraded! I mean geez why do they do this shit.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Everything is written in french so I'll just post what my settings are just bare in mind that the luminosity will be too low but my girlfriend is photosensitive, so adjust the brightness as you want.
I'll try to translate as best as I can but if you have some doubts i'll go over them sequentially, hoping is it the same in every language.
my settings are for the game mode:
luminosity 5
contrast 90
gamma0
black level 50
black settings no
enhanced contrast non
local dimin low
extended dynamix range no
color 55
shade 0
color temp expert 1
natural color no
sharpness 50
reality creation no
random noise reduction no
digital noise reduction no
motion flow no
movie mode no
hdr mode auto
and all the rest was predefined.

I think what should work best for you is to try to tweak with motionflow since it interpolate frame it can give a feeling of stutters.
If all of that still makes it painful to play 30 fps games maybe check for update or reset it.
That being said my pc is plugged to this TV too and I can feel much more the difference between 30 and 60, since the screen refreshes at the rate of the video I can always tell when I'm watching a 30 fps video on how my mouse looks.It may be due to the moving pixels resolution i'm not sure how it is called in english.

Thank you so much for your help and for giving yourself the trouble to translate everything. I'll be able to test this during the weekend and i'll give you some feeedback later.

I think on Hisense the game mode toggle can be applied to any picture mode, so you can add motion interpolation to Game mode, whereas on the Sony you need to go to a specific picture mode where motion interpolation isn't available. So maybe thats why 30fps looks smoother for you on your Hisense.

You could get the motion interpolation on the Sony by going to another picture mode but input lag will increase a lot, but if what I said above is correct then I think if you didn't notice the increased lag on the Hisense when the motion stuff is on you won't notice it on the Sony either.

TL;DR - Switch the Sony out of the Game picture mode to Custom or Cinema or whatever and increase the "Smoothing/Smoothness" slider found under Motion until it looks as smooth as the Hisense for you. If you were already not in Game picture mode then just do the latter.

edit - Also whats differing between the Hisense and Sony display setup? Is it the same PC and you are switching the cable over or is this two completely different PC setups connected to the two displays respectively? If the latter then its probably more a PC setup/game settings issue imo.

Sigh...missing those days you could just hook up a damn console to a TV and that's it. Either that or i'm just picky as an adult, lmao.
If the post i quoted before yours doesn't work i'll try this and see what works the best for sure.
Thanks!

 

[Rikku-X]

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think I've played a game in the last 5 years on console with screen tearing

PS SDK recommend all games to have VSync... very few doesn't have because they don't follow the recomendations.
That is why you rarely see screen tearing in PS games.

Edit - dotnotbot I quoted you by mistake... sorry for the notification.