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PSA: Don't use 444 chroma or RGB Full with LG OLEDs (and other TVs as well)

TrebleShot

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Lol everytime in log online I see a new "best settings" for the LG CX/C9.

So I have a C9 with PC mode enabled will disable it.

The other thing I've been tinkering with is black level started with PS5 AUTO/TV AUTO moved to PS5 LIMITED/TV Low watched a Vincent video and he said PS5 AUTO/TV AUTO is best so now it back to that.

I just want the best picture possible with the correct settings.

Also saw some people suggesting you shouldn't use HGIG on the TV, you absolutely should no matter the HDR content and if a game supports it or not. If you don't and use DTM your TV will double process the HDR signal = crushed colouring with the appearance of it being "brighter".

Another one to throw in the mix, anyone using BFI, I used it on my PS4 and it doe make things less blurry in motion.

Not on PS5 yet anyone have any thoughts?
 
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Venuspower

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Yes, because I confirmed it by using a test pattern.

Here are two images of my TV displaying a gradient test pattern (one in the dark, one with light. I could not decide which is better :D):


Both pictures were taken with a OnePlus 6T. So of course not perfect. But it should be fine for a quick and dirty example. My PS4 is outputting in 4K@60@RGB with 4K Video Transfer Rate set to Auto. Which means that the PS5 is outputting 444. I enabled the PC label on the C9 and confirmed that the TV displays by 444 using a test pattern.

If you are looking closelyat the bottom half of the TV you can actually spot very minimal banding while the top half looks perfect. This was to be expected, because the bottom half of this test pattern is 8 Bit, while the top half is 10 bit. This also does not change when setting the label to "console".

To add some more examples:

This is how PC mode on a LG C9 looks like with Video Transfer Rate set to -1 and HDR turned on (= PS5 uses 4:2:2 Chroma Subsampling and therefore falls back to TMDS):


Notice that ugly color banding? Yes. That is what you are getting when you are using HDR with the PC Label
with a device that does not support FRL (e.g. every HDMI 2.0b device like the PS4 PRO or RTX 2080 Ti).

This is how it looks like when you are using 4K Tranfer Rate "Auto". Which means that the PS5 now outputs at 444, thus requiring to use FRL.


Much better, right? Yes. That is how this image should look like. The only thing we changed is the method
the PS5 uses to output the image (FRL instead of TMDS). Before you ask: Yes, below the Astro's Playroom Icon there is still a tiny imperfection. But I guess this is baked into the image. Probably artifacts that were introduced after the compression of the image.

Now let us see how both images compare to the console label:



Much better than the first image. But basically no difference between the image where FRL is used. In real life I cannot see any difference at all. You might see some slight differences on these images. But they are most likely caused by my camera. Which means that the last two images basically look the same.

So what does that tell us?
The first thing to note for LG OLED owners: This issue is present if:
- HDR is turned on (in SDR you should not have any issues whatsoever)
- PC Label is selected
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.0(a|b) (e.g. PS4 PRO/RTX 2080).
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.1, but it does not use FRL for some settings and therefore falls back to TMDS.

tl;dr If you are using a device like PS4 PRO/RTX 2080 do not use the PC Label for HDR.
On PC you might want to use it in SDR. But avoid it for HDR content.

If you are using a PS5, RTX 2080 Ti or something similar that will output stuff using FRL
you are fine and can use the PC Label even in HDR.
 
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but old tvs Game mode have less input lag, Samsung TVs for example.
Not all. I have an old Samsung that has 1 frame less lag on PC mode. PC mode also disables a bunch of processing that gamemode doesn't, like sharpening, which can't be completely removed otherwise (it still does sharpening even with the slider at 0).
 

Fake

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Not all. I have an old Samsung that has 1 frame less lag on PC mode. PC mode also disables a bunch of processing that gamemode doesn't, like sharpening, which can't be completely removed otherwise (it still does sharpening even with the slider at 0).

I have three TVs in my house.

Samsung 4K40JU6000, Sony Bravia 40WE and Bravia 55 old model, so both of them run at a lower input lag on PC over Game Mode.

I already contact Samsung and Sony support (email and phone)and both said this was fixed by recent models. I don't have a proper equipament to do it so, but SF4 really responds very quick in Game Mode.

Maybe was the 'year of console gaming' when those TVs was manufacture so must of the brands get focus on Game Mode over PC mode.

Will vary between modes. PC not always disable processing mind you. Some Samsung TVs put the sharpness around 50 when using PC, others already putting 0 to sharpness, but don't make much sense either because 50 sharpness on PC mode is equal to 0 on Game mode, so lower than 50 you start to get a blurry image.

There still loads of picture process that can be turned ON (dynamic brightness, energy saving), unlike on Game Mode most of them turn into grey and you can't turn ON.
Again, I using my TV as an example, most of the recent Samsungs TVs already solve that.
 

Tygeezy

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In case of LG, PC mode has the same input lag as Game mode. The only difference is that PC mode allows 444 chroma so small text will be sharper but at the expense of color banding.
Actually this is incorrect. I did my own input lag tests and pc mode consistently had lower input lag on my lg c9. Hdmi input icon being labeled “console” vs “pc.”

I use the iPhone app “is it snappy?” And bind actions to my caps lock key and count frames after led lights up.

The game tested was valorant at 1440 p 120 hz gsync plus vsync enabled in nvidia control panel and 115 FPS framerate cap.

 
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sn0man

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How do you engage "PC" mode on the CX? I see game mode and other modes but not PC mode. Is there a debug toggle I need to set somewhere?.

FWIW I am just using "Game" for my PS4 Pro (and all my game consoles) and I'm using like ISF Darkroom or some settings I found on AVSForums for my Apple TV where I watch stuff. I figured I would use HDMI Full for the PS4 Pro, and HDMI limited for my Switch, WiiU, xbox 360, and PS3 through an HDMI switcher. I was also going to hook up a PC with a GTX 1080 and set it to game mode with HDMI Full. Am I thinking this through wrong? I kind of dislike how there is no "best" setup for these things.
 
Dec 14, 2008
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This OP is highly misleading. Samsung TVs have properly supported RGB 4:4:4 in their PC Mode perfectly for years now. So have Sony. This seems like an LG problem to me, probably with their image processor hardware.
 
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Tygeezy

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How do you engage "PC" mode on the CX? I see game mode and other modes but not PC mode. Is there a debug toggle I need to set somewhere?.

FWIW I am just using "Game" for my PS4 Pro (and all my game consoles) and I'm using like ISF Darkroom or some settings I found on AVSForums for my Apple TV where I watch stuff. I figured I would use HDMI Full for the PS4 Pro, and HDMI limited for my Switch, WiiU, xbox 360, and PS3 through an HDMI switcher. I was also going to hook up a PC with a GTX 1080 and set it to game mode with HDMI Full. Am I thinking this through wrong? I kind of dislike how there is no "best" setup for these things.
Long press the input button on remote, go to edit, click on hdmi device and scroll down until you get to pc.
 

Reallink

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Actually this is incorrect. I did my own input lag tests and pc mode consistently had lower input lag on my lg c9. Hdmi input icon being labeled “console” vs “pc.”

I use the iPhone app “is it snappy?” And bind actions to my caps lock key and count frames after led lights up.

The game tested was valorant at 1440 p 120 hz gsync plus vsync enabled in nvidia control panel and 115 FPS framerate cap.


Your results are inconsistent with the Leo Bodnar, Murideo, and RTing's custom lag testing devices. One device or outlet could reasonably be called into question, but 3 would be very debatable. In all instances it measured ~13-14ms @ 60Hz in both Game AND PC modes, and ~6-7ms in 120Hz.
 
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Tygeezy

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Your results are inconsistent with the Leo Bodnar, Murideo, and RTing's custom lag testing devices. One device or outlet could reasonably be called into question, but 3 would be very debatable. In all instances it measured ~13-14ms @ 60Hz in both Game AND PC modes, and ~6-7ms in 120Hz.
My test isn’t the most accurate for actual numbers, it is however consistent and valid for testing different games and different settings. My numbers are lower than they should be because each frame is 4 ms and the caps lock display lighting up has some lag too. With enough samples and using the same method you can get very good comparison results.

I stand by pc mode having less input latency, just don’t take the numbers as absolute value. It isn’t a huge disparity. It’s probably something like 5-10 ms overall, but it is lower and the better option for gaming. I wouldn’t use it for media playback though.
 
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Reallink

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My test isn’t the most accurate for actual numbers, it is however consistent and valid for testing different games and different settings. My numbers are lower than they should be because each frame is 4 ms and the caps lock display lighting up has some lag too.

I stand by pc mode having less input latency, just don’t take the numbers as absolute value.

Right, but I mean RTings for example did not record any difference between Game Mode and PC Mode, they were both 13.xms. If you're using a PC or Mac as the source, I would suspect you're documenting a similar issue that the old cloned Laptop timer method faced. Due to oddities with OS level Vsync, triple buffering, and prerendered frame buffers, you would often record different results (a seemingly better or worse "average) every time you plugged/unplugged the HDMI cable or Win + P'ed between monitors/cloning. I would guess that when the TV resyncs/rehandshakes as you switch between the PC and Console labels, you are by chance landing on one of the lower averages. This is why the cloned timer method was abandoned, the results were inconsistent and could vary on the same setup every time you plugged it in.

Another explanation is that since you're testing Gsync at a 115 cap, that could explain the different result. You should try turning off Gsync and the limit and seeing what you record at raw 120. It could be that VRR or Gsync functions better in PC mode.
 
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Tygeezy

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Right, but I mean RTings for example did not record any difference between Game Mode and PC Mode, they were both 13.xms. If you're using a PC or Mac as the source, I would suspect you're documenting a similar issue that the old cloned Laptop timer method faced. Due to oddities with OS level Vsync, triple buffering, and prerendered frame buffers, you would often record different results (a seemingly better or worse "average) every time you plugged/unplugged the HDMI cable or Win + P'ed between monitors/cloning. I would guess that when the TV resyncs/rehandshakes as you switch between the PC and Console labels, you are by chance landing on one of the lower averages. This is why the cloned timer method was abandoned, the results were inconsistent and could vary on the same setup every time you plugged it in.

Another explanation is that since you're testing Gsync at a 115 cap, that could explain the different result. You should try turning off Gsync and the limit and seeing what you record at raw 120. It could be that VRR or Gsync functions better in PC mode.
I tend to think that variable refresh rate in general performs better in pc mode on these TVs . White pulsing artifacts tend to happen with variable refresh rate that rears its ugly head in games that have I do stutter issues like borderlands 3. It seemed to be less of an issue using pc mode.

Im not really sure why the results are lower in pc mode. However 120 FPS without vsync gives you frame tearing, 120 FPS plus vsync gives you added latency and 115 FPS with vsync gives you frame repeats (stutter). Variable refresh rate with a cap below the refresh rate ceilinghas always been optimal for both input latency, removal of stutter, and removal of frame tearing.
 
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Whitecrow

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To add some more examples:

This is how PC mode on a LG C9 looks like with Video Transfer Rate set to -1 and HDR turned on (= PS5 uses 4:2:2 Chroma Subsampling and therefore falls back to TMDS):


Notice that ugly color banding? Yes. That is what you are getting when you are using HDR with the PC Label
with a device that does not support FRL (e.g. every HDMI 2.0b device like the PS4 PRO or RTX 2080 Ti).

This is how it looks like when you are using 4K Tranfer Rate "Auto". Which means that the PS5 now outputs at 444, thus requiring to use FRL.


Much better, right? Yes. That is how this image should look like. The only thing we changed is the method
the PS5 uses to output the image (FRL instead of TMDS). Before you ask: Yes, below the Astro's Playroom Icon there is still a tiny imperfection. But I guess this is baked into the image. Probably artifacts that were introduced after the compression of the image.

Now let us see how both images compare to the console label:



Much better than the first image. But basically no difference between the image where FRL is used. In real life I cannot see any difference at all. You might see some slight differences on these images. But they are most likely caused by my camera. Which means that the last two images basically look the same.

So what does that tell us?
The first thing to note for LG OLED owners: This issue is present if:
- HDR is turned on (in SDR you should not have any issues whatsoever)
- PC Label is selected
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.0(a|b) (e.g. PS4 PRO/RTX 2080).
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.1, but it does not use FRL for some settings and therefore falls back to TMDS.

tl;dr If you are using a device like PS4 PRO/RTX 2080 do not use the PC Label for HDR.
On PC you might want to use it in SDR. But avoid it for HDR content.

If you are using a PS5, RTX 2080 Ti or something similar that will output stuff using FRL
you are fine and can use the PC Label even in HDR.

So to summarize, HDMI 2.0 doesnt have the necessary bandwith to output HDR 444 and it subsamples to 422, so if you force your TV to 444 (PC mode), banding will appear.
But with newest consoles and GPUs with updated HDMI versions, output at HDR 444 is posible, you just need to match console and TV settings.

I wanna explain further in words what Kuranghi Kuranghi (thanks btw for all the interesting links you are provinding : ) )posted about how chroma subsampling affects the image:
4:2:2 - Skips color every two pixels horizontally, in each horizontal line
4:2:0 - Skips color every two pixels horizontally and vertically
So, even if luma information avoids the total duplication of a pixel, the hue/tone of skipped pixels can be totally off.

Theorically, if games are made with this specifications, there's nothing to lose, but if they are made with 444 chroma sampling, we are getting a slighly less accurate image.
Anyways, just like we are talking in this thread, every dev is a different world.

This is now more theory than anything, just to get some discussion/understanding out there, since no devs or artists never come here to expose truths.
 
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Kuranghi

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edit - I'm not sure about this now, so what I wrote might have been bullshit lol, I've removed it and I will investigate further and write a new post soon.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Here's a very nice explanation why you shouldn't use PC mode when playing games on LG OLEDs - it introduces visible banding because TVs processing is simly not designed to operate with this kind of signal. Standard for movie industry is "Limited" range and YCbCr color space (420/422 chroma).


CORRECTION: Seems like it works well with PS5 and other (all of them?) HDMI 2.1 devices https://www.neogaf.com/threads/psa-...-and-other-tvs-as-well.1579269/post-261320149

CORRECTION #2: that "and other TVs as well" in the thread title might be unnecessary, I think the best thing to do is test it by yourself, switching between PC mode on/off with this test pattern https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68jIlCvW85gWFp0NVUwTFdTNFE/view and in some games if you see banding


That says it's 8-bit mostly, nothing to do with 4:4:4 as you can get up to 12-bit (10-bit on current TV's). Most monitors are 8-bit panels AFAIK.
 

sn0man

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I feel like every generation hdmi full bandwidth vs limited bandwidth becomes a debate and there is one sure way to leave it at limited on both tv and console. That’s great but if you’re aware of such settings you’re also aware that technically though not perceptibly full is more color information than limited. Therefore you know the way it’ll mostly just work but you know it could be technically better.

TL;DR: it’s a nerd trap — I’m guilty of it.
 
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Troglodyte

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Ive been using PC mode on my Series X and PS5 without issues on my CX and C9 ever since Vincent put out that video regarding the best Series X settings. Haven't had any issues yet or noticed any problems.
 

Connxtion

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Ive been using PC mode on my Series X and PS5 without issues on my CX and C9 ever since Vincent put out that video regarding the best Series X settings. Haven't had any issues yet or noticed any problems.
A was getting stutters on COD at 120hz 😩 when panning/looking about it juddered.

60hz no issue, seems this wasn’t fixed for VRR/Freesync just g-sync 😭

So it’s HDR 10b 420 for me just now. Note, auto HDR causes banding so that’s disabled also.
 

Whitecrow

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Tested the greyscale on PC mode (LG C9) and for my disappointment, banding is bad.
Seems like there's still work to be done on TVs regarding to Full RGB 444 input. Sad : (
 

Masterbrew

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rofl, great PSA. “DONT drink red wine!! Edit: actually I’ve just learned it’s safe to drink red wine”
 

Kuranghi

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So to summarize, HDMI 2.0 doesnt have the necessary bandwith to output HDR 444 and it subsamples to 422, so if you force your TV to 444 (PC mode), banding will appear.
But with newest consoles and GPUs with updated HDMI versions, output at HDR 444 is posible, you just need to match console and TV settings.

I wanna explain further in words what Kuranghi Kuranghi (thanks btw for all the interesting links you are provinding : ) )posted about how chroma subsampling affects the image:
4:2:2 - Skips color every two pixels horizontally, in each horizontal line
4:2:0 - Skips color every two pixels horizontally and vertically
So, even if luma information avoids the total duplication of a pixel, the hue/tone of skipped pixels can be totally off.

Theorically, if games are made with this specifications, there's nothing to lose, but if they are made with 444 chroma sampling, we are getting a slighly less accurate image.
Anyways, just like we are talking in this thread, every dev is a different world.

This is now more theory than anything, just to get some discussion/understanding out there, since no devs or artists never come here to expose truths.

This all sounds really good way to break it down but I would like to add that the green colour doesn't have its res reduced in the same way as the blue and red channels. The Luma channel contains the green information as well as the brightness info, and its gotten back by subtracting the Chroma blue and Chroma red (Cb, Cr) information from the Luma channel, so even though the Luma channel isn't ever decreased in resolution (Always 4 in 444, 422, 420, etc) you'd think the green is unaffected but since its made from subtraction and those channels are reduced in res it does affect the green channel.

More info here:


Not sure how the difference manifests in reality, if the green is just as degraded as the red and blue, or less so, but thought maybe it would be relevant to or help someone out.
 

Whitecrow

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Well, after some testing, this is how I will be running my C9:
Limited RGB and PC Mode

I think is the best compromise. In PC mode, the extra banding in games are harder to find than on the test pattern, and I'm willing to sacrifice a little bading here and there for the extra pixel definition.
And just like OP says, PC Mode + Full RGB completely fucks the TV, so fuck it.
 

Riven326

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:pie_eyeroll:

It's so simple. Use game mode with RGB set to limited, which is the default. Done. You don't need to do anything else except enable HDR if your set supports it.

Only use full RGB when you're using a pc monitor as a display. That's why it's there, for compatibility purposes. It is not there tho be used with televisions. The default output on modern televisions and game are almost always correct.

That's the point of HDMI, especially 2.1. It's something that engineers have been trying to make as simple as possible because people are fucking stupid and will use the incorrect settings because they look at labels like "full" and "limited" and assume that full is better and that they're missing out on something by choosing limited.
 

Whitecrow

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:pie_eyeroll:

It's so simple. Use game mode with RGB set to limited, which is the default. Done. You don't need to do anything else except enable HDR if your set supports it.

Only use full RGB when you're using a pc monitor as a display. That's why it's there, for compatibility purposes. It is not there tho be used with televisions. The default output on modern televisions and game are almost always correct.

That's the point of HDMI, especially 2.1. It's something that engineers have been trying to make as simple as possible because people are fucking stupid and will use the incorrect settings because they look at labels like "full" and "limited" and assume that full is better and that they're missing out on something by choosing limited.

Is not that simple.
Full RGB have more colors than limited, but less contrast. And in fact, since art is made on PCs with full RGB, full RGB is the most accurate to the source material.
Is up to each one to choose whatever they want, be it on a TV or a PC monitor.

The problem here is that some TVs like LG OLEDS for example, have awful implementations for some color encodings.
And Full RGB at 444 chroma is not anything outlandish, and I cant for the life of me understand how LG fucked that up on TVs that exceeds the 1000$ price point. That should be almost illegal.
 
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Riven326

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Is not that simple.
Full RGB have more colors than limited, but less contrast. And in fact, since art is made on PCs with full RGB, full RGB is the most accurate to the source material.
Is up to each one to choose whatever they want, be it on a TV or a PC monitor.

The problem here is that some TVs like LG OLEDS for example, have awful implementations for some color encodings.
And Full RGB at 444 chroma is not anything outlandish, and I cant for the life of me understand how LG fucked that up on TVs that exceeds the 1000$ price point. That should be almost illegal.
Your assumption is wrong.


 
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Delt31

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So what is the end result here? If I have a ps5 and an OLED C9, what do I put the tv on for the best settings? Right now I’m using game mode but NO PC mode - just normal label. Looks fine to me.
 
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Hawk269

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So what is the end result here? If I have a ps5 and an OLED C9, what do I put the tv on for the best settings? Right now I’m using game mode but NO PC mode - just normal label. Looks fine to me.
You want to put the HDMI to PC. The color banding use to be an issue on older sets and earlier firm ware. I have a C9 with both Series X and PS5 with the HDMI port renamed to PC and it has been perfect. Watch the HDTV Test video posted above...it explains it all.
 

Riven326

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So what is the end result here? If I have a ps5 and an OLED C9, what do I put the tv on for the best settings? Right now I’m using game mode but NO PC mode - just normal label. Looks fine to me.
Game mode with HDR enabled. Leave the PS5 settings alone. It defaults to automatic and those are the best settings. This pc mode nonsense can be ignored unless you intend to hook a pc up to your television. That's what it's for, hence the name.
 

Delt31

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You want to put the HDMI to PC. The color banding use to be an issue on older sets and earlier firm ware. I have a C9 with both Series X and PS5 with the HDMI port renamed to PC and it has been perfect. Watch the HDTV Test video posted above...it explains it all.

Do you use have mode too?
 

PerfectDark

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I grabbed a vizio oled looks amazing with anything in dolby vision for watching. Playing games it doesn't look any better then my $500 samsung qled 43".

So disappointed gaming in my Oled that I went back to my 43" and my 1440p 165hz monitor for fps.
 

DanEON

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To add some more examples:

This is how PC mode on a LG C9 looks like with Video Transfer Rate set to -1 and HDR turned on (= PS5 uses 4:2:2 Chroma Subsampling and therefore falls back to TMDS):


Notice that ugly color banding? Yes. That is what you are getting when you are using HDR with the PC Label
with a device that does not support FRL (e.g. every HDMI 2.0b device like the PS4 PRO or RTX 2080 Ti).

This is how it looks like when you are using 4K Tranfer Rate "Auto". Which means that the PS5 now outputs at 444, thus requiring to use FRL.


Much better, right? Yes. That is how this image should look like. The only thing we changed is the method
the PS5 uses to output the image (FRL instead of TMDS). Before you ask: Yes, below the Astro's Playroom Icon there is still a tiny imperfection. But I guess this is baked into the image. Probably artifacts that were introduced after the compression of the image.

Now let us see how both images compare to the console label:



Much better than the first image. But basically no difference between the image where FRL is used. In real life I cannot see any difference at all. You might see some slight differences on these images. But they are most likely caused by my camera. Which means that the last two images basically look the same.

So what does that tell us?
The first thing to note for LG OLED owners: This issue is present if:
- HDR is turned on (in SDR you should not have any issues whatsoever)
- PC Label is selected
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.0(a|b) (e.g. PS4 PRO/RTX 2080).
- You are using a source device with HDMI 2.1, but it does not use FRL for some settings and therefore falls back to TMDS.

tl;dr If you are using a device like PS4 PRO/RTX 2080 do not use the PC Label for HDR.
On PC you might want to use it in SDR. But avoid it for HDR content.

If you are using a PS5, RTX 2080 Ti or something similar that will output stuff using FRL
you are fine and can use the PC Label even in HDR.

This post sums it all. Basically, if you have an hdmi 2.1 signal, you can use PC mode.

In the same thread that OP linked, I posted some comparisons pictures between PC mode and Game Console mode, regarding chroma subsampling and color banding.

Chroma subsampling in game console mode:

Banding comparison between PC mode and Game Console mode :

 

Hawk269

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Sorry - typo.

Do you use Game Mode Too on top of the PC labeling? Right now I am using Game mode, no PC label.
Yes, I have Game Mode on and it labeled as PC. No issues. Games on PS5/Series X look fantastic. PC Label unlocks the 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling.
 

AceVader0

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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU......

I just tried the video and (when the Xbox Media Player on Series X is not crashing) there's always banding. I was using PC mode + Game Picture for 4:4:4, but even if I put it back on normal Game Mode there is always banding. Is my LG C9 faulty? Or is there anything I need to change? I put it back to PC mode in the mean time. I've got the settings from Vincent (HDTV Test).
 

Whitecrow

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May 7, 2018
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Game mode with HDR enabled. Leave the PS5 settings alone. It defaults to automatic and those are the best settings. This pc mode nonsense can be ignored unless you intend to hook a pc up to your television. That's what it's for, hence the name.
Stop this already.

If your brain havent updated for the last 7 years, consoles re the same as PCs. Same architechture and same hardware. With the possibility to output at Full or limited RGB, and with a BluRay Player that outputs default video mastering color encoding.

And for updating you a bit more still, hooking up the PC (HDMI 2.0 of my Radeon 5700XT) on PC Mode on the C9 have the exact same banding.
So the issue is in TVs end, having a hard time with 444 chroma, doesnt matter if its a console or a PC, only god knows why.

I've been testing this for hours and lots of times. You are free to keep telling me how wrong I am and posting links I'vre read 1000 times already. Nothing is gonna change this facts.
 

Riven326

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Stop this already.

If your brain havent updated for the last 7 years, consoles re the same as PCs. Same architechture and same hardware. With the possibility to output at Full or limited RGB, and with a BluRay Player that outputs default video mastering color encoding.

And for updating you a bit more still, hooking up the PC (HDMI 2.0 of my Radeon 5700XT) on PC Mode on the C9 have the exact same banding.
So the issue is in TVs end, having a hard time with 444 chroma, doesnt matter if its a console or a PC, only god knows why.

I've been testing this for hours and lots of times. You are free to keep telling me how wrong I am and posting links I'vre read 1000 times already. Nothing is gonna change this facts.
I never said you were wrong about the tv. However, it's only an issue if you need chroma 444. For most people, that's when they're using it as a PC display to make text look more readable.
 
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dotnotbot

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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU......

I just tried the video and (when the Xbox Media Player on Series X is not crashing) there's always banding. I was using PC mode + Game Picture for 4:4:4, but even if I put it back on normal Game Mode there is always banding. Is my LG C9 faulty? Or is there anything I need to change? I put it back to PC mode in the mean time. I've got the settings from Vincent (HDTV Test).

Nah, don't worry. LG OLEDs aren't perfect when it comes to native gradient handling. It's good enough to not cause any visible issues in normal content, in general on par with best TVs but definitely not perfect (no consumer set is perfect in this regard). I think that you can improve it with professional calibration but I'm not sure.

You should only check if PC modes makes it worse, don't sweat about those tiny random bands. In case of Series X PC mode should be safe because it's an HDMI 2.1 device.
 
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DarkestHour

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To confirm, the reason I see banding on my Vizio P65-F1 is because it only supporst HDMI 2.0 and can't do full 4:4:4? I noticed the PS5 video output information mentions it is only doing 4:2:2 due to bandwidth limitations of HDMI 2.0
 

AceVader0

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Nah, don't worry. LG OLEDs aren't perfect when it comes to native gradient handling. It's good enough to not cause any visible issues in normal content, in general on par with best TVs but definitely not perfect (no consumer set is perfect in this regard). I think that you can improve it with professional calibration but I'm not sure.

You should only check if PC modes makes it worse, don't sweat about those tiny random bands. In case of Series X PC mode should be safe because it's an HDMI 2.1 device.

I see. Thank you!
Then I'll leave it as it is. I checked out Kingdom Hearts 1.5 MIX (which looks amazing on AutoHDR) and I didn't see anything strange. I downloaded other gradient tests and tried them on my PC and in the TV's media player, and everything seemed... ok?

As for Series X, I just left it on Standard/Limited (not PC FULL RGB) and 8-bit (for SDR). Which according to HDTVTest video was fine, I think.
Thanks again!!
 

Whitecrow

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May 7, 2018
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To confirm, the reason I see banding on my Vizio P65-F1 is because it only supporst HDMI 2.0 and can't do full 4:4:4? I noticed the PS5 video output information mentions it is only doing 4:2:2 due to bandwidth limitations of HDMI 2.0
HDMI 2.0 have a bandwidth of 18 Gbps, and according to this:
4K 60 Hz 8bit 444 needs 17.84 Gbps, so it should be capable.

Anyways, I tested my C9 at 1080p with and HDMI 2.0 card to test if it was a bandwidth issue, and still have banding at 444
So, honestly, dont know. Maybe TVs just suck at 444 ¿?¿¿

The thing is, banding is mostly seen in the grey gradient test pattern, in games, is far far less noticeable.
Im playing FF 7 remake at Full RGB, PC Mode, and banding is nowhere to be seen.

But in Uncharted LL for example, I found a scene at the beggining, looking at the night sky, where it's indeed more notiecable in PC mode.

My mind is exhausted at this point.
 
Last edited:

DarkestHour

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Oct 27, 2015
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HDMI 2.0 have a bandwidth of 18 Gbps, and according to this:
4K 60 Hz 8bit 444 needs 17.84 Gbps, so it should be capable.

Anyways, I tested my C9 at 1080p with and HDMI 2.0 card to test if it was a bandwidth issue, and still have banding at 444
So, honestly, dont know. Maybe TVs just suck at 444 ¿?¿¿

The thing is, banding is mostly seen in the grey gradient test pattern, in games, is far far less noticeable.
Im playing FF 7 remake at Full RGB, PC Mode, and banding is nowhere to be seen.

But in Uncharted LL for example, I found a scene at the beggining, looking at the night sky, where it's indeed more notiecable in PC mode.

My mind is exhausted at this point.

Isn't HDR 10-bit color though? So that changes the bandwidth requirement for 444 to 20.05 Gbps.