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Psn Account hijacked! (Update: 6 months later, a winner is you!)

test_account

XP-39C²
How do you remove payment information from PSN? The website is a mess regarding that stuff. Super easy to add, impossible to remove.
Login to your SEN account at https://account.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com

Then click on the "account" tab, and then "billing information" in the menu to the left. Then click "edit". Here you can edit out the credit card information.

I havnt tried it myself, but i assume that it lets you save those changes.
 
I bought a PS4 game on PS Store yesterday or two days ago, then i got the option to pay with credit card or Paypal. I havnt seen that before. I dont know if it works in every country though, but it works for me at least.
Thanks for the info. I'll see when I get home and post an update.
 

Mesoian

Member
Login to your SEN account at https://account.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com

Then click on the "account" tab, and then "billing information" in the menu to the left. Then click "edit". Here you can edit out the credit card information.

I havnt tried it myself, but i assume that it lets you save those changes.

Nope, that doesn't do it. Doesn't save the information once you remove it, just refuses to save with unfinished fields.
 
Sony as a company is shit. They have fans that love them and think Sony actually gives a damn about them. Fact is, they're one of the worst and so is their customer service. Sony's customer service is some of the worst I've experienced. You can't trust Sony with your personal information. Their security for PSN/+ is horrible. Game offline and only play single player exclusives is my advice.
 

Mesoian

Member
Sony as a company is shit. They have fans that love them and think Sony actually gives a damn about them. Fact is, they're one of the worst and so is their customer service. Sony's customer service is some of the worst I've experienced. You can't trust Sony with your personal information. Their security for PSN/+ is horrible. Game offline and only play single player exclusives is my advice.

I'm ready to be at the point where, if I need to buy something on PSN, I'll just buy a prepaid card. I don't have much confidence in their system and the fact that I'm getting phishing scams every day on PSN now pretty much ensures that I don't want them to have my private info.
 
In an ideal world, an account provider should be held liable for any account fraud if they can't offer security standards to their users.

In 2015, it seems entirely reasonable to expect to find a kind of 2 step authentification on a service like PSN.
 

system11

Member
Why? Should they give back money just because you state your account was hacked? People could fraud Sony incredibly easy if that were the case. Nope. Also, of course your bank can't do a charge back. If you bought a book in a store, would your really expect your bank to be allowed to do a charge back, since the store is actually out an item. It's somewhat the same thing. A proper credit card, where you use actual credit, you won't be forced to pay for something you didn't use it for, but it's the credit card company that pays it. If you have a credit card that does charge back, you have a sucky credit card.

Wh .. what?

1) Sony would easily be able to tell if he's playing the purchased games on a console he doesn't own.
2) Sony are not out of pocket on a physical item, therefore there is nothing to return.
3) All major credit cards do *actual chargebacks* where the money is taken away from the card processor, you have to fill in a bit of paperwork but it's pretty easy. (This by the way is how you can force Paypal to refund you instead of working through their "well, we'll try to get your money back" dispute process.)
4) Distance selling rules in the UK would have allowed the OP to get a refund *for any reason* in the first 14 days.

It's ridiculous that Sony won't return fraudulenty spent money, especially given that all they've done is issue a digital license to someone which can just as easily be revoked. Oh, it was also illegal but we're past the 14 days now so I'm not sure what happens there.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Thanks for the info. I'll see when I get home and post an update.
No problem =) I bought it directly through my PS4, i'm unsure how it is when buying through the webshop.


Sony as a company is shit. They have fans that love them and think Sony actually gives a damn about them. Fact is, they're one of the worst and so is their customer service. Sony's customer service is some of the worst I've experienced. You can't trust Sony with your personal information. Their security for PSN/+ is horrible. Game offline and only play single player exclusives is my advice.
Thats not a very good advice, in my opinion. If you're afraid of getting your information leaked, then rather make a new email account that is only used for PSN and nothing else, use a long and complex password that is used nowhere else, and use pre-paid cards or Paypal as a payment method. I'm sure that its possible to write in a false name and adress too when registering a PSN account (i guess maybe this is against the TOS, but i hardly doubt that they verify every single name and adress). And if you want to be extreme, never log in to the PSN account on your computer in case you got a rootkit or keylogger installed.


Yeah, its really easy actually.

Oh and I was in love with Passionate Patti for years during my childhood. Lol
Hehe, Leisure Suit Larry 3 is one of my favorite game ever :) (my avatar is from the box art of Leisure Suit Larry 5 though, but i like that artwork of Passionate Patti better compared to the LSL3 box art).
 
This has happened to me before too...someone bought FIFA card packs at 3:38am with my account. (I don't, nor have ever owned a FIFA game). Not knowing the chargeback rule, I filed with my bank, and low and behold eventually had my account banned.


Ended up paying the ransom to Sony in order to get my account back. Sucked, but taught me the "don't leave a credit card on your account" lesson really well.
 
In an ideal world, an account provider should be held liable for any account fraud if they can't offer security standards to their users.

In 2015, it seems entirely reasonable to expect to find a kind of 2 step authentification on a service like PSN.

As I mentioned on the previous page there's a 5 digit pin you can add to purchases now. Not sure how new that is but I've never seen it before.
 

rav

Member
Deleted my card deets. Just realised this might screw up my PS+ subscription though no?

I have only put in prepaid cards for PS+. I think you'll have to manually add more time either from paypal, creditcard or prepaid card before it runs out to have a smooth transition.
 
Without 2 step the best anyone can do is remove CC info and use a unique email.

If you use gmail just add a + after your username and anything you like. Email will always go to your account.

email+supersecretthing@gmail - done. Every time a mention of a hack occurs just change the email to +somethingdifferent

Then anyone who knows your email and pw but not your + still can't get in.
 

The_Lump

Banned
Hmm, might just leave it for now and subscribe again when I feel like playing online. Assume my PS+ will just stop next time it tries to take money?
 

DR2K

Banned
Have them put a note on your account that you were told to do a charge back with the bank in case they ban your account.
 
Good luck, OP.
These stories never seem to end well, but yeah, facing $500 is not at all acceptable.

If you have to do a charge back, understand you'll lose your account and all of the licenses that you paid Sony for so talk with your bank and charge back everything you possibly/legally can.
 

Wabba

Member
Bad luck, maybe you could contact your bank or something like that. Isn't there any laws to prevent online theft.
 

geordiemp

Member
OK I go in, delete my Credit card, go back and its still there.

I cannot remove it.

Does not matter if I click save or just click another option

Tired entering a stupid credit card number such as 9999999 and it does not accept it, keeps reverting to my CC.

WTF
 

slit

Member
OK I go in, delete my Credit card, go back and its still there.

I cannot remove it.

Does not matter if I click save or just click another option

Tired entering a stupid credit card number such as 9999999 and it does not accept it, keeps reverting to my CC.

WTF

What? You think you're getting away from them that easily?
 
I've got my CC info associated with my PSN/SEN account. Strong password, only used on this service. I'm not going to start removing it after every transaction, or buying top-up cards.

The eventual solution to this in UK is broad adoption of ZAPP, or similar: associate a token (mobile number in this case) with your card PAN on a trusted, secure database (Payments Council, say). Give your mobile number to PSN, Amazon, etc and then when you make a payment your bank's mobile app pops up to ask for authorisation. The vendor never knows your card details.

Coming soon, probably early 2016.
 

Artorias

Banned
For a NA PSN account, anybody logging in from a different console would need the security code of your credit card to continue using it as a payment method. Is this not the case for your country?

Can OP or anyone else answer this for me? I'm not trying to cast doubt on OP, but I'm surprised that PSN in other countries would allow you to use a CC without reentering the security code.

I've replaced my PS3 several times and my PS4 once, and each time I had to enter my CC security code immediately upon entering the store, or it would delete the entire CC profile.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Done. Thanks.
No problem =)


OK I go in, delete my Credit card, go back and its still there.

I cannot remove it.

Does not matter if I click save or just click another option

Tired entering a stupid credit card number such as 9999999 and it does not accept it, keeps reverting to my CC.

WTF
Try click on the delete button after clicking on "billing information" instead of editing the current information. That seems to work.


What? You think you're getting away from them that easily?
Just click on the delete button instead of trying to edit out the information should work. So yeah, it should be that easy :)
 
This seems to happen much more with Sony than other big name services. I've heard their security in general is pretty out of date, wonder if that's true.
 

cilonen

Member
Without 2 step the best anyone can do is remove CC info and use a unique email.

If you use gmail just add a + after your username and anything you like. Email will always go to your account.

email+supersecretthing@gmail - done. Every time a mention of a hack occurs just change the email to +somethingdifferent

Then anyone who knows your email and pw but not your + still can't get in.

I didn't know this trick, this is really cool. Thanks.
 

MidEvlDed

Member
Ever since PSN was hacked a few years back, I removed my cards from my PSN profile. I only buy PSN cards now and redeem those on the store, usually $20 at a time. I feel like a lot of people probably do this now.
 

vypek

Member
Has OP been able to recover his account at least? I know the money is a different story at the moment but I'm wondering about recovering the account which seems like a step towards it not continuing/happening again. Its also one of my biggest fears for my gaming consoles that the account would be taken and I could not recover it. Want to take precautions or learn from this so it won't happen
 

Curufinwe

Member
This seems to happen much more with Sony than other big name services. I've heard their security in general is pretty out of date, wonder if that's true.

When the 360 was more popular there were stories of FIFA hacks on it every week. Much more than on the PS3.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
This seems to happen much more with Sony than other big name services. I've heard their security in general is pretty out of date, wonder if that's true.
I dont think there are any reliable source that can tell you about if Sony's security is pretty out of date or not, unless you personally know someone who work on their security (not only that, i'm sure that they have several of separate people working on separate things concidering the size of Sony. I dont think everything is unified and is operated from one data center).

It used to happen a lot more with Xbox Live, at least going by posts on NeoGAF. I wonder what Microsoft and/or EA did to limit that, or if still happends, just outside of NeoGAF.
 

autoduelist

Member
If you keep secure passwords, different for every site, and have various anti-spyware apps installed and up to date, you really don't need to worry about this happening to you. OP got phished, or perhaps he uses the same pw everywhere and it got out in the wild.

There's no reason for all the hoopla fear about having your CC details on PSN if you have your shit together.


This seems to happen much more with Sony than other big name services. I've heard their security in general is pretty out of date, wonder if that's true.

This has nothing to do with Sony's security. They weren't hacked or breached. Any security lapse was on the OP's side.
Sony's security is more up to date than most companies, given they completely overhauled it after the breach a few years ago (that wasn't even that bad, though got tons of press because they took PSN down while they fixed/investigated).
Most issues occur due to:
Unsecure info on your personal computer (key loggers, spyware, etc).
Reuse of passwords (some other site gets your pw, now it is tested everywhere else)
CC details got loose via other means (can happen anywhere, for example, at a gas station, etc)

There's an entire industry of stolen credit cards. Getting, testing, using. If your card is in the wild, and used at store ABC, often store ABC has absolutely nothing to do with it. They're just where the CC was used.

Wh .. what?

3) All major credit cards do *actual chargebacks* where the money is taken away from the card processor, you have to fill in a bit of paperwork but it's pretty easy. (This by the way is how you can force Paypal to refund you instead of working through their "well, we'll try to get your money back" dispute process.)

Chargebacks are extremely expensive for the company being charged back (in this case, Sony). They are often responsible for both the amount itself, plus a fine.

For example, I send you a Gadget for $10, and you charge me back, I'll likely be out the Gadget itself, have to pay back the $10, and get fined on top of it. For this reason, it's extremely common for companies to ban customers for chargebacks, because people use chargebacks to -commit- fraud all the time, not just protect themselves from fraud. For example, if they want to get that Gadget for free, or they have buyer's remorse and don't want to spend the money anymore, or if their kids bought it.

Chargebacks should be used as a last resort -only-, for example if a company charges you $100 instead of $10, then doesn't answer your emails for a couple weeks.

In the case of PSN digital goods, the chargebacks can still add up to be very expensive for Sony. Even a relatively small company can easily be paying tens of thousands of dollars in chargeback fines, depending on what exactly they're selling... I can imagine Sony's chargebacks top that simply due to size.
 

10101

Gold Member
I feel for you OP that's a lot of money to write off :(

Personally I don't keep my card details on file with anyone other than Amazon or PayPal. I use PP for all PS transactions and I know there is a risk with that (apparently) but I've never had any sort of chargeback in ~10 years of using them. Anyway I'd rather lose my account than a shit ton of money.

Hope it all works out for you mate.
 

slit

Member
Chargebacks are extremely expensive for the company being charged back (in this case, Sony). They are often responsible for both the amount itself, plus a fine.

For example, I send you a Gadget for $10, and you charge me back, I'll likely be out the Gadget itself, have to pay back the $10, and get fined on top of it. For this reason, it's extremely common for companies to ban customers for chargebacks, because people use chargebacks to -commit- fraud all the time, not just protect themselves from fraud. For example, if they want to get that Gadget for free, or they have buyer's remorse and don't want to spend the money anymore, or if their kids bought it.

Chargebacks should be used as a last resort -only-, for example if a company charges you $100 instead of $10, then doesn't answer your emails for a couple weeks.

In the case of PSN digital goods, the chargebacks can still add up to be very expensive for Sony. Even a relatively small company can easily be paying tens of thousands of dollars in chargeback fines, depending on what exactly they're selling... I can imagine Sony's chargebacks top that simply due to size.

You're right, but it's still no excuse for the draconian policies that force people to go that route. Most of the major retailers have to deal with this in one way or another yet Sony just can't for some unknown reason.
 

th4tguy

Member
As I mentioned on the previous page there's a 5 digit pin you can add to purchases now. Not sure how new that is but I've never seen it before.

I just added a pin to my account under account settings > security >pin

I then logged into the psn webstore to test it. I clicked pre-order Resident Evil Remake (was going to get it anyways). Not only did it not ask for a pin, but it didn't even ask me to confirm the purchase. It just took me straight to the download link.....

Note: I didn't have the funds in my wallet. It automatically added them from my card on file. Again, without confirmation.


Edit:
There is a setting under wallet that reads as follows:
"Automatically Add Funds to Renew Subscriptions or Pay for Pre-ordered Content"
That was set to yes (default). I assume this is why I saw the behavior detailed above. Though, I'm not sure why it didn't ask for a pin.
 

Samphire

Neo Member
This thread really illustrates just how much the policies of digital content providers (Sony in particular) are lagging behind the consumer protections needed to make them truly viable. I like the idea of not screwing around with physical media, but I also like the idea of not living under the threat of having my entire game collection revoked by a large corporation unless I suck it up and assume liability for fraud.

In the case of PSN digital goods, the chargebacks can still add up to be very expensive for Sony. Even a relatively small company can easily be paying tens of thousands of dollars in chargeback fines, depending on what exactly they're selling... I can imagine Sony's chargebacks top that simply due to size.

This should be an incentive for them to have a policy in place to revoke access to fraudulently purchased content, and issue a refund to the original payment source. That, and the incentive of not completely screwing over your customers.
 

yatesl

Member
its my fault someone got my password now is it? and that means I deserve to loose £598? It's not like there should be a refund mechanism in place anyway is it?

Corporate apologists baffle me, especially in a case like this. £600 isn't chump change, either.

Keep going to customer service. I know there's a post somewhere about Sony reps on here and Twitter who you might be able to get in touch with, to see if they can help.
 

system11

Member
In the case of PSN digital goods, the chargebacks can still add up to be very expensive for Sony. Even a relatively small company can easily be paying tens of thousands of dollars in chargeback fines, depending on what exactly they're selling... I can imagine Sony's chargebacks top that simply due to size.

Well then, they shouldn't break trading laws and should have given him the refund and cancelled the digital license he didn't buy. Then nobody has to pay any fines, and they don't get topics like this posted on busy gaming forums.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
NEVERRRRR
EVERRRRRR

LEAVE YOUR CC DETAILS ON YOUR PSN ACCOUNT

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