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PSN new TERMS OF SERVICE AND USER AGREEMENT (nov 2010) The end of game sharing?

Corto

Member
This is the link to the whole document: http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html

I will post the more important excerpts:

You must keep your password and other account details secret (other than your Online ID), and not share them with anyone else, to prevent unauthorised use of your Sony Online Services account. If you share account details with someone who uses your account in breach of these Conditions or we believe that your account has been compromised, your account and/or access to Sony Online Services may be suspended or terminated. We are not liable for any unauthorised use or sharing of your Sony Online Services account.

8. YOUR RIGHTS TO SERVICES

All Services provided through Sony Online Services, are licensed non-exclusively to you solely for your personal, private, non-commercial use subject to these Conditions and any relevant Additional Conditions. The Services may be used only on a limited number of activated Sony Systems associated with your Sony Online Services account, as specified in the Service description, these Conditions or any relevant Additional Conditions.

All intellectual property rights in the Services belong to us and/or our licensors. All use of or access to such Services is subject to these Conditions, any relevant Additional Conditions and all applicable laws.

Unless expressly authorised by us, you must not:

share, sell, transfer, rent or sublicense any Service or part of any Service to anyone else; or

and also on subscription services:

10. SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES

Subject to availability, you may be able to buy a subscription Service for a period of online game play, access to music or other services or activities. Subscriptions last for a fixed period of time specified on purchase, for example, seven days, ninety days or one year ("the Subscription Period"). A one year Subscription Period will last for 365 days. The Subscription Period will vary for different services and will be explained to you before you purchase the subscription.

Only the account that buys a subscription can use that subscription. You must not share your subscription with another account or account holder (not even with your associated Master Account or Sub Accounts).
Did a search didn't find anything.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Fine with me, but hopefully they'll give us the option to remotely deactivate shares. Is there any reason that they don't?
 

MrPliskin

Banned
Sounds like they might be changing their DRM? Maybe they'll do something similar to what MS has in place?

...naaaah.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
I wonder if this is out of concern of people sharing PSN + accounts?
 

Corto

Member
Snuggler said:
Fine with me, but hopefully they'll give us the option to remotely deactivate shares. Is there any reason that they don't?

I'm pretty sure they only give the option of deactivation to the account holder. So if you shared some games with a friend you need to ask him to deactivate his license... gently.
 

DonMigs85

Member
Snuggler said:
Fine with me, but hopefully they'll give us the option to remotely deactivate shares. Is there any reason that they don't?
I wish. You can do this for iTunes right?
 

MrPliskin

Banned
Xenon said:
Good, I always thought the concept of "game sharing" was just a loophole for piracy.

Not piracy, just irresponsible management of your purchased goods. People didn't really understand it (mostly because the folks who used it didn't know/explain what it is).

Good riddance to the folks who did it though, exploiting things generally ruins it for everyone else.

/costanza
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Corto said:
I'm pretty sure they only give the option of deactivation to the account holder. So if you shared some games with a friend you need to ask him to deactivate his license... gently.

Yeah. I mean, it's my fault for being too nice and letting a couple PSN friends share a couple of my games, but a couple of them wouldn't deactivate after I asked so I'm out of luck until Sony does gives us the option.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Unless expressly authorised by us

They expressly authorise you in every game that allows gamesharing. It's in the description/terms/notes attached to each game that allows it, IIRC.

The stuff about not sharing your account details was always there I think, obviously.

I certainly also don't see anything here that suggests a change to the DRM. "The Services may be used only on a limited number of activated Sony Systems associated with your Sony Online Services account" reflects the system as it technically works already.
 
Snuggler said:
Fine with me, but hopefully they'll give us the option to remotely deactivate shares. Is there any reason that they don't?

Well the consoles that would end up being deactivated could just stay off the network forever, and therefore could just play those shared games forever. Having the console initiate the deactivation ensures the ability to play is removed.
 

Corto

Member
Snuggler said:
Yeah. I mean, it's my fault for being too nice and letting a couple PSN friends share a couple of my games, but a couple of them wouldn't deactivate after I asked so I'm out of luck until Sony does gives us the option.

Or you can forget the gently part and jump for the aggressive, blackmail option. Do your friends have pets? muahuahua

CatGun.jpg
 

LosDaddie

Banned
I'm surprised it's taken this long, honestly.

Now I'm sure some Sony fan(atic) will be quick to post an old Tretton quote about it, but game-sharing always seemed like a loophole that people found and exploited. But hey, I'm no saint either. I've shared 3 games with my bro.
 

Barrett2

Member
Xenon said:
Good, I always thought the concept of "game sharing" was just a loophole for piracy.

As opposed to what? If you are allowed to share games, you are allowed to share games.

The notion that people "abused" the privilege is silly, IMO. Either you are allowed to do something under the TOS or you aren't, there is no relevant "intent."
 

Tiduz

Eurogaime
if i have a usa account but live in europe i can still play the games i bought on my us acc on my eu account right?

thats all that matters to me
 

jiggles

Banned
Here's the old wording for these parts, if anyone's interested.

You may not provide anyone with your name or any other personally identifying information other than your Online ID, nor the name, password or personally identifying information of any other person or business through any means, including messaging, chat or any other form of PSN communication.
(this is the same, but now with an explicit threat of account banning)

7. GENERAL LICENSE RESTRICTIONS AND TERMS

Except as stated in this Agreement, all content and software provided through Sony Online Services are licensed non-exclusively and revocably to you, your children and children for whom you are a legal guardian (collectively for purposes of this section, "You" or "Your"), solely for Your personal, private, non-transferable, non-commercial, limited use on a limited number of activated PlayStation®3 computer entertainment systems, PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) systems, VOD Devices and any other hardware devices, including peripherals that are sold or licensed by a Sony company, authorized by SCEA in the country in which your account is registered. All intellectual property rights subsisting in Sony Online Services, including all software, data, and content subsisting in or in connection with the operation of Sony Online Services, the Online ID, the access to content and hardware used in connection with Sony Online Services (collectively defined as "Property"), belong to SCEA and its licensors. All use or access to Property shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement, other applicable agreements, if any, and all applicable copyright and intellectual property rights laws. You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property. Except as stated in this Agreement or otherwise expressly permitted by SCEA in writing, you may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property. You may not create any derivative works, attempt to create the source code from the object code, or download or use any Property for any purpose other than as expressly permitted. You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism in connection with Sony Online Services or any of the content or service offered through Sony Online Services. You acknowledge that Sony Online Services and content or service provided through Sony Online Services, may contain security or technical features that will prevent use of such content or service in violation of this Agreement. The Property is not licensed to you for resale, public performance, display, distribution or broadcast. You acknowledge that some content providers and licensors are intended third party beneficiaries who have rights to enforce this Agreement against you and your permitted users. Except as expressly granted in this Agreement, SCEA and its licensors reserve all rights, interests, and remedies in connection with Sony Online Services and the Property.

Additional terms and conditions, including use restrictions or purchase requirements may apply to a particular item. Use or license terms may be more restrictive depending on the item. Please read carefully all specific terms of use for a particular content or service before purchasing or accepting SCEA's offer. The restrictions to which a particular content or service is subject are in the sole discretion of SCEA or its licensors and are subject to change at any time. Use of the terms "purchase," "sale," "sold," "sell," "rent" or "buy" on or in connection with Sony Online Services shall not mean or imply any transfer of ownership of any content, data or software or any intellectual property rights therein from SCEA or its licensors to any user or third party. All other company, product, and service names and logos referenced on Sony Online Services are the marks, trade names, trademarks/service marks, and registered trademarks/service marks ("Marks") of their respective owners. You may not use or reproduce any Marks without the owner's express written consent. You may not remove any proprietary notices or labels from any content.

(this has been split up, reworded and rearranged)

10. SUBSCRIPTIONS

SCEA may offer you the opportunity to purchase subscriptions that provide access to particular products or services for a specified period of time. Subscriptions renew automatically unless you cancel the subscription. The cost of each subscription will automatically be deducted from your wallet at the beginning of each subscription term without further notice to you. Subscriptions may not be shared among any PSN accounts, including the Master Account with its associated Sub Accounts.

(this looks pretty much the same)
 

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
MrPliskin said:
Not piracy, just irresponsible management of your purchased goods. People didn't really understand it (mostly because the folks who used it didn't know/explain what it is).

Good riddance to the folks who did it though, exploiting things generally ruins it for everyone else.
Except that Sony basically told us we could do this. Oh well. It's not like there's a ton on PSN I'll miss out on if I don't buy anything on it anymore.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
gofreak said:
They expressly authorise you in every game that allows gamesharing. It's in the description/terms/notes attached to each game that allows it, IIRC.

The stuff about not sharing your account details was always there I think, obviously.

I certainly also don't see anything here that suggests a change to the DRM. "The Services may be used only on a limited number of activated Sony Systems associated with your Sony Online Services account" reflects the system as it technically works already.


This.

Besides, Sony can't block game sharing. How else would you be able to re-download your stuff on a new PS3 if the old one goes belly up?
 

krae_man

Member
Snuggler said:
Fine with me, but hopefully they'll give us the option to remotely deactivate shares. Is there any reason that they don't?

I think the reason Sony doesn't allow remote deactivations is because the games could be played offline. They can't remote deactivate a license if the PS3 never connects to PSN again.

If you wan't remote deactivations, all games would have to be like Final Fight.
 

kevm3

Member
Yeah that would be sweet, banning people for a feature we Sony themselves promoted. Can't believe people are cheering for less rights as a gamer. Developers can disable game sharing on an individual basis if they want so blame them for 'shared' games.
 

DR2K

Banned
TTP said:
This.

Besides, Sony can't block game sharing. How else would you be able to re-download your stuff on a new PS3 if the old one goes belly up?

Send it in to them aka Nintendo.
 

Deadstar

Member
TTP said:
This.

Besides, Sony can't block game sharing. How else would you be able to re-download your stuff on a new PS3 if the old one goes belly up?

Yes, because it's tied to the ps3. In my opinion your games should be tied to your account like Steam. Only the owner could play the games when logged in but you'd have the ability to log in to any ps3. Maybe keep the last two systems activated so if you had two ps3s you could play with a friend or family member.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
krae_man said:
I think the reason Sony doesn't allow remote deactivations is because the games could be played offline. They can't remote deactivate a license if the PS3 never connects to PSN again.

If you wan't remote deactivations, all games would have to be like Final Fight.

I don't see the connection. Sure, the license wouldn't be deactivated until they signed into PSN, but I don't think playing offline forever would be worth a few free PSN games for most people.

but whatever, it's not like it's gonna happen soon anyways. I still have a healthy PS3 and a free spot so it's not an emergency or anything.
 

Corto

Member
TTP said:
This.

Besides, Sony can't block game sharing. How else would you be able to re-download your stuff on a new PS3 if the old one goes belly up?

Ideally you contact Sony to deactivate the license of the old system and then activate the license on the new one.

The privacy policy was always like this? http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_privacy_en.html

Where can I read past versions?

3. Using Sony Online Services

Each time you sign in to Sony Online Services, we will collect information automatically without further notice to you, for example:

your Online ID
your IP address and device MAC address (the unique numbers which identify the network and device you are using) and date and time of sign in;
 

Jtrizzy

Member
So do people need to be worried? I have my account set up on one other persons PS3. I had to get all of mine deactvated by sony when I got a slim recently, and the guy on the phone was pretty pissed.
 

-PXG-

Member
Xenon said:
Good, I always thought the concept of "game sharing" was just a loophole for piracy.

Fuck me.

So, I guess you loathe rentals and borrowing games too huh? Yeah, thought so. How are those pay checks from Uncle Sony?
 

MrPliskin

Banned
Lambtron said:
Except that Sony basically told us we could do this. Oh well. It's not like there's a ton on PSN I'll miss out on if I don't buy anything on it anymore.

Oh, I didn't realize that Sony was a single person.

For a while, I was under the impression that it was a corporation, lots of people involved, and when one person speaks, it shouldn't generally be taken at face value.



Translation: PR Spin from Jack Tretton shouldn't be taken as fact. It was DRM from the start, and people exploiting it deserve all of the bullshit that comes with it. You lost hundreds of dollars in games? Good, learn to stop taking advantage of shit and "play fair".
:D
 

BeeDog

Member
I never gameshared so this won't affect me, but I hope this change won't limit re-downloads or anything like that.
 

Barrett2

Member
MrPliskin said:
Oh, I didn't realize that Sony was a single person.

For a while, I was under the impression that it was a corporation, lots of people involved, and when one person speaks, it shouldn't generally be taken at face value.



Translation: PR Spin from Jack Tretton shouldn't be taken as fact. It was DRM from the start, and people exploiting it deserve all of the bullshit that comes with it. You lost hundreds of dollars in games? Good, learn to stop taking advantage of shit and "play fair".
:D

What in god's name are you talking about? If the President and CEO of a company makes a statement on a product, that IS the company talking.

There is no such thing as an underlying *intent* to a license agreement. I am either explicitly allowed to do something under that agreement, or I am not.
 
Honestly Sony had a wonderful start with the PS3 + PSN. All free, region free, 5 limit sharing.

Now we have Plus, rumors of region restricted games (is this been confirmed or denied?) and no sharing?
 

krae_man

Member
Snuggler said:
I don't see the connection. Sure, the license wouldn't be deactivated until they signed into PSN, but I don't think playing offline forever would be worth a few free PSN games for most people.

but whatever, it's not like it's gonna happen soon anyways. I still have a healthy PS3 and a free spot so it's not an emergency or anything.

You see the connection perfectly.

Though I would like it if Sony came up with some kind of middle ground where you can remote deactivate licenses, but do not get the license back untill the system connects to the internet and Sony is able to remove it. If your friend keeps his PS3 offline forever well TS for you.
 

Ashkeloth

Member
As long as this doesn't stop cross-profile same console sharing, I'm fine with it.

I own the US version of both Blazblue games and pretty much all of the DLC for both of them on a US account bought using a US PSN card. If they stop me from using the DLC characters on my UK account, I'm going to be at least slightly pissed.
 

MrPliskin

Banned
lawblob said:
What in god's name are you talking about? If the President and CEO of a company makes a statement on a product, that IS the company talking.

There is no such thing as an underlying *intent* to a license agreement. I am either explicitly allowed to do something under that agreement, or I am not.

Oh really? So anytime that anyone twists or contorts something that makes it true for intended use?

Again, just because you can activate your account on 5 machines doesn't mean that you shouldn't suffer the consequences if you fuck up and give it to the wrong people. You lose your activations because you want to trade and get free shit, good, I'm glad you did. Learn your lesson.
 
TTP said:
Besides, Sony can't block game sharing. How else would you be able to re-download your stuff on a new PS3 if the old one goes belly up?
Sure they can. If they detect the same authorisation for a game in use concurrently (online) then the one that isn't actually logged in with the most recent reauthorisation gets deactivated.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
BeeDog said:
I never gameshared so this won't affect me, but I hope this change won't limit re-downloads or anything like that.


re-downloads and number of activations are separate
 
MrPliskin said:
Oh really? So anytime that anyone twists or contorts something that makes it true for intended use?

Again, just because you can activate your account on 5 machines doesn't mean that you shouldn't suffer the consequences if you fuck up and give it to the wrong people. You lose your activations because you want to trade and get free shit, good, I'm glad you did. Learn your lesson.

Sony Defence Force - assemble!!!!
 
uhm... aside from rephrasing etc., it always has stated that (?). I don't see the news here. Doesn't affect game sharing anyway as TTP already explained.

and just for the record:
- PSN DRM = awesome for (close/local) friends/family & getting your stuff back on a new console w/o any hassle
- exploiting PSN DRM to minimize the costs for a random group of 5 people = not cool (and not really desirable even from the game sharers' position IMO)
 
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