PT and others games recreated in Dreams WTF!!!!

Hendrick's

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So for those who may know, does this game allow for file imports for sound, textures, etc.?
 

Guynamedbilly

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The problem with expecting things like this is that people will give up on actually following through with a project like that. Why would people spend months and years to make something really good that's locked up in another game? It has happened with some big mods, but not often.
 

GribbleGrunger

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The problem with expecting things like this is that people will give up on actually following through with a project like that. Why would people spend months and years to make something really good that's locked up in another game? It has happened with some big mods, but not often.
Basically you're asking: why would anyone, who has always dreamed of being able to make games, take the opportunity to do just that if they don't get paid? I'm assuming remuneration has to be a factor in your statement because otherwise it holds no worth as a question at all. But, if remuneration is factored in, do you honestly believe that creative people only engage in the creative process if it in some way fattens their bank account? I think you'll find that a hell of a lot of people just enjoy the creative process. A young artist doesn't look at a blank canvas and think 'I wonder how much money I can paint?'
 
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nkarafo

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I'm probabaly missing something here since this doesn't look that great at all. All other PT recreations that exist look much better than this. Is it even functional with all the loops and puzzles? Does it have Lisa in it?
 

GribbleGrunger

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I'm probabaly missing something here since this doesn't look that great at all. All other PT recreations that exist look much better than this. Is it even functional with all the loops and puzzles? Does it have Lisa in it?
I think PT probably tool longer than three weeks to make, the developers were already familiar with the tools and it was made by more than one person ...

Did any of that cross your mind when you were watching? What you're seeing there is mindblowing but or some reason you're just taking it for granted.
 
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Guynamedbilly

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Basically you're asking: why would anyone, who has always dreamed of being able to make games, take the opportunity to do just that if they don't get paid? I'm assuming remuneration has to be a factor in your statement because otherwise it holds no worth as a question at all. But, if remuneration is factored in, do you honestly believe that creative people only engage in the creative process if it in some way fattens their bank account? I think you'll find that a hell of a lot of people just enjoy the creative process. A young artist doesn't look at a blank canvas and think 'I wonder how much money I can paint?'
What I would say is it takes much more than creativity to make something like what's suggested. How many mods and fan projects have fizzled away?
 

nkarafo

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I think PT probably tool longer than three weeks to make, the developers were already familiar with the tools and it was made by more than one person ...

Did any of that cross your mind when you were watching? What you're seeing there is mindblowing but or some reason you're just taking it for granted.
AFAIK, this one is made by one person:

https://radiusgordello.itch.io/unreal-pt/devlog/63152/announcement-update-107-changelog

Obviously, it's not a three weeks job but that's probably because it's the full experience with all the loops and puzzles, not just the model of the hallway. The only thing that is missing is the cockroaches. If he adds those, it will be almost a perfect port.
 

GribbleGrunger

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What I would say is it takes much more than creativity to make something like what's suggested. How many mods and fan projects have fizzled away?
There will be tons of unfinished projects, there always was on LBP too. The difference here is, regardless of whether the project is unfinished or not, all the assets will be available for other people to use. Teams are already forming around projects in order to speed the process up and many people are using pre-made assets to speed the process up too. It's an ever increasing bank of 'shortcuts'.
 

GribbleGrunger

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AFAIK, this one is made by one person:

https://radiusgordello.itch.io/unreal-pt/devlog/63152/announcement-update-107-changelog

Obviously, it's not a three weeks job but that's probably because it's the full experience with all the loops and puzzles, not just the model of the hallway. The only thing that is missing is the cockroaches. If he adds those, it will be almost a perfect port.
Good job he had much longer and knowledge of the Unreal engine. Just how long has he spent on this anyway? 3 months? A year? You are being unreasonable in order to downplay Dreams. You don't understand Dreams if you think it can't make the full experience. Who knows, perhaps this guy will give up and want to do something else, but the bottom line is, Dreams enables people with no experience to make games of this quality and beyond. Dreams will never satisfy you if you compare it to an engine capable of making AAA titles. It's an unfair comparison.
 
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nkarafo

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You don't understand Dreams if you think it can't make the full experience. Who knows, perhaps this guy will give up and want to do something else, but the bottom line is, Dreams enables people with no experience to make games of this quality and beyond. Dreams will never satisfy you if you compare it to an engine capable of making AAA titles. It's an unfair comparison.
Yeah, like i said, i'm probably missing something.

So it's a tool that everyone can use? That's great. I'm still more interested in more "professional" efforts though.


Well, just get into the beta and show him how it's done.
When i saw the title of the topic, i probably had the same thought as him. I was expecting something that looks close to other PT recreations at least. Didn't know Dreams is not to be compared to actual game development engines.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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Yeah, like i said, i'm probably missing something.

So it's a tool that everyone can use? That's great. I'm still more interested in more "professional" efforts though.



When i saw the clickbaity title of the topic, i felt the same as him. I was expecting something that looks close to other PT recreations at least. Didn't know Dreams is not to be compared to actual game development engines.
There are and there will be more professional efforts. Give it a year and you'll see thing indistinguishable from top notch AA titles. What we're seeing at the moment is just experiments from people who are still learning the tools and have only had 3 weeks of practice. It's not even the full package.




 
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GribbleGrunger

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Ok now you confused me. So it's not capable now but it will in the future?
So, unless it can make GOW or UC, it's not very good, right? That's your benchmark for 'good' ...? There's a difference between AAA and AA titles.
 
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nkarafo

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So, unless it can make GOW or UC, it's not very good, right? That's your benchmark for 'good' ...?
No, my benchmark of "good" is what this topic is about, a PT recreation. I compared it to another and then you brought the AAA games comparison into the table, not me.
 

GribbleGrunger

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No, my benchmark of "good" is what this topic is about, a PT recreation. I compared it to another and then you brought the AAA games comparison into the table, not me.
The guy making the other PT copy is using an engine capable of making AAA titles (Unreal). This is Dreams, a full development suite (music, sound, animations, asset creation, game creation) in one package which is easy enough for a compete novice to create AA titles.
 

nkarafo

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The guy making the other PT copy is using an engine capable of making AAA titles (Unreal). This is Dreams, a full development suite (music, sound, animations, asset creation, game creation) in one package which is easy enough for a compete novice to create AA titles.
Οk, got it.
 

Kenpachii

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Dreams doesn't convince me until they adress the following:

1) Make it possible that content can be sold to the consumer with a infrastructure that comes with it
2) Make it multiplatform.
3) As powerful as current engines but far more easier to develop for. ( i think there is high demand for this )
4) Creations of mods for PS5 games if non of the above works out.
5) Free but gain royalty's the moment sales happen.

They need to be very clear on these things but honestly all i see is some nice little big planet maps that honestly have no value to anybody.
 
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Dunki

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Dreams doesn't convince me until they adress the following:

1) Make it possible that content can be sold to the consumer with a infrastructure that comes with it
2) Make it multiplatform.

I won't see this happening which makes dreams in my vision set up to fail.
Thema First one ist hinter at or was rumored. Thema Last one will never Happen since they are Sony
 

Dunki

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So, unless it can make GOW or UC, it's not very good, right? That's your benchmark for 'good' ...? There's a difference between AAA and AA titles.
IT will rival Indy Games even high Qualität Ines. I have Seen one looking Like Original. And on the first look it was on the same level quality wise
 

ethomaz

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PT is pretty easy game to recreate both in environment and gameplay.

It was a small and limited demo after all.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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Dreams doesn't convince me until they adress the following:

1) Make it possible that content can be sold to the consumer with a infrastructure that comes with it
2) Make it multiplatform.
3) As powerful as current engines but far more easier to develop for. ( i think there is high demand for this )
4) Creations of mods for PS5 games if non of the above works out.
5) Free but gain royalty's the moment sales happen.

They need to be very clear on these things but honestly all i see is some nice little big planet maps that honestly have no value to anybody.
How the hell can you say that in a thread about reproducing PT. Jesus, the ignorance surrounding Dreams is off the scale. For some, Dreams will be a dream come true, for others it will be a swift kick in the knackers.
 
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AV

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Dreams doesn't convince me until they adress the following:

1) Make it possible that content can be sold to the consumer with a infrastructure that comes with it
2) Make it multiplatform.
3) As powerful as current engines but far more easier to develop for. ( i think there is high demand for this )
4) Creations of mods for PS5 games if non of the above works out.
5) Free but gain royalty's the moment sales happen.
I think you're really misunderstanding what Dreams is. It's not a full game creation suite, it's a $60 game maker within a game, like LittleBigPlanet on steroids.
 

GribbleGrunger

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I think you're really misunderstanding what Dreams is. It's not a full game creation suite, it's a $60 game maker within a game, like LittleBigPlanet on steroids.
Er ... no it isn't. It's a game creation suite and that's it. The campaign is there only to show what that game creation suite can do.
 

AV

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Er ... no it isn't. It's a game creation suite and that's it. The campaign is there only to show what that game creation suite can do.
I'd still call Dreams a game, even if it's a game where you make games. I'd call LittleBigPlanet a game, I'd call Super Mario Maker a game. They're all $60 things you can buy from game stores.

My point is that it's not Unity, or even Game Maker Studio.
 

Dunki

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I'd still call Dreams a game, even if it's a game where you make games. I'd call LittleBigPlanet a game, I'd call Super Mario Maker a game. They're all $60 things you can buy from game stores.

My point is that it's not Unity, or even Game Maker Studio.
Giving the stuff you can make with it. I would say yes it is. In fact I believe it is more powerful than a game maker studio without losing the accessibility and you can even create VR games. Also the only limit that this game has is the power of the PS4 or Pro. If you put too much physics, animations, stuff in general into the game you will see the framerate taking a hit. You are in complete control of everything.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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I'd still call Dreams a game, even if it's a game where you make games. I'd call LittleBigPlanet a game, I'd call Super Mario Maker a game. They're all $60 things you can buy from game stores.

My point is that it's not Unity, or even Game Maker Studio.
It's not a game where you make games. It's a development suite to make games. LBP was a game that allowed you to use the assets to make games of your own.
Everything in Dreams is made in Dreams.
 
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AV

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Giving the stuff you can make with it. I would say yes it is. In fact I believe it is more powerful than a game maker studio without losing the accessibility and you can even create VR games. Also the only limit that this game has is the power of the PS4 or Pro. If you put too much physics, animations, stuff in general into the game you will see the framerate taking a hit. You are in complete control of everything.
It's not a game where you make games. It's a development suite to make games. LBP was a game that allowed you to use the assets to make games of your own.
Just don't get overly hyped. It's ambitious as hell and incredibly impressive, and I'm sure we'll see some amazing stuff come out of it, but there's a good reason it's $60. It's a walled-off experience where the creations can only be played by other people who own the game. I don't mean to come off as overly negative, I'm definitely going to give this a try myself and I wish MM success, but I would temper your expectations as to what the game can actually do within its own confines. 3 of the 5 points I was originally addressing are simply not going to happen and the other two are unlikely, right now they're "part of a 10 year plan".
 

Dunki

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Just don't get overly hyped. It's ambitious as hell and incredibly impressive, and I'm sure we'll see some amazing stuff come out of it, but there's a good reason it's $60. It's a walled-off experience where the creations can only be played by other people who own the game. I don't mean to come off as overly negative, I'm definitely going to give this a try myself and I wish MM success, but I would temper your expectations as to what the game can actually do within its own confines. 3 of the 5 points I was originally addressing are simply not going to happen and the other two are unlikely, right now they're "part of a 10 year plan".
It is rumored or hinted at that there will be a store like system where you can sell your stuff. And yes of corse it is restricted to people buying dreams and only in Dreams but creation wise there are no restrictions.
 

GribbleGrunger

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Just don't get overly hyped. It's ambitious as hell and incredibly impressive, and I'm sure we'll see some amazing stuff come out of it, but there's a good reason it's $60. It's a walled-off experience where the creations can only be played by other people who own the game. I don't mean to come off as overly negative, I'm definitely going to give this a try myself and I wish MM success, but I would temper your expectations as to what the game can actually do within its own confines. 3 of the 5 points I was originally addressing are simply not going to happen and the other two are unlikely, right now they're "part of a 10 year plan".
Temper my expectations? LOL. Oh, blimey. Between people like you who think it's just a bit better than LBP and people who think it's going to make GOW, UC or Horizon zero dawn, I swear I've lost a good 80% of my hair. I'm in the beta fella and I've always known what it was capable of. In fact it's exceeded my expectations.
 
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AV

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Temper my expectations? LOL. Oh, blimey. Between people like you who think it's just a bit better than LBP and people who think it's going to make GOW, UC or Horizon zero dawn, I swear I've lost a good 80% of my hair. I'm in the beta fella and I've always known what it was capable of. In fact it's exceeded my expectations.
Okay, I know that the tools themselves are impressive, I've seen all the footage. Look at the 5 points I'm addressing above, they're in regards to the ecosystem, not the tools themselves. As it stands, you can't publish the games outside of Dreams itself, nor charge for them, nor use anything other than a PS4, nor create mods for other games. Nor is the engine as powerful as others available. With those things in mind, I would not call it a "full game creation suite".

All of the above seems incredibly obvious, I'm really not trying to attack the game, it looks great, I was originally just saying that it's totally unrealistic to expect it to do all the things listed. As you say yourself, it's not going to make God of War. The exporting and charging may be possible in the future if it sells well, but it's not even worth considering yet while the game isn't even out.
 

Hendrick's

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There will be tons of unfinished projects, there always was on LBP too. The difference here is, regardless of whether the project is unfinished or not, all the assets will be available for other people to use. Teams are already forming around projects in order to speed the process up and many people are using pre-made assets to speed the process up too. It's an ever increasing bank of 'shortcuts'.
Do you mean that you have to share everything you create or can you keep things for your use only?
 

Dunki

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Note from era.

There's already a souls-like game in slow development. :) Bonfires, sword&shield, rolling, stamina use, healing, etc.
Dammn I want to see this :p
 

GribbleGrunger

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Do you mean that you have to share everything you create or can you keep things for your use only?
You can keep everything private if you want but most people share, especially people who don't finish the projects. I guess they figure they might as well level up and get higher in the rankings for when they actually finish a project. I came across a FP camera set up today with adjustments for your own personal tastes. I'm having that!
 
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Some people claiming that either you can recreate GOW or RDR 2 in Dreams or it has "no value to the consumer" Jesus Fucking Christ. Seriously. I have just learnt that 99% of games out there has zero value to gamers. Should I cancel my Steam account already?
 

alienator

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People without creativity calling dreams crap already.

i swear im reading 2008 Little Big Planet comments here ;p
 
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made a gif of that cloth sim for those who were interested to see it




(sped up 2x to fit the full segment into gif form)


People without creativity calling dreams crap already.

i swear im reading 2008 Little Big Planet comments here ;p
I bet they love Mario Maker too.
 
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ColdToffee

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Only way to play good Star Wars games is to go retro confirmed :messenger_loudly_crying:
Someone might create a clone, like Galaxy Wars, with similar characters like Chewbecka, Princess Neia, Lucas Skyrunner, iwoks, Sans Holo, Dork Vather, etc.
Or a Space Balls game. Space Balls is much better than Star Wars anyway.
 

stranno

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Project Spark also allowed really crazy things back in the day. Like this Overboard!/Shipwreckers! remake.



I wish more luck to Dreams..
 

Musky_Cheese

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Someone might create a clone, like Galaxy Wars, with similar characters like Chewbecka, Princess Neia, Lucas Skyrunner, iwoks, Sans Holo, Dork Vather, etc.
Or a Space Balls game. Space Balls is much better than Star Wars anyway.
I will volunteer
 

GribbleGrunger

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Project Spark also allowed really crazy things back in the day. Like this Overboard!/Shipwreckers! remake.



I wish more luck to Dreams..
For goodness sake, stop comparing Dreams to Project Spark. Dreams is nothing like it. Everything in those pictures is made from pre-made assets. Everything in Dreams is made in Dreams. Why can't some people get this?
 
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stranno

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For goodness sake, stop comparing Dreams to Project Spark. Dreams is nothing like it. Everything in those pictures is made from pre-made assets. Everything in Dreams is made in Dreams. Why can't some people get this?
Of course tech has evolved and consoles has more power to spare in content creation. But i dont think stock assets were the problem in Project Spark..
 

GribbleGrunger

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Of course tech has evolved and consoles has more power to spare in content creation. But i dont think stock assets were the problem in Project Spark..
It was a huge part of its problem. That and the lack of flexibility compared to Dreams. Dreams is a blank canvas waiting for the creator to fill it with his or her imagination.