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Push back against Anti-Vaxxers

GloveSlap

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More like joking. Really, it's that anti-vaxxers have an extremely selfish view of the world where they don't even consider that their decisions put others at risk.
I think its also that they're too comfortable from growing up in a post-vaccine world.
 
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legacyzero

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Here is the deal. You try to forcibly put something in my arm that I don’t want, for whatever reason.... I’ll kill you or die trying.

Hope that clears things up.
Settle down, Scrappy Doo lmao

Perhaps concede that you absolutely should have a choice in being vaccinated or not.

But society should be able to make the choice on if your potentially disease-ridden ass should be able to participate in anything public. Wanna be unvaccinated? Stay home and dont leave until you do.
 

prag16

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American life expectancy is already on the decline and my best guess is it is going to get worse before it gets better.
And things like allergies, asthma, chronic autoimmune issues, etc are drastically rising. I don't know if it's pesticides, heavy metals, vaccines, sunspots, SJWs, or what, but I'm disappointed that our allegedly unassailably brilliant science/medical community hasn't figured it out yet.

Yes
I think they can enjoy using their personal days feeling like shit.
Anecdotal, but THREE coworkers called out sick for a day over the last two weeks the day after getting their flu shot.

But are you up to date on your CDC recommended adult schedule? Immunity from many of the vaccines wanes. When's the last time you've had your titers checked?
 
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Anecdotal, but THREE coworkers called out sick for a day over the last two weeks the day after getting their flu shot.

But are you up to date on your CDC recommended adult schedule? Immunity from many of the vaccines wanes. When's the last time you've had your titers checked?
I get my shots every flu season, and never had a problem. 2 years ago I forgot, and spent 2 days being too sick to drive a truck.

Think about that, I was too sick to safely operate a commercial vehicle. I was cold as hell in a Floridian April with the heat on, and the Windows up
 

Zefah

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Jan 7, 2007
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This, for me. A government that has the authority to force injections into children without parental consent has the authority to... force injections into children without parental consent. That includes drugs for adhd, hormone blockers, and anything else eventually deemed a moral / ethical / societal good.

Events like this will self regulate the populace. Yes, I realize that causes harm, but so does empowering the state in this way, further eroding the role of the parent, further empowering the responsibility of the state to raise your child in your stead.

At what point would we jail parents who refuse? Take their children away for 'neglect' or 'abuse'? Look at adhd and gender hormones for dangerous tales. Is this the government we want? If they can remove our children because we disagree with the state regarding medical care, what else will the State eventually decree verboten? Because we should not accept a State that can remove our children because they believe we are flat out wrong, or misinformed, on a topic. Slippery slopes are real.

It's a fringe, serious topic, so I understand the desires on both sides. But I can not condone a state being given this power.
Yeah, it would definitely be a dangerous precedent. At the same time, I'm fine with institutions like schools denying access to people who have chosen to not be vaccinated.
 

prag16

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Yeah, it would definitely be a dangerous precedent. At the same time, I'm fine with institutions like schools denying access to people who have chosen to not be vaccinated.
This is basically the same thing though. The vast majority of people can't afford to homeschool, and in many (most?) states private schools fall under the same government regulation with regard to this as public schools (and most people can't afford private schools anyway in either case).

School mandates for all intents and purposes are equal to what we should be afraid of, or at least directly lead to it. They'll go after homeschool families next, and adult mandates may not be far behind. If we set this precedent the government has this absolute power in this area, it means nothing good for the future. Prepare to show ze papers any time you enter a public space, komrade. For the reich!
 
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Settle down, Scrappy Doo lmao

Perhaps concede that you absolutely should have a choice in being vaccinated or not.

But society should be able to make the choice on if your potentially disease-ridden ass should be able to participate in anything public. Wanna be unvaccinated? Stay home and dont leave until you do.
No. And fuck off with that scrappy doo shit.
 
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I get my shots every flu season, and never had a problem. 2 years ago I forgot, and spent 2 days being too sick to drive a truck.

Think about that, I was too sick to safely operate a commercial vehicle. I was cold as hell in a Floridian April with the heat on, and the Windows up
Every year the Flu shot has only a percentage of chance working. Because you get lucky doesn’t mean others will too.

Big greasy world out there.
 
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Every year the Flu shot has only a percentage of chance working. Because you get lucky doesn’t mean others will too.

Big greasy world out there.
Have you ever been so sick you might as well been drunk? I was that sick, driving back through Orlando when I probably shouldn't have. At first I thought I was just feeling like shit, then I felt chilled in a Florida summer day with the heat on.

Get your goddamned flu shots people, nobody has time for being sick.
 
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prag16

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Is this an argument against getting the flu shot? I'm not sure what your point here is.
I won't answer for him, but here's the reality: The flu shot is a low efficacy proposition (both in absolute terms, and in comparison to other vaccines, which also aren't perfect in this department) which causes side effects in a lot of people (to a much greater extent than most other vaccines, which also aren't perfect in this department either). Pushing something this deficient vigorously and universally, one size fits all, is not something I can get on board with, especially if and when it is done at the point of a government gun.
 
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oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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More like joking. Really, it's that anti-vaxxers have an extremely selfish view of the world where they don't even consider that their decisions put others at risk.
Yeah, isn’t it interesting how you are always joking about how people you disagree with want to hurt people. Keep your projecting to yourself.

No. And fuck off with that scrappy doo shit.
Yes. If you aren’t going to get vaccinated, stay the hell from us.
 
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Blood Borne

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even though I do believe in vaccinations, after all I did get my kids vaccinated, I support the anti-vaxxer movement from an anti-government perspective.
Government mandated injections is a big no-no for me. It sets the precedence for mandated chip in arm. Fuck that.
 

Teletraan1

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Have you ever been so sick you might as well been drunk? I was that sick, driving back through Orlando when I probably shouldn't have. At first I thought I was just feeling like shit, then I felt chilled in a Florida summer day with the heat on.

Get your goddamned flu shots people, nobody has time for being sick.
I am vaccinated but I have never gotten a single flu shot. I usually only get sick maybe once a year, usually a very strong flu that rips through my sisters kids and my mom that all have flu shots, I don't even take anything for it other than some vitamin C and it is usually gone in under 24 hours while it lingers with them for days. I feel building up your immune system works better than flu shots as your body has a better chance at fighting off tough flus that aren't even covered by the shots.
 
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Have you ever been so sick you might as well been drunk? I was that sick, driving back through Orlando when I probably shouldn't have. At first I thought I was just feeling like shit, then I felt chilled in a Florida summer day with the heat on.

Get your goddamned flu shots people, nobody has time for being sick.
Yes. I’ve been so sick I sweat through blankets while feeling like I was in the arctic circle. Twice. Once off the flu and once off of food poisoning from a Chinese restaurant.

It ain’t fun. And I never said I wouldn’t take a shot or others shouldn’t. But it doesn’t always stop the strain you get sick off of and sometimes you get sick before you get the shot.
 

prag16

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Government mandated injections is a big no-no for me. It sets the precedence for mandated chip in arm. Fuck that.
This is exactly why we should all be opposing any kind of vaccine mandates, regardless of how we feel about vaccines. This is a grotesque government overreach that can lead to some very ugly places. Right now they're just trying to remove non-medical exemptions for school children. Might not seem SO terrible to most people, but it's all part of moving that overton window.

And I'm also not sure why we can all curse the pharmaceutical industry up and down, in every other respect. But with regard to vaccines... they've found Jesus! Completely 100% above reproach! It's a weird double standard. (Pay NO attention to the regulatory capture taking place at the CDC and FDA, the fact that these products are the only one not subject to any sort of legal liability of there are any problems... anybody noticing these aspects is just an evil antivaxxer who should have their kids take away, right?)
 

Eiknarf

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I understand why people get upset about anti-vaxxers but this is even more "my body, my choice" than abortion in my opinion. I got all my vaccines as well as my kids but forcing people to inject things into their body's against their will is pretty disgusting to me. This is my motherfucking temple and nobody gets to tell me what goes in it.
first of all
vaccines are for kids
And second of all
When it involves the well being of everyone else around you in our society, it’s no longer about “you and your body/your temple”
 

nemiroff

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Edit: Nevermind.

Fuck anti-vaxxers. And I have no problem telling it to your face.
 
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AFreekinKing

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Im not an anti vaxxer but I see all you who think you’re too good or too smart and someday you’re going to be fooled by something and it might devastate you or your life and you might then be able to put yourselves in the shoes of those who ask questions or have concerns.


first of all
vaccines are for kids
And second of all
When it involves the well being of everyone else around you in our society, it’s no longer about “you and your body/your temple”
first of all I know vaccines are for kids. Not sure what you think you’re correcting. There’s also vaccines given to adults and I got a bunch as an adult in the army.

Second of all we’re all going to die and you might even die from a communicable disease. That’s life.
 
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I bet many of you who are anti-vaxxers think this way because:

1. Nobody in your fam has got a serious case of illness that was preventable

2. You were already vaccinated with shots when you were somewhere between a toddler and in grade school (and don't remember it), so that's why you've never got anything shit like Polio or measles

3. Probably don't have kids. So anything to do with illnesses spread by kids in school is a non-factor

4. Have a strong anti-gov view on things in general......... mandatory things like car insurance, fire alarms, anti/restrictive gun laws etc.... are a big no-no

So what happens is you see nothing wrong, and assume vaccines are useless. That's like me assuming smoke alarms are useless because I've never had a fire and nobody I know has had a house burn down. But when everyone follows the law of smoke detectors, the collective whole cuts down on smoke and fires, instead of everyone trying to wing it.

Just give these a quick skim and you'll understand:

 
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prag16

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I bet many of you who are anti-vaxxers think this way because:

1. Nobody in your fam has got a serious case of illness that was preventable

2. You were already vaccinated with shots when you were somewhere between a toddler and in grade school (and don't remember it), so that's why you've never got anything shit like Polio or measles

3. Probably don't have kids. So anything to do with illnesses spread by kids in school is a non-factor

So what happens is you see nothing wrong, and assume vaccines are useless. That's like me assuming smoke alarms are useless because I've never had a fire and nobody I know has had a house burn down. But when everyone follows the law of smoke detectors, the collective whole cuts down on smoke and fires, instead of everyone trying to wing it.

Just give these a quick skim and you'll understand:

This "antivaxxer" blanket term is stupid. Anybody who has any degree of a concern is automatically an "antivaxxer", even if it's as simple as you don't think you need a flu shot, or don't want to give newborns a shot for an STD on first day of birth. What about people who just question the fact that we've gone from like 12 doses to 70+ in the past 30 years? And conveniently that parabolic increase followed shortly after legal liability was removed from vaccines (in 1986), unlike every other pharmaceutical product. Not to mention the lack of any double blind placebo controlled studies for any of them (or any studies examining the impact of the full sum total of the current schedule). I'm sure most of you think there's no WAY that can be true, but it is. Yes yes they've been "studied extensively etc etc etc", but the fact is they are not held to the same standard as every other pharmaceutical product in existence.

But no, a discussion can't even be had. Bullshit. The old quote comes to mind, maybe Voltaire, too lazy to look it up, something like "To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize." We're too quick to trust the government, and the pharmaceutical companies for some reason (who we usually DON'T trust.. except in this ONE area).

I think vaccines have done a lot of good and are obviously a good concept. But this nonsense where a discussion can't even be had, and we should empower the government to inject people with shit against their will, is basically Nazi Germany all over again. It's distressing to me that some posters I usually agree with (and usually seem very rational, and against authoritarian/totalitarian bullshit) can't see this.
 
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prag16

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Have you considered the possibility that the irrational one is you?
Yes. Have you?

And as you can see I'm clearly not on an island; several others in this topic have reservations as well.

How about this one. Have you considered the possibility that governments, and pharmaceutical companies, mislead us on occasion?
 
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This "antivaxxer" blanket term is stupid. Anybody who has any degree of a concern is automatically an "antivaxxer", even if it's as simple as you don't think you need a flu shot, or don't want to give newborns a shot for an STD on first day of birth. What about people who just question the fact that we've gone from like 12 doses to 70+ in the past 30 years? And conveniently that parabolic increase followed shortly after legal liability was removed from vaccines (in 1986), unlike every other pharmaceutical product. Not to mention the lack of any double blind placebo controlled studies for any of them (or any studies examining the impact of the full sum total of the current schedule). I'm sure most of you think there's no WAY that can be true, but it is. Yes yes they've been "studied extensively etc etc etc", but the fact is they are not held to the same standard as every other pharmaceutical product in existence.

But no, a discussion can't even be had. Bullshit. The old quote comes to mind, maybe Voltaire, too lazy to look it up, something like "To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize." We're too quick to trust the government, and the pharmaceutical companies for some reason (who we usually DON'T trust.. except in this ONE area).

I think vaccines have done a lot of good and are obviously a good concept. But this nonsense where a discussion can't even be had, and we should empower the government to inject people with shit against their will, is basically Nazi Germany all over again. It's distressing to me that some posters I usually agree with (and usually seem very rational, and against authoritarian/totalitarian bullshit) can't see this.
I don't think pro-vaccine people are saying go overboard taking a million vax shots covering every vaccine created. Just go by whatever the city or school suggests as a minimum. There's actually only so many vaccines anyway. And probably half are done by the time someone is 5 years old. So it's not some eternal struggle of vax shots every month till your 80 years old.

It's not hard.

The majority of illnesses covered by vaccines are contagious, making it important too.

It's like car and house insurance. All supporters (including the gov) ask for is reasonable coverage where people put in effort to not screw things up for others. Nobody is expecting someone to buy a $400 smoke alarm with built in Alexa voice commands, or get the most complete home insurance plan that covers against meteors and Godzilla.
 
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In the two centuries since vaccines were first developed, over a dozen of what used to be the most common infectious diseases have practically been eradicated, according to data compiled by the Centers for Diseases Control. The dramatic impact of vaccinations on Americans’ health is illustrated in an infographic compiled by designer Leon Farrant (“morbidity” refers to the number of people getting sick from, but not necessarily dying of, the diseases):

Of course, vaccines only safeguard Americans’ health when they’re taken effectively. Although children typically have to stick to a vaccination schedule in order to attend school, there’s no system currently in place to ensure that adults get their recommended vaccines — and the CDC warns that “unacceptably low” numbers of American adults are getting their shots for diseases like influenza, pertussis, and HPV.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association, the CDC, the EPA, and doctors and scientists around the world all agree that vaccines are safe. But some pockets of resistance still remain, and persistent myths about vaccines may dissuade some Americans from getting the shots they need.
 
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prag16

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I don't think pro-vaccine people are saying go overboard taking a million vax shots covering every vaccine created. Just go by whatever the city or school suggests as a minimum. There's actually only so many vaccines anyway. And probably half are done by the time someone is 5 years old. So it's not some eternal struggle of vax shots every month till your 80 years old.

It's not hard.

The majority of illnesses covered by vaccines are contagious, making it important too.

It's like car and house insurance. All supporters (including the gov) ask for is reasonable coverage where people put in effort to not screw things up for others. Nobody is expecting someone to buy a $400 smoke alarm with built in Alexa voice commands, or get the most complete home insurance plan that covers against meteors and Godzilla.
I had a better response that my browser crashed and ate, so I'll keep this one more brief. All your examples don't rise to the level of forcibly injecting shit into people.

This idea that all dissent needs to be censored and shouted down is dangerous. People are branded heretics just for spacing shots out, or refusing annual (often useless) flu shots. Anyway, the burden of proof needs to be on the people who are in favor of the mandatory medical procedures. Not the other way around. Nobody reasonable denies vaccines played a major role in reducing disease (that said, the role of other factors working in parallel seem to be minimized, factors like improved nutrition, hygeine, indoor plumbing, etc; a lot of these had disease and especially death rates on steep decline even before vaccines even entered the picture.... and other similar diseases such as scarlett fever were eradicated without ever having a vaccine available).

Have any of you totalitarians ever actually read any vaccine package inserts (I'm assuming not since you won't like what you find)? Why are vaccines the only (as far as I know) consumer product not subject to any kind of legal liability whatsoever? Why aren't vaccines held to the same safety/testing standards as every other pharmaceutical product?
 
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I had a better response that my browser crashed and ate, so I'll keep this one more brief. All your examples don't rise to the level of forcibly injecting shit into people.

This idea that all dissent needs to be censored and shouted down is dangerous. People are branded heretics just for spacing shots out, or refusing annual (often useless) flu shots. Anyway, the burden of proof needs to be on the people who are in favor of the mandatory medical procedures. Not the other way around. Nobody reasonable denies vaccines played a major role in reducing disease (that said, the role of other factors working in parallel seem to be minimized, factors like improved nutrition, hygeine, indoor plumbing, etc; a lot of these had disease and especially death rates on steep decline even before vaccines even entered the picture.... and other similar diseases such as scarlett fever were eradicated without ever having a vaccine available).

Have any of you totalitarians ever actually read any vaccine package inserts (I'm assuming not since you won't like what you find)? Why are vaccines the only (as far as I know) consumer product not subject to any kind of legal liability whatsoever? Why aren't vaccines held to the same safety/testing standards as every other pharmaceutical product?
Sure they are held to the same standards. FDA approval.

There's no legal liability? I found these in 2 minutes. The government seems to have taken over legal lawsuits. The gov wants a stable supply of vaccines, whereas as some drug companies getting sued like beforehand making drug companies think about pulling out from supplying vaccines.
 

lyan

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I had a better response that my browser crashed and ate, so I'll keep this one more brief. All your examples don't rise to the level of forcibly injecting shit into people.

This idea that all dissent needs to be censored and shouted down is dangerous. People are branded heretics just for spacing shots out, or refusing annual (often useless) flu shots. Anyway, the burden of proof needs to be on the people who are in favor of the mandatory medical procedures. Not the other way around. Nobody reasonable denies vaccines played a major role in reducing disease (that said, the role of other factors working in parallel seem to be minimized, factors like improved nutrition, hygeine, indoor plumbing, etc; a lot of these had disease and especially death rates on steep decline even before vaccines even entered the picture.... and other similar diseases such as scarlett fever were eradicated without ever having a vaccine available).

Have any of you totalitarians ever actually read any vaccine package inserts (I'm assuming not since you won't like what you find)? Why are vaccines the only (as far as I know) consumer product not subject to any kind of legal liability whatsoever? Why aren't vaccines held to the same safety/testing standards as every other pharmaceutical product?
Then people should voice their concern and focus on improving the regulation of existing and future vaccines as a product, not go against vaccination as a regime because all I hear from antivaxxers is "my body".
 
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Then people should voice their concern and focus on improving the regulation of existing and future vaccines as a product, not go against vaccination as a regime because all I hear from antivaxxers is "my body".
It's a selfish thing. Also, cowardly. Probably too chicken to get a needle.

The funny thing is just about everyone has got vaccinations of some sort. It's just that when youre 2 years old you don't remember it.

I bet there's hardly anyone on this board right now born in Canada, the US, UK or any other country with easy access to vaccinations having anything like measles, polio, chicken pox, or any of the common illnesses that people got in the early 1900s. Maybe for anyone on this board who is 70 year old might have had this, but I'm confident anyone who is 50 years old or younger on GAF (including your friends and fam 50 or younger too) have never got any weird shit people got when the best show in TV at the time was Leave it to Beaver.

People take it for granted thinking they are Superman and "I never get sick". Part of that is because you already got a vax when they were busy sucking mom's tit, so those kinds of illnesses are super rare now.

As for the "it's my body part", it;s winter so that reminds me. It's like those asstards who don't shovel their sidewalk. It's actually law to do so, but no city is going to fine people for it. So some asses will never shovel. And if a kid slips on ice, they don't give a shit because "Well, who cares. As long as I didn't slip, fuck em".
 

AFreekinKing

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Then people should voice their concern and focus on improving the regulation of existing and future vaccines as a product, not go against vaccination as a regime because all I hear from antivaxxers is "my body".
Why do you think we're discussing this? I haven't seen an actual anti-vaxxer in this thread but there are a lot of assholes trying to label people in this thread as anti vaxxers.

If you don't give a shit about your body I am sure that we could use more volunteers for human drug and medical trials. Just go volunteer, or do you actually care about your body?

The idea that "my body" is a bad argument is fucking stupid.

MY BODY IS THE ONLY THING THAT IS MINE AND I WILL PROTECT IT AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC
 

prag16

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Sure they are held to the same standards. FDA approval.
Common misconception so I don't blame you. But you have to go deeper. The FDA approval process for vaccines is not the same as for prescription drugs. They have rationalizations as to why it is done that way, which can be another discussion, but the fact remains they are not held to the same standard.

Not a SINGLE vaccine on the current recommended childhood schedule (other than maybe Gardasil, but that's a stretch, and there were other issues with its licensing) has been tested against an inert placebo. They are all tested against either other vaccine(s), or against everything in the vaccine EXCEPT the antigen. For some current vaccines, there WAS no control group. So for anyone with questions about say aluminium toxicity, sorry, bad luck. There is no answer. Most drugs are subject to studies in which subjects are monitored or followed for years. For vaccines it can be as little as weeks or even days, certainly not enough to detect any sort of chronic conditions. So we don't really know if the schedule causes any problems. Proper gold standard studies largely haven't been done. And right on the package inserts, numerous documented reactions and side effects are listed.

If you want to really get into the weeds, this is pretty intriguing: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/ican-reply-december-31-2018.pdf
There's no legal liability? I found these in 2 minutes. The government seems to have taken over legal lawsuits. The gov wants a stable supply of vaccines, whereas as some drug companies getting sued like beforehand making drug companies think about pulling out from supplying vaccines.
Yes. Exactly. They essentially "nationalized" vaccine liability, and then made the bar much higher to get payouts than you would generally ever see in the courts normally for other types of drugs. When there are vaccine lawsuits, the federal government is the defendant. Not the company producing the vaccine. This is an outrageous conflict of interests. The regulatory agencies don't have incentive to expand safety research, because that research could then yield information that would make NVICP payouts easier to get (yes, this is a thing that has happened, and this was even the argument used). And consequently the vaccine manufacturers don't have incentive to improve their product. They have a captive audience in which the government recommends/mandates their products, and then also assumes liability for them. This doesn't even get into the revolving door between pharma/CDC/FDA. This is regulatory capture.

This touches on a lot of the concern, more eloquently than I can:
Vaccination as a concept is a good idea, and most people probably do fine with it (probably... though the jury is out on even that until we figure out the cause of the parabolic rise in chronic illness over the past 30 years (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20159870, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1876285910002500). But it's a massive one-size-fits all proposition, and enforcing this at the tip of the proverbial Roman spear, is totalitarian. Especially when what I've detailed here is enough for at least reasonable doubt.
 
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daveonezero

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If y’all are so afraid of unvaccinated people then why don’t you stay out of public places and let the adults go outside.

It’s not like vaccines are going to rid the world of getting sick.
 
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Eiknarf

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If y’all are so afraid of unvaccinated people then why don’t you stay out of public places and let the adults go outside.

It’s not like vaccines are going to rid the world of getting sick.
Oh. this is a special kind of RETARD response.

Its called Herd Immunity

When the majority of a population is vaccinated, it renders the disease moot

Its when a population is protected from a disease after vaccination by stopping the germ responsible for the infection being transmitted between people. In this way even people who cannot be vaccinated can be protected.
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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You can't have a serious discussion about public health policy without talking about immigration. It does no good to eradicate polio for instance, if you're going to allow half the third world to stream into your country. Then suddenly oops, polio is back, wow how did that happen? It's a real head-scratcher, huh?

Basically, if we didn't have open borders we wouldn't need to be vaccine nazis.
 
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AFreekinKing

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You can't have a serious discussion about public health policy without talking about immigration. It does no good to eradicate polio for instance, if you're going to allow half the third world to stream into your country. Then suddenly oops, polio is back, wow how did that happen? It's a real head-scratcher, huh?

Basically, if we didn't have open borders we wouldn't need to be vaccine nazis.
I didn't think about that but the illegal immigrant population would likely be the most vulnerable to these if they didn't get vaccinated before coming here. They would also be the most likely carriers.

+1 for sensible immigration controls
 

Lamel

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I believe fully in vaccinations

However, I am very suspect that the left is pushing it the hardest. I can't remember the last thing that went through their agenda machine that I agreed with. That alone makes me want to unbelieve in them.
Endangering your health to own the libs.

For those panicking about anti-vaxxers "infecting their kids:" How is this possible if YOUR kids are vaccinated?
Some people can't get vaccinated, due to immunodeficiencies and allergies, and rely on herd immunity. Those who are vaccinated are protected, but herd immunity fails if a significant portion of the populace is unvaccinated. Some vaccines (such as the flu), also don't have 100% efficacy, in which case the higher the vaccination rate the better the spread can be curbed. Do some research.
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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Dec 18, 2018
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"Do some research"...lol

So do you think all the Guatemalans, Hondurans etc etc coming over the border are fully vaccinated? Are you comfortable with them bringing in whatever diseases thy have?
 

Lamel

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Nov 2, 2009
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"Do some research"...lol

So do you think all the Guatemalans, Hondurans etc etc coming over the border are fully vaccinated? Are you comfortable with them bringing in whatever diseases thy have?
Are you asking if I'm comfortable with the fact that infectious diseases exist?
 
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RealGassy

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Sep 22, 2019
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This "antivaxxer" blanket term is stupid. Anybody who has any degree of a concern is automatically an "antivaxxer", even if it's as simple as you don't think you need a flu shot, or don't want to give newborns a shot for an STD on first day of birth. What about people who just question the fact that we've gone from like 12 doses to 70+ in the past 30 years? And conveniently that parabolic increase followed shortly after legal liability was removed from vaccines (in 1986), unlike every other pharmaceutical product. Not to mention the lack of any double blind placebo controlled studies for any of them (or any studies examining the impact of the full sum total of the current schedule). I'm sure most of you think there's no WAY that can be true, but it is. Yes yes they've been "studied extensively etc etc etc", but the fact is they are not held to the same standard as every other pharmaceutical product in existence.

But no, a discussion can't even be had. Bullshit. The old quote comes to mind, maybe Voltaire, too lazy to look it up, something like "To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize." We're too quick to trust the government, and the pharmaceutical companies for some reason (who we usually DON'T trust.. except in this ONE area).

I think vaccines have done a lot of good and are obviously a good concept. But this nonsense where a discussion can't even be had, and we should empower the government to inject people with shit against their will, is basically Nazi Germany all over again. It's distressing to me that some posters I usually agree with (and usually seem very rational, and against authoritarian/totalitarian bullshit) can't see this.
Yes, I've come to the same conclusion.
I didn't pay attention to the whole "anti-vaxxer" shit, because I thought it's a bunch of internet loonies.
But after "looking into it" I found that some of the arguments that "anti-vaxxers" make are factually true and valid.

It's not so much about avoiding all vaccines altogether, it's more of an issue regarding vaccine safety and paying attention to additives used (which are often highly toxic and poisonous)

There's no question regarding toxicity of compounds used, it's a question of whether those compounds are in "small enough" quantities to do no significant damage.

It's things like taking single-dose vials over multi-dose vials, because multi-dose vials have toxic preservatives (mercury) - and are overall simply a cost saving measure.

And reducing the total amount of vaccines taken (say by combinding multiple things in one shot) and similar. Especially as it pertains to infants taking fuckton of shots in short span of time.

Thanks to those very same "anti-vaxxer nutters" rising concerns is why Thiomersal is phased out in EU for routine childhood vaccines.
 
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NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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I do not wish to believe that in 2019 anti-vaxxers are a thing. This is not social theory. There is a long and documented history of people dying or being left in horrible conditions due to viruses which we can now prevent.
 

RealGassy

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Sep 22, 2019
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I do not wish to believe that in 2019 anti-vaxxers are a thing. This is not social theory. There is a long and documented history of people dying or being left in horrible conditions due to viruses which we can now prevent.
Just like any movement, anti-vaxxers have a certain amount of... valid arguments that are not getting addressed.

How are fat people and diabetes even a thing in 2019? It's been known like forever and it isn't a mystery what you have to eat not to get fat, but yet here we are.

US truly is a very special place.
 

prag16

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Jul 12, 2012
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I do not wish to believe that in 2019 anti-vaxxers are a thing. This is not social theory. There is a long and documented history of people dying or being left in horrible conditions due to viruses which we can now prevent.
See my post above with the RFK, Jr. links. That is why antivaxxers are a thing in 2019. There are issues, or potential issues, that are not being sufficiently addressed or answered for. Instead of addressing all of that head on in order to address the questions and restore trust and confidence in the vaccine program, proponents obfuscate, hand wave, or simply shout down or vilify.

And aggressive efforts by largely Democrats in several states to take away exemptions and strengthen mandates have possibly harmed their 'cause' more than helped. They've drawn extra attention to the antivaxxers and more and more people are stopping to question things. I don't have proof of this, but I'd bet this heavy handed totalitarian approach has created more antivaxxers than it has converted, and the easiest way to keep that small percentage from growing would have been to just leave them alone.

The harder way to keep that small percentage from growing would be to sack up, clean up the incestuous government/pharma dynamic, and get to work *actually* proving vaccines are safe and effective the same way they are required to do with every other damn pharmaceutical product.

But instead of either of those two paths, they've chosen tyranny. If we let them get away with this, we may not like where that slope leads.
 

daveonezero

Member
Nov 19, 2018
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Oh. this is a special kind of RETARD response.

Its called Herd Immunity

When the majority of a population is vaccinated, it renders the disease moot

Its when a population is protected from a disease after vaccination by stopping the germ responsible for the infection being transmitted between people. In this way even people who cannot be vaccinated can be protected.
Love it. Personal attacks. Right after people telling me to not go outside by force the response is my lack of intelligence.

What happened to logic and science? Not working for you. If you want to convince me that this is actually true go for it.

Apparently it isn’t working though because you have no examples of this herd theory actually eradicating a disease. Since the best examples of vaccinations being successful are also the same examples of why people should be getting vaccines.

I personally would rather not be a sheep in the herd in the first place.

Especially if they are made up of authoritarian sheep like you. Good thing I’m not too worried about people like you. They are usually dependent on other authorities to get shit done for them.
 

Teletraan1

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May 17, 2012
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Actual immunization against real diseases I support, most immunizations have a high success rate as shown above and only need to be taken a limited number of times, usually only once. But because I don't take a flu shot seasonally with a 40-60% success rate I am labelled an anti vaxxer? All flu shots do is train your body how to fight very specific influenza pathogens, they don't totally prevent others from getting that flu from you although the chances are somewhat reduced. I have found it better to let the body figure it out on its own over the the last 43 years and I barely ever get sick from a flu and definitely less than the 10 people in my life that are religious about flu shots. When they hit a flu not accounted for in the shot they all get hit 10x as hard as I do if I even get sick at all. They might as well have temporary aids for how poorly their own bodies are trained to fight off pathogens. The fact there are people who get upset at others for not getting low success flu shots that don't prevent the spread of the flu is hilarious to me. If they came up with an immunization that I took when I was a kid, it had a 85%+ success rate and prevented the spread of the flu to others I would be on board.
 

Eiknarf

Member
Mar 25, 2019
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Love it. Personal attacks. Right after people telling me to not go outside by force the response is my lack of intelligence.

What happened to logic and science? Not working for you. If you want to convince me that this is actually true go for it.

Apparently it isn’t working though because you have no examples of this herd theory actually eradicating a disease. Since the best examples of vaccinations being successful are also the same examples of why people should be getting vaccines.

I personally would rather not be a sheep in the herd in the first place.

Especially if they are made up of authoritarian sheep like you. Good thing I’m not too worried about people like you. They are usually dependent on other authorities to get shit done for them.
Wrong
Where’s the personal attack?

I called the response retarded. Not you.

Learn how to read
 
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lyan

Member
May 21, 2017
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Why do you think we're discussing this? I haven't seen an actual anti-vaxxer in this thread but there are a lot of assholes trying to label people in this thread as anti vaxxers.

If you don't give a shit about your body I am sure that we could use more volunteers for human drug and medical trials. Just go volunteer, or do you actually care about your body?

The idea that "my body" is a bad argument is fucking stupid.

MY BODY IS THE ONLY THING THAT IS MINE AND I WILL PROTECT IT AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC
I am vaccinated because I care about my body, to protect myself from my real foreign micro enemies. You can't do whatever you want in your basement if it endangers your neighbourhood because "My Home".
For the record I'm not talking about things like flu shots and I'm in total agreement if we focus on measures to improve existing regulations.
 

eot

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Apr 13, 2012
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I believe fully in vaccinations

However, I am very suspect that the left is pushing it the hardest. I can't remember the last thing that went through their agenda machine that I agreed with. That alone makes me want to unbelieve in them.
This is the definition of a bias right here. People you don't like can be right about some things.