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[molnizzle]

The idea that white people don't understand how generalizations work when they're made about them is laughable to me. Sorry.

Do two wrongs make a right?

 

[LizardKing]

Because one group is extremely disproportionately arrested and jailed. We showed you the stats, man.

You not understanding why that disparity is so important and relevant is on you, not us. You can continue to dismiss bringing black issues to light as honest black issues as divisive all you want, all that's really telling me is you personally don't care about them, not that you've found some sort of logical key to winning over a country. Show some work and solutions if winning over a country is your goal! (It is, right? It's not just a forum argument?)

Your logic is really so twisted I can't reconcile an appropriate response that would address your accusations against me as well as effectively convey my stance that would also address your assumptions about me.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Do two wrongs make a right?

This line doesn't work in a country where decades of wrongs have never been righted by any proposed solution or change.

(Also it doesn't even really make sense with what you're responding to.)

 

[Gattsu25]

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

Exactly. This video literally says if you're black then our drug policy is a problem. If you're white it isn't.

Uhh, fellas.. you know that when she introduces the brown egg that she literally says "However, this American is several times more likely to be charged with a drug crime."

So at worst you can fault this ad for expecting its viewers to not be slackjawed idiots who can figure out that if [Category2] is more likely to have something happen than [Category1] that MUST mean that thing can also happen to [Category1] but just at a lower rate.

It expects logic out of the viewers.

And all that literally in the first 15 seconds of the bloody ad.

https://youtu.be/AKXN6Vdr3g0?t=9


Re-examine why you are catching feelings and hearing a message the ad never said.

 

[The Kree]

Do two wrongs make a right?

Are both wrongs equal? Am I even talking about wrongs with that statement you're responding to?

 

[Fenderputty]

the video is advocating for changing the war on drugs.

The reality is, if you never do drugs, then you never get involved with the war in the first place.

The actual reality is, your insistence that people don't do drugs isnt .... realistic

 

[LizardKing]

Uhh, fellas.. you know that when she introduces the brown egg that she literally says "However, this American is several times more likely to be charged with a drug crime."

So at worst you can fault this ad for expecting its viewers to not be slackjawed idiots who can figure out that if [Category2] is more likely to have something happen than [Category1] that MUST mean that thing can also happen to [Category1] but just at a lower rate.

It expects logic out of the viewers.

And all that literally in the first 15 seconds of the bloody ad.

https://youtu.be/AKXN6Vdr3g0?t=9


Re-examine why you are catching feelings and hearing a message the ad never said.

She literally smashes the white family who "got away" with using drugs saying this is how you feel and you want to say it's not divisive? Lol.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Strong video, good stuff.

She literally smashes the white family who "got away" with using drugs saying this is how you feel and you want to say it's not divisive? Lol.

The truth is often divisive to those who don't want to hear it.

Sad we had to comment on her looks so quickly....I don't want to add to that, but now I feel I have to say she still looks great to me.

Will this ad air on TV? I really hope so.

She looks absolutely fine, most people with the snippy hot takes on how unattractive she is to them are probably the same dudes who frequent the dating help thread and make threads from the bathroom saying "guys help, she asked me what my hobbies are".

 

[AlexFlame116]

really? you reduced one the 90's iconic teen hearth throbs into the voice of Tifa?

Or how about this mate. Maybe, just maybe, I had just realized that she, an actress that I knew before from various things not including the drug commercial, also voiced a character from a game that I had JUST PLAYED recently (Kingdom Hearts II) that I had no idea about until now because I never bothered to make the connection when I was younger because I didn't care who did the voice of what character back then???

I swear some of you guys immediately assume the worst when it comes to things. Yes I know who Rachel Leigh Cook is from previous works. No I had no idea that she voiced Tifa until recently. I was gladly surprised at it.

Sheesh.

 

[molnizzle]

Are both wrongs equal? Am I even talking about wrongs with that statement you're responding to?

Of course not. Not even close.

...but you can understand how some would interpret it as such. And the fact remains, white people do still make up the majority of this country. You're not getting anything passed without at least some support from them.

I don't personally take any issue with this video, but I've never been personally affected by the war on drugs. But I do have a very-white friend from high school currently rotting in a cell because of cocaine possession. I imagine he'd probably react poorly to this ad, and he'll still be able to vote when he's finally released.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Your logic is really so twisted I can't reconcile an appropriate response that would address your accusations against me as well as effectively convey my stance that would also address your assumptions about me.

In almost every post, I've been asking you in some way to care about the subject itself. Instead, you've continually posited that people won't care if you don't present them stats that patronize white people. Do you see how this enables, supports, promotes, and showcases white supremacy? The idea that nothing can be done in this country unless you placate white people into caring?

I'm expecting you to have anything productive to say about seeing stats that all 50 states arrest black people over drugs from 1.5x to around ~20x as many as whites, despite the races taking the drugs at around the same rates. This should shock you to your core and put you into action over it, but you're here telling us that a RLC ad talking about eggs is wrong.

 

[msdstc]

The first commercial is tacky af, but the message is basically don't do heroin.

 

[LizardKing]

The truth is often divisive to those who don't want to hear it.

So as someone who lements our drug policy, votes against it and is firmly on the side of reform, you want to smash me because I'm white and have used drugs? What if I was those other things but hadn't used drugs?

In almost every post, I've been asking you in some way to care about the subject itself. Instead, you've continually posited that people won't care if you don't present them stats that patronize white people. Do you see how this enables, supports, promotes, and showcases white supremacy? The idea that nothing can be done in this country unless you placate white people into caring?

I'm expecting you to have anything productive to say about seeing stats that all 50 states arrest black people over drugs from 1.5x to around ~20x as many as whites, despite the races taking the drugs at around the same rates. This should shock you to your core and put you into action over it, but you're here telling us that a RLC ad talking about eggs is wrong.

We're just arguing about different things man. I've never said present stats about anyone. I agree with and am well aware of the stats of racial inequality. We're just not on the same page here with what my point is about the ad and I really don't know how I can be any clearer.

 

[Christhor]

That was pretty funny, 9/10.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I understand the purpose of the video but I think the message of the original is better.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the message of the original "Don't do drugs"?

Where the message of this new one is about how much of a failure the "war on drugs" has become?

Seems to me that the better message is to not do drugs in the first place.

 

[PAULINK]

The actual reality is, your insistence that people don't do drugs isnt .... realistic

For people who are already addicted? Probably. But I think there's another take home message from this video, stay the fuck away from doing drugs, the consequences are more likely if you're a minority.

 

[Gattsu25]

She literally smashes the white family who got away with using drugs saying this is how you feel and you want to say it's not divisive? Lol.

She's saying that minority communities are not blind to the unfair (and not-imagined but accurate and documented) fact that drug crime prosecution are based on ethnicity.. that those marginalized communities may start to feel animosity toward the community that doesn't suffer under the heel of that racist punishment.

Think back to the movie Do The Right Thing. Don't be someone that doesn't understand why Mookie threw the trash can.

 

[NullPointer]

Re-examine why you are catching feelings and hearing a message the ad never said.

She holds up the white egg and says it represents the millions who will use drugs and not get arrested. She then shows off a white egg family as another one that used drugs and never got caught.

There's no hedging there. White eggs don't get caught, don't get prosecuted, don't become felons and all the rest. Speaking as someone in a family of drug felons, I'm sure this spot wouldn't turn their opinions on the drug war around, because that would be crazy, but its not at all welcoming to them when it easily could be.

I get that even bringing this up makes some defensive, and that's part of the point. Its very easy to get defensive over these kinds of representations, and that isn't helpful.

That's all really. Some positive criticism. Hell I didn't even realize it at first.

 

[msdstc]

Marijuana just needs to be completely legalized. I still think we should fight heroin use though

 

[Messofanego]

Do two wrongs make a right?

I thought you said before you don't get offended anymore and don't take it as a personal attack, but felt the need to speak for other white people who do even though it wasn't relevant at the time. Now why are you making a fuss about generalisations?

From a few months ago:

White people still benefit, but not because they're willfully trying to suppress the rights of others. Our privilege is a side effect of things that occurred many years before our birth, things that were out of our control. I wish that slavery had never happened (and everything else that occurred afterward) but here we are.

It takes a reasonably intelligent, introspective individual to be able to see a comment about "their people" and not take it as a personal attack. I don't get offended when I see comments about white people now, but I used to. I consider myself to be fairly smart though. The vast majority of human beings... aren't. It shouldn't be a surprise that most respond harshly when they are singled out because of something out of their control.

...and yes, I realize that this is something minorities have faced for many years. That's kinda the point. Nobody likes to feel like that.

I know that no discussion about race is out there demonizing white people, but that's how it feels when you make generalized statements about "white people" as if we're a monolith. I'm not saying that you need to throw out caveats whenever you discuss this topic. I'm just saying that if you generalize that your struggles are the fault of "white people," some are going to take it as an attack. I'm sorry if you find that ridiculous but that's just the way it is.



I'm not trying to justify white fragility by any means. Just explaining why it exists, and why it likely won't go away without changing the way we talk about certain things. That's really the core of it, semantics. It's a stupid thing to get worked up over... but people are stupid. =/



This seems a bit hyperbolic though, honestly. We've got a long way to go but we're still making progress. It's not like we used to live in a society where gay people showed PDA openly, but we've now regressed to a more primitive culture. It's better for them now then it was even 5 years ago, and it will hopefully continue to get better despite the orange buffoon being in the White House.

The decision to bring a child into the world is an incredibly personal one so I hesitate to even bring it up. That's between you and your wife.

I'm not asking to be coddled or made comfortable. I'm not even asking that you stop making blanket generalizations. I'm just saying that if you do make blanket generalizations, some people are gonna take that as an attack. That shouldn't come as a surprise.

As for whether you "need" to converse with them or not, it's hard to say just how much of the white population of the U.S. falls into that demographic. I'm inclined to think it's a very large portion of it. Anecdotally, it seems that way. I do live in Texas though.

edit:

Not sure what I flip flopped on, but it was always my intent to explain why some white people feel attacked whenever blanket generalizations are made about them, so it shouldn't be a surprise (as it seems to be to some in this thread) when certain white folks take it as an attack.



I see posts like this all the time right here on NeoGAF. That's what I'm addressing here. Stuff like "Thanks a lot, white people." etc.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

We're just arguing about different things man. I've never said present stats about anyone. I agree with and am well aware of the stats of racial inequality. We're just not on the same page here with what my point is about the ad and I really don't know how I can be any clearer.

You're not clear.

For example, you suggest that the ad isn't fair to whites who don't fit its assumptions, but while doing so, you're happy to throw relevant black concerns and issues under the bus as divisive themselves. It just spells out to me that you don't have any personal skin in this game or else you'd understand how insulting that is. You're just thinking about your own community while telling white and black people to stop thinking about strictly black concerns since they can't be mainstreamed as easily.

You're actively dismissing that which you say can be actively dismissed by defensive white people. Of course. I hope you can be more self-aware of this.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What happened to her voice? Why is it so hoarse? She took up smoking or something?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Damn, that was scathing (and accurate). Good on her.

What happened to her voice? Why is it so hoarse? She took up smoking or something?

She's a 37 year old woman and no longer a teenager...?

@ some of the replies in this thread, JFC

 

[molnizzle]

I thought you said before you don't get offended anymore and don't take it as a personal attack, but felt the need to speak for other white people who do even though it wasn't relevant at the time. Now why are you making a fuss about generalisations?

From a few months ago:

How am I "making a fuss?" I feel like my posts in this thread align very closely with the ones you dug up to try and use against me.

 

[Socreges]

So as someone who lements our drug policy, votes against it and is firmly on the side of reform, you want to smash me because I'm white and have used drugs? What if I was those other things but hadn't used drugs?



We're just arguing about different things man. I've never said present stats about anyone. I agree with and am well aware of the stats of racial inequality. We're just not on the same page here with what my point is about the ad and I really don't know how I can be any clearer.

I think you're being clear. But I also think you're distorting the ad.

For example, the black 'white collar' eggs are also smashed. The 'black children' eggs are ALSO smashed.

You're taking a metaphor, which is used quite liberally in the commercial, and trying to twist it into some victimization bullshit against white people.

I am white. I didn't read into it as you did at all. The argument is made very clear at the beginning of the ad that it's about disproportional incarceration and disproportional consequences. The 'pan smash' cliché is used throughout to send this message home.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I thought you said before you don't get offended anymore and don't take it as a personal attack, but felt the need to speak for other white people who do even though it wasn't relevant at the time. Now why are you making a fuss about generalisations?

From a few months ago:

haha I love this.

 

[Snowybreak]

For people who are already addicted? Probably. But I think there's another take home message from this video, stay the fuck away from doing drugs, the consequences are more likely if you're a minority.

How about this? Remove the fucking useless laws that make doing drugs illegal. Society will never stop consuming mind altering substances. Plenty of us drink or use Prozac or smoke weed, that isn't going to change, and I think it's unrealistic to believe in a drug-free future. It's better to accept it as part of human existence and rebuild our views around it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

So as someone who lements our drug policy, votes against it and is firmly on the side of reform, you want to smash me because I'm white and have used drugs? What if I was those other things but hadn't used drugs?

Yea man, I totes want to smash your family with a skillet bro. TOTES

I know this is going to come as a huge surprise but yea there are millions of PoC who would absolutely love to see the same misfortunes befall white Americans in equal amount to PoC over drug use.

 

[Messofanego]

What happened to her voice? Why is it so hoarse? She took up smoking or something?

What does this have to do with anything? The video or topic isn't about her voice.

A dude on the first page got banned for making a joke about her age, btw.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

She's saying that minority communities are not blind to the unfair (and not-imagined but accurate and documented) fact that drug crime prosecution are based on ethnicity.. that those marginalized communities may start to feel animosity toward the community that doesn't suffer under the heel of that racist punishment.

Think back to the movie Do The Right Thing. Don't be someone that doesn't understand why Mookie threw the trash can.

YES.

 

[Aaronology]

She literally smashes the white family who "got away" with using drugs saying this is how you feel and you want to say it's not divisive? Lol.

Lol! Laugh out loud!

How about you actually address what Gattsu was replying to? His post is not primarily making a statement in either direction about the divisiveness or lack thereof of this ad. What he is doing is bringing attention to the idiotic claims made by posters who, like yourself, rushed to comment without actually bothering to listen and understand what is being said.

And if you're going to cry about divisiveness maybe direct your energy and ire towards what this message is attempting to bring to so many people's attention, because millions of people of color having their lives and the lives of their families ruined by demonstrable, provable, historic and utterly unfair enforcement is really fucking divisive.

Sensitivity to the truth taking precedence over genuine concern about the factors catalyzing the issues to begin with is a real clear sign where people stand on this.


Edit:

So as someone who lements our drug policy, votes against it and is firmly on the side of reform, you want to smash me because I'm white and have used drugs? What if I was those other things but hadn't used drugs?

So tiring.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So as someone who lements our drug policy, votes against it and is firmly on the side of reform, you want to smash me because I'm white and have used drugs? What if I was those other things but hadn't used drugs?

You seem to arguing that while things are bad for black people and you fully understand that drug policies unfairly affect black people, why am I being attacked.

Could it be that you feel attacked because it makes you uncomfortable about being reminded about your privilege?

 

[molnizzle]

haha I love this.

I enjoy a snarky little NeoGAF dogpile as much as the next guy, but I'm really having trouble understanding what bringing up those posts is supposed to prove. I was pretty much saying the same thing then.

 

[LizardKing]

You're not clear.

For example, you suggest that the ad isn't fair to whites who don't fit its assumptions, but while doing so, you're happy to throw relevant black concerns and issues under the bus as divisive themselves. It just clearly spells out to me that you don't have any personal skin in this game or else you'd understand how insulting that is. You're just thinking about your own community while telling white and black people to stop thinking about strictly black concerns. I hope you can be more self-aware of this.

Ok, what you are accusing me of is my exact problem with this ad. It happily throws relevant white concerns and issues under the bus and as a result divides. I'm not saying black concerns are not relevant. I'm not saying this issue doesn't disproportionately affect the races. I'm not saying the racist judicial system hasn't perpetuated this for centuries. I want to think about both communities. Not throw either one under the bus like this ad does.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What does this have to do with anything? The video or topic isn't about her voice.

A dude on the first page got banned for making a joke about her age, btw.

I was just surprised by the contrast between her voice in the earlier video and the new one.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I want to think about both communities.

I want you to read back all of your posts and find where you've actually thought about black people and the drug war at all in a way that respects their issues. Like if you were black, what posts of yours are reassuring or allied in any way? Was it the part where you've repeatedly said white America would look at this ad and not care, and how this is important because white America is everything in getting anything done? Was it the part where you spent more time arguing over how black issues have to be presented to white America for them to be comfortable than anything having to do with the discrepancies in policing that validate the ad's ideas?

 

[Christhor]

The real solution to this would be to just arrest more people who do drugs in general, right? If they book people without discriminating the problem fixes itself.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Ok, what you are accusing me of is my exact problem with this ad. It happily throws relevant white concerns and issues under the bus and as a result divides. I'm not saying black concerns are not relevant. I'm not saying this issue doesn't disproportionately affect the races. I'm not saying the racist judicial system hasn't perpetuated this for centuries. I want to think about both communities. Not throw either one under the bus like this ad does.

Why do both communities need to be considered equally when one is more unfairly targeted and affected by current drug policies than the other?

Your take on this ad is bizarre. Feeling attacked, claiming it's trying to divide. Why are you taking out the decision to highlight the privilege of one group so personally?

 

[PAULINK]

How about this? Remove the fucking useless laws that make doing drugs illegal. Society will never stop consuming mind altering substances. Plenty of us drink or use Prozac or smoke weed, that isn't going to change, and I think it's unrealistic to believe in a drug-free future. It's better to accept it as part of human existence and rebuild our views around it.

Until the law changes, I think it's fair to just respect the law. You can fight the man all you want until you're doing time because you thought doing illegal drugs and jeopardizing your future was a rational choice.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Until the law changes, I think it's fair to just respect the law. You can fight the man all you want until you're doing time because you thought doing illegal drugs and jeopardizing your future was a rational choice.

Do you have more thoughts about the topic, or is this just you being DARE for GAF?

 

[Aaronology]

Why do both communities need to be considered equally when one is more unfairly targeted and affected by current drug policies than the other?

Your take on this ad is bizarre. Feeling attacked, claiming it's trying to divide. Why are you taking out the decision to highlight the privilege of one group so personally?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Until the law changes, I think it's fair to just respect the law. You can fight the man all you want until you're doing time because you thought doing illegal drugs and jeopardizing your future was a rational choice.

Respect and follow the law because it's the law isn't a sensible approach to have. You'd think history would make this clear, but I guess it doesn't

 

[Snowybreak]

Until the law changes, I think it's fair to just respect the law. You can fight the man all you want until you're doing time because you thought doing illegal drugs and jeopardizing your future was a rational choice.

Know what? Fuck the law. The law is wrong, the majority of Americans think the law is wrong, so I don't give a fuck about it.

 

[molnizzle]

The real solution to this would be to just arrest more people who do drugs in general, right? If they book people without discriminating the problem fixes itself.

That solution solves the discrimination problem but not the life-ruining incarceration problem.

The better solution is to end the stupid "war on drugs" in the first place.

 

[Aaronology]

Until the law changes, I think it's fair to just respect the law. You can fight the man all you want until you're doing time because you thought doing illegal drugs and jeopardizing your future was a rational choice.

I am going to be a little presumptuous here and state I think this is something only said by an individual who has never been the victim of discriminatory laws.

 

[The Kree]

That's all it's been since his first post in this thread and I don't understand why.

 

[Staccat0]

I'm wondering what your purpose is in pointing out that a similar number of white and black people are in jail for drug crimes while acknowledging that that black people are disproportionately affected.

I think he's just saying that as a sales pitch to white people it could be slightly muddled.

The system is racist. White people have proven they don't care about this shit until it might happen to their kids. Why bother appealing to a sense of racial justice that doesn't exist?

 

[Socreges]

I enjoy a snarky little NeoGAF dogpile as much as the next guy, but I'm really having trouble understanding what bringing up those posts is supposed to prove. I was pretty much saying the same thing then.

Yeah I don't see the issue with those posts.

To be clear:

- I think generalizations about white people are stupid, serve nothing, and people should be allowed to point out how they're stupid
- This ad is great and I have no fucking issue with the white drug user who escaped conviction being smashed, and I find it depressing that other white people focus on that as if they're being victimized

 

[LizardKing]

I want you to read back all of your posts and find where you've actually thought about black people and the drug war at all in a way that respects their issues. Like if you were black, what posts of yours are reassuring or allied in any way? Was it the part where you've repeatedly said white America would look at this ad and not care, and how this is important because white America is everything in getting anything done? Was it the part where you spent more time arguing over how black issues have to be presented to white America for them to be comfortable than anything having to do with the discrepancies in policing that validate the ad's ideas?

Nobody is saying to avoid the issue of systemic racism in the judicial system. That is a huge battle that needs to be fought. And extremely worthy. But the usefulness of eliminating tools that allow that oppression cannot be overstated. And if these tools are viewed by the majority of society as harmful to society as a whole you are much likely to get action. You are not going to get as strong as a response if you only portray that tool as a black issue.

You are going to get much more support by uniting people behind an issue then dividing them about it.

This is exactly what my point has been. I don't know why it would be so hard to focus on hardships from all races? Why did they have to divide it by race? Why couldn't they say this is what the drug war does. To you, your kids, your siblings. No matter your race. I don't have a problem with showing it's a problem for black people. Why can't they show it's a problem for everyone? Show upper middle class white dad's little Timmy's life ruined with a felony as well. To say this doesn't affect you is shit.

So, I've been talking about showing this as an issue for everyone from the start. This ad is saying this is not a white issue. That is my problem. I want it to show it as an issue for both. To get the law changed, and eliminate the tool of oppression. It is not only a tool of racial oppression but a tool of economic oppression. For whites and blacks. I don't know how this doesn't qualify me as an ally for what the black community would also want on this issue?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'm posting this image again so certain people can have some goddamn perspective.

This shows that all 50 states are racially discriminatory in their policing, with black Americans arrested at levels from 2x to well over 20x as much as white people for the exact same shit. The majority of the states are sitting at well over 3x.

To think Rachael Leigh Cook's fucking commercial making you feel weird is an issue worth discussing for fucking hours today instead of these discrepancies shows us the obvious, ironic truth in LizardKing's idea that white people just don't give a fuck unless it's about them.