ReadingRambo
Member
It's called precedent. You want to be mindful when setting them.
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Racist Twitter user jailed for 56 days
- Thread starter Gowans
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It's called precedent. You want to be mindful when setting them.
The Super Bob
Member
If he was in the street or in a pub saying out loud what he wrote on twitter the outcome would have probably been the same (if he was reported by members of the public of course).
The guy's an idiot, but whether he deserves a custodial sentence is another thing. I would say he's unlikely to be rehabilitated while serving, because either he's dead set in that way of thinking or because he isn't really racist and was just being an attention seeking idiot. However he isn't likely to do it again, and it sends a warning to people not to spew racist nonesense in public. However putting people in jail to warn others always sits wrong with me.
Community service would have been a much better option in my opinion, along with some courses. He's already going to be in enough trouble with university + employers and a custodial sentence seems overly harsh,
Omegasquash
Member
Can't get behind the prison time. Words and actions are two different things. Jail time crosses a line, but getting removed from university and ostracised for the rest of his life seems appropriate.
This isn't a case where you can't avoid what's being said. You can literally turn it off, and block a Twitter user (I think...I'm not a twitter guy), right?
This isn't a case where you can't avoid what's being said. You can literally turn it off, and block a Twitter user (I think...I'm not a twitter guy), right?
The more I think about this, the more it troubles me. A user, who wrote stuff on an online medium gets jail for 2 months.
This is so utterly wrong. Community service I can go with, and even go as far as support, but in no way to me is this man a threat to the public that he needs to be segregated from society.
Just how far are the Police willing to go with investigations like this with online comments? Because they sure couldn't give a rats ass when someone burgled my house in December and stole £1000 worth of possessions.....
This is so utterly wrong. Community service I can go with, and even go as far as support, but in no way to me is this man a threat to the public that he needs to be segregated from society.
Just how far are the Police willing to go with investigations like this with online comments? Because they sure couldn't give a rats ass when someone burgled my house in December and stole £1000 worth of possessions.....
You don't understand? we understand freedom, no one should arrested for speech no matter how ignorant or racist it is, it's their right to act ignorant.
I don't understand how you people can defend this bullshit, oh call someone racist? guess you are spending 3 months in jail.. that isn't fair, isn't right and it's why i am glad i don't live there because the justice system is more of a joke then ours.
That was blatant incitement. I don't see the incitement in this case.
In the US, the only way speech will get you arrested is if you are directly inciting violence. In the street I shout "that Mexican right over there is ruining America. Lets all go beat him up right now!" This is incitement, and could get you arrested.
If you are not inciting violence, you cannot be jailed for anything in the US.
What difference does it make if its the internet? Legally the precedent is the same. The gov is saying it can imprison you for saying those things at any time in which someone else can hear you.
Lets look at the logical extension of this. I and friends are eating at a cafe. I say something racist "Illegal immigrants are horrible and stealing jobs and should be shot." I think I am having a private conversation (presumably legal??) but if a passerby hears me, I can now be jailed for that statement. Insanity.
ReadingRambo
Member
Because people can be fixed if we just punish them enough!
What you have to understand is that this guy has been sacrificed to send a message from the courts: you alone are responsible for your actions regardless of medium of expression or level of intoxication. Not everyone who sends a racist tweet will be arrested obviously, I doubt this law is written in any significant way, but it's there as a deterrent and publicised as a warning. Our courts can be very sadistic in this way.
This guy was stupid enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he obviously did himself no favours throughout the court process.
This guy was stupid enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he obviously did himself no favours throughout the court process.
Open Source
Banned
No, in the UK you just get your head beaten in because you happened to own a shop and police don't feel the need to stop the rioters taking all your stuff and kicking your defenseless ass.
And at least our secession movement was 150 years ago. The UK's got 2 that are quite popular and active, in Ireland and Scotland.
And that's not even bringing up the BNP, an overtly racist group that actually got someone elected in London.
The Incarnation
Member
Actually being drunk is seen as an aggravating factor.. Might of got less time if he said otherwise..
Open Source
Banned
Or give them enough Two Minutes Hate.
wrong place at the wrong time on the internet?
lets just get the ips to stormfront and put them all behind bars for life then! too easy
The Incarnation
Member
Him going to prison won't change anything.
They're cops here with criminal records... it's not as big as a deal as people think.
Caution, fine, community service, it's still on his record anyway, being in prison won't affect his chances in life much.
Visualante2
Member
Wrong place = Twitter, not the best for anonymity
Wrong time = right after the incident, at a time when 'internet trolling' is national news
Yup, and it will be widely abused by lazy police looking for easy convictions.
I don't know why I'm apathetic towards this. Perhaps because I've learned that pissing into hurricanes just gets me wet jeans.
Yes I think that was the reason. It's harsh for the guy but you need to be harsh to send a clear message. Others will think twice about it. I don't like the whole mindset that just because it's the internet, it's ok.
WorriedCitizen
Member
I don't get it either. It opens a can of worms. When people are generaly ok with it it will open the gates to push this kind of legislation further. Today it's just racists and islamists who go to jail over tweets tomorrow it could be people who criticise the government, boast about smoking a joint, calling the CEO of a big company a twat etc.
Such behaviour shouldn't go unpunished but my understanding of the western jurisdication system (especialy in Europe) always was that rehabilitation and resocialication is at its core not mindless punishment and ruin of ordinary peoples lifes.
Seraphinianus
Banned
actually, calling for violence is one of the big exceptions. and I don't believe in people getting jailed for racist stuff because it stigmatizes that person enough for bad social consequences and because jail is not going to change anyone's views about race. It's not like they're going to jail to see the best that other races offer and see the error of their ways. It's a harsh punishment and weird ruling in this case.
The Incarnation
Member
Maybe not, but if someone got worked up and decided trace him down stab him or someone close to him, he would of incited something.
Trying to provoke another person to violence is a crime here as well..
Think of it as those instigating penalties in Ice Hockey, some react, other don't.
So what's stopping cops from chilling outside a bar?
There are actual criminals to chase?
There are pencils to push?
There are doughnuts to buy?
Being known as a racist asshole should be punishment enough and deter future people from doing so on a not-so-anonymous website. I find it pretty disturbing that words, or text in this case, can be so offensive that the person who they belong to needs to be removed from society, even if it's a short sentence. Jail should be for people who are a danger to the public.
Visualante2
Member
You can legislate against behaviour, not attitudes.
UK has a history of this shit too, guy got punished for tweeting that he'd blow up an airport (as a joke) because of a delay. His whole life got fucked up. I believe he challenged at higher level courts to get it wiped clean.
You see nothing wrong with all this?
You cant just jail one person and not another for the same offense. There needs to be equality, or at least a desire to acheive equality.
And the worst part is that last comment, about the law not being written in any specific way! Yay abuse!
Ventilaator
Banned
I approve of accountability on the Internet. Even though this is not an example of that, this is an example of using a scapegoat to scare everybody else into behaving better.
Seraphinianus
Banned
exactly. I don't quite understand why people think this guy needs to be jailed. Is being a racist not as socially stigmatized over there?
In the U.S., in the wrong crowd (i.e. most of the general public), it will get you ostracized pretty quickly, which will screw up life, work, love, everything. Nobody needs to be jailed.
I don't know the answer to this question but I definitely know what it isn't: Putting them in jail.
la flama blanca
Banned
You can go to jail for this!?!! I'm fucking doomed :/
In the United States freedom of speech is considered one of the most important rights a person can exercise. As a result, our laws err on the side of allowing anything short of immediate incitement.
Otherwise you'd get people being imprisoned for Tweets.
ReadingRambo
Member
Cause punishing it won't correct the behavior. You think this guy will have an awakening in jail? Nah, he will just keep it quieter and more subtle.
I see a lot of things wrong with every justice system, and I don't think stupidity should be punished by jail time. UK-GAF have coped with our rubber laws pretty well, which come off the back of a rather liquid constitution. Seems to work OK, I don't have any sympathy for this guy really. Just because the corruption and law abuse is far less subtle here doesn't mean equally heinous law fiddlings don't happen everywhere in the world. I like the fact that our system is so transparent in its ideas.
Seraphinianus
Banned
because this is a huge country with lots of packed jails and lots of other more important crimes and social circles have enough power to punish a racist person.
Visualante2
Member
They have it in South Korea, everything you say is accountable. Thought I think there were debates against it being removed. People went to jail for hating on celebrities and I believe, and posting pro North Korea comments. It's an incredibly slippery slope.
Agreed. Give this guy 4 months community service, not 2 months in jail. Punishment does not warrant segregation from society.
Maybe "stop" was the wrong word, but surely the fact that there is a punishment will deter some people from committing the crimes? There'd be a lot more thefts if you just got a telling off instead of a prison sentence, don't you agree?
EDIT: Maybe prison is a bit harsh in this case (though I don't have a huge issue with the sentence, myself) perhaps a fine would be better, but it should be a pretty large one. (The more fines taken from criminals, the less taxes we have to pay!)
No. This doesn't work with the death penalty and deterring murder either. People don't commit crimes weighing up how badly the law will punish them if they're caught.
The Incarnation
Member
Yeah, gonna be hard for him in an open prison.
Hopefully they'll bang him up in a Cat B.
Then he can only get solid food, and watch TV all day, plus play the occasional frame of Snooker. Go to the Gym, library, and other activities. Maybe converse with an 80 year old who refused to pay his TV license.
Come on lawyer man! I'd say a more logical extension would be that scenario but you were being wire tapped or a neighbor was eavesdropping with a glass against the wall. Eating at a cafe is absolutely in public.
Posting on twitter without a private account is more akin to standing in the middle of the street and using a megaphone. Anyone and everyone can hear you and/or be subjected to your views. I think his line about curbstomping and laughing about Muamba potentially being dead on top of all of the racist terms directed at users could be considered inciting violence especially given the nature of retweets.
This is what prison is here in Finland.
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