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[SapientWolf]

The 7770 and the 6850 aren't even in the same class. The 7770 is a mainstream card, while the 6850 is a performance card.

The 6850 was hardly better than the 5850, and performed worse in many cases. You might be thinking of the 6950.

Only having 1GB of memory doesn't help much either. It's a thoroughly unexciting card.

 

[TheExodu5]

Damn, approaching 2 years later and $200 still buys GTX460 level performance.

Seriously...it's quite discouraging.

 

[artist]

In terms of low end improvements for the FPS/$, the 5 series to 6 jump was unacceptable and so is the 6 to 7.
4770 to 5770 the same deal.

New arch and new process = same FPS/$? Come on.
Zero-Core is great. 40W less under load is great. But it's not faster at the same price.

TechpowerUp's chart says the 6870 (Which is cheaper) is 26% faster. I think that's fair. Anandtech has their BENCH up as well.

Everyone is just slotting in everything at the same prices and I'm not happy.
I know prices on new parts will come down. I know pricing on the 6870's are to clear them out. Just right now and mostly likely for another month or so it's just a bad buy for most people.

*And to be clear, I 100% understand that lowering the wattage stuff like this is super important. Many more applications and this trend is very good for the future. But I still want good value parts for desktop users.

What you are forgetting is that the pricing in this segment is always like that. Besides value for new launches are seldom there.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_550_Ti_Direct_Cu/images/perfdollar.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_460_1_GB/images/perfdollar.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6870/images/perfdollar.gif

Damn, approaching 2 years later and $200 still buys GTX460 level performance.

1. This is not priced at $200.
2. This is not the same class as the GTX460, look to Pitcairn for that.

 

[Hazaro]

'I know prices on new parts will come down. I know pricing on the 6870's are to clear them out. Just right now and mostly likely for another month or so it's just a bad buy for most people.'

550Ti is terrible. 460 and 6870 are much better per $.

 

[McHuj]

The 6850 was hardly better than the 5850, and performed worse in many cases. You might be thinking of the 6950.

Only having 1GB of memory doesn't help much either. It's a thoroughly unexciting card.

The 6850 was supposed to be the 6750 until they changed the naming scheme. The Evergreen series had no single GPU 59xx models. The 5970 was a dual GPU card.

I think prices on all the AMD 7xxx series will plummet when Nvidia releases their new line. Right now they're basically charging what they want.

 

[artist]

The 6850 was hardly better than the 5850, and performed worse in many cases. You might be thinking of the 6950.

Only having 1GB of memory doesn't help much either. It's a thoroughly unexciting card.

No, he's correct. AMD had to split to have a better coverage.

6990 Ultra Enthusiast
6900 Enthusiast
6800 Performance
6700 Mid-range
6600 Mainstream
6400 Budget

 

[zephervack]

So GAF help me make a decision, im about to pull the trigger on a 7970 or 7950, but as I read more and more reviews I think the 7970 maybe doesnt make any sense, the 7950 seems really easy to OC to perform to the same level as a 7970.

I play games at 5760 * 1200, If i need to spend an extra $100 I will, but im not sure at the moment.

I really dont want to make the same mistake I did previous gen, I got one 6950 because of the same reasons as above but it wasnt enough for my setup so I ended up buying another 6950 for crossfire but i have had really bad experiences with it (microstuttering, etc), i pretty much have to play BF3 with everything set to low @ 1080p because of stuttering or other jerkiness.

 

[Sethos]

So GAF help me make a decision, im about to pull the trigger on a 7970 or 7950, but as I read more and more reviews I think the 7970 maybe doesnt make any sense, the 7950 seems really easy to OC to perform to the same level as a 7970.

I play games at 5760 * 1200, If i need to spend an extra $100 I will, but im not sure at the moment.

I really dont want to make the same mistake I did previous gen, I got one 6950 because of the same reasons as above but it wasnt enough for my setup so I ended up buying another 6950 for crossfire but i have had really bad experiences with it (microstuttering, etc), i pretty much have to play BF3 with everything set to low @ 1080p because of stuttering or other jerkiness.

I'm going to give you a very boring and expected answer, wait for Kepler. See the advantages of all the card(s), perhaps even enjoy price drops.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

All this talk about the 6850, and I just want to say: one of the best purchases I've ever made. for $120, the price/performance ratio is bonkers. Card handles most games out there like a goddamn champ. Then again, I do only play at 1680x1050.

 

[zephervack]

I'm going to give you a very boring and expected answer, wait for Kepler. See the advantages of all the card(s), perhaps even enjoy price drops.

Unless nVidia changes their output architecture, I cant do this. nVidia requires the usage of Triple Way SLI to play games on 3 screens which is completely out of the question on my budget.

I need to be able to do that with one GPU like all the AMD cards do with Eyefinity.

I really really do wish nVidia would get with the times, because i have been wanting to move to the green side for a while, so many image quality tweaks available.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The 77xx are 1GB cards right? (I only see 4 ram chips, and assuming they're using 2Gb GDDR5 chips)

 

[luca_29_bg]

damn but what's going on with sapphire and the toxic edition for 7970 ? It will come out someday ?

 

[Sethos]

damn but what's going on with sapphire and the toxic edition for 7970 ? It will come out someday ?

It'll probably be used as a counter for the eventual Kepler release, just to 1-up them and / or steal some thunder.

 

[artist]

The 77xx are 1GB cards right? (I only see 4 ram chips, and assuming they're using 2Gb GDDR5 chips)

Yes.

 

[luca_29_bg]

It'll probably be used as a counter for the eventual Kepler release, just to 1-up them and / or steal some thunder.

So april it's the time frame ?

 

[artist]

New rumor on pricing & specs of the 7800 series.

AMD Pitcairn Specifications Leak: Radeon HD 7850, HD 7870 Coming

In just two weeks' time, AMD will introduce third and final silicon for their 7000 Series of graphics cards: Pitcairn or the RV940, as the old nomenclature would imply.

At CeBIT 2012, AMD will introduce the Radeon HD 7800 Series. The two boards will be based off a silicon codenamed Pitcairn (four volcano islands in south Pacific, 5400km east of New Zealand, 5600km west of Chile).

With Radeon HD 7850 and HD 7870, AMD will replace the venerable HD 6900 series which are based on the Cayman GPU. AMD Cayman featured 1536 cores in HD 6970 and 1408 cores in HD 6950, paired with 256-bit memory interface and 1GB or 2GB of GDDR5 memory.

Since Pitcairn is based on the latest "Graphics Core Next" GPU architecture, AMD did not need to cram in 1536 cores to get similar or higher results. Rather, Pitcairn will have the same number of units as Radeon HD 6950. That's right - a fully featured Pitcairn carries 22 Compute Units, i.e. 1408 cores. There are also 24 ROPs (Raster Operation Processor) and 88 TMUs (Texture Memory Unit). Just like all GCN parts, ROP is decoupled from the memory controller.

This connects with a 256-bit memory controller and GDDR5 memory. The part about the clocks is interesting though, since AMD kept the clocks similar to the Radeon HD 7900 Series. Without further adue, these are the specs at glance:

AMD Radeon HD 7850 1GB

$139 (Rumored)
20 Compute Units
1280 cores (Stream Processors)
80 Texture Units; 72.0 GTexel/s
24 Color ROP Units; 21.6 GPixel/s
1 GB GDDR5 Memory; 156.25 GB/s
900 MHz GPU Core
1250 MHz QDR GDDR5 clock (5.0 GHz "effective")
AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB

$169 (Rumored)
20 Compute Units
1280 cores (Stream Processors)
80 Texture Units; 72.0 GTexel/s
24 Color ROP Units; 21.6 GPixel/s
2 GB GDDR5 Memory; 156.25 GB/s
900 MHz GPU Core
1250 MHz QDR GDDR5 clock (5.0 GHz "effective")
AMD Radeon HD 7870 2GB

$199 (Verified)
22 Compute Units
1408 cores (Stream Processors)
88 Texture Units; 83.6 GTexel/s
24 Color ROP Units; 22.8 GPixel/s
2GB GDDR5 Memory; 171.88GB/s
950MHz GPU Core
1375 MHz QDR GDDR5 clock (5.5GHz "effective")
Only 15 days remain.

Read more: http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-pit...-7850-hd-7870-coming/14948.html#ixzz1mxrKwHdc

The 7870 should be on par with a 6970 atleast.

 

[Corky]

199 for 6970 levels of performance?

Midrange might be interesting afterall.

 

[DSN2K]

7850 looks a card....mind 1GB may hold it back!

 

[DieH@rd]

Sadly, i think that AMD will price 78xx higher than that... :-/

 

[Smokey]

Unless nVidia changes their output architecture, I cant do this. nVidia requires the usage of Triple Way SLI to play games on 3 screens which is completely out of the question on my budget.

I need to be able to do that with one GPU like all the AMD cards do with Eyefinity.

I really really do wish nVidia would get with the times, because i have been wanting to move to the green side for a while, so many image quality tweaks available.

Not true.

Requires standard SLI.

 

[K.Jack]

Really hoping the 7870 ends up the 7970M.

 

[Cipherr]

Wow thats crazy nice midrange. I think I might grab the $199 card and box my 6870. I cant think of anything on the horizon that makes me want to spend another $350 on top of that for a better card. Diablo III will get a lot of playtime, but I really find myself wondering how much card I will need to actually max that game.

Im thinking it wont be much.

 

[seldead]

6970 level performance for $200 eh? I may consider parting with my 5850 for a cheap upgrade, but then again maybe not, it's still alive and kicking quite well in performance.

 

[pestul]

6970 level performance for $200 eh? I may consider parting with my 5850 for a cheap upgrade, but then again maybe not, it's still alive and kicking quite well in performance.

Same boat as me. It kind of helps having my 5850 overclocked beyond a stock level 6950 in performance though.

 

[foladar]

I suck at reading specs for cards, but at that price I'd probably go AMD over NVidia this time. I'm waiting to see what comes out before Diablo and then deciding for "future proof" but the AMD cards are getting more and more appealing. (I was previously looking at a 6870)

 

[Chris R]

Wonder how hot and loud the 7870 will be... Might get that instead of a 7950 with the bad nVidia news coming out in that other thread.

 

[pestul]

Could be a very powerful HTPC enthusiast card if it can fit in the right form factor (7870).

 

[Hazaro]

I'd expect a tiny bit better than 6950 performance and $209 launch price at retailers for the lowest end.

We'll see. Still the 7870 should be the card everyone picks up. If the 7850 is good it has to intrude at the 7770 pricing.

 

[Iadien]

Hmm, I may pick up a 7870 to replace my 260 GTX. Basically the only game I play consistently (TF2) hates my card...

As long as it's not loud as hell like the high end cards...

 

[specialguy]

New rumor on pricing & specs of the 7800 series.


The 7870 should be on par with a 6970 atleast.

These make no sense at all. 7850 with 1280 cores @139, when 7770 with 640 cores is 159????

Also, 7870@199 would leave way too big a gap between the 7870 at 199 and the next card up, the 7950 at 449.

Much as I'd love this to be true it's EXTREMELY doubtful. The 7870 will probably be 299 at best.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Wonder how hot and loud the 7870 will be... Might get that instead of a 7950 with the bad nVidia news coming out in that other thread.

First off all, there was no bad news in that thread. I'm not sure if Irfan intentionally set things up, but where was the bad news? It's been known for months the mid range is leading first. And suddenly posters are jumping off bridges because the mid range is leading first? As for yields, this news hit a couple days ago and it's still better than Fermi was.

As for your point, some sites are stating the 7870 has a TDP of 120 watts. That's phenomenal performance/watt if true. Anxious to see what Nvidia's mid-range card will do (since it's rumored to have great performance/watt). Is it truly competitive? We'll see. But for people like us, who seem to be looking for mid range cards, it does look like it's going to be a great spring. Hopefully Nvidia is competitive/better and we get a good old fashioned price war.

 

[pestul]

Old news, new news, it still can't be spun as being good news for Nvidia in any way. It would be quite remarkable if AMD has 9 months clear sailing from a performance crown competitor. A complete flip from the current situation for how long the GTX580 held the crown.

Nvidia needs to get cards to market and fast.

 

[pestul]

I think the GK104 is going to be a wonderful card though. I'm just wondering how many enthusiasts who buy the 7950/70's now are going to get burned if AMD has to drop the price nearly $100 in March. We're probably being a bit unrealistic on the 104s pricepoint. If it does end up slightly better than the GTX580, I simply can't see it for less than $399.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I think it's kind of funny, after all of the rumors, ultimately the rumors I based my buying decision on, looks to be coming true. The main reason I decided to splurge on the 7970 when I did was because I was under the impression that Nvidia's high end cards wouldn't be released until Q3 or Q4 of this year.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I think it's kind of funny, after all of the rumors, ultimately the rumors I based my buying decision on, looks to be coming true. The main reason I decided to splurge on the 7970 when I did was because I was under the impression that Nvidia's high end cards wouldn't be released until Q3 or Q4 of this year.

Weren't the rumors for Nvidia's cards like April or something at some point? The upgrade for my 4870 is long overdue, but I've waited this long. And right now seems the worst possible time for a purchase. I can hold out a bit longer.

 

[1-D_FTW]

These make no sense at all. 7850 with 1280 cores @139, when 7770 with 640 cores is 159????

Also, 7870@199 would leave way too big a gap between the 7870 at 199 and the next card up, the 7950 at 449.

Much as I'd love this to be true it's EXTREMELY doubtful. The 7870 will probably be 299 at best.

The more I look at this, the more I think you're right. 199 for the 7870 just seems way too good. Only hope I can see is that they really want to put the screws to Nvidia's launch.*

*Even in that scenario, it's probably best to jump on the 7870 as soon as they launch. Because the automated pricing structures of all the websites will ratchet those prices up to 250 with all the demand and it'll probably be months before they get restocked and the prices drop back to retail.

 

[sammich]

Im awaiting reviews for this. Currently have my xfx 6870. I want to upgrade to something that
* - uses less power
* - less heat
* - runs everything at 1080p with all the bells and whistles.

For the last point, my 6870 kinda does already, but i want something thats quieter etc as this is in an HTPC.

 

[Kinan]

As for your point, some sites are stating the 7870 has a TDP of 120 watts.

This thing is so mine if true. Not completely unrealistic, considering ~100W power draw of 7770.

 

[McHuj]

Much as I'd love this to be true it's EXTREMELY doubtful. The 7870 will probably be 299 at best.

That's my guess. I think the rumors are getting jumbled. I could see 199 Euro's for the 7870 or $199 for a 1GB 7850. But I don't think the top end 78xx series card will come in at $199 given how they've priced the other two series of the 7xxx line.

However, I think by 2012 holiday, we should be able to get a 7870 for under $200, just not yet.

 

[Mr Swine]

The more I look at this, the more I think you're right. 199 for the 7870 just seems way too good. Only hope I can see is that they really want to put the screws to Nvidia's launch.*

*Even in that scenario, it's probably best to jump on the 7870 as soon as they launch. Because the automated pricing structures of all the websites will ratchet those prices up to 250 with all the demand and it'll probably be months before they get restocked and the prices drop back to retail.

I think it all depends on what cards Nvidia releases and how good they are. Last thing Amd needs is cards that cost more than Nvidias and don't run as good

 

[1-D_FTW]

That's my guess. I think the rumors are getting jumbled. I could see 199 Euro's for the 7870 or $199 for a 1GB 7850. But I don't think the top end 78xx series card will come in at $199 given how they've priced the other two series of the 7xxx line.

However, I think by 2012 holiday, we should be able to get a 7870 for under $200, just not yet.

The only counter to that is this: if the GK104 really does sit between the 7950 and 7970 performance wise, and it's releasing at 299.99, it wouldn't be wise to launch head to head with that.

If they could release it at 199.99 (or even 229.99), and if it has significantly less TDP, it could make a very compelling case to be the mid-range card over the GK104.

EDIT:

I think it all depends on what cards Nvidia releases and how good they are. Last thing Amd needs is cards that cost more than Nvidias and don't run as good

Was typing this post while you were typing yours. Now that I've fully absorbed all the info on both sides, I agree with your position.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Same boat as me. It kind of helps having my 5850 overclocked beyond a stock level 6950 in performance though.

What? i don't follow. Are you implying a 5850 overcloacked comes close to a 6950?

 

[McHuj]

The only counter to that is this: if the GK104 really does sit between the 7950 and 7970 performance wise, and it's releasing at 299.99, it wouldn't be wise to launch head to head with that.
.

Agreed to that. I kind of expect AMD to adjust their prices as soon as Nvidia releases their stock (or in sufficient volume).

 

[artist]

First off all, there was no bad news in that thread. I'm not sure if Irfan intentionally set things up, but where was the bad news?

WTF.

I'm posted as news is coming in .. you know I'm not manufacturing it right? I was genuinely excited about GK104, beating 7970 handily and coming it at $299. I still am excited and will probably get one if it comes close to 7970 (in the games I regularly play) and at a cheaper price.

I think the GK104 is going to be a wonderful card though. I'm just wondering how many enthusiasts who buy the 7950/70's now are going to get burned if AMD has to drop the price nearly $100 in March. We're probably being a bit unrealistic on the 104s pricepoint. If it does end up slightly better than the GTX580, I simply can't see it for less than $399.

Its probably already argued but you expect to take hit (to the wallet) if you chose to live on the bleeding edge of the curve.

What? i don't follow. Are you implying a 5850 overcloacked comes close to a 6950?

I can get close enough depending on the level of the OC and the game/res/setting being tested.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I can get close enough depending on the level of the OC and the game/res/setting being tested.

Interesting, that's really incredible. Can you get a bit more in depth. What clocks, voltages and in what games? Stock cooling, moded air cooling, water cooling or are you using a special edition card?

 

[tokkun]

The only counter to that is this: if the GK104 really does sit between the 7950 and 7970 performance wise, and it's releasing at 299.99, it wouldn't be wise to launch head to head with that.

The $299 rumor is kind of stale by now. More recent rumors have been $350-400, and Nvidia is not exactly known for bargain-pricing their cards.

Still, if it beats the 7950 at $400, that should create some downward pressure to improve the absurd value situation we're in with today's cards where you barely get any better value for the dollar than you did a year ago.

 

[artist]

Interesting, that's really incredible. Can you get a bit more in depth. What clocks, voltages and in what games? Stock cooling, moded air cooling, water cooling or are you using a special edition card?

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti_448_Cores/images/battleforge_1920_1200.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti_448_Cores/images/civ5_1920_1200.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti_448_Cores/images/crysis_1920_1200.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti_448_Cores/images/crysis2_2560_1600.gif

If you google around, you'll find that a decent OC on the 5850 will get you close to a 6950:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2144158

The 6950 doesnt have a lot of shading/texturing power over the 5850, its just clocked a little higher and there are games that got a boost from the VLIW4 compiler.

 

[pestul]

Interesting, that's really incredible. Can you get a bit more in depth. What clocks, voltages and in what games? Stock cooling, moded air cooling, water cooling or are you using a special edition card?

I'm using an air cooled launch model (Nov 09) Sapphire Radeon 5850 with no other modifications. 975MHz core (+34%)/ 1200MHz memory (+20%) @ 1.187v (+0.100v over stock). It outperforms the 6950 at stock in just about every 1080p 4xAA scenario.

 

[1-D_FTW]

WTF.

I'm posted as news is coming in .. you know I'm not manufacturing it right? I was genuinely excited about GK104, beating 7970 handily and coming it at $299. I still am excited and will probably get one if it comes close to 7970 (in the games I regularly play) and at a cheaper price.

I'm just saying, that other thread created a real negative vibe that I feel is overly influencing people. Gold Rim Gaf that rolls with dual 600 cards may be disappointed and venting, but it's not like they weren't already warned the mid-range was coming first.

I don't know why they're spinning this as something new. A mid range card not only has to be priced mid-range, it has to have reasonable TDP. Charlie just seems to have changed tactics a bit and this time deliberately went the other way so people would eventually be disappointed at a product that wasn't really disappointing.

 

[artist]

I'm just saying, that other thread created a real negative vibe that I feel is overly influencing people. Gold Rim Gaf that rolls with dual 600 cards may be disappointed and venting, but it's not like they weren't already warned the mid-range was coming first.

I don't know why they're spinning this as something new. A mid range card not only has to be priced mid-range, it has to have reasonable TDP. Charlie just seems to have changed tactics a bit and this time deliberately went the other way so people would eventually be disappointed at a product that wasn't really disappointing.

There are two things here.

First and foremost, GK104 was always coming first. There is no change to this. The big brother GK100/GK110/GK112 was always going to come later in Q2 or mid year frame. The latest rumor is that it has slipped a quarter or two and Nvidia will be fighting Tahiti with GK104 only. Thats a big change for people who were waiting for it. They might as well go with the 7970 (if these rumors are true) and enjoy the performance for 9 more months.

Second, not sure how Charlie got into this? To me it looks like his mole got ratted out by Nvidia and he is now backpedalling a bit. He didnt say that GK100/GK110/GK112 got delayed, did he?