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Rainbow Capitalism - I'm sick and tired of the gaming industry's moral hypocrisy

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
This is what the EA walkout threat was all about. Employees were saying if you don’t support the cause, then don’t be fake and go decorating your logo for Pride month.

Instead of supporting the employees against a big corporation being fake, the thread was loaded with people supporting EA.
 
This is what the EA walkout threat was all about. Employees were saying if you don’t support the cause, then don’t be fake and go decorating your logo for Pride month.

Instead of supporting the employees against a big corporation being fake, the thread was loaded with people supporting EA.
Of course they supported EA, gave it to them woke SJW nerds. Am I right?
 

Justin9mm

Member
I find it funny how all these game companies hype up diversity yet look at every company photo of all 100 employees staring at the cam with a smile on their face and literally 90% of them are white guys.

I can understand Japanese studios being all Japanese due to the demographic mix over there but you’d think in American and European game studios there’s got to be some more half decent game programmers and artists that aren’t white dudes.

But who knows. Maybe game making and artistry and audio recording for games is one of those industries where the employee pool in USA and UK as 90+% white men.

Some company photos there’s literally zero minorities or women. I’m not sure if those pics are just the game making people or include other functions but if it includes others functions like sales, marketing, finance and HR, it’s still almost all white guys too?
It's definitely related to Talent, as a company you can't employ diverse people just because you want to promote diversity. It's not the game industries fault their isn't more qualified gay/trans black game developers wanting jobs.
 
I was being facetious with the prior comment, I know they definitely are. I just find it all kinda pointless. Them feigning solidarity with any cause or group is what they should do, its cost them nothing. Employees and how there treated is what I care about, diversity and all.
 
It's definitely related to Talent, as a company you can't employ diverse people just because you want to promote diversity. It's not the game industries fault their isn't more qualified gay/trans black game developers wanting
So you feel blacks and gay/Trans just aren't into that work and when they get hired that's why games come out rushed and bad? Not the guys in charge that have the final say? Ok
Our entire society is morally bankrupt. From acceptance of differences into the promotion of perversion and supremacy of the "disenfranchised".

Good times make weak men, and weak men make hard times. Hard times are coming.
 

Justin9mm

Member
So you feel blacks and gay/Trans just aren't into that work and when they get hired that's why games come out rushed and bad? Not the guys in charge that have the final say? Ok

What!!? LOL

Why are you putting words into my mouth? Did I say if they are hired, they are the reason games are rushed and bad?

All I'm saying is the industry is white male dominated because that's the majority demographic. Just like construction is a white male dominated industry (at least in my country)

If you have a vacancy in a studio for a programmer and lets say you have 5 white males and 1 'diverse' person apply for the role and the diverse person is a lot less qualified with little experience compared to the other white males but they need an experienced programmer, they should just choose the diverse person because you know.. Diversity?
 
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What!!? LOL

Why are you putting words into my mouth? Did I say if they are hired, they are the reason games are rushed and bad?

All I'm saying is the industry is white male dominated because that's the majority demographic. Just like construction is a white male dominated industry (at least in my country)

If you have a vacancy in a studio for a programmer and lets say you have 5 white males and 1 'diverse' person apply for the role and the diverse person is a lot less qualified with little experience but they need an experienced programmer, they should just choose the diverse person because you know.. Diversity?
I'm putting words in your mouth, but your hypothetical says it's the diverse one who is a lot less qualified. Why not 3 of the white guys being a lot less qualified and the diverse one is over qualified? Seems possible right?
 

captainpat

Member
I don't like the hypocrisy but I do feel that a lot of people complaining about this are really just covering for the fact that they don't lgbt+ topics being associated with videogames period. They love pretending like companies are being overbearing with it or forcing it down people's throat despite all the stories of the opposite happening.
 

Zeroing

Banned
This is what the EA walkout threat was all about. Employees were saying if you don’t support the cause, then don’t be fake and go decorating your logo for Pride month.

Instead of supporting the employees against a big corporation being fake, the thread was loaded with people supporting EA.
I didn’t supported EA, I know the companies do not care, it’s all a device to make the company look relatable. It’s all marketing! Putting a rainbow logo doesn’t mean they care about us,me,then! EA could donate money to non profit organizations… that is a meaningful gesture.

But nobody takes action to any big American companies and their bullshit! We complain, we end up fighting each other in endless discourse that means nothing. Those companies still continue to do what they want!


My advice for everyone is easy! Don’t like what blizzard or what other corporations are doing?

Stop giving money to that company! Stop buying their stuff. I haven’t buy any game from EA in 10 years! And I didn’t missed much.

They need us, not the other way around! Actions speak louder than being angry on the internet
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I don't like the hypocrisy but I do feel that a lot of people complaining about this are really just covering for the fact that they don't lgbt+ topics being associated with videogames period. They love pretending like companies are being overbearing with it or forcing it down people's throat despite all the stories of the opposite happening.

Or people want to see actual, needed diversity and representation done in a meaningful way. Instead of this god awful tokenism and insulting treatment of minority groups.

But nah, its just that “GAMERS” are “BIGOTS”, yea?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I didn’t supported EA, I know the companies do not care, it’s all a device to make the company look relatable. It’s all marketing! Putting a rainbow logo doesn’t mean they care about us,me,then! EA could donate money to non profit organizations… that is a meaningful gesture.

But nobody takes action to any big American companies and their bullshit! We complain, we end up fighting each other in endless discourse that means nothing. Those companies still continue to do what they want!


My advice for everyone is easy! Don’t like what blizzard or what other corporations are doing?

Stop giving money to that company! Stop buying their stuff. I haven’t buy any game from EA in 10 years! And I didn’t missed much.

They need us, not the other way around! Actions speak louder than being angry on the internet

That is the thing that Strange and others in this thread are pushing for. Awareness and to get others on board. We shouldn’t be supporting companies that do this. We should be holding them accountable and pushing them, even if they don’t care, to actually donate funds to organizations that actually care about making real differences in the world.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
In my view you're creating a false dilemma.

Supporting marginalized people (or just diversity in general) is morally right. I mean why not? It doesn't take anything away from you, it doesn't harm you, and you're welcome to ignore all of it if you choose.

On the other hand, being greedy and instituting pay-to-win, whale-hunting scenarios is pure business. In a more perfect world would these things not exist? Sure. But as long as there are idiots ready to part ways with their money....
 
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Zeroing

Banned
That is the thing that Strange and others in this thread are pushing for. Awareness and to get others on board. We shouldn’t be supporting companies that do this. We should be holding them accountable and pushing them, even if they don’t care, to actually donate funds to organizations that actually care about making real differences in the world.
Pushing companies?
Nah that will not work in American capitalism! It will only work when people stop arguing to each other and decide to stop buying their products…. Then we will see those big corporations take some good actions.
 

Woopah

Member
It's definitely related to Talent, as a company you can't employ diverse people just because you want to promote diversity. It's not the game industries fault their isn't more qualified gay/trans black game developers wanting jobs.
Why not? Companies don't have to choose between having a talented workforce or a diverse workforce. They can have both.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
When did I ever say or imply that in this thread? I’ve literally stated the exact opposite. Everyone on Earth knows that when companies do this, it’s performative. My point is that it still helps. I’m glad simple logo changes bug you this much. Clown
I didn't read your previous comments because I don't give a fuck about your previous comments. As a matter of fact my comment was not a response to any comment and you're not the OT.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
In my view you're creating a false dilemma.

Supporting marginalized people (or just diversity in general) is morally right. I mean why not? It doesn't take anything away from you, it doesn't harm you, and you're welcome to ignore all of it if you choose.

On the other hand, being greedy and instituting pay-to-win, whale-hunting scenarios is pure business. In a more perfect world would these things not exist? Sure. But as long as there are idiots ready to part ways with their money....

You have completely misunderstood his argument.

There is nothing wrong with supporting marginalized folks. These companies and these initiatives do not do that. They actively hinder progression and acceptance by pushing tokenized characters. There is a reason why you see folks scream out against shit like Dragon Age Inquisition’s Dorian, Mass Effect Andromeda’s Hainly Adams, or 2064’s Jess while also seeing the same folks praise NieR’s Emil and Kaine, Dragon Age 11’s Sylvando, or The Last of Us’ Bill.

We should push for companies to do *better*. To actually do what they claim they care about.
 
Or people want to see actual, needed diversity and representation done in a meaningful way. Instead of this god awful tokenism and insulting treatment of minority groups.

But nah, its just that “GAMERS” are “BIGOTS”, yea?
Examples of tokenism and insulting treatment of minorities please. It always seems to boil down to devs needing to explain why they're a minority.
 
I really think social media, but specifically Twitter and maybe to an extent Tumblr, is to blame.

It's like when your balls get stuck up your asshole only even worse somehow.

While I can have fun on Twitter, I really think social media is an absolute cancer and has done worse for society than anything better. The bad outweighs the good when it comes to social media.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
You have completely misunderstood his argument.

There is nothing wrong with supporting marginalized folks. These companies and these initiatives do not do that. They actively hinder progression and acceptance by pushing tokenized characters. There is a reason why you see folks scream out against shit like Dragon Age Inquisition’s Dorian, Mass Effect Andromeda’s Hainly Adams, or 2064’s Jess while also seeing the same folks praise NieR’s Emil and Kaine, Dragon Age 11’s Sylvando, or The Last of Us’ Bill.

We should push for companies to do *better*. To actually do what they claim they care about.

Do you have any examples (edit: of people of color, et al, actually complaining, I mean)? You keep posting in the thread as if you're speaking from authority, but what one sees as tokenism others may feel are genuine attempts to be more diverse.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Do you have any examples (edit: of people of color, et al, actually complaining, I mean)? You keep posting in the thread as if you're speaking from authority, but what one sees as tokenism others may feel are genuine attempts to be more diverse.

We literally have people on GAF. Black, white, trans, Asian, LGBT. Same on YouTube, Twitter, and more. It also doesn’t take a genius to spot when a character is written as a tokenized character. The three I listed are perfect examples of that.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
We literally have people on GAF. Black, white, trans, Asian, LGBT. Same on YouTube, Twitter, and more. It also doesn’t take a genius to spot when a character is written as a tokenized character. The three I listed are perfect examples of that.

I'm barely seeing that at all. All of the complaints come from a very specific type, the same type who immediately questions someone else's intelligence if they disagree with them. Start talking about "agendas". Etc.

Almost every single character that is different from themselves is labeled "token". We can't have a proper discussion as long as those types are the loudest within every one.
 
I find it funny how all these game companies hype up diversity yet look at every company photo of all 100 employees staring at the cam with a smile on their face and literally 90% of them are white guys.

I can understand Japanese studios being all Japanese due to the demographic mix over there but you’d think in American and European game studios there’s got to be some more half decent game programmers and artists that aren’t white dudes.

But who knows. Maybe game making and artistry and audio recording for games is one of those industries where the employee pool in USA and UK as 90+% white men.

Some company photos there’s literally zero minorities or women. I’m not sure if those pics are just the game making people or include other functions but if it includes others functions like sales, marketing, finance and HR, it’s still almost all white guys too?
Believe it or not, but most European countries are, shockingly, European.
 

Zeroing

Banned
This thread is gonna get locked not because of its content or the debate (which should be had); but rather because of the absolutely childish and stupid insults being hurled around.

Stop with the insults, and get back to the discussion.
I think it is easy to solve all this. My money, I choose to spent it where I want. Your money, your choice. Different opinions, ok. Insults...bad.
Everyone stays on their "lane" and let things run it's course. The problem here is everyone get's angry at things that will not impact you...

Believe it or not, but most European countries are, shockingly, European.
I know, it is normal for Europe but maybe not for USA, a country of immigrants. Portugal is the most diverse country in Europe I think, due to to it's old history and emigration and coming back to the country to settle in, we are so mixed we do not have those extreme social problems. Anyway different countries different problems.
 
Moral should only exist within ones own conscience, if moral became a standard, its bound to be a tool of hypocrisies, standards are gameable
 
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InfiniteCombo

Gold Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
 
It’s all nonsense. Its so easy to talk about how oppressed you are in a western country that is so apparently whateverphobic it openly supports or even actively promotes your right to talk about how awful it is, and then just ignore actual oppression in parts of the world out of commercial interest. Smoke and mirrors
 

Guilty_AI

Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
No edits? Damn
 

Varteras

Gold Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
The Rock Clapping GIF
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
The amazing thing about all the companies big and small promoting Pride month. Doesn't matter if they make jet turbines or it's a local bakery. Rainbow colours everywhere, support Pride month, logo change on Linkedin, rainbow cupcakes etc....

Out of all the companies who do a Pride month angle to their marketing, the % of businesses that actually help out the LBTQ+ people through financials donations, hiring opportunities, support programs, etc.... I bet it's no more than 5%.

They just use it for positive PR and bank the profits from any potential sales boost.

It's really no different than Christmas. The most comercialized holiday all year. Everyone gets time off, most people celebrate it in some fashion with fancy dinners and gifts. How many people actually treat it as a Christian holiday in a religious way? Hardly any. Most people arent even Christian. But it's that time of the year to amp on buying shit.
 
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