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Rainbow Capitalism - I'm sick and tired of the gaming industry's moral hypocrisy

nush

Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
 

Justin9mm

Member
Why not? Companies don't have to choose between having a talented workforce or a diverse workforce. They can have both.
Who said they have to choose? You employ people that can do the job, if it happens to be a diverse person equally as qualified then yes by all means pick the diverse person if you want. That is equality. If it happens to be that the few diverse people that apply are not as experienced as the average white male, who are you going to choose? If you choose the diverse person then you know nothing about business and it's probable you are not going to get very far financially in life.
 
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Darkmakaimura

Gold Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
You're right, that was a very long post.

It was also a very good post.

Anyway I can have this "text-ified" so I can post it on Twitter or something? I think this is worthy of being heard beyond this forum.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If you choose the diverse person then you know nothing about business and it's probable you are not going to get very far financially in life.
Also, what's the point of even giving it your all (kind of the point in getting through life as comfortable as possible without being broke) getting the best qualifications or academics you can if companies or government dont even bother hiring the best they can for the budget they got?

The point in achieving high levels of schooling, resumes and skills is so you do the best you can. So when it comes to a job offer or college acceptance, you know your skills (interview skills, talent or grades) are what got you it, and if you didn't it's due to someone who is better - not someone who hits a ratio box so HR can submit a employee demographic survey to government.
 
The amazing thing about all the companies big and small promoting Pride month. Doesn't matter if they make jet turbines or it's a local bakery. Rainbow colours everywhere, support Pride month, logo change on Linkedin, rainbow cupcakes etc....
I would have no problem with corporate Pride Month stuff if it wasn't so shallow and fake. And you're right, doesn't matter what the company does. Also it seems like they all race to be the first to declare their Pride credentials.

I got an email from Uber on June 1 with them declaring their Pride allegiance. You know they had that crafted beforehand and as soon as it hit June 1, boom, send the email out.

Out of all the companies who do a Pride month angle to their marketing, the % of businesses that actually help out the LBTQ+ people through financials donations, hiring opportunities, support programs, etc.... I bet it's no more than 5%.
Seriously. Again it goes to the shallowness. Take your corporate money and donate to LGBT causes. Teach us hetero adults about the history of gay rights in this country. The only reason I know about the historically/socially important Stonewall Riots (an important event in gay history) is because I stumbled on it on my own while going down a Wikipedia link rabbit hole.

Your 5% figure might be a pretty good educated guess.

They just use it for positive PR and bank the profits from any potential sales boost.

It's really no different than Christmas. The most comercialized holiday all year. Everyone gets time off, most people celebrate it in some fashion with fancy dinners and gifts. How many people actually treat it as a Christian holiday in a religious way? Hardly any. Most people arent even Christian. But it's that time of the year to amp on buying shit.
Anecdote time: I immigrated from a fairly Christian country, where December 25 is, you know, an actual religious holiday. No gift giving takes place. There's a separate day for that -- January 6, I believe -- since the rationale is that, that was around the time when the three Wise Kings took their gifts to baby Jesus.

So I was pretty shocked when I first immigrated to the US and found out that the primary purpose of Christmas in this country is for the gift giving, and people don't really seem to genuinely care about the religious part of it (the birth of Jesus).
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Anecdote time: I immigrated from a fairly Christian country, where December 25 is, you know, an actual religious holiday. No gift giving takes place. There's a separate day for that -- January 6, I believe -- since the rationale is that, that was around the time when the three Wise Kings took their gifts to baby Jesus.
Goes to show you my knowledge of Christmas is zero aside from what most societies treat it as (a big bull rush of buying shit).

I never knew the real celebration of Christmas day is no gifts and that really should happen on another day.

I bet almost nobody knows that. I dont now one person or family who does gifts in January.
 
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Perhaps if Twitter accounts weren't constantly demanding, under threat of "cancellation", megacorporations "validate" their social movements regardless or in spite of their stated political leanings, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
 

Kupfer

Member
I almost don't care about diversity in games as long as the characters are believable and well written and you can understand their motives. Whether someone is a gay drag queen or a muscular woman doesn't matter to me at first.
What really pisses me off is that you can't make a non-diverse game anymore, because every marginalized group has to be represented somewhere. And in these cases, diversity is forced into games with a sledgehammer, which makes a mockery of the actual diverse roles within the game, as it is unbelievable and inappropriate. As a person affected, I would be more annoyed by the trend than I would feel that it would help me and my being. In addition, as the OP correctly wrote out, that it is a trend, a trend, behind which for the companies no conviction for the cause stands, but money.

Therefore, do not demonize the thing, but the implementation. The market-driven companies will not give a shit about you and your well-being, but have only the profit in mind. Vote with your wallet and don't support this bullshit, we have no other choice.

The Blizzard launcher disappeared from my computer months ago and for years I don't buy EA / Ubisoft games anymore. Deceitfulness, marketing lies, greed and adapting to the latest trend and politically / socially popular opinion, without standing behind it have led to the fact that I would now be ashamed to continue to give these companies my money.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Everyone hates these corps and their cynical shallow messaging but they still rake in money. If people are talking about them in almost any way it seems to be good for them. They are betting that people hate their haters more than them and they have better market research than their haters.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Also it makes me think how many games was actually done for these people? I know about 1 game and that's Tell me Why. I meant like from big publishers, not indies. If they are so brave, why not make more of those games?

I still think that despite backlash from ReeEra, Cyberpunk 2077 has by far the best representation of LGBT.

Also I got to say, that landscape changed, from something like 2016 quite a lot, since I am still war twittering, I couldn't help myself, but seems like people are more normal. At least they make some reasonably funny memes:




Big change from screeching back then.
 
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Never underestimate any place of business or a corporation's ability to commoditise or otherwise wholesale adopt a cause to help boost their bank balance. The most infuriating part as rightfully pointed out by strange headache strange headache is the wholesale hypocrisy of this approach.

If many of these businesses were truly on board with the message behind Pride, BLM or whatever other cause they preach about so much, the entire company, planet-wide, should be promoting these causes, regardless of backlash from any market they operate in. The Middle-East accounts never adopting a Pride flag always makes me laugh because it points out exactly how sanctimonious these companies are. In that sense, it only undermines the entire cause when it can only be viewed as cynical "virtue signalling" or a blatant cash-grab.

Great thread, definitely important to point out the hypocrisy these companies engage in on a daily basis. There's no point trying to appear holier-than-thou when most of these companies have tonnes of dirty laundry that needs airing.

You're either all in or not at all.
 

Outlier

Member
I don't support it, but I won't tell them that they shouldn't do it.

I am my own person and I spend my money on things that interest me.

Displaying rainbows and LGBT+ signal virtuing isn't going to make me any more interested.

I remember my first and only time going to gay pride in SF 2015 and asking why mainstream corporations were selling their products on the streets during an event that has nothing to do with them. I then realized that those events were corrupted.
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff.

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to.

Outstanding contribution, thank you very much!

I find it fascinating how these companies are highlighting human values while employing every dirty trick to empty our pockets. They have successfully managed to weaponize identity for financials gains and customers are lapping it up. Products should never become such an important part of the expression of your character!

It is true that these approaches only lead to more stereotyping. People who share certain identitarian traits are not all alike, queer people are not a homogenous blob and neither are women, men or any other ethnicity. By doing so they erase any nuance while people are being reduced to checkbox characteristics. Social media marketing has lead to an enormous amount of group-thinking and and increased desire to belong to a certain societal group.
 
The worst part is that the causes themselves are made to be used that way (ie. The scholars at the forefront of the ideology actively court corporations and governments entities to enforce bunker rules like preferred pronouns at high cost in paid time, money and work relations. This also leads to made up PR messes, alienation of the client base, even those they claim they want to "include". They do this for high paying jobs, the corporations that do get in often do after a made up twitter storm happens, etc.).

We have seen it many times, corporations are willing partners in this, but the base of the ideology is rotten (obviously the words taken at face value are nice, who doesn't want everyone to be happy and included at all times?).
 
Outstanding contribution, thank you very much!
Of course man, happy to contribute however I can. This is a good (and necessary) topic and you did an excellent job covering a lot of bases.

Especially your big point about the hypocrisy. The sad thing about the hypocrisy is that companies fail to undertake these "causes" in places where they're needed the most. As said by you and others in many, many threads now, the problem of how to treat, respect, and welcome ethnic, racial, sexual minorities into the liberal West is resolved. In places where support for minorities is needed the most (outside of the liberal West) is where these companies are failing the most.

Plenty of examples of the hypocrisy but two that immediately come to mind are:
- Liberal west: Huge advertisement about the big gay topic in the new Dumbledore movie
- China: 6 seconds of the Dumbledore film are edited out by request from the Chinese government authorities because of gay content. The ensuing statement from the movie studio clearly sounds like garbage. If I were a gay man myself, I'd be not only disappointed, but pretty pissed, actually.

- Liberal west: New characters Finn and Poe are prominent in marketing materials for the new Star Wars movies
- China: Massively shrink (and from what I remember, almost hide?) Finn, and remove Poe altogether in the poster for Force Awakens
 

Griffon

Member
OK... *deep breath* Long ass post incoming.

I am a very pro-diversity person, myself being a racial/ethnic minority in the United States. It's always cool, at a personal level, to engage with people who are "different" than you because you get to learn new things and enrich your life in the process. I put "different" in quotes because, despite differences in culture, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc, at the end of the day we all have the same, universal macro-level human similarities. In the spirit of sounding like a broken record, I'll use GAF as an example: I'm a straight man myself. Some of my favorite posters on this forum are gay. THE (at least in my eyes) sweetest, most compassionate, most chill poster in this entire forum is trans, and for me it's not even a question. We have awesome posters from, literally, all over the world. So, can we set aside that yes, diversity is good? I think this is a simple thing we can easily and universally agree on. OK, moving on...

The OP makes points that have merit. Forced representation and corporate pandering are not just shallow and insincere, they're driven by cold blooded capitalism. [Disclaimer: I am a very pro-capitalist guy; there's that one quote about democracy as a government system, which I won't get exact but will paraphrase: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." That quote can be mapped to capitalism as a financial/economic system. But just like any other system, unchecked/unfettered capitalism obviously has its flaws.] And beyond that, It has two drawbacks:
  1. It's exploitative to the minorities/underrepresented groups that the companies claim to be championing
  2. It's actually culturally, personally, and professionally reductive/harmful to the minorities and underrepresented groups.
Exploitative: One thing I notice, especially around Pride Month, is the sheer commercialization of everything. Pride flags in bars and shops are not meant primarily as a celebration or call for "acceptance" or "justice", they're meant first and foremost as a way to entice you to that business and buy stuff. It's no different for video game companies. Sometimes the enticement may be explicit -- a DLC, a microtransaction item, etc; other times it's meant to say "Hey LGBT gamers, wink wink, nod nod, we're your 'ally'... please don't forget to buy our games." It's using people's group identity to get them to buy stuff; it's almost a textbook definition of "exploitation." Hell, in the 70s, lower budget movies started hiring primarily black actors, having soul/funk soundtracks, and storylines about the ghetto. This wasn't done for any major black pride reason, this was done expressly to get black people to buy those movie tickets. It was even given the name "Blaxploitation" by academics and historians because of this. I think this kind of exploitation is pretty dehumanizing, to be honest: "In actuality we don't care about the values of your group or, more importantly, about you as an individual; we simply want you to buy our stuff."

Reductive: People are complex individuals with many goals, desires, purpose in life, things they like and dislike, etc. So when companies -- video game or otherwise -- lump people into a group (and in the process play to the absolutely most stereotypical aspects of that group) it's actually a disservice to the person and to the group that the person feels they belong to. An anecdote: A few years ago, a chick I was dating took me as a guest to a social event her company was hosting for "Hispanic Heritage Month." Myself being of Hispanic background, the whole thing was so superficial, forced, and cringe as hell. There was bland, flavorless Tex-Mex -- not even genuine Mexican -- food, which is already an issue for me because even though I'm Hispanic, I'm not Mexican, and there's actually a fair amount of Tex-Mex stuff I don't like. The music was horrible -- it's the kind of sanitized Latin-tinged pop music that native-born Americans who don't listen to real Latin music may like. Think stuff like "Despacito," anything by Pitbull, etc. Then there was almost the worst offender: native-born Americans very awkwardly and badly trying to speak Spanish and trying -- in the words of one particular young lady -- to "connect with [my] experience." This was before the term "lived experience" -- which I hate with a fiery passion :messenger_grinning_smiling: -- was mainstreamed, but that was a proto version of that term. But because I'm not a party pooper, and because I had to not be a troll for my girlfriend's sake, I still tried to enjoy myself, even through all of that.

It may be an amusing/silly anecdote, but at a larger scale it absolutely stops being amusing and silly. Companies that stereotype in this way not only remove individuality, but affect the way that members who are not of that group see people of that group. "Oh, you're a gay guy? So you must be a rainbow-flagged, tight booty shorts, super effeminate diva" when what I've observed is that many gay guys do NOT fit the "super effeminate diva" profile. Since the city I live in has a very high gay population, there's some gay guys I've seen that are some of the manliest looking motherfuckers around; none of this diva business.

For hiring and quotas, it goes in two bad directions. You get underqualified people that either don't mind getting the job, or may even be wholesale "hustlers" and expressly take advantage of the minority status to get the job. These people then underperform, and all of their coworkers are internally reinforced in their stereotypes that "well, this person only got hired for their minority status, since they clearly lack the skill." Then for minorities that ARE legitimately qualified, and awesome, there's a sense of defeat in that you got hired primarily for your "group" membership, as opposed to your actual high level of skill for your job.

What needs to happen is that we all need to live by Martin Luther King's words, slightly modified by me for the 21st century. We need to get to a place "where [people] will not be judged by the color of their skin [or any other minority status[ but by the content of their character."

That applies to anyone. Jobs hiring. Video game companies and the way they behave both outwardly (for PR purposes) and internally (towards their employees). Stop pandering, and start treating people like individuals.
True and real.

I'm gonna frame this post on my wall.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I find it funny how all these game companies hype up diversity yet look at every company photo of all 100 employees staring at the cam with a smile on their face and literally 90% of them are white guys.

I can understand Japanese studios being all Japanese due to the demographic mix over there but you’d think in American and European game studios there’s got to be some more half decent game programmers and artists that aren’t white dudes.

But who knows. Maybe game making and artistry and audio recording for games is one of those industries where the employee pool in USA and UK as 90+% white men.

Some company photos there’s literally zero minorities or women. I’m not sure if those pics are just the game making people or include other functions but if it includes others functions like sales, marketing, finance and HR, it’s still almost all white guys too?

Why can't a group of white men be diverse? I'd say a group of white men from very different backgrounds (straight/gay, Roman Catholic/Jewish/non-religious, US/Argentina/Poland, conservative/liberal, college educated/self-taught) can be more diverse than a group of ultra woke queer/transgender peeps who all think, talk, dress and look the same.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Why can't a group of white men be diverse? I'd say a group of white men from very different backgrounds (straight/gay, Roman Catholic/Jewish/non-religious, US/Argentina/Poland, conservative/liberal, college educated/self-taught) can be more diverse than a group of ultra woke queer/transgender peeps who all think, talk, dress and look the same.
I 100% agree. Pretty sure there's a difference between a French guy and an Aussie in terms of culture, language, religion etc....

Difference is, the media's definition of diversity (in tv, movies, gaming) is physical attributes.

You can have a white and black guy raised in the same house by the same parents doing everything together. Two peas in a pod. Then you can have two white men - one is raised in Sweden and has money. The other raised in Quebec and living off government assistance.

The media will portray the first group of guys as more diverse than the Swede and Francphone.

It's all about looks.
 
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REDRZA MWS

Member
“LiP service” was inevitably created by the woke mob. It is in direct result of all the crybaby, offended, cancel bullshit that not only the gaming industry, but every industry is considered “complicit” if they DON’T put woke messaging everywhere.

They’ve created this monster. Make your bed, got to sleep in it.
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Why can't a group of white men be diverse? I'd say a group of white men from very different backgrounds (straight/gay, Roman Catholic/Jewish/non-religious, US/Argentina/Poland, conservative/liberal, college educated/self-taught) can be more diverse than a group of ultra woke queer/transgender peeps who all think, talk, dress and look the same.
Because that narrative doesn’t fit their agenda.
 
True and real.

I'm gonna frame this post on my wall.
Thanks, friend! I have a feeling that my perspective is the one that most "average" or "normal" people have: we all accept, befriend, and encourage minorities of all sorts -- hell, the US, a supposedly "terribly racist and xenophobic" country according to some extremists, accepted *me* (an immigrant of brown skin) with wide open arms. But in the past few years, there has been a social/political overshoot that is damaging the causes that it claims to champion, and the OP did a fantastic job of highlighting one aspect of that.

Why can't a group of white men be diverse? I'd say a group of white men from very different backgrounds (straight/gay, Roman Catholic/Jewish/non-religious, US/Argentina/Poland, conservative/liberal, college educated/self-taught) can be more diverse than a group of ultra woke queer/transgender peeps who all think, talk, dress and look the same.
This is a really awesome point! "Diversity" has honestly become a tainted word, almost completely warped from its original meaning.

I think GAF is a TRULY diverse place. We have Christians, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and I'm sure people of many different religious affiliations. We have Americans, British, Australians (although they don't count, they're not real people... 😂), many Latin Americans, Asians, people from all over mainland Europe, Africa, etc. We have PlayStation fanboys, Xbox fanboys, Nintendo fanboys, and glorious PC members who rule above all other groups (LMAO you can tell I'm trying to inject some humor, nobody shoot me please 😂). We have people that like modern games and the latest cutting edge stuff; alternatively we have some retro super-fans. We have people that only ever play Japanese games, and on the other side many others who are big fans of modern Western stuff.

I can seriously go on for about 3 pages listing out the various aspects in which this is a truly diverse place.
 
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Drew1440

Member
I'm sure this was posted before, but the Joe Rogan interview explains it:

Companies benefit from it, so its not like they're doing it from the heart, although its makes for good PR too.
The real problem is when companies try to push affirmative action and start introducing hiring quotas, which benefits no one and is pretty much racism.
 

UnNamed

18+ Member
Companies don't really care, they don't waste their time to improve society in any wqy, they just want to tell you "hey, we're good like you and we like the same things you like ! So since we are on the same side, please buy our products from people like you."
 

Woopah

Member
It is in most of the countries.
I'm fairly certain women make up more than 10% of the population in most European countries
Who said they have to choose? You employ people that can do the job, if it happens to be a diverse person equally as qualified then yes by all means pick the diverse person if you want. That is equality. If it happens to be that the few diverse people that apply are not as experienced as the average white male, who are you going to choose? If you choose the diverse person then you know nothing about business and it's probable you are not going to get very far financially in life.
Right, but if a business is finding that only one type of talent is applying to work there, then that is something they should be addressing. If the vast majority of people applying for jobs with you are only from one part of the population, then that means you are missing out on other sources of talent.

Part of a company I'm working with is going through this very challenge, where not many women are applying for jobs there. So the company is taking action to fix this.
 

nkarafo

Member
Media in general has turn to shit because of this. Movies, games, comics, etc.

Vitrue signaling and checking diversity boxes is bad enough but the worst thing is the low talent/skill diversity hires. As such, quality has dropped dramatically wherever they operate. That or they just burn resources for no reason.

I'm glad there is a huge backlog of old media, games, movies, etc, that aren't infected by this. Big enough to last a lifetime. Or at least until this stupid bubble is burst. Though i don't think it will unless some major event happens in the west.
 
Media in general has turn to shit because of this. Movies, games, comics, etc.

Vitrue signaling and checking diversity boxes is bad enough but the worst thing is the low talent/skill diversity hires. As such, quality has dropped dramatically wherever they operate. That or they just burn resources for no reason.

I'm glad there is a huge backlog of old media, games, movies, etc, that aren't infected by this. Big enough to last a lifetime. Or at least until this stupid bubble is burst. Though i don't think it will unless some major event happens in the west.
These "back in my day" argument always make me laugh. Art is good now, art was good 20 years ago, art will be good 300 years in the future. You just haven't found smth that works for you or have doubled down on you "back in my day" mindset. No way you play elden ring, hollow knight, inside, GOW, tlou2 and go "god bless contra, games back then were so much better".
 
I love how every time I load up Apex legends it's yapping about trans rights with the latest ugly ass flag. Let me shoot virtual people you freaking dorks.

Also what rights don't trans people have. If some other country doesn't recognize those they them types then have some balls and call out Saudi Arabia out specifically pussies.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I love how every time I load up Apex legends it's yapping about trans rights with the latest ugly ass flag. Let me shoot virtual people you freaking dorks.

Also what rights don't trans people have. If some other country doesn't recognize those they them types then have some balls and call out Saudi Arabia out specifically pussies.
Who knows.

The consensus by media (including game makers) is that every person in the LBGT+ group is so oppressed where straight people dump on them 24/7. So best way to realign things is motivational media to prop up their spirits, while lecturing all the straight people as if they are all one unified group of anti-straights.

Media, sports teams, tech companies. Good luck in seeing them push this kind of stuff there.

Easy to criticize when there's no money on line. Hard to criticize when there's foreign currency dangled in their face.

Again, goes to show much corporations care about diversity and Pride month. Only when there's moolah to grab is it worth promoting.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Who knows.

The consensus by media (including game makers) is that every person in the LBGT+ group is so oppressed where straight people dump on them 24/7. So best way to realign things is motivational media to prop up their spirits, while lecturing all the straight people as if they are all one unified group of anti-straights.

Media, sports teams, tech companies. Good luck in seeing them push this kind of stuff there.

Easy to criticize when there's no money on line. Hard to criticize when there's foreign currency dangled in their face.

Again, goes to show much corporations care about diversity and Pride month. Only when there's moolah to grab is it worth promoting.
Hell, you have players in major league baseball right now refusing to wear the flag/color arrangements on their uniforms.

People are starting to push back against the unnatural brow beating.
 
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Media in general has turn to shit because of this. Movies, games, comics, etc.

Vitrue signaling and checking diversity boxes is bad enough but the worst thing is the low talent/skill diversity hires. As such, quality has dropped dramatically wherever they operate. That or they just burn resources for no reason.

I'm glad there is a huge backlog of old media, games, movies, etc, that aren't infected by this. Big enough to last a lifetime. Or at least until this stupid bubble is burst. Though i don't think it will unless some major event happens in the west.
In my opinion, the "art" of games comes from a small handful of people on the team. As someone else has already pointed out, we're still getting a flow of what I would consider high art (in terms of gaming). Savants are gonna savant.

What has seemed to fall behind is basic competency. The meat and potatoes work. Look at how many games struggle to even function when released. During PS360 era there were nearly a dozen multiplayer FPS games that released in a playable state per year. Many lacked artistic vision, but I don't remember them being as mechanically broken as what we get now. The number of functional FPS MP games has dropped down to 1 or 2 working titles a year. COD and either Halo or Apex depending on the year. To me the prospect of this is even scarier. I see the same basic slippage in my professional life. I'm working on a giant R&D project for a big household name company, and the basic fundamentals are completely absent from most of the engineering team. The team is made up pretty much how you'd expect for a global mega corp, and they're absolutely helpless. I have no doubts China is working on the same technology and I have to believe they're way further ahead. Our people roll in around 10:30AM (if they don't WFH everyday) and just can't complete simple, co-op tier tasks. Of course during meetings accountability is considered a curse word and it's not uncommon for someone to break down in tears almost every day.
 

The Alien

Member
Happy that some a waking up to the phone y and transparent corporate pandering.

They don't care about any communities except those that will give them money. If it would cost them business/money to 'rainbow' their logos for a month, you bet your ass they wouldn't do it.

It's not brave or some sort of fierce clapback...it's the same as its ever been. It's about money.
 

TheGecko

Banned
Media in general has turn to shit because of this. Movies, games, comics, etc.

Vitrue signaling and checking diversity boxes is bad enough but the worst thing is the low talent/skill diversity hires. As such, quality has dropped dramatically wherever they operate. That or they just burn resources for no reason.

I'm glad there is a huge backlog of old media, games, movies, etc, that aren't infected by this. Big enough to last a lifetime. Or at least until this stupid bubble is burst. Though i don't think it will unless some major event happens in the west.

You are spot on here. It's not just entertainment either.

I work for a utility company and over the last 3 years diversity hires has basically made the place a hell hole, The boots on the ground tell the high management of the issues but the diversity hires make reports how "we are operative above requirements because of our decisions"

It's unreal.
 

Rheon

Member
Thanks, friend! I have a feeling that my perspective is the one that most "average" or "normal" people have: we all accept, befriend, and encourage minorities of all sorts -- hell, the US, a supposedly "terribly racist and xenophobic" country according to some extremists, accepted *me* (an immigrant of brown skin) with wide open arms. But in the past few years, there has been a social/political overshoot that is damaging the causes that it claims to champion, and the OP did a fantastic job of highlighting one aspect of that.


This is a really awesome point! "Diversity" has honestly become a tainted word, almost completely warped from its original meaning.

I think GAF is a TRULY diverse place. We have Christians, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and I'm sure people of many different religious affiliations. We have Americans, British, Australians (although they don't count, they're not real people... 😂), many Latin Americans, Asians, people from all over mainland Europe, Africa, etc. We have PlayStation fanboys, Xbox fanboys, Nintendo fanboys, and glorious PC members who rule above all other groups (LMAO you can tell I'm trying to inject some humor, nobody shoot me please 😂). We have people that like modern games and the latest cutting edge stuff; alternatively we have some retro super-fans. We have people that only ever play Japanese games, and on the other side many others who are big fans of modern Western stuff.

I can seriously go on for about 3 pages listing out the various aspects in which this is a truly diverse place.

Right on about the diversity of GAF.

Yet a certain other forum and certain media publications would simply label GAF as a forum of 'white incels' lol.
 

Rheon

Member
As many in this thread have already put far more eloquently than I'm about to: corporations simply follow the money.

Almost every cause/holiday that has been perverted by capitalism had humble beginnings and their celebrations once had meaning. It's happened with pretty much every popular Western holiday and now it's happened to Pride, albeit at a much more accelerated pace. Hell, even Juneteeth (which was only recently declared a federal holiday) isn't immune. Corporations are already rushing to milk it dry.

Corporations KNOW these declarations of 'support' and 'solidarity' are hollow and surface-level but they do it anyway, because they know more people will buy their products and services because of it than despite. Most people want to be on the 'right' side and these corps supporting a popular cause is all the validation they need.
 

Toons

Member
I've found everyone is ok with companies pandering until its pandering to a group that isnt them.

Nothing has changed but who the target of the pandering is. Its been the same strategy the whole time and it works.

So on one hand I get complaining about useless platitudes that don't have genuine meaning behind them but on the other hand can you blame them? And if you think its lgbt people they are pandering too you're wrong. Its people who support lgbt people who are buying rainbow mugs and stuff. Lgbt folk just buy regular stuff like everyone else.

I can look at older media and see clear pandering to different groups and cultures as well.its always been that way. I think being aware of it makes it less harmful.

As for more representation in product im all for it, industries spent too long being blocked off from such avenues for some people.
 
LGBT rights, not something I actively pay attention to.

But people about complain about this shit are super annoying. People that say woke, and people that are furries are in the same camp to me. Extremely silly people. Businesses selling merch and selling games to this market isnt very complicated. Money, duh. Dont take it too deep.
 
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