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Randy Pitchford only has time for Colonial Marines praise, [losing money on Aliens]

Moss

Member
Feb 4, 2009
272
0
0
www.ollymoss.com
Take responsibility and be a man about it.

He doesn't have to do it on Twitter. In fact, I would hope he does not. This deserves a full interview/article.

He really just shouldn't be saying anything on Twitter at all until he gets a chance to explain himself to a real journalist. Not just going around telling people on Twitter he's blocking them.
I'm sure this will happen eventually.
 

ezekial45

I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
Aug 4, 2006
24,276
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Rebellion may be second or third tier developers, but at least they put all their heart and soul into AvP 2010. At least they came in on time. At least they made it their top priority.

No wonder its the better game. That more than anything else should be damning for Randy. He let a vastly inferior developer do a better job of making an Alien game for a fraction of the money and in a fraction of the time. He put the focus on other projects. The blame is pretty much all his in my eyes. It sure seems like it was business decisions that broke this thing.
Exactly, I'm absolutely in favor of Rebellion getting another shot at AvP2. I definitely trust them infinitely more than GBX.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Jun 12, 2010
13,444
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825
I'm not sure it's fair to automatically assume the praise are from fake accounts. I've made twitter names on the spot before to comment on something when I forgot my old password. If there's a lot of heat being thrown around, someone who genuinely enjoyed the game who didn't have a twitter account may make one quickly just to let the devs know they liked it after seeing how much negativity was tossed at Pitchford.
 
Oct 13, 2012
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I know nothing about their development process, but Gearbox do not seem like the kind of people who'd actively seek to deceive their fans. Its development was clearly troubled, and the game was likely pushed to market by an anxious publisher.

From a creative standpoint, the best thing to do would have been to delay and retool the game. But that's not always possible when you're dealing with the sorts of money in play here. But, then again, that's the risk you take when you accept projects as large as this.

As for Randy's silence. Sure. He must know by now that ACM was not a particularly good game. Acknowledging it publicly would burn bridges with its publisher. Not only that, but shame and embarrass all the people who worked on it, people he knows and likes. Nobody went into this project intending or expecting to make a bad game.

I really sympathise with him. The most depressing parts of my career have been when I've been forced to put out work that has been sub par and needed more time, but my hands were tied. And yeah, I don't want to talk about it either.
It is certainly a nuanced issue and I absolutely feel for creatives when things like this happen, but there are a few other elements at play here. Randy (it feels odd using the first name of someone I will never meet) hasn't exactly been silent. This thread in particular started because he resurfaced on twitter to promote his game on twitter.

This is a huge problem with how games are marketed in my opinion. It dosen't make sense that the person heading up development is also the face of the marketing campaign. I get why PR departments push such things, but when things go sideways like they did with Colonial Marine it puts one person in two crossfires simultaneously. So now Randy is handcuffed, which sucks for him.

Of course when he responds to this now I am put in a position where I don't know who is speaking. Is it the developer or the PR guy? I want to talk to the developer. I like developers! I want to scold at the PR guy. We don't like PR guys!

Game development is getting more and more expensive. Publishers are responding by being even more controlling with their marketing and press access. While I don't think there was straight up lying/deception in this case, if things keep going down this road, it is going to happen.

As a consumer I have to rely on the gaming press to combat this. If they don't then we will reach a point where I won't be able to believe anything a developer says about their game. Which sucks because I like developers!

Sorry for the length, but I am procrastinating pretty hard right now.
 

MikeE21286

Member
Jun 15, 2007
23,767
0
1,110
Originally Posted by Randy Pitchford:
Randy Pitchford ‏@DuvalMagic

@Weemanjoe I'm afraid it looks like I will lose a huge amount of money. We pay for our education...


Not sure what to say to this.

I mean with the way that this all played out I really don't feel bad. But you never want to wish people misfortune.

I just want him to come out and publicly say something about all of this.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
10,497
4,439
1,100
bangai-o said:
sega pays for the game to be made, gives them a Team Ico deadline, markets the game just like their supposed to, distributes it, and the dev studio apparently has no responsibility in this ordeal?
I'm not absolving Gearbox of responsibility, just pointing out that SEGA as publisher had full oversight and executive control. By releasing the thing SEGA implicitly rubber-stamped their approval of it.

Its really that simple, you can't single out the developer when their backers have OK'd it!

The key thing is that its a partnership, with the quality of the final product being a result of both parties' efforts.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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I think it's fucking appalling how many people in the creative industries cannot take criticism on any level. It's an absolutely fundamental cornerstone of working in any medium, otherwise your work stagnates and doesn't improve. How do they not get that?
 

RoKKeR

Member
Oct 17, 2012
23,405
2
0
What a disaster this game and the talk surrounding it has been. The way Gearbox and Randy have handled it is borderline offensive.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Apr 8, 2005
15,737
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Hey OP, full quote without mentioning where that article comes from? How about a link to it or at least say who's the writer/website... netiquette, who art thou?
Is that the full article or there's more btw? Juicy stuff :D
 

dmr87

Member
Mar 29, 2012
10,988
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0
Sweden
Hey OP, full quote without mentioning where that article comes from? How about a link to it or at least say who's the writer/website... netiquette, who art thou?
Is that the full article or there's more btw? Juicy stuff :D
Jim Sterling wrote the article on Destructoid, you have the link at the bottom of the OP, the stuff about losing money and that extra tweet were added by a mod.
 

Bedlam

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Oct 4, 2011
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Originally Posted by Randy Pitchford:
Randy Pitchford ‏@DuvalMagic

@Weemanjoe I'm afraid it looks like I will lose a huge amount of money. We pay for our education...

Not sure what to say to this.

I mean with the way that this all played out I really don't feel bad. But you never want to wish people misfortune.

I just want him to come out and publicly say something about all of this.
Well, by the looks of it they financed a good bit of Borderlands(2)'s development with money that was supposed to go into producing A:CM. And they made lots of money with the Borderlands games.

And what money does he lose? Some bonus payments because the game didn't reach a certain score on metacritic? I'm sure he said goodbye to that as soon as he decided to heavily outsource the project to other studios.
 

HueyFreeman

Banned
Jul 27, 2011
4,238
1
625
Originally Posted by Randy Pitchford:
Randy Pitchford ‏@DuvalMagic

@Weemanjoe I'm afraid it looks like I will lose a huge amount of money. We pay for our education...


Not sure what to say to this.

I mean with the way that this all played out I really don't feel bad. But you never want to wish people misfortune.

I just want him to come out and publicly say something about all of this.
But I thought it was strongly suspected they took Sega's money and re-invested it into Borderlands 2 - was that just rumor?

Either way, it's really hard to generate sympathy for them. After Duke and Aliens, it just seems like it would be better if they'd disappear as a developer and stop producing games. I'm sure it doesn't help that i don't enjoy BL, but they're doing more damage as a dev than good.
 

thumb

Banned
Jun 17, 2012
1,513
0
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But I thought it was strongly suspected they took Sega's money and re-invested it into Borderlands 2 - was that just rumor?

Either way, it's really hard to generate sympathy for them. After Duke and Aliens, it just seems like it would be better if they'd disappear as a developer and stop producing games. I'm sure it doesn't help that i don't enjoy BL, but they're doing more damage as a dev than good.
Let's not get hyperbolic. Borderlands and its successor were excellent games that millions of people enjoyed and continue to enjoy. Gearbox has chops, they just need to focus on what matters.
 

antitrop

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Feb 19, 2011
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Man I hope they lose a whole lot of money. First they fucked up Duke, now they fuck up Aliens. What assholes.
How did they fuck up Duke?
That thing was already fucked up, they just put the rotting corpse in a suit and decided to have an open funeral.

Saying Gearbox fucked up Duke Nukem is like saying the mortician is responsible for the death of the person they are preparing the funeral for.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,525
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0
Man I hope they lose a whole lot of money. First they fucked up Duke, now they fuck up Aliens. What assholes.
They deserve all the criticism that they get for Aliens, but it's definitely not fair to blame them for what happened to Duke.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Mar 10, 2005
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Originally Posted by Randy Pitchford:
Randy Pitchford ‏@DuvalMagic

@Weemanjoe I'm afraid it looks like I will lose a huge amount of money. We pay for our education...


Not sure what to say to this.

I mean with the way that this all played out I really don't feel bad. But you never want to wish people misfortune.

I just want him to come out and publicly say something about all of this.
Yeah. I wouldn't want any company to suffer but he brought it on himself. He accepted the contract for delivering the game and basically forgot about it/farmed it out to other companies.

I'd still like to see a public apology and how he is going to correct this.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
Mar 28, 2011
9,644
0
0
How did they fuck up Duke?
That thing was already fucked up, they just put the rotting corpse in a suit and decided to have an open funeral.

Saying Gearbox fucked up Duke Nukem is like saying the mortician is responsible for the death of the person they are preparing the funeral for.
They put their name on it though. They could have delayed it to make it less of an abomination. Or, looking at ACM I doubt they could.
 

Polari

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Jan 20, 2005
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How did they fuck up Duke?
That thing was already fucked up, they just put the rotting corpse in a suit and decided to have an open funeral.

Saying Gearbox fucked up Duke Nukem is like saying the mortician is responsible for the death of the person they are preparing the funeral for.
They still released it. I'm still bitter. Don't worry, everyone else involved (damn you to hell, George Broussard) is on my shit list too.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Sep 24, 2006
20,113
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far left of center
Let's not get hyperbolic. Borderlands and its successor were excellent games that millions of people enjoyed and continue to enjoy. Gearbox has chops, they just need to focus on what matters.
Well lets tell it true then... Bordelands occupies a niche that has no direct competition. They were smart for blending FPS and Loot. The game resonated because it's co-op and loot wrapped in familiar FPS packaging. The concept is quite good. Just, the game isn't. The loot isn't really that great. And as a shooter, it isn't really that great. The writing is occasionally entertaining if you enjoy internet memes and pop culture, but there's little more to it than that. The game really caught people's attention with an art style they fucking stole, last minute, when their own diarrhea-slurry "brown" aesthetic was circling the toilet. It is a mediocre game, salvaged by someone else's art direction and the inherent enjoyment of playing with friends. Play the game solo to see how mediocre it is.
 

doniewhalberg

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Mar 20, 2012
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Yeah. I wouldn't want any company to suffer but he brought it on himself. He accepted the contract for delivering the game and basically forgot about it/farmed it out to other companies.

I'd still like to see a public apology and how he is going to correct this.
Absolutely. The guy should absolutely lose money and face over this. He can get high and mighty too about not tolerating threats and that's fair, but also not tolerating personal insults? Sounds like everyone involved with this game deserves to be personally insulted. Putting your finger sin your ears is not a solution to this. I hope the guy lost money on this and I hope it teaches everyone involved not to dupe people and sell them crap. Who cares if it was true when they showed it/said it? The final game isn't anything like that, EVERYONE involved knew, and everyone was perfectly happy selling it to the consumer base they expect to come back to them next time round, and only now have something to say to it.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
Mar 26, 2007
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Well lets tell it true then... Bordelands occupies a niche that has no direct competition. They were smart for blending FPS and Loot. The game resonated because it's co-op and loot wrapped in familiar FPS packaging. The concept is quite good. Just, the game isn't. The loot isn't really that great. And as a shooter, it isn't really that great. The writing is occasionally entertaining if you enjoy internet memes and pop culture, but there little more to than that. The game really caught people's attention with an art style they fucking stole, last minute, when their own diarrhea-slurry "brown" aesthetic was circling the toilet. It is a mediocre game, salvaged by someone else's art direction and the inherent enjoyment of playing with friends. Play the game solo to see how mediocre it is.
Wow, that's some venom there...

I solo'd all of Borderlands and had a splendid time of it. Also, out of curiousity, where did they 'steal' the art style from?
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Apr 21, 2008
27,398
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This is how Gearbox can redeem themselves:
1) License CryEngine 3
2) Make an Aliens game with it.
 

Forsaken82

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Oct 9, 2010
6,249
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Dan ‏@Extremely_Moist
@DuvalMagic So basically you're putting your fingers in your ears about a poor product your company shipped? Real mature.

Randy Pitchford ‏@DuvalMagic
@Extremely_Moist No - we have countless paths for feedback and are learning many lessons. My personal twitter is my own. Also, blocked...

hahaha What a douchebag.
How is that a douchebag thing? people start questioning your professional integrity on a personal level and you wouldn't act the same?
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Sep 24, 2006
20,113
0
0
far left of center
Wow, that's some venom there...

I solo'd all of Borderlands and had a splendid time of it. Also, out of curiousity, where did they 'steal' the art style from?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47777701&postcount=2154

Well after the CODEHUNTERS plagiarism shit that Pitchford and Gearbox tried to pull off and subsequent denials then admitting used as "artistic inspiration" I'm surprised anyone takes a word that comes out of this guys mouth honestly.

For your perusal if you not aware of how Borderlands "unique" art style is pretty much a cut and paste. How Gearbox is still in business is beyond me.
http://www.gatheryourparty.com/articles/2012/11/12/pound-of-flesh/
 

Loxley

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Jul 11, 2008
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How is that a douchebag thing? people start questioning your professional integrity on a personal level and you wouldn't act the same?
Confronting him by being straight-up assholes seems to be what a lot of people are doing. That said, he has ignored fair questions even when they were written in a considerate fashion. He's really not doing himself any favors at all at the moment.
 

thumb

Banned
Jun 17, 2012
1,513
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Well lets tell it true then... Bordelands occupies a niche that has no direct competition. They were smart for blending FPS and Loot. The game resonated because it's co-op and loot wrapped in familiar FPS packaging. The concept is quite good. Just, the game isn't. The loot isn't really that great. And as a shooter, it isn't really that great. The writing is occasionally entertaining if you enjoy internet memes and pop culture, but there's little more to it than that. The game really caught people's attention with an art style they fucking stole, last minute, when their own diarrhea-slurry "brown" aesthetic was circling the toilet. It is a mediocre game, salvaged by someone else's art direction and the inherent enjoyment of playing with friends. Play the game solo to see how mediocre it is.
It's true that they took the art style from an animated film, as well as the opening bus scene. I don't really have a problem with that. They saw a way to improve their game and ran with it, and it worked. Taking inspiration from other art is fine, especially if it's implicit praise. Borderlands is full of references and allusions.

I dont agree with the implication that the novelty of combining loot and FPS gameplay explains BL's popularity. If the core mechanics were poorly implemented Borderlands would not have sustained such positive word of mouth.

Also, I mostly play Borderlands single-player. And the story is nothing to write home about, no doubt. But they're slowly improving on that front.
 

Jim Sterling

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Apr 20, 2008
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Confronting him by being an asshole seems to be what a lot of people are doing. That said, he has ignored fair questions even when they were written in a considerate fashion.
This is an important thing to note. He's making a big show of the "injuring" comments and the insults, but people have requested comment and offered reasonable critique only to receive nothing. Both the press and the community have been totally locked out of discourse on this, and it's hardly surprising people have gotten really quite angry over it.
 

antitrop

Member
Feb 19, 2011
46,348
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twitter.com
How is that a douchebag thing? people start questioning your professional integrity on a personal level and you wouldn't act the same?
Telling people that you're ignoring/blocking them before actually doing so is one of the most childish things you can do in an internet discussion.

By all means, feel free to take advantage of the features offered to you. But you don't have to make it a point to let every person know that you are now choosing to ignore everything they say from now until eternity.

Imagine if I made a NeoGAF post telling every person that I added to my ignore list that I will be doing so. It would be ridiculous, and I would be a joke.

So is Randy a joke, today.
 

TheBaronOfNA

Banned
Apr 28, 2012
9,044
0
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Tacoland
I was reading this at work. My god unbelievable..and he blocked Jim Sterling? That this is happening boggles my mind.
I'm shocked that people think that Sterling is "fighting the good fight" in game journalism, even he admitted here that there is a part of show ridding here.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
Aug 4, 2004
16,221
2
1,410
Yeah its amazing how different the videogame industry is from the movie industry in that respect. Your movie is a turd? Too bad. Its still getting watched and reviewed before it releases. How the fuck has such a dishonest and consumer unfriendly practice evolved in the game industry?
Lots of movies are not screened for critics ahead of release specifically because the studios know they're not going to be reviewed well. I would be willing to bet that the notion of videogame review embargoes originally came from the film industry.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 9, 2010
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Confronting him by being an asshole seems to be what a lot of people are doing. That said, he has ignored fair questions even when they were written in a considerate fashion.
He has ignored fair questions because of the assholes. I can't blame him. I still fail to see how it makes him a douchebag. It just boils down to him not wanting to deal with anyone of it from HIS twitter. I am sure in a weeks time, a statement will release.
 

Nokterian

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Jul 20, 2012
18,402
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I'm shocked that people think that Sterling is "fighting the good fight" in game journalism, even he admitted here that there is a part of show ridding here.
Sure,but what randy is doing well call me crazy. It does more harm then good. Not showing that you failed and not admitting it. Is way more low then just blocking people.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 9, 2010
6,249
1
585
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Telling people that you're ignoring/blocking them before actually doing so is one of the most childish things you can do in an internet discussion.

By all means, feel free to take advantage of the features offered to you. But you don't have to make it a point to let every person know that you are now choosing to ignore everything they say from now until eternity.

Imagine if I made a NeoGAF post telling every person that I added to my ignore list that I will be doing so. It would be ridiculous, and I would be a joke.

So is Randy a joke, today.
I have seen a ton of people do this on gaf... Do I think they are a joke? Not at all. They simply want to tell the person "hey guess what, you are ignored now, get off my case"

And its working for Randy because when he ignores you guys, you come and whine about it on NeoGAF instead of on his personal twitter.

What is more childish? Ignoring a personal attack or whining about being ignored because of a personal attack? (and by attack i don't mean just people saying random shit, but im lumping in the actual considerate questions about his integrity into this as well because when it all comes down to it, his integrity is still called into question, and he doesn't have to dignify any of us with answers)
 

jabuseika

Member
Feb 18, 2011
4,643
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Is there not a PR person around to tell him he's making the hole deeper?

Stop antagonizing your customers, and unless you have an explanation ready, don't open your mouth all over twitter.

Blocking journalists for asking questions in public? What a shame Gearbox.
 

TheBaronOfNA

Banned
Apr 28, 2012
9,044
0
0
Tacoland
Sure,but what randy is doing well call me crazy. It does more harm then good. Not showing that you failed and not admitting it. Is way more low then just blocking people.
Because he is a CEO and a PR people and he is in a no win situation (of his own making, admittedly) that affects his whole company. He can not admit outright that the game is shit.
 

Loxley

Member
Jul 11, 2008
20,712
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0
Whoa, I never knew about this, which is shocking to me considering I'm normally pretty up-to-date with the independent animation scene. Man I'd love to play a game set in that Codehunters universe. It looks like it takes itself relatively seriously, which I think contrasts its style in an interesting way.

It has to be extremely irritating for the creator to hear from people that "Codehunters looks a lot like Borderlands".