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Social Ratchet and clank Overlooked nextgen features

Jun 1, 2016
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How is that relevant?
 
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Epic Sax CEO

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Yeah im just curious they might not even be using the geometry engine it could just be the traditional faster processors and more ram but here we go everything is smooth.

Even if the Mesh Shaders aren't being used, and I don't believe they are, I can still see models that are not perfectly smooth, the "Primitive Engine" path, or what that thing was called on Vega, looks like it's finally working. Before Mesh Shaders AMD tried to change the polygon engine to allow much more polygons on screen without losing performance.
 
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fart town usa

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People sleeping on R&C need to wake up. It's consistently been one of the best franchises in gaming since the PS2 days. I jumped in with TOD on the PS3 and sought out the rest. The games are simply amazing.
 

Zathalus

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I was just joking man. You're right. I was wrong, here's your power of the SSD mate


/end of useless "my thingy is better" posts

SSD's do make a difference but for the "difference" they make I doubt theres much difference between a regular 1gb/s ssd than to a 5-8gb/s ssd in terms of world building, assets loading, etc.

Time will tell but using Ratchet n Clank for this ain't it chief. You can do that on a PC aswell and saying you can't because the game doesnt exist on PC is not an excuse.
You should really use a game that is not running in BC mode and actually takes advantage of the new hardware, the recent Avengers update for example is a perfect example of this:


17 seconds vs 4 seconds.

My PC and PS5 is the same, close to 20 seconds to load on my PC (5950x, Samsung 980 Pro) vs under 4 seconds on the PS5. Avengers PS5 could be even faster as it is not using Oodle compression.

Of course DirectStorage DX12 API update will allow for better loading on the PC, but you will still need that Gen 4.0 NVMe to keep pace with the PS5.
 
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Zeroing

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Okay. We will find out soon enough. SSD's aren't some special sauce like so many people at Sony want you to believe.
It doesn’t take a genis to understand that even at a basic level if you put an SSD on a pc it will run faster…

now if we were discussing the “power of the cloud” thing circa 2015… that was a really difficult concept…
 

rodrigolfp

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My PC and PS5 is the same, close to 20 seconds to load on my PC (5950x, Samsung 980 Pro) vs under 4 seconds on the PS5. Avengers PS5 could be even faster as it is not using Oodle compression.
Was the game patched to use the full speed of the SSD on PC?
 

Thirty7ven

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Mark Cerny - "We didn't do all this just for loading times, it's much more than that"
Devs - "It completely changes our approach to game development, and what kind of games we can create."
EPIC - "Well look at this U5 demo. We expect devs to come up with ideas we never even though of, this is just the beginning."
Forum Dwellers - "So what, loading screens go faster, big deal. It's the same games I've been playing on PC since windows XP"
 
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Zok310

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Your so thick and dont understand anything at all, you just keep speeing hatred its as if you dont want the ps5 io to exist its like you cant sleep. Your ignorance is your biggest problem. Go and protest outside if you dont like it. Ive explained to u enough times but u either hate understanding or just despise knowledge.
You wasting your time, he a hater, ignore and move on.
 
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Zathalus

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Was the game patched to use the full speed of the SSD on PC?
There is nothing to patch yet, PC is limited by legacy software overhead and loading of assets. That is why DirectStorage is such a big thing for PC. Once that is out and games are patched to take advantage of that, then I fully expect a PC with high end SSDs to more or less match the PS5.

The problem for PC at the moment is a software one, not a hardware one.
 
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rodrigolfp

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There is nothing to patch yet, PC is limited by legacy software overhead and loading of assets. That is why DirectStorage is such a big thing for PC. Once that is out and games are patched to take advantage of that, then I fully expect a PC with high end SSDs to more or less match the PS5.

The problem for PC at the moment is a software one, not a hardware one.
Then you also should really use a game that is not running in "BC mode" on PC and actually takes advantage of the "new hardware" on pc.
 
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Zathalus

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Then you also should really use a game that is not running in "BC mode" on PC and actually takes advantage of the "new hardware" on pc.
With what exactly? DirectStorage is not available yet.

I was pointing out that the fast storage in the new consoles absolutely make a difference when comparing it to a PC title. The poster I was responding to was trying to pass off the new consoles as having no advantage over current PCs when it comes to raw speed, when they totally do.

I'm sure PC will once again match or surpass consoles once DirectStorage is available and games take advantage of it.
 

rodrigolfp

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With what exactly? DirectStorage is not available yet.

I was pointing out that the fast storage in the new consoles absolutely make a difference when comparing it to a PC title. The poster I was responding to was trying to pass off the new consoles as having no advantage over current PCs when it comes to raw speed, when they totally do.

I'm sure PC will once again match or surpass consoles once DirectStorage is available and games take advantage of it.
With nothing really as there is no game yet. But I got your point.

And I am not so sure Nvme 4.0 drives as we know will match the PS5 speed.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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With what exactly? DirectStorage is not available yet.

I was pointing out that the fast storage in the new consoles absolutely make a difference when comparing it to a PC title. The poster I was responding to was trying to pass off the new consoles as having no advantage over current PCs when it comes to raw speed, when they totally do.

I'm sure PC will once again match or surpass consoles once DirectStorage is available and games take advantage of it.
The thing is, there's not really any information on actual i/o speeds on some of the games on console. We don't know if they are using 1gbps, 500mbps, 69tbps, etc. This is why the unreal engine 5 demo arriving on PC this year, will really give us the truth about everything we want to know. We can test any resolution, texture size/quality, effects, etc. And that can be directly compared or benchmarked to ps5. Which can also put to rest whether or not the demo ran on the Epic engineers laptop with a basic SSD.
 

KyoZz

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this is silly. Do you consider Demon Souls to be 60 fps? It's also 1440p 60 fps.
I'm sorry but... whut ? There is no "consideration", a game run at a certain frame and that's it.
Listen I'm just stating that IMO, this R&C should run at 60 frames per seconds nothing more, nothing less since I don't think it's as impressive as it could be.
That's it. I'm not saying it's ugly or anything.
 

SlimySnake

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I'm sorry but... whut ? There is no "consideration", a game run at a certain frame and that's it.
Listen I'm just stating that IMO, this R&C should run at 60 frames per seconds nothing more, nothing less since I don't think it's as impressive as it could be.
That's it. I'm not saying it's ugly or anything.
And I am telling you that Ratchet does and will run at 60 fps. Why is this so hard to understand?

Do you consider returnal a 60 fps game? It is running at 1440p 60 fps with some aspects rendering at an internal resolution of 1080p.
 

Zoro7

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Then you also should really use a game that is not running in "BC mode" on PC and actually takes advantage of the "new hardware" on pc.
Wow so your point is use something that isn’t available yet. Good one.
 
Sep 25, 2016
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Playstation only gamers really are the worst.

The next gen feature is SSD standard instead of HDD

The ssd special sauce meme is just sad.
Get a grip. I have a 3.5GB/sec SSD on my PC and NO GAME has almost instant loading from a menu never mind instant loading of next gen assets and environments like this demo. It’s truly a paradigm shift for game development and design.

The people playing it down are far worse to me.
 
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Dodkrake

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I was just joking man. You're right. I was wrong, here's your power of the SSD mate


/end of useless "my thingy is better" posts

SSD's do make a difference but for the "difference" they make I doubt theres much difference between a regular 1gb/s ssd than to a 5-8gb/s ssd in terms of world building, assets loading, etc.

Time will tell but using Ratchet n Clank for this ain't it chief. You can do that on a PC aswell and saying you can't because the game doesnt exist on PC is not an excuse.

Ahm... Are you aware that the Xbox and PS versions are running in back compat with the previous gen consoles, and thus not exploring the SSD?

Also, PC games are created with HDD's in mind, so they don't saturate any SSD bandwith. I have my games installed in an NVME SSD capable of 3.5GB/s read and the load times for games are not substantially changed.
 

Starfield

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Ahm... Are you aware that the Xbox and PS versions are running in back compat with the previous gen consoles, and thus not exploring the SSD?

Also, PC games are created with HDD's in mind, so they don't saturate any SSD bandwith. I have my games installed in an NVME SSD capable of 3.5GB/s read and the load times for games are not substantially changed.
Star Citizen created with HDD in mind confirmed
 
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KyoZz

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And I am telling you that Ratchet does and will run at 60 fps. Why is this so hard to understand?
Ok I made it even clearer: R&C should run at 60FPS WITH ray tracing on. The game is not THAT impressive.
I don't care about a 60FPS 1440p no RT mode. If I buy a new gen console, it's to be amazed and I really find this absurd that we already need to make compromise like this in the first year of the console(s)

Do you consider returnal a 60 fps game? It is running at 1440p 60 fps with some aspects rendering at an internal resolution of 1080p.
Again, what are those consideration your talking about ?? If a game is 60 FPS, it IS 60 FPS no matter what you 'consider'... Resolution ≠ framerate
Idk maybe I don't understand something since English isn't my main language.
 
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SlimySnake

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Ok I made it even clearer: R&C should run at 60FPS WITH ray tracing on. The game is not THAT impressive.
I don't care about a 60FPS 1440p no RT mode.
it seems you misread my original post. Miles had TWO 60 fps modes. One at 4k without ray tracing. The other 1440p 60 fps WITH ray tracing.

The game will have a 60 fps mode. They confirmed it last year.

Miles had a 4k 60 fps mode without ray tracing and a 1440p 60 fps mode with ray tracing.

Expect Ratchet to have a similar 60 fps mode at 1440p.
 

rodrigolfp

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Ok I made it even clearer: R&C should run at 60FPS WITH ray tracing on. The game is not THAT impressive.
I don't care about a 60FPS 1440p no RT mode. If I buy a new gen console, it's to be amazed and I really find this absurd that we already need to make compromise like this in the first year of the console(s)


Again, what are those consideration your talking about ?? If a game is 60 FPS, it IS 60 FPS no matter what you 'consider'... Resolution ≠ framerate
Idk maybe I don't understand something since English isn't my main language.
But the number of polygons are more important than frame rate/input lag, resolution, RT effects. Next gen = more polygons and SSD speed. /s
 

Dodkrake

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Star Citizen created with HDD in mind confirmed

Moving the goalpost already?

Cyberpunk was created with HDD's in mind for both PC and Last-gen consoles. Sticking an SSD doesn't magically make things WAY faster because the engine itself is limited. Once the next-gen patches are released and if the appropriate coding is reviewred, you should see a substantial improvement in load times (to single digits, I suspect) on both PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. That's all.

Also, this is a non-argument, there's no discussion. Your screenshots just show how ignorant you are and how big of a fool you're making of yourself.
 
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rodrigolfp

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Moving the goalpost already?

Cyberpunk was created with HDD's in mind for both PC and Last-gen consoles. Sticking an SSD doesn't magically make things WAY faster because the engine itself is limited. Once the next-gen patches are released and if the appropriate coding is reviewred, you should see a substantial improvement in load times (to single digits, I suspect) on both PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. That's all.

Also, this is a non-argument, there's no discussion. Your screenshots just show how ignorant you are and how big of a fool you're making of yourself.
On PC there is a setting to toggle for HDD or SSD. I can get 5 seconds of loading on a SATA SSD with CP2077. Something magic is happening? Or CDPR kept SDD in mind?
 
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Dodkrake

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On PC there is a setting to toggle for HDD or SSD. I can get 5 seconds of loading with CP2077. Something magic is happening? Or CDPR kept SDD in mind?

Trusting the option is there (I've played about 5 or 6h then uninstalled, my PC can't really cope with the game graphically) then they did. Obviously, they couldn't do this with the PS4 / Xbox One, because those consoles are IO limited, and the game runs in back compat on new consoles, so they are just capped at whatever value the engine can handle on last gen consoles.
 

KyoZz

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Oh i'm sure you will :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Tell me what the Lombax did to hurt you?
Maybe I shouldn't say what I think just to make you feel more comfortable? The only R&C I tried is the one from 2016 and I don't know, It didn't work for me. It has been gathering dust ever since.
Thankfully here I only speak about the graphical aspect, and I'm sure gameplay wise the fan are gonna be pleased.
Insomniac is just hit or miss with me: really liked Spider-Man (it's the game that made me buy a PS4 special edition), Sunset Overdrive and even Edge of Nowhere. On the other hand I never liked Resistance and R&C.
 

abel empire

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Mark Cerny - "We didn't do all this just for loading times, it's much more than that"
Devs - "It completely changes our approach to game development, and what kind of games we can create."
EPIC - "Well look at this U5 demo. We expect devs to come up with ideas we never even though of, this is just the beginning."
Forum Dwellers - "So what, loading screens go faster, big deal. It's the same games I've been playing on PC since windows XP"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ignorance is bliss, its excruciating trying to explain to people why ssds and nextgen io tech is revolutionary. But at the same time its quite funny reading the ridiculous cave man ignorance they write in forums. These people are actually convinced in their ridiculous fud.
 

abel empire

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There is nothing to patch yet, PC is limited by legacy software overhead and loading of assets. That is why DirectStorage is such a big thing for PC. Once that is out and games are patched to take advantage of that, then I fully expect a PC with high end SSDs to more or less match the PS5.

The problem for PC at the moment is a software one, not a hardware one.
It is a hardware one pcs dont have gpu decompression until rtx cards came out all decompression was done on the cpu. So direct storage is simply an api that instructs the storage hdd or ssd to directly stream data to the gpu vram bypassing system ram but without deficated decompression hardware the data would have to be decompressed on the cpu then sent back to system ram then to video ram alot of latencies and thats not even all theres this shit to consider

Sony didnt just plug a ssd and plug some software api they added alot of silicon to remove the latencies the goal was to have no latencies not just having high bandwidth. This is what separates ps5 from other solutions well see how rtx decompression and direct storage fair out in the future.
 

Balducci30

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It looks amazing - but I dunno if I’d say it looks as good as that UE5 demo. It’d be crazy to have metro exodus RT features in combo with this. I’m sure we’ll hit close to that in the next few years tho., I feel like graphics can still be quite a bit better than ratchet and probably Naughty Dog will show something that destroys this

EDIT: I also dont think we need 60FPS for everything and hopefully that’ll allow people to push things
 
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Rea

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What about explosion effects, i have never seen such a pretty explosion in any game.
 

rodrigolfp

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It looks amazing - but I dunno if I’d say it looks as good as that UE5 demo. It’d be crazy to have metro exodus RT features in combo with this. I’m sure we’ll hit close to that in the next few years tho., I feel like graphics can still be quite a bit better than ratchet and probably Naughty Dog will show something that destroys this

EDIT: I also dont think we need 60FPS for everything and hopefully that’ll allow people to push things
Nah. It doesn't need RTGI to be current gen. But need more polygons... /s
 
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Kuranghi

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Tbh, while rewatching it at full speed I did notice one example of low polygon count + no tesselation on a rounded object, its in very first shot of ratchet, when he's lying on the ground, I challenge others to find it and post a screenshot of it!

There was also another really weird pop-in moment during the Rivet part where she's trying to find the slug-bug thingie, I didn't see anyone talking about it yet, it was possibly more a culling issue than LoD though.

None of these things matter though because its an amazing achievement outside of those tiny niggles, which are present in everything.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman

Appreciate the work in putting the thread on. Too bad the screenshots are fairly low res, but maybe Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem can help :)

Here ;) 4K screenshots after downloading the WebM file from YouTube then PNG screenshots.











Cutscene



Gameplay, yes, you play what you see in cutscenes, same quality



Gameplay as well, with all the crazy traffic, sticking it to CP2077 2D traffic



They've made Ratchet pretty hairy, an upgrade I think since last time. Now he looks more "male" and mature to distinguish him from Rivet





Mostly gameplay here:

Look at that detailed raytracing on the side with the bulb reflections!



This lightening shot is crazy and interactive with the surroundings, physics-based




















All previous screenshots, plenty:

 
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Rikkori

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It's funny when people compare the graphics between open world games and (semi-)linear games. Almost as funny as when they used to do open world performance vs Doom performance. Sure, why not compare birds and carrots, they're all made of atoms in the end anyway. 🤡 :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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