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[Buggy Loop]

Oh and the Matrix Awakens demo on consoles is RT Lumen




Runs even on Series S

 

[Turk1993]

your trolling becuase your not explaining anything other than reposting your gif collection... time and time again.. u just look immature... your interested in arguing about semantics rather than the actual topic... in your reasoning games are also cgi just as pre renderd films because they are computer graphics and all phones are personal computers because they are computers!... the argument is about hardware rt vs hybrid rt/ traditional raster techniques so get with it and stop slapping out gifs becuase u cant explain yourself

seems this thread is turning to a meme! thread from all this nonesense gifs u keep posting...

Everybody: This is a car
Kingyala: no its not its a hybride
Everybody: but its still a car
Kingyala: no its a hybride its different

 

[Turk1993]

Oh and the Matrix Awakens demo on consoles is RT Lumen




Runs even on Series S

Remove that RT next to the Lumen

 

[kingyala]

Everybody: This is a car
Kingyala: no its not its a hybride
Everybody: but its still a car
Kingyala: no its a hybride its different

yeah keep posting jokes... mr joker hahahaha everybody laugh .. hahahahaa

 

[Turk1993]

yeah keep posting jokes... mr joker hahahaha everybody laugh .. hahahahaa

You put yourself in that position, if you read your own posts you will see how delusional you sound. I showed you everything and yet you kept going with the same bullshit. You just can't accept that you was wrong and started to flip flopping.

 

[kingyala]

Oh and the Matrix Awakens demo on consoles is RT Lumen




Runs even on Series S

exctly runs even on series s because its not hardware raytracing or triangoe raytracing, lumen is hybrid it doesnt actually trace triangles... the problem isnt raytracing its the techniques used hardware rt is expensive and takes alot of resources.. this is the argument

 

[kingyala]

You put yourself in that position, if you read your own posts you will see how delusional you sound. I showed you everything and yet you kept going with the same bullshit. You just can't accept that you was wrong and started to flip flopping.

all you showed is gifs and u keep reposting what ive posted you havent explained or come out with any clear arguments..

 

[8BiTw0LF]

fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking

 

[Turk1993]

exctly runs even on series s because its not hardware raytracing or triangoe raytracing, lumen is hybrid it doesnt actually trace triangles... the problem isnt raytracing its the techniques used hardware rt is expensive and takes alot of resources.. this is the argument

And thats why Nvidia is better because they have dedicated hardware for RT. But funny enough you are hating them which is ironic.

all you showed is gifs and u keep reposting what ive posted you havent explained or come out with any clear arguments..

Sorry its not my problem if you can't read. Everybody in this thread understands what it is except you.

 

[Buggy Loop]

exctly runs even on series s because its not hardware raytracing or triangoe raytracing, lumen is hybrid it doesnt actually trace triangles... the problem isnt raytracing its the techniques used hardware rt is expensive and takes alot of resources.. this is the argument

Holy fuck you're one dense motherfucker.

IT'S
HARDWARE
ACCELERATED
LUMEN

THERE'S TWO OPTIONS, SOFTWARE, HARDWARE. READ THE FUCKING UNREAL 5 DOCS

Hardware Ray Tracing​

Hardware Ray Tracing supports a larger range of geometry types than Software Ray Tracing, in particular it supports tracing against skinned meshes. Hardware Ray Tracing also scales up better to higher qualities — it intersects against the actual triangles and has the option to evaluate lighting at the ray hit instead of the lower quality Surface Cache.

You're here since Feb 2023 in the new wave? Fuck off.

 

[Turk1993]

Holy fuck you're one dense motherfucker.

IT'S
HARDWARE
ACCELERATED
LUMEN

THERE'S TWO OPTIONS, SOFTWARE, HARDWARE. READ THE FUCKING UNREAL 5 DOCS

Hardware Ray Tracing​

Hardware Ray Tracing supports a larger range of geometry types than Software Ray Tracing, in particular it supports tracing against skinned meshes. Hardware Ray Tracing also scales up better to higher qualities — it intersects against the actual triangles and has the option to evaluate lighting at the ray hit instead of the lower quality Surface Cache.

You're here since Feb 2023 in the new wave? Fuck off.

Maybe his monitor is filtering out the word "Hardware" for him, maybe thats the reason he can't read it.

 

[Loomy]

You're here since Feb 2023 in the new wave? Fuck off.

Hey man, we're not all this fucking dumb lol

 

[Buggy Loop]

Maybe his monitor is filtering out the word "Hardware" for him, maybe thats the reason he can't read it.

Maybe even Nvidia doesn't know



Kingyala should email them, "it'S nOt HaRwARe RaY trAcING!"

 

[hinch7]

RT is still super taxing even on the best and top of the line GPU's.

I feel we're a gen away from having proper hardware equipped to handle RT for high res and HFR. Blackwell from Nvidia, specifically will be a giant leap in that area.

 

[Rea]

 

[Gamerguy84]

The increase in frame rate is more noticeable than RT. It's not garbage though it's quite beautiful to stop and look at.

It's not meaningless it's too expensive for the hardware. It takes too much of our hardware resources. We have been reading about RT for so long it's the holy grail.

 

[Nocturno999]

It's been more than 3 years but people here still believe that it eventually will change everything.

 

[SlimySnake]

While I agree that a lot of the modern RT implementations are trash, I dont think we should use these examples to write them off. Especially From's fucking output. From is known for their awful graphical mastery or lack thereof.

I think the two sides in this thread need to meet in the middle. RT is very expensive and if standard rasterization lighting and reflection techniques can do the trick for half the performance, great. If not then sure use RT.

Secondly, for open world games where devs cant place handcrafted reflections everywhere, yes, Im ok with RT.

And lastly, Software GI or Dynamic GI was something UE4 supported before last gen started. Hell, Fable devs even had some demos on xbox one before they were shutdown. That doesnt need RT. Call it software ray tracing or whatever the hell you want, but in the Matrix, its like 40% less GPU intensive and the results are very close to hardware Lumens. Lets use dynamic GI for now and maybe next gen, we can switch to hardware acceleration.

Here are some screenshots I took that show drastic differences, not so drastic difference, and games where you can get great looking reflections without RT. It's a balancing act. I dont want 50% of the GPU going into lighting the scene when we can have devs use it on character models, destruction, fluid simulations etc.

 

[thatJohann]

We just need new consoles. The PS5 and XSX are very underpowered already.

 

[kingyala]

And thats why Nvidia is better because they have dedicated hardware for RT. But funny enough you are hating them which is ironic.


Sorry its not my problem if you can't read. Everybody in this thread understands what it is except you.

it seems you dont understand how computers work having dedicated rt hardware doesnt make raytracing cheaper, lumen was designed for software because it was much faster that way you can make it more accurate with hardware but that just makes it more expensive.

 

[kingyala]

And thats why Nvidia is better because they have dedicated hardware for RT. But funny enough you are hating them which is ironic.


Sorry its not my problem if you can't read. Everybody in this thread understands what it is except you.

and you are not everybody so speak for yourself and stop trying to find some mob to go along with u

 

[Pimpbaa]

It's been more than 3 years but people here still believe that it eventually will change everything.

Games on consoles yet to come will have the image completely rendered by ray tracing. It will change everything, it’s just going to take a while (and definitely not on current consoles or mid gen refreshes).

 

[kingyala]

Holy fuck you're one dense motherfucker.

IT'S
HARDWARE
ACCELERATED
LUMEN

THERE'S TWO OPTIONS, SOFTWARE, HARDWARE. READ THE FUCKING UNREAL 5 DOCS

Hardware Ray Tracing​

Hardware Ray Tracing supports a larger range of geometry types than Software Ray Tracing, in particular it supports tracing against skinned meshes. Hardware Ray Tracing also scales up better to higher qualities — it intersects against the actual triangles and has the option to evaluate lighting at the ray hit instead of the lower quality Surface Cache.

You're here since Feb 2023 in the new wave? Fuck off.

exactly and hardware accelerated lumen is more expensive its why they use software lumen on console and not hardware even though consoles are capable of hardware rt

Understanding the difference between Lumen and Ray Tracing​

Lumen is a hybrid tracing pipeline that uses Software Ray Tracing. It traces against the depth buffer first, which we call Screen Traces, then it traces against the distance field and applies lighting to ray hits with the Surface Cache. Lumen takes any given scene and renders a very low-resolution model of it. Light behavior in this low-res model is then recorded, and a rough lightmap is created. This lightmap is then used to trace the path taken by every ray in the scene. Then, the output lighting is upscaled and displayed as a cube map. The engine does all the heavy lifting, and Lumen does not affect the assets gathered in a scene.

Thus, it is an innovative solution to the highly intensive hardware-accelerated ray tracing method. Because the Lumen method uses upscaling, flickering may occur at high resolutions. Ray Tracing does not have this drawback, as it does not use upscaling. Lumen also provides Hardware Ray Tracing. It supports a range of geometry types by tracing against triangles and evaluating lighting where the rays hit. Hardware Ray Tracing is more accurate but more expensive.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Worth doing if you got the hardware, or else the performance tanks so much it's not worth it. Also, a lot of the RT effects seem skewed to water and reflection effects, so you got to love puddles.

 

[LaughingStock]

We just need new consoles. The PS5 and XSX are very underpowered already.

Consoles will always be cheap midrange PCs.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Go watch the time stamped digital foundry video for the matrix demo I included earlier.

You clearly don’t watch the information we include

Here, again

The Matrix Awakens is an unmissable next-gen showcase

After teasing us with a pre-load earlier in the week, The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 experience has finally unl…

www.eurogamer.net

Of course, Nanite is backed up by Lumen, Unreal Engine 5's exceptional real-time global illumination system, but The Matrix Awakens sees Lumen taken to the next level, with extra performance and fidelity in indirect and diffuse lighting delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles, which can also offer up ray-traced reflections and area light shadows. These systems are exceptionally heavy on performance, meaning that Epic leans in heavily on its TSR

Please leave this thread after. Huge derailment from you.

 

[Turk1993]

Go watch the time stamped digital foundry video for the matrix demo I included earlier.

You clearly don’t watch the information we include

Here, again

http://[URL]https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2021-the-matrix-ue5-demo-is-incredible

[/URL]



Please leave this thread after. Huge derailment from you.

Thats not clear enough
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles

 

[Elder Legend]

RT is still super taxing even on the best and top of the line GPU's.

I feel we're a gen away from having proper hardware equipped to handle RT for high res and HFR. Blackwell from Nvidia, specifically will be a giant leap in that area.

Is Blackwell the 5000 series? I heard rumors the 5000 series will be a MASSIVE leap.

 

[BearNecessity]

Its more important that resolution imo. We should go back to a 1080p base to support RT.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Ray tracing exist since forever (Hello 90s 3DSMAX), it's the not even "new" or a evolution, it was always there but we got only recently the necessary compute power to start rendering it in real time unlike movies.

Just deal with it, you can't stop it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[kingyala]

Go watch the time stamped digital foundry video for the matrix demo I included earlier.

You clearly don’t watch the information we include

Here, again

http://[URL]https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2021-the-matrix-ue5-demo-is-incredible

[/URL]



Please leave this thread after. Huge derailment from you.

raytraced reflections are done by hardware but the gi is still software also why the matrix demo is 30fps

 

[kingyala]

Thats not clear enough
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles
delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles

the reflections are handled by hardware, the lumen gi is still run on software

 

[kingyala]

While I agree that a lot of the modern RT implementations are trash, I dont think we should use these examples to write them off. Especially From's fucking output. From is known for their awful graphical mastery or lack thereof.

I think the two sides in this thread need to meet in the middle. RT is very expensive and if standard rasterization lighting and reflection techniques can do the trick for half the performance, great. If not then sure use RT.

Secondly, for open world games where devs cant place handcrafted reflections everywhere, yes, Im ok with RT.

And lastly, Software GI or Dynamic GI was something UE4 supported before last gen started. Hell, Fable devs even had some demos on xbox one before they were shutdown. That doesnt need RT. Call it software ray tracing or whatever the hell you want, but in the Matrix, its like 40% less GPU intensive and the results are very close to hardware Lumens. Lets use dynamic GI for now and maybe next gen, we can switch to hardware acceleration.

Here are some screenshots I took that show drastic differences, not so drastic difference, and games where you can get great looking reflections without RT. It's a balancing act. I dont want 50% of the GPU going into lighting the scene when we can have devs use it on character models, destruction, fluid simulations etc.

exactly using half the gpu resources to raytrace puddles is the worst decision you could ever do, those resources are better spent on physics, ai or game design elements that enhance the gameplay and balance the look of the game.. its always about what the artist intends to make and how believable it is... raytracing on its current stage is what nvidia physx or normal maps where during the ps3 360 days.. almost half of pc games had a nvidia physx fancy check box and consoles had over used normal maps or bump maps for no context at all as it was the greatest thing in realtime graphics at the time, Graphics are about how u use them... not just put there for the sake of it

 

[nightmare-slain]

Ray tracing is definitely the future but it's still very demanding. I don't think people realise how crazy it was when Nvidia released the first RTX cards 4-5 years ago. Real time raytracing wasn't really a thing. Even after these 4-5 years it's difficult to push raytracing.

Consoles are simply too weak to do anything significant. PC is where you will see a big difference. If you have the hardware to run it then yeah you're gonna turn it on because it really improves the game. But even then it just gives the image more depth and makes the lighting smoother.

I have a 4080 and use raytracing a lot. There are issues because in Hogwarts Legacy the game stutters like mad with it on but visually the game does look better.

Full path tracing is incredibly demanding. You can only play 10+ year old games with it and even then you need some of the best GPUs to run it. I was playing Portal 2 RTX which a game from 2011 and the original wasn't even demanding when it came out and I had to upgrade to a 4080 to play it lol.

 

[Crayon]

I only learned recently that hardware unboxed is the target of ire because they say rt is not that important.

 

[supernova8]

The dilemma with RT is that it makes stuff looks natural, thus some ignoramuses think it must suck because they "can't see it".

RT is the only way forward, there is no alternative. We'll have an adjustment period to make hardware and software catch up, but then it's gonna be all RT after that.

Yeah nobody can really deny the benefits of RT at face value, we're just at the half-way house stage where the performance hit is still a bit too large relative to the visual improvement, which itself is only because developers have become so good at "faking" it.

I'm waiting for us to get to the point where even low tier cards (bit of spaghetti soup, I'm thinking 50ti class cards but for a reasonable price) can do nice ray tracing at 1080p, high-ish settings and still be over 60fps.

 

[diffusionx]

We just need new consoles. The PS5 and XSX are very underpowered already.

what is the new console going to be when even the 4090 isn't close to good enough and costs 3x these consoles by itself

 

[sinnergy]

@op I think you need to do some research on what is needed to create near photo realistic graphics so that you understand rendering technology and video game art a bit more. Even for stylized approaches RT can help.

 

[Thebonehead]

Consoles will always be cheap midrange PCs.

Midrange pc now would be a 3080 / 6800xt.

The consoles are now two generations behind.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Ok So Elden ring RT update is out and you know what RT may be good but it is simply not meaningful in any game and I mean anygame including control. In a DF direct all the DF members themselves played the game on PS5 without raytracing accept Alex Battaglia. And you know what I just realized that if not for Dumb Demands of raytracing, the developers could have focused on optimizing video games for the three platforms, and we won't get this many broken game on every platform.

Major issues of All Platforms:

PS5: Weakest of three in IQ but you get the best performant version in terms of relative power and hardware but still gets the framedrops.

Xbox X: Nearly always looks better than PS5 output but always missing one or two critical things that just makes the release dead. RE4 -controller sucks, Callisto Protocol: Some fucking effect missing, Hogwarts Legacy - Framefacing issues clearly shows dev used most of their time optimization for their biggest player base

PC: Absolutely demolishes consoles in Image Quality and Performance but suffers severly from fucking stutters, and then you add the dumb RT and nearly every game stutters with RT on regardless of hardware. It's there in 4090 too, so fuck that.

And seriously so many fucking dumb modes on Consoles too.

Just make one 60 fps mode for console with FSR2 4K60 drs like look at RE4 it's just Mode Dumbness Galore on consoles and the 30 fps cinematic crowd can't even argue on that title, like it is 60 all time but never fucking hits it at two modes so it's all just big Dumbo dumba dumdum.

And then we fucking add RT mode and guess what all we needed was a bit better reflection and improved AO because as close to real light simulation RT produces the results matter nada when you are playing the game and are immersed in it. It does improve on things, things definitely look better, more realistic one would say but it only feels like slightly altered art direction.

DLSS2, FSR2 are the real deal and we need that incorporated in one mode that locks to 60 on all three fucking platforms and thats it. Ray tracing sucks and the addition and demand for it is hurting the game performance on launch on all platforms.

I guess you said the same about 3D graphics in the past…

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I think even cgi movies aren't fully raytraced, so that's wishful thinking. I get Op's point, ever since I got a high refresh HDR monitor I've turning RT off and don't miss it a bit. Everybody on consoles prefer performance modes, so it's a matter of time for devs to stop wasting time injecting stuff that no one uses and continue the evolution of graphics on the raster path. Because graphics evolution is just like natural evolution, having higher precision doesn't make you the fittest nor the selected one automatically, if one of the console manufacturers sacrifices raster for RT for next generation, it's gonna get trumped by the other one, mark my words.

This take is ridiculous. RT is the future period…Just because a person doesn’t care for it doesn’t mean it isn’t the future of graphics…

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

the thing is it didnt start recently raytracing techniques have existed for a long time, ps4 games like dreams and the tomorrow children use raytracing.. the issue is nvidia's propaganda pr campaign have pushed it to the naive pc masterace camp in order to push gpu sales.. and clueless people just jumped in and bought the gpu's only to play games with raytraced puddle reflections and tree trunk shadows!... in reality hybrid raytracing is just a gimmick and fully realtime raytracing is years away to be convincingly different from traditional raster.. you need a gpu far more powerful than a 4090 and alot of memory otherwise theres nothing new.

Really? This is inaccurate…

 

[GymWolf]

As it is now, it's not worth the performance hit, maybe in 10-20 years we are gonna have the hardware to run rtx that we can actually run without killing the performances.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

As it is now, it's not worth the performance hit, maybe in 10-20 years we are gonna have the hardware to run rtx that we can actually run without killing the performances.

There isn’t too much of a performance hit. Just play performance RT…

 

[GymWolf]

There isn’t too much of a performance hit. Just play performance RT…

I have a pc with a 4080 and it is still not worth the perf cost for me, i prefer to play re4 at 4k120 with maxed textures over some more detailed reflections that i'm barely gonna notice.

I'm always glad to trade rtx for better res, details and framerate.

 

[hinch7]

Is Blackwell the 5000 series? I heard rumors the 5000 series will be a MASSIVE leap.

Yeah its Nvidia's next GPU architecture. Ada Lovelace (4000 series) is fairly similar to Ampere (3000) but on a significantly better node and a lot of cache.

Blackwell on the other hand is fairly different and should bring substantial IPC gains; outside having more cache, and performance uptick due to better power efficiency and clocks. Still 1.5 years away so.. might have to be patient lol.

 

[NightmareFarm]

There is hardly any noticeable different outside of reflections. Not worth halving the frame rate.

 

[bbeach123]

Dont care about RT shadow ,RT AO , RT reflection , but RT global illumination is pretty nice not gonna lie .

Though tbh if the dev really try they can get baked lighting 90% as good in most scene with double the framerate compared to RT .

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I have a pc with a 4080 and it is still not worth the perf cost for me, i prefer to play re4 at 4k120 with maxed textures over some more detailed reflections that i'm barely gonna notice.

I'm always glad to trade rtx for better res, details and framerate.

RT isn’t just “reflections”, it’s things like RTAO too which makes a big difference. Casuals believe RT is just “reflections”. Its the way light properly bounces on PBR materials and how shadows properly work, giving games a more grounded and CGI or film like look…

 

[Codeblew]

Imagine if that was the attitude taken by developers in the 90s when they moved to 3d. It looked colossally shit but we've persevered and things look great now.
It's not a new phenomenon.

Ray tracing has been around before the 90's and before 3d gfx cards.