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Reality setting in: Most Americans now don't want Medicare For All.

desertdroog

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Aug 12, 2008
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Hey, did the federal government fix the VA Hospitals and the care that our Veterans get?

Because that is what beauracracy looks like when applied to healthcare.

And it is a damn shame we treat our Veterans like that. Congress should be forced to use the VA while serving their office, then maybe it will get fixed.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Like I said, I am not against the idea of some national health system — but where I see it exists it tends to not work as good as people intended.
Nobody ever said national healthcare is perfect. There are pros and cons to universal healthcare vs. the US way.

The key focus of universal healthcare is to offer access to everyone so all citizens get a fair shake at doctors and hospitals.

Universal healthcare systems can also be based on urgency (like Canada). Someone needing a dermatologist to take a look at his athlete's foot is low priority and will probably wait two months. Someone who's GP thinks he or she has skin cancer and needs emergency diagnosis gets bumped up so a specialist or hospital can do tests, xrays or biopsies.

There's also lots of walk in clinics anyone can do first come first serve. And places like blood test clinics are walk in too (or by appointment). Most tests are covered again..... although some obscure blood tests are not some reason.

It's not a perfect system as there can be times even serious issues results in waiting. But in urgent times where access is unavailable, Canadian governments will pay US hospitals to take in patients. Costs covered.
 
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Jun 26, 2018
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That isn't the same as getting cared for immediately after a stroke, heart attack or surviving cancer. If you think you're going to get just as good of treatment in Cuba or Czech as in the US, you're crazy. If you get sick, the best place to do that is in the US.
 
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1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
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munich
That's fine. You can keep your crappy level of care for the comforting thought that you "don't have to pay anything." I would and do rather pay for a level of quality that allows me to see a specialist instantly, not have to ration my medicine and know I am seeing some of the best educated doctors in the world. And thanks to those nasty right wingers, I still get to choose my doctor. And the point we are all making is that the level of your quality of care is going to CONTINUE to suffer. And it's going to cost people their lives.

https://fee.org/articles/if-american-healthcare-kills-european-healthcare-kills-more/

If America had the 30-day stroke-mortality rate of the UK, for example, we could expect about an additional 38,000 deaths a year. For Canada, that number would be around 43,500. And this only accounts for mortality within a month of having a stroke, which in turn accounts for only 10% of stroke-related deaths.

This is further reflected in overall stroke-mortality statistics: for every 1,000 strokes that occur annually in the US, approximately 170 stroke-related deaths occur. The latter number is 250 and 280 for the UK and Canada respectively. Considering that approximately 795,000 strokes occur each year in the US, the discrepancy in stroke-related mortality is humongous.

If we weight the CDC-quoted survival rates for different forms of cancer in accordance with their contribution to overall cancer mortality, we find that, with the UK’s survival rates, there would be about 72,000 additional deaths annually in the United States. There would similarly be about 21,000, 23,000, and 31,000 additional deaths per year with Canadian, French, and German survival rates.
Quoting a right wing, libertarian think tank is not a good idea when you are talking about universal healthcare.
They cherry picked two areas where the US healthcare system performs well, while ignoring everything. I would call it confirmation bias that would imply, at least a bit, that it's not a deliberate attempt to misinform.

Anyway the main take away should be that your claim that the US healthcare system produces better results than other systems is wrong.
Several comprehensive comparisons between systems of developed nations consistently rank the US system towards the bottom of the chart.
https://www.ajmc.com/contributor/julie-potyraj/2016/02/the-quality-of-us-healthcare-compared-with-the-world

And in case it wasn't obvious yet: Unlike the libertarian think tank, these comparisons didn't just cherrypick certain metrics which supported their ideological agenda, but instead looked at everything and scored the overall quality of the systems.
 
Jun 26, 2018
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They cherry picked two areas where the US healthcare system performs well, while ignoring everything.
Wrong. The US consistently one of the best countries with cancer, stroke and heart attack survival rates in the world. We also have some of the lowest waiting times for doctors and specialists. We have some of the best researchers and doctors in the world. We do not want socialized medicine to ruin that. Again, if you think you are going to get better care in China, which according to that list you would, you're nuts.

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/practice-management/news/in-the-journals/{f958e84b-6d0e-48cd-8f46-05911f4d31ec}/us-cancer-survival-rates-remain-among-highest-in-world

Five-year survival for the most common 18 cancers remained highest globally for the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, followed by Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, according to data through 2014 from CONCORD-3.

For women diagnosed with breast cancer between 2010 and 2014, 5-year survival rates reached 89.5% in Australia and 90.2% in the United States, but generally varied worldwide and remained low in some countries, such as at 66.1% in India.
 
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1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
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munich
Wrong. The US consistently one of the best countries with cancer, stroke and heart attack survival rates in the world. We also have some of the lowest waiting times for doctors and specialists. We have some of the best researchers and doctors in the world. We do not want socialized medicine to ruin that. Again, if you think you are going to get better care in China, which according to that list you would, you're nuts.

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/practice-management/news/in-the-journals/{f958e84b-6d0e-48cd-8f46-05911f4d31ec}/us-cancer-survival-rates-remain-among-highest-in-world

Five-year survival for the most common 18 cancers remained highest globally for the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, followed by Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, according to data through 2014 from CONCORD-3.

For women diagnosed with breast cancer between 2010 and 2014, 5-year survival rates reached 89.5% in Australia and 90.2% in the United States, but generally varied worldwide and remained low in some countries, such as at 66.1% in India.
I don't get your approach here. In your previous post you cited a source cherrypicking metrics where the US fared well, while ignoring others and now you are just repeating the same thing but use a different source.

Cherrypicking like that is dishonest and the only reason you are doing it is because if you would use comprehensive comparisons looking at every aspect of a healthcare system, the result would be that US doesn't compare favorably to the universal healthcare systems in most developed nations.

I know that this myth of superior healthcare quality in the US is often propagated in US media(right wing media) but its simply not true and hasn't been backed up by any comprehensive study. At least not that I am aware of and I think the usual suspects in US media would shout it from the rooftops if this kind of evidence was available.
 

Ke0

Member
Aug 10, 2012
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You also have long lines for standard procedures. No thanks.
You guys have long lines in America too lol, not sure why the "wait" argument gets invoked

Except when you figure that the US has lower mortality rates for stroke, heart attack and cancer.
And you have a vastly higher infant AND maternal morality rate than any other developed country. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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Assuming you can afford it.

Not everyone can.

But I totally get it though. The US is a country of every man for himself. If that means great gaps between rich and poor, mansions on one side of town and ghettos in the other, and some people have money to get great healthcare, while someone who is broke with no good employee benefits hasn't been able to afford important medical care throughout his entire life, that's the American Way.
Yeah let's just pretend that low income health care plans, Medicaid and government support doesn't exist.🙄

It's every man for himself
 
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Jun 26, 2018
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I don't get your approach here. In your previous post you cited a source cherrypicking metrics where the US fared well, while ignoring others and now you are just repeating the same thing but use a different source.
Because those statistics tell the story about the type of care you're going to receive in the first 30 days after a stroke, heart attack or cancer diagnosis. And common sense tells me that if I am better off being in the US when experiencing those conditions, that the level and quality of care is better than countries who have lower mortality rates in that crucial time period. That's not cherry picking, that's just being objective. Quite frankly I don't care if other systems cover more while costing individuals less. I want the best treatment I can possibly have. Immediately.
 
Jun 26, 2018
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You guys have long lines in America too lol, not sure why the "wait" argument gets invoked
No, we do not. I can see a doctor today if I wanted. Same thing with a specialist. I've already posted articles from countries like Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc. where wait times extend into the months.

And you have a vastly higher infant AND maternal morality rate than any other developed country.
That's an unfortunate statistic. In Milwaukee, we seem to have a very high number of co-sleeping infant deaths. It's sad. Despite the offers for free cribs, pack and plays, etc. people don't feel the need to use them. But then you realize that the US is one of if not the best country in the world when battling childhood cancer. And you realize that the infants are healthy when they leave the hospital. So your commentary is more on the level of parenting, not healthcare.

https://www.acco.org/global-childhood-cancer-statistics/
 

Super Mario

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Nov 12, 2016
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The only people who really want socialized medicine are the poor that wouldn't pay for it either way and people who are educated solely on bullet points. All you have to say is the US spends more on health care than anyone else in the world, and then anything you say to follow that, is law.

This isn't something we needed 40 years ago, so why do we need it now? The answer is corruption. Government has stifled this sector. Many politicians are taking payments to keep the gravy train rolling. Therefore, costs have skyrocketed. A true free market is the answer. One where you can actually compare costs and have choice. One that doesn't regulate competition out of existence.

A hint of free market has already helped me. I need Epipens for a bee allergy. Epinephrine is an extremely cheap drug, but somehow a method for the consumer ballooned to $700. Apparently, I had two options to afford this: 1.) Pay for it. 2.) Not pay for it, and cry for help for us to "get with the times like the rest of the world" and have everyone else pay for it. Magically, the Trump admin found a third option. They approved a bunch of generics that previously were in limbo by the previous admins. I was able to buy an equivalent for $60 AND drumroll....... no one else paid a dime for my prescription. Tell me again how the best method is to split up that $700 payment and why Mylan wouldn't continue to raise prices?
 

royox

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Just remembered this thread. I'm from one European country with obviously Social Care. Last week I had a car accident going home from work (nothing important, got hit from behind).

The cops arrived fair quick and asked me if I was ok. I told them I'm fine but I feel my neck was a bit numb and feeling it hotter and hotter by moments. They called an ambulance for me and they brought me to the nearest hospital. In less than a 30 minutes queue the doctor was examining me, he felt an inflamation in my neck (they call it the "slash effect") and wanted to take a look on my neck using X-rays. 10 minutes later I got X-ray'd. My neck was just fucked up at muscular level and nothing else was out of place. He gave me some pills for the pain and to lower the inflamation and got 3 days off-work to recover myself.

Total paid that day: 0€
(Edit: had a mind blown when a friend told me you have to pay for an ambulance in the US lol)

Social care or "medi care" works. Of course not everywhere will have the same quality but you should stop spreading the believe of "I cant visit a speciallist the same day" or "you will die waiting".

I have more stories :)
 
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Gashtronomy

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Apr 19, 2019
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Yeah, this part of America genuinely confuses me. Somehow the country have been brainwashed into thinking socialised medicine is for socialist scum bags.

Hey America, do you want free healthcare? NO, FUCK OFF YOU COMMY PRICK. (had a genuine discussion with an American and he said free healthcare is for commies and socialist scum bags.)

Land of the free, doesn't have free healthcare :unsure:
 

merlinevo

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Apr 28, 2019
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Just remembered this thread. I'm from one European country with obviously Social Care. Last week I had a car accident going home from work (nothing important, got hit from behind).

The cops arrived fair quick and asked me if I was ok. I told them I'm fine but I feel my neck was a bit numb and feeling it hotter and hotter by moments. They called an ambulance for me and they brought me to the nearest hospital. In less than a 30 minutes queue the doctor was examining me, he felt an inflamation in my neck (they call it the "slash effect") and wanted to take a look on my neck using X-rays. 10 minutes later I got X-ray'd. My neck was just fucked up at muscular level and nothing else was out of place. He gave me some pills for the pain and to lower the inflamation and got 3 days off-work to recover myself.

Total paid that day: 0€
(Edit: had a mind blown when a friend told me you have to pay for an ambulance in the US lol)

Social care or "medi care" works. Of course not everywhere will have the same quality but you should stop spreading the believe of "I cant visit a speciallist the same day" or "you will die waiting".

I have more stories :)
As an outsider, you probably only know American healthcare from liberal news source. Your information is either very wrong or entirely nonsense. Fact of the matter is, there is nothing fundamentally broken about our health care system outside of a few very minor sick and lazy people demanding better service. We have a system of healthcare that was designed to help those who want to help themselves. It was never intended to help lazy people, people who weight 300 pounds and need medication for the rest of their lives, and forcing the young pay for the old.

For the wealthy, our system of healthcare is the best in the world, with state of the art technology and research. How do you explain Magic Johnson, someone with HIV, still living and healthy to this day. For the poor, they get free healthcare paid for by tax payers. The only people who don't have healthcare are young healthy adults who feel that they don't need it. It is estimated that only ~28million people out of ~300million people don't have healthcare in the US, a large portion of that are most likely young and healthy adults.

Obama tried to pull a scam and forced those individuals to pay into the system with obamacare of they get penalize. Trump removed that ridiculous scam called the individual mandate.

Why do the democrats constantly make healthcare such a big deal? Because they need those young and healthy people who rarely uses the healthcare system to pay for the cost of the older and sicker people who need it and cost the most. Every employer offer some form of healthcare benefit, but it is up to the individual if they want to pay ~30percent of their salary for it. Most young people don't buy it, they rather keep their pay then get payroll deducted for something they rarely use.
 

royox

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As an outsider, you probably only know American healthcare from liberal news source. Your information is either very wrong or entirely nonsense
What I know is that I will travel to the US next month and I have to pay for a travelling insurance just in case I hurt myself and I have to pay 10.000$ for an ambulance.

Is the "Breaking Bad" situation possilbe in the US? It's totally impossible where I live, you get free treatment. Of course here we also have the choice to pay and go 100% private

I dont watch american news or your political stuff but as the user above said when you talk with americans you totally sound like brainwashed people against something that's common sense for most europeans.

Pd: healthcare is much less than 30% of your salary lol. My taxes now are 15% and a % of those taxes go for healthcare. Wtf where did you take that 30% from lol
 
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oagboghi2

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Yeah, this part of America genuinely confuses me. Somehow the country have been brainwashed into thinking socialised medicine is for socialist scum bags.

Hey America, do you want free healthcare? NO, FUCK OFF YOU COMMY PRICK. (had a genuine discussion with an American and he said free healthcare is for commies and socialist scum bags.)

Land of the free, doesn't have free healthcare :unsure:
Your healthcare isn't free.


What I know is that I will travel to the US next month and I have to pay for a travelling insurance just in case I hurt myself and I have to pay 10.000$ for an ambulance.

Is the "Breaking Bad" situation possilbe in the US? It's totally impossible where I live, you get free treatment. Of course here we also have the choice to pay and go 100% private

I dont watch american news or your political stuff but as the user above said when you talk with americans you totally sound like brainwashed people against something that's common sense for most europeans.
If I traveled to a European country, I as well would have to be prepared to pay for any potential medical expenses, because again your healthcare isn't free.
 
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royox

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If I traveled to a European country, I as well would have to be prepared to pay for any potential medical expenses, because again your healthcare isn't free.
You will pay for the treatment but not financial threathening, also you won't pay for the ambulance.


Your healthcare isn't free.
It isn't, we pay it with our taxes. But again when I break my arm I don't have to pay 30.000€ or 1.000.000 for a full cancer treatment.

Young and healthy adults also have accidents or get ill. The taxes is a little fee to feel safe, feel that your life won't be destroyed from one day to the other because you broke your limb. You feel salfe because if you feel something weird in your breast you can go to the doctors and they will examine it with X-ray, ecography and NMR to discard a possible cancer.

I'm 32 years old, I broke my arm, one hand, 2 teeth, had a car accident, got big fevers, got problems on my feet that had to be fixed and 1000 other problems everybody can have and I feel safe because I will be cured every time I have a medical issue without ruining my life.

I don't know how you americans do it, coming to our countries and seeing our medical systems working should be like magic for you xD

edit: The taxes in my country now are 21% for almost everything you buy. From this 21% only 14% is healthcare :)
 
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dionysus

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What I know is that I will travel to the US next month and I have to pay for a travelling insurance just in case I hurt myself and I have to pay 10.000$ for an ambulance.

Is the "Breaking Bad" situation possilbe in the US? It's totally impossible where I live, you get free treatment. Of course here we also have the choice to pay and go 100% private

I dont watch american news or your political stuff but as the user above said when you talk with americans you totally sound like brainwashed people against something that's common sense for most europeans.

Pd: healthcare is much less than 30% of your salary lol. My taxes now are 15% and a % of those taxes go for healthcare. Wtf where did you take that 30% from lol
What is your vat tax?
 

#Phonepunk#

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Sep 4, 2018
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Is the "Breaking Bad" situation possilbe in the US? It's totally impossible where I live, you get free treatment. Of course here we also have the choice to pay and go 100% private

I dont watch american news or your political stuff but as the user above said when you talk with americans you totally sound like brainwashed people against something that's common sense for most europeans.
yes, i love having to pay $60 co pay every time i go to the hospital, then get a bill for lab work, then months later get another bill for $1900 for a test i already paid for. i really love shelling out so much money. it isn't that our politicians are corrupt and ignore the plight of us working people. no. it's that i am totally brainwashed and i love paying money endlessly to this shitty system. i really do love it. /s

get over yourself. yeah you are privileged enough to be born in a country with free health care. if i won the sperm lottery maybe i would be the one looking down on you.

also "Breaking Bad" situation (???) doesnt happen for non citizens. hospitals have to treat everyone. this is why illegals still get care. you might have to wait in line at the ER tho...
 

KINGMOKU

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May 16, 2005
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You also have long lines for standard procedures. No thanks.
This is the filthy little secret no one wants to talk about.

I injured my shoulder, and am now scheduled for surgery(bankart repair and maybe some more as he stated) and the turn around time from injury would have been under a week. I would have already had the surgery, but I like the surgeon, so I decided to wait until he got back from vacation. All this includes the xrays, MRI, and three consultations.

My Canadian friends were shocked at how fast its happening. They jokingly said 3 months for them.

The United States has amazing healthcare, if you can afford it. The best. The problem has been cost, period. These procedures should be standardized, and cost about the same as working on a car. The cost starts at college as well so the whole healthcare pricing system needs fixing, from start, to finish.

It's a vicious cycle, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give up my health insurance for some government horsecrap sandwich.

I like being able to choose any doctor, and surgeon when it suits me.
 
Oct 2, 2017
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Health care costs should definitely be lowered somehow, even if it involves gov't intervention of some sort.

However, I will never feel bad about having to work to earn a good healthcare plan. We should definitely be taking care of children, disabled, and the elderly, but the rest of you all who want good healthcare need to earn it like everyone else does.
 
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oagboghi2

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You will pay for the treatment but not financial threathening, also you won't pay for the ambulance.
So I would pay. Which is my point. Whether or not it's "financial threatening" is up to me, not you

It isn't, we pay it with our taxes. But again when I break my arm I don't have to pay 30.000€ or 1.000.000 for a full cancer treatment.

Young and healthy adults also have accidents or get ill. The taxes is a little fee to feel safe, feel that your life won't be destroyed from one day to the other because you broke your limb. You feel salfe because if you feel something weird in your breast you can go to the doctors and they will examine it with X-ray, ecography and NMR to discard a possible cancer.

I'm 32 years old, I broke my arm, one hand, 2 teeth, had a car accident, got big fevers, got problems on my feet that had to be fixed and 1000 other problems everybody can have and I feel safe because I will be cured every time I have a medical issue without ruining my life.

I don't know how you americans do it, coming to our countries and seeing our medical systems working should be like magic for you xD

edit: The taxes in my country now are 21% for almost everything you buy. From this 21% only 14% is healthcare :)
Why would it be magic. Is it "magic" when I go to the DMV?

We have a myriad of government health services. Some are great, some are crap. None of them are free. This idea that "healthcare is free" is a lie at it's foundation.
 
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royox

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What is your vat tax?
21% in Spain (reached this numbers after the Economic Crysis). It's much lower for 1st need products like food, milk or baby stuff (diapers). Only 14% of this 21% goes to healthcare.
 

eclipze

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It’s really a simple delineation. Do you believe that your ability to receive healthcare should be based upon how much money you make and how wealthy you are?
 

Trojita

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“Every man for himself” is what separates a world power like the US from the dime a dozen countries that can not control their own fates and suffer through the common problems of instability every society has outside the US.
"Every man for himself" I think describes Somalia lol
 

TrainedRage

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That is the Republican leadership in a nutshell.


"Fuck you! I got mine!"
Whats wrong with working hard to pay for things you want? I should pay for lazy peoples health care because they choose not to work??? Nah im good. Fuck them (im poor) I got mine. and I make less than 30k a year. sooooooo.
 

Zaru

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Whats wrong with working hard to pay for things you want? I should pay for lazy peoples health care because they choose not to work??? Nah im good. Fuck them (im poor) I got mine. and I make less than 30k a year. sooooooo.
Since when does simply "working hard" guarantee wealth? According to your own statement you're either lazy or getting paid a pittance despite working hard.
 
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TrainedRage

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Since when does simply "working hard" guarantee wealth? According to your own statement you're either lazy or getting paid a pittance despite working hard.
Yep I work hard and make under $20 an hour.... Yet here I am fully covered with insurance because I know how to set aside a few bucks every week. Weird concept for some people.

….I'm not about to have my taxes and prices on everything go up because Andre over there refuses to find a job while he eats fast food every day and smokes about 2 packs of menthols. But oh no he now needs heart surgery and YOU get to pay for it!!! I mean you though not me, because I don't give a fuck about Andre.
 
Oct 12, 2005
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healthcare is much more complex than the few examples of anecdotal evidence in this thread
bottom line is nothing is free... medicare for all would just be another re-distribution of wealth
 

LegendOfKage

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Mar 6, 2018
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Here's the truth

The majority of Americans pretty much agree on all ideas. That is until the conversation changes to money.

Should we save the Spotted Owl? Cover everyone with their Health Care? Better education? Better roads? Free ice cream for all children?

Yes yes yes yes yes

Ok all we have to do is pay more money in taxes...

Nope nope nope nope nope
 
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Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
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yeah i'm not so sure medicare for all would work in the us, medicaid doctors are already in short supply and quitting in large numbers because the pay sucks and the hours are abysmal

good luck finding a psychologist on medicaid, good luck running through the hoops of primary care to a specialist
 
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Zaru

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Oct 2, 2012
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Yep I work hard and make under $20 an hour.... Yet here I am fully covered with insurance because I know how to set aside a few bucks every week. Weird concept for some people.
You're not "fully covered" with "a few bucks every week", don't lie to yourself
 
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Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
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It’s really a simple delineation. Do you believe that your ability to receive healthcare should be based upon how much money you make and how wealthy you are?
it's a good thing this isn't the case in america
 
Nov 23, 2010
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Just remembered this thread. I'm from one European country with obviously Social Care. Last week I had a car accident going home from work (nothing important, got hit from behind).

The cops arrived fair quick and asked me if I was ok. I told them I'm fine but I feel my neck was a bit numb and feeling it hotter and hotter by moments. They called an ambulance for me and they brought me to the nearest hospital. In less than a 30 minutes queue the doctor was examining me, he felt an inflamation in my neck (they call it the "slash effect") and wanted to take a look on my neck using X-rays. 10 minutes later I got X-ray'd. My neck was just fucked up at muscular level and nothing else was out of place. He gave me some pills for the pain and to lower the inflamation and got 3 days off-work to recover myself.

Total paid that day: 0€
(Edit: had a mind blown when a friend told me you have to pay for an ambulance in the US lol)

Social care or "medi care" works. Of course not everywhere will have the same quality but you should stop spreading the believe of "I cant visit a speciallist the same day" or "you will die waiting".

I have more stories :)
Thank you for the story. Folks ought to see things like this too since it's closer to America:



Places like the Kaiser Foundation, World Health Organization, and Commonwealth Fund can put out all the data and charts they want comparing countries. But more Americans have to hear from people who live in places that are the best of the best.
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
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Yep I work hard and make under $20 an hour.... Yet here I am fully covered with insurance because I know how to set aside a few bucks every week. Weird concept for some people.

….I'm not about to have my taxes and prices on everything go up because Andre over there refuses to find a job while he eats fast food every day and smokes about 2 packs of menthols. But oh no he now needs heart surgery and YOU get to pay for it!!! I mean you though not me, because I don't give a fuck about Andre.
Many people make much more than you do and still couldn't afford healthcare without their employer. If I had to get an MRI without insurance it would deal a significant blow to my savings, where as in Japan it'd be like buying a 5 pack Snickers bar or something.

I don't think you've been thinking about just how much health care costs you and your employer. You pay so much, but get so little.
 
Aug 29, 2018
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We have more illegals in the US than a lot of these 'paradises' have citizens.

I could perhaps be talked into a 'Medicare Buy-In' plan, but something tells me doctors accepting Medicare will drop like flies.
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
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We have more illegals in the US than a lot of these 'paradises' have citizens.

I could perhaps be talked into a 'Medicare Buy-In' plan, but something tells me doctors accepting Medicare will drop like flies.
If we had zero illegals we still wouldn't have it due to the root causes.
 
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TrainedRage

Member
Feb 3, 2018
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You're not "fully covered" with "a few bucks every week", don't lie to yourself
I am though. My pay is slightly deducted every paycheck for my insurance and medical. That way I only save and pay out of pocket for copay on meds and that's only like $30 every other month.
 

TrainedRage

Member
Feb 3, 2018
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Many people make much more than you do and still couldn't afford healthcare without their employer. If I had to get an MRI without insurance it would deal a significant blow to my savings, where as in Japan it'd be like buying a 5 pack Snickers bar or something.

I don't think you've been thinking about just how much health care costs you and your employer. You pay so much, but get so little.
I don't see your point... Do you know how much "free healthcare" would cost? My point is people have the money but don't give a fuck until they are in some health emergency and then whine about how they don't have insurance. Like... I'm sorry?!?!
 

Singular7

Member
Jan 9, 2018
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My health care in the US is incredible, and cheap, from a company plan.

My friend who lived in Japan for 8 years within their state run system, and recently moved back to the US, stated "Japanese health care is trying to kill you faster" (paraphrasing)

UNLIMITED demand, limited resources. Do the math.
 
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KINGMOKU

Member
May 16, 2005
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That is the Republican leadership in a nutshell.


"Fuck you! I got mine!"
I also take care of my own first, and that is difficult enough. I will never sabotage myself, and those around me to help strangers, point blank.

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of not just Americans, will agree with that sentiment.
 
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