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Reasons why the 2020 presidential election is deeply puzzling

ZippyTheOtter

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Aug 29, 2020
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A remarkable lack of interest in discussing any of the points raised in the article from the OP from our resident naysayers. No nits to pick with the info presented? Just - where's my court decision?
We've had these arguments in so many threads now
 

Kadayi

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Oct 10, 2012
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We've had these arguments in so many threads now

Denial isn't an argument, it isn't even a counterpoint.

You're right, me rephrasing judges/legal arguments over and over isn't substantive

LOL. You said it was all theatrics a page back, and yet when questioned you can't even explain why. I can't see what's changed in between then and now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Talk the Talk Walk the Walk. Wake the Fuck up SamuRee you've a Politics sub-forum to burn :messenger_sunglasses:
 
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ZippyTheOtter

Banned
Aug 29, 2020
906
881
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Denial isn't an argument, it isn't even a counterpoint.



LOL. You said it was all theatrics a page back, and yet when questioned you can't even explain why. I can't see what's changed in between then and now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Talk the Talk Walk the Walk. Wake the Fuck up SamuRee you've a Politics sub-forum to burn :messenger_sunglasses:
We're almost a month out, and you need it explained to you this is all political theatre? The numerous other threads haven't done that already?

But no, these same things put into a different ordered list will surely change the conversation.
 

Nymphae

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Jun 3, 2013
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We're almost a month out, and you need it explained to you this is all political theatre? The numerous other threads haven't done that already?

But no, these same things put into a different ordered list will surely change the conversation.

As the list in the OP says, there are still not compelling explanations for the items on the list.

Take a crack at it, you seem to be very familiar with threads that have deboonked everything. Instead of making pages worth of petty drive bys with no substance, how about you take a few minutes to quote from one of your precious threads, you are deflecting hard and it's laughable. Quote any single item from that list and then show me where it's been explained here.
 
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sw0mp_d0nk3y

Member
Jun 3, 2013
960
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Since you guys are begging for feedback I'll tackle a few of these. Most of the points are just unsubstantiated accusations with no evidence, but a few of them are just bad logic.

1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers.

(This accusation has come up and been refuted and dismissed in most of the cases)

2. Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio.

(When mail in votes were counted, they were mostly for Biden for the obvious reason that Trump told his supporters not to use them. Some older 2016 Trump voters used mail in anyway, and voted for Biden because they want someone to take the virus seriously).


5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election’

(There were better campaigns to educate voters on how to use mail in voting properly than at any time in the history of this country, resulting in less mistakes.)

7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes

(Let's pretend this guy's estimate is worth a shit and give the 20,000. There is no reason to assume that they would be voting in any different proportion than the rest of Georgia, which was just slightly above even on Biden's side, so probably negligible even with the slim win.)

8. ‘Over votes.’ Pennsylvania mailed out 1.8 million ballots, but 2.5 million ballots were returned. In 10 Pennsylvania counties, Biden secured more votes than there were registered Democratic voters. In Nevada, there are 77,982 more votes in the presidential election than total ballots cast; Biden’s current margin is 33,596. Ballots exceeded the number of residents by 2.5 times in some Georgia precincts

(These kind of claims have been shown to be bullshit over and over at this point, if there were 2.5 times more ballots than residents in a precinct, that would be easy to prove in court.)

Some of this stuff could obviously be concerning, but most of it appears to be conjecture with no evidence. On top of that, there is no reason to assume similar things didn't happen in Trump's favor all over the country in State's that he won. Nobody is looking at Florida, or Texas, or even California and Oregon for that matter. We are only looking at states that Trump lost by a slim margin, and that means obviously things didn't go his way in all of those states. If we were investigating every state in the country with the same scrutiny, then we would no doubt see all kinds of problems and situations that would appear suspicious to a suspicious investigator.

Right now there are many people making money off of all of these allegations and have every reason to keep throwing shit at the fan as long as people are standing in front of it with there mouths open. Trump is making shitloads in donations, and that crank lawyer Sydney whatever is raising money and suggesting that you write the check directly to her. These evidence free claims are going to keep being put out there as long as people keep opening their wallets. For a normal person who understands that both parties are corrupt and the media is controlled by corporations, the only sane way to wade through all of this bullshit is to wait and see what actually gets through the heavily republican appointed courts.

Thanks for asking for feedback. Hope that helps. :)
 

ZippyTheOtter

Banned
Aug 29, 2020
906
881
330
Since you guys are begging for feedback I'll tackle a few of these. Most of the points are just unsubstantiated accusations with no evidence, but a few of them are just bad logic.

1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers.

(This accusation has come up and been refuted and dismissed in most of the cases)

2. Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio.

(When mail in votes were counted, they were mostly for Biden for the obvious reason that Trump told his supporters not to use them. Some older 2016 Trump voters used mail in anyway, and voted for Biden because they want someone to take the virus seriously).


5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election’

(There were better campaigns to educate voters on how to use mail in voting properly than at any time in the history of this country, resulting in less mistakes.)

7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes

(Let's pretend this guy's estimate is worth a shit and give the 20,000. There is no reason to assume that they would be voting in any different proportion than the rest of Georgia, which was just slightly above even on Biden's side, so probably negligible even with the slim win.)

8. ‘Over votes.’ Pennsylvania mailed out 1.8 million ballots, but 2.5 million ballots were returned. In 10 Pennsylvania counties, Biden secured more votes than there were registered Democratic voters. In Nevada, there are 77,982 more votes in the presidential election than total ballots cast; Biden’s current margin is 33,596. Ballots exceeded the number of residents by 2.5 times in some Georgia precincts

(These kind of claims have been shown to be bullshit over and over at this point, if there were 2.5 times more ballots than residents in a precinct, that would be easy to prove in court.)

Some of this stuff could obviously be concerning, but most of it appears to be conjecture with no evidence. On top of that, there is no reason to assume similar things didn't happen in Trump's favor all over the country in State's that he won. Nobody is looking at Florida, or Texas, or even California and Oregon for that matter. We are only looking at states that Trump lost by a slim margin, and that means obviously things didn't go his way in all of those states. If we were investigating every state in the country with the same scrutiny, then we would no doubt see all kinds of problems and situations that would appear suspicious to a suspicious investigator.

Right now there are many people making money off of all of these allegations and have every reason to keep throwing shit at the fan as long as people are standing in front of it with there mouths open. Trump is making shitloads in donations, and that crank lawyer Sydney whatever is raising money and suggesting that you write the check directly to her. These evidence free claims are going to keep being put out there as long as people keep opening their wallets. For a normal person who understands that both parties are corrupt and the media is controlled by corporations, the only sane way to wade through all of this bullshit is to wait and see what actually gets through the heavily republican appointed courts.

Thanks for asking for feedback. Hope that helps. :)
Thank you 😎
 
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prag16

Banned
Jul 12, 2012
12,186
4,385
860
Since you guys are begging for feedback I'll tackle a few of these. Most of the points are just unsubstantiated accusations with no evidence, but a few of them are just bad logic.

1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers.

(This accusation has come up and been refuted and dismissed in most of the cases)

2. Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio.

(When mail in votes were counted, they were mostly for Biden for the obvious reason that Trump told his supporters not to use them. Some older 2016 Trump voters used mail in anyway, and voted for Biden because they want someone to take the virus seriously).


5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election’

(There were better campaigns to educate voters on how to use mail in voting properly than at any time in the history of this country, resulting in less mistakes.)

7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes

(Let's pretend this guy's estimate is worth a shit and give the 20,000. There is no reason to assume that they would be voting in any different proportion than the rest of Georgia, which was just slightly above even on Biden's side, so probably negligible even with the slim win.)

8. ‘Over votes.’ Pennsylvania mailed out 1.8 million ballots, but 2.5 million ballots were returned. In 10 Pennsylvania counties, Biden secured more votes than there were registered Democratic voters. In Nevada, there are 77,982 more votes in the presidential election than total ballots cast; Biden’s current margin is 33,596. Ballots exceeded the number of residents by 2.5 times in some Georgia precincts

(These kind of claims have been shown to be bullshit over and over at this point, if there were 2.5 times more ballots than residents in a precinct, that would be easy to prove in court.)

Some of this stuff could obviously be concerning, but most of it appears to be conjecture with no evidence. On top of that, there is no reason to assume similar things didn't happen in Trump's favor all over the country in State's that he won. Nobody is looking at Florida, or Texas, or even California and Oregon for that matter. We are only looking at states that Trump lost by a slim margin, and that means obviously things didn't go his way in all of those states. If we were investigating every state in the country with the same scrutiny, then we would no doubt see all kinds of problems and situations that would appear suspicious to a suspicious investigator.

Right now there are many people making money off of all of these allegations and have every reason to keep throwing shit at the fan as long as people are standing in front of it with there mouths open. Trump is making shitloads in donations, and that crank lawyer Sydney whatever is raising money and suggesting that you write the check directly to her. These evidence free claims are going to keep being put out there as long as people keep opening their wallets. For a normal person who understands that both parties are corrupt and the media is controlled by corporations, the only sane way to wade through all of this bullshit is to wait and see what actually gets through the heavily republican appointed courts.

Thanks for asking for feedback. Hope that helps. :)
That's a lot of hand waving.,
 

greepoman

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Nov 15, 2007
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That's a lot of hand waving.,
That's an easy way of not addressing the points.

How about let's focus on one that I take issue with. The claim 1.8 million ballots requested&sent out and 2.5 million came in. Would be great proof of fraud and easy to check.
Except those numbers don't match the official ones. So which is right...if you do the tiniest amount of googling there were weekly articles in multiple newspapers citing the number of ballots requested. Back in mid October they were already talking about there were over 2 million ballots requested in PA.

So let me ask you why is Guilini throwing out this easily verifiable info in a press conference and not in the actual court case? If there's actual fraud out there having this garbage out there makes it so much harder to win people over when you continue to repeat garbage claims.
 
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Super Mario

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We are told that Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history. But he won a record low of 17 percent of counties; he only won 524 counties, as opposed to the 873 counties Obama won in 2008. Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes.

Orange man so bad that people voted in record numbers. However, in fewer areas than ever, some of which are the subject of the investigation. How can you believe this shit?
 
W

Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
Orange man so bad that people voted in record numbers. However, in fewer areas than ever, some of which are the subject of the investigation. How can you believe this shit?

The excuse will be "population growth" but those areas were already densely populated in 2018.

Also, in 2018 voters in those areas were motivated to vote for the first "black" president. "Orange man bad" is nowhere near as motivating to those same people in 2020.

What you're left with is a voting base ripe for ballot harvesting and precincts where they thought fraud could go undetected.
 
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AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
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Trump got more votes than ever, but his votes were turned into Biden votes, which is it?

More people live in the US than before and turnout was big, so both candidates got record votes. Is that hard to believe?
 

Kadayi

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We're almost a month out, and you need it explained to you this is all political theatre? The numerous other threads haven't done that already?

But no, these same things put into a different ordered list will surely change the conversation.

You truly are the epitome of forum fail. Real people are putting time, energy and money into these lawsuits. The idea that they are doing it simply for optics and not with the belief that they can win/have a point is the preserve of the feeble-minded. This isn't some nebulous abstract, this is reality. Just because the thought that there might be something to it all tightens your sphincter something fierce at the notion of 4 more years of Orange Man Bad, doesn't make it any less real.

Let it all play out, and let's see where the chips land.

He runs a pretty good legal commentary YouTube channel.

Yeah I've caught his clips before, he seems to be on point cutting through the Twitter disinformation to the actual facts. Sadly I don't think our resident astroturfers will pay a blind bit of difference to things.
 
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AetherMage

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More people live in the US than before and turnout was big, so both candidates got record votes. Is that hard to believe?
Yes

 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Jun 1, 2009
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I don't have the time or the resources to go through all of these right now, but at least some of them are nowhere near as bad as they are made out to sound.

5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election’

Although the rules vary between states, in many places in previous elections absentee ballots were severely restricted to those unable to vote in person. This included absentees, but also many elderly and infirm people, who are perhaps more likely to make errors in returning ballots. The proportion of these was greatly reduced by the huge expansion of mail-in voting owing to COVID, so it is not in the least surprising that the rejection rate is lower.

7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes

As I understand it, this analysis was done by looking at the USPS database of address changes which is used to divert mail and is not itself indicative of residency. For example, it may well include out-of-state students who wish to receive their mail but are otherwise perfectly entitled to vote in GA.

8. ‘Over votes.’ Pennsylvania mailed out 1.8 million ballots, but 2.5 million ballots were returned.

This claim is just plain false. 1.8m ballots were mailed out for the primaries (of which 1.4m were returned). 2.5m were returned in the general election (of 3.1m that had been mailed out). You are being lied to.


That's the only ones that I have looked at, but please don't go assuming that I sanction the rest.
 
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psorcerer

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This accusation has come up and been refuted and dismissed in most of the cases

How exactly? What was the cause? Why counting was stopped in all the suspect states?

When mail in votes were counted, they were mostly for Biden for the obvious reason that Trump told his supporters not to use them

Irrelevant. The anomaly is for specific mail-in batches.

There were better campaigns to educate voters on how to use mail in voting properly than at any time in the history of this country, resulting in less mistakes.

And they were working wonders only in swing states? Why exactly? Which campaigns? What was the amount of them?

I think it's enough for now.
 
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Horns

I drop hot takes hoping you'll argue with me. Just ignore me.
Jun 23, 2010
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Puzzling to me how Trump can lose by six million votes and people still think he won.
 
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poppabk

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7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes

(Let's pretend this guy's estimate is worth a shit and give the 20,000. There is no reason to assume that they would be voting in any different proportion than the rest of Georgia, which was just slightly above even on Biden's side, so probably negligible even with the slim win.)

It's simpler than that - it is perfectly normal for people such as military or college students to change their address to their out of state residence and still be eligible to vote in their home state. The NCOA is solely for updating mailing lists (the USPS even released a statement to this effect), it does not reflect a change in home state.
 

Nymphae

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1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers

Has anyone heard any plausible explanation put forth for this yet?
 
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AetherMage

Member
Jun 9, 2014
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I can't actually recall hearing any explanation for this at all. Not one.
Yeah, all I've ever heard is, "people need to take breaks." 🙃

Happened in multiple places at the same time. 1st time ever. Poll watchers sent home right before massive ammounts of ballots show up. Next morning Biden overcame an insurmountable lead everywhere it happened.
One of the 4AM dumps was ~600k votes with 99.4% for Biden. Same ratio and quantity injected at intervals across multiple states. Blatent fraud.
 
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zcaa0g

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Like we can actually trust the courts anymore. Judges are human and just as prone to bribes as the next corrupt human.