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RedBox Going to War With Xbox One (And Loading Ammo For PS4)

Uno Venova

Banned
Jan 24, 2011
21,974
0
0
Brooklyn, NY
gamestop didn't know what the Xbox stance on used games was until we all found out. i don't see reason to believe Gamefly has info on the PS4 no one else has.
 

eorl

Banned
Apr 23, 2013
273
0
0
Australia
www.ausgamers.com
May want to include PlayStation 4 in the title OP, seems they are going after both. Over in Australia we don't have these kind of services so it doesn't "really" effect me, but more power to the consumer I guess.
 

Gartooth

Member
Sep 5, 2011
7,497
0
0
Don't do this to many Sony or so help me God...

Anyway good on Redbox to defend consumer rights, their very business is at stake here. Can't believe some of the other businesses are playing along with this, even if Gamestop is in on the deal with MS, they have to know that these policies are just a transition and in the long run MS will abandon them.
 

harSon

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
43,523
0
0
awesomelybadcinema.wordpress.com
Sony's stance, while hinted not to be as draconian as MS's, is still unclear.

In terms of having to authenticate online every 24-hours, they're definitely not, but didn't Shuhei Yoshida say that the Playstation 4 has a system in place for used games that's up to the publisher to utilize? And that Sony themselves would not be using it?

Edit: Found the specific quote: “It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.”
http://www.screwattack.com/news/son...eature-block-used-games-its-publishers-use-it

This quote and their silence regarding the issue leads me to believe that they definitely have a system in place, but EA being so buddy buddy with Microsoft stops me well short of being 100% sure. Hopefully we'll know soon.
 

Bornstellar

Member
Jan 18, 2012
7,361
0
0
I'm kind of confused by all this anti-consumerism bullshit I'm reading. XBone and PS4 are essentially Steamboxes. I don't read or hear shit about not being able to resale my pc games. Don't buy the machines if you disagree where publishers are going with this. It runs the same course in print, books, newspapers, yellow pages, etc. Times are changing with the digital age. Will Redbox, Gamefly, and any other reseller be pissed? Sure, but the owners of the content are going to do what they want to do. Movies will eventually go through this as well. If I happen to purchase a next gen system, I'll simply wait for games to become cheap enough that I don't have to worry about reselling the game. I'm not standing up for what's happening, I just realize that it's what's happening. I don't have to play games if I disagree with that, I read all these opinions like it's a right or some shit like that. I've built a huge Steam library not spending more then 5-10 bucks per game, I don't see this any different.

Prepare to be assaulted.

Generally the phrase "adapt or die" is meant to apply to companies adapting to changing consumer tastes, not to huge corporate conglomerates making it harder for smaller companies.

Have consumer tastes not been shifting to digital delivery of digital content? That's the trend I'm seeing.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
Don't do this to many Sony or so help me God...

Anyway good on Redbox to defend consumer rights, their very business is at stake here. Can't believe some of the other businesses are playing along with this, even if Gamestop is in on the deal with MS, they have to know that these policies are just a transition and in the long run MS will abandon them.

Redbox isn'd defending consumer rights, they only have to own up to their shareholders. If you'd like to think that's consumers, you're mental.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
I'm kind of confused by all this anti-consumerism bullshit I'm reading. XBone and PS4 are essentially Steamboxes. I don't read or hear shit about not being able to resale my pc games. Don't buy the machines if you disagree where publishers are going with this. It runs the same course in print, books, newspapers, yellow pages, etc. Times are changing with the digital age. Will Redbox, Gamefly, and any other reseller be pissed? Sure, but the owners of the content are going to do what they want to do. Movies will eventually go through this as well. If I happen to purchase a next gen system, I'll simply wait for games to become cheap enough that I don't have to worry about reselling the game. I'm not standing up for what's happening, I just realize that it's what's happening. I don't have to play games if I disagree with that, I read all these opinions like it's a right or some shit like that. I've built a huge Steam library not spending more then 5-10 bucks per game, I don't see this any different.

I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.

Have consumer tastes not been shifting to digital delivery of digital content? That's the trend I'm seeing.

I'm quite sure Redbox would be happy to rent out digital copies of games. Will that be allowed?
 

harSon

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
43,523
0
0
awesomelybadcinema.wordpress.com
Generally the phrase "adapt or die" is meant to apply to companies adapting to changing consumer tastes.

Not really. It's a blanket statement that is inclusive of shifts within the industry as well. For example, consumers have proven that they love AAA titles, and yet a AAA heavy industry is not sustainable. That's more an industry issue that developers/publishers need to adapt to, and not a change in consumer tastes.
 

Hex

Banned
Nov 14, 2009
20,121
1
0
Florida
twitter.com
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.



I'm quite sure Redbox would be happy to rent out digital copies of games. Will that be allowed?

Oh I agree fully.
If game prices dropped from all of this it would be a completely different animal.
 

Visualante2

Member
Oct 20, 2011
14,629
2
0
Redbox isn'd defending consumer rights, they only have to own up to their shareholders. If you'd like to think that's consumers, you're mental.
Ultimately Redbox is a consumer in this equation, just a very large consumer. They're protecting their business, and it just so happens to be parallel to consumer rights.
 
Dec 14, 2008
33,854
2,375
1,360
MS already said no lending or rentals at launch. So maybe in the future, which is why Gamefly isn't saying anything yet.
 

Bornstellar

Member
Jan 18, 2012
7,361
0
0
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.



I'm quite sure Redbox would be happy to rent out digital copies of games. Will that be allowed?

This is a silly argument. Steam sales are special events. Most of the year, games have the same price on Steam that they have everywhere else. Any discounts are also at a publisher's discretion.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.



I'm quite sure Redbox would be happy to rent out digital copies of games. Will that be allowed?

I've bought lots if PS3 and 360 games for 15-20 dollars..... Day one? No, but day 60? Yes, try following cheapassgamer.
 

scrapplejoe

Banned
Mar 5, 2013
201
0
0
Who's to stop Microsoft and Sony from doing a digital rental program..

Rent Halo 5 for 3 nights for $9.99 - Download now!
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
Not really. It's a blanket statement that is inclusive of shifts within the industry as well. For example, consumers have proven that they love AAA titles, and yet a AAA heavy industry is not sustainable. That's more an industry issue that developers/publishers need to adapt to, and not a change in consumer tastes.

This isn't really comparable. In that instance, the troubles developers are experiencing are not caused by a larger company trying to bully them out; they're caused by their own inability to drive down production costs.

As a direct comparison, if Redbox was still technically allowed to rent out games but simply couldn't figure out how to do it and make money, that would be a much less sympathetic position. That is a problem of their own making, and is a much more apt comparison.
 

Gartooth

Member
Sep 5, 2011
7,497
0
0
Redbox isn'd defending consumer rights, they only have to own up to their shareholders. If you'd like to think that's consumers, you're mental.

I don't think you understood what I meant. I'm saying that it's good that they are calling MS out on this right away instead of waiting for this to become the norm. Obviously they don't care about consumer rights, but because their interests align with those of consumers, they have obviously decided to take a stance that benefits them.

Could they potentially make backroom deals with MS like Gamestop and get away just fine? Sure, but sooner or later MS will probably decide to go full on digital, and when that day comes there isn't much that they (or retailers) can do about it.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
This is a silly argument. Steam sales are special events. Most of the year, games have the same price on Steam that they have everywhere else. Any discounts are also at a publisher's discretion.

By "anywhere else" do you mean "anywhere else on PC?" Because then I agree.

Console prices are much higher, though. If console game prices go down to PC game prices, again, I think you'll find that complaints will be significantly muted. I also noticed you made no attempt to respond to my other points whatsoever, which I will take as implicit admission that these are real, significant distinctions.
 

InsaneZero

Member
Jul 25, 2008
3,960
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0
Not really. It's a blanket statement that is inclusive of shifts within the industry as well. For example, consumers have proven that they love AAA titles, and yet a AAA heavy industry is not sustainable. That's more an industry issue that developers/publishers need to adapt to, and not a change in consumer tastes.

Adapt or die isn't really applicable in this case still. They're still producing what the consumer wants, just not very effectively.

EDIT: Or what Opiate just said.
 

Mass Effect

Member
Apr 24, 2011
11,120
4
0
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.



I'm quite sure Redbox would be happy to rent out digital copies of games. Will that be allowed?

And what are the odds of any of those things happening? Not likely.

As far as your second point, I suppose MS could offer a PS+/Gamefly PC Unlimited-like service, but once again, it isn't something I can see them doing.
 

harSon

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
43,523
0
0
awesomelybadcinema.wordpress.com
I can promise you that if the XBox one prices games at 15-20 dollars, reduces the online-check in from one day to one month, and makes XBL free of charge, the complaints will be significantly muted.

And that's definitely a fact that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. People claim to be against the XB1 for its heightened anti-consumer features, but a lot of them can be swayed by changes that simply soften the financial impact of said features without removing them? The position is logical and I completely understand it, but it's inherently hypocritical.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
I don't think you understood what I meant. I'm saying that it's good that they are calling MS out on this right away instead of waiting for this to become the norm. Obviously they don't care about consumer rights, but because their interests align with those of consumers, they have obviously decided to take a stance that benefits them.

Could they potentially make backroom deals with MS like Gamestop and get away just fine? Sure, but sooner or later MS will probably decide to go full on digital, and when that day comes there isn't much that they (or retailers) can do about it.

I get that, but I just think people should understand that what they would put out is about Redboxes bottom line, not consumers.
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,302
3
0
San Francisco
The only way this is the market talking or consumer driven is if Sony doesn't end up doing anything similar.

Then we can see what the customers decide.

The true villains in this story are the ones who don't want the choice to be available. Who relish the thought of Sony unveiling their own draconian DRM.

And that's definitely a fact that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. People claim to be against the XB1 for its heightened anti-consumer features, but a lot of them can be swayed by changes that simply soften the financial impact of said features without removing them? The position is logical and I completely understand it, but it's inherently hypocritical.
I consider it bargaining. Haggling. Trade. Commerce even.

It doesn't change whats legal and what's not, but it can definitely drive customer acceptance.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
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0
Saint Louis / New York City
And that's definitely a fact that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. People claim to be against the XB1 for its heightened anti-consumer features, but a lot of them can be swayed by changes that simply soften the financial impact of said features without removing them? The position is logical and I completely understand it, but it's inherently hypocritical.


It isn't hypocritical. Customers are willing to accept the removal of some features (e.g. the inability to resell) if new features are introduced to replace them (for example, lower prices and free online portals). People get upset when features are removed with no substantial benefits to replace them.
 

eorl

Banned
Apr 23, 2013
273
0
0
Australia
www.ausgamers.com
This is a silly argument. Steam sales are special events. Most of the year, games have the same price on Steam that they have everywhere else. Any discounts are also at a publisher's discretion.
Exactly this. While I absolutely love Steam, their prices aren't as cheap as people claim. Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is still $80 for me in Australia. A 360 or PS3 copy in EB Games is now $50-$60. Steam does have these fabled price drops, but not as frequent as people lead you to believe.

Steam is a great service, and what the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are moving to is pretty much this system. I can understand the hatred for not being able to swap your discs or lend to a friend, but we've had to put up with this for nearly 10 years on PC. At least count your ducks you can actually sell your games.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
Exactly this. While I absolutely love Steam, their prices aren't as cheap as people claim. Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is still $80 for me in Australia. A 360 or PS3 copy in EB Games is now $50-$60. Steam does have these fabled price drops, but not as frequent as people lead you to believe.

Steam is a great service, and what the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are moving to is pretty much this system. I can understand the hatred for not being able to swap your discs or lend to a friend, but we've had to put up with this for nearly 10 years on PC. At least count your ducks you can actually sell your games.

It really isn't. Steam prices (and PC prices generally) are dramatically cheaper. It's possible that Australia does not get these benefits.
 

Bornstellar

Member
Jan 18, 2012
7,361
0
0
By "anywhere else" do you mean "anywhere else on PC?" Because then I agree.

Console prices are much higher, though. If console game prices go down to PC game prices, again, I think you'll find that complaints will be significantly muted. I also noticed you made no attempt to respond to my other points whatsoever, which I will take as implicit admission that these are real, significant distinctions.

They are issues, yes. XBL will, however, remain a subscription service. If they fail to provide adequate value (in the eyes of those that continue to subscribe - you and I may disagree with their perception), though, they will lose those subscriptions. The 24 hour check in is problematic, but then you lose the ability to resell or transfer game licenses (since there is no longer a way to verify that you have revoked the license to some piece of content via a transfer or resale).

It really isn't. Steam prices (and PC prices generally) are dramatically cheaper. It's possible that Australia does not get these benefits.

There is generally a 10 dollar (I wouldn't call that dramatic) gap at launch, but that gap usually shrinks as the price goes down. That gap is also publisher dependent. There are many games which day and date have the same price across platforms. The difference is that many specials and sales are accessible without leaving your home.
 

duxstar

Member
Jan 13, 2010
1,947
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0
Any console that doesn't support Gamefly will lose my vote .... Gamefly is the best way for a broke person like me to play the newest games that come out, its a great service. I don't care about multiplayer so I get to try single player campaigns and send the game back. Why should I pay $60 for a product when I literally don't want 1/2 of it?
 

harSon

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
43,523
0
0
awesomelybadcinema.wordpress.com
This isn't really comparable. In that instance, the troubles developers are experiencing are not caused by a larger company trying to bully them out; they're caused by their own inability to drive down production costs.

As a direct comparison, if Redbox was still technically allowed to rent out games but simply couldn't figure out how to do it and make money, that would be a much less sympathetic position. That is a problem of their own making, and is a much more apt comparison.

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. We're talking about the statement "adapt or die" being applicable to the realities of the industry itself, and not exclusively those of the consumers. I'm not saying my example is inherently similar to another company being forced to adapt through competing corporate pressure, simply that they're both examples where a company must adapt or die.
 

LowParry

Member
Nov 30, 2007
21,050
0
1,215
Utah
I suppose GameFly will be up next with the rage. Who knows. What a weird generation of gaming we live in.
 

eorl

Banned
Apr 23, 2013
273
0
0
Australia
www.ausgamers.com
It really isn't. Steam prices (and PC prices generally) are dramatically cheaper. It's possible that Australia does not get these benefits.
In America. Outside of there the prices aren't that great. We rarely get games below $70 here, especially for console games where the prices can be around the $100 mark at times.

Don't get me wrong, Steam prices can be amazing at times and I've spent thousands on getting all 177 games I own. But the prices are pretty consistent for the first year or so of a new release. Even the fabled Steam sales offer great prices for great games, but are mostly indie titles or games that are well over their year of life.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
0
0
Saint Louis / New York City
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. We're talking about the statement "adapt or die" being applicable to the realities of the industry itself, and not exclusively those of the consumers. I'm not saying my example is inherently similar to another company being forced to adapt through competing corporate pressure, simply that they're both examples where a company must adapt or die.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a substantial difference between a problem of your own making and a problem caused by a large corporate conglomerate trying to bully you out of a market.

If Redbox was simply incompetent and couldn't figure out how to deliver game rentals to consumers in a financially responsible way, there would be much less sympathy for their plight. But that isn't what is going on. Their problems are not caused by a lack of consumer demand in rentals, nor is it caused by their inability to figure out how to be profitable delivering that product to consumers.

Redbox's problem is entirely caused by a much larger company (namely, Microsoft), deliberately trying to push them out of the market for their own gain. That strikes me as a very significant distinction.
 

Visualante2

Member
Oct 20, 2011
14,629
2
0
eorl Call of Duty is a difficult example, because Activision rarely discounts it (nor do they need to) but most well received AAA titles are 75% off within 9 months. There are better examples.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Aug 3, 2008
6,570
0
0
All of the Redboxes in my area barely have any games, it's almost all movies anyways. Gamefly should be more worried.
 

Opiate

Member
Dec 4, 2007
22,801
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0
Saint Louis / New York City
In America. Outside of there the prices aren't that great. We rarely get games below $70 here, especially for console games where the prices can be around the $100 mark at times.

Don't get me wrong, Steam prices can be amazing at times and I've spent thousands on getting all 177 games I own. But the prices are pretty consistent for the first year or so of a new release. Even the fabled Steam sales offer great prices for great games, but are mostly indie titles or games that are well over their year of life.

This also explains why there are lots of viable, popular gaming options besides Steam on the PC. If there are options outside of XBox Live on the XBox One just as there are options outside of Windows Live on PC, I suspect that would also quiet complaints.

If literally none of the available portals on PC (Steam, Browser, Amazon, NewEgg, Good old Games, etc.) offer good deals in Australia, that is definitely unfortunate and should be rectified.
 

urge26

Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,453
0
865
Cincinnati, OH
Steam, Amazon, Gamersgate, and Greenmangaming make pc gaming so incredibly cheap it's not even funny..... Tomb Raider day one, 27 bucks....I can't speak outside of the US, but there seems to be new sales every second. I don't read people bitching about the fact you can't resale that digital content, all I'm saying.
 

tatotiburon

Banned
Oct 15, 2010
97
0
650
Bogotá
a war they likely going to loose. I remember back in the day when music and video stores were angry about the new digital movement (napster, itunes, netflix) some of them went out of business others just embrace this new business model.

Now rentals aren't over in xbox one, microsoft said it very clear, maybe at launch it won't be available but in the future we will see gamefly, redbox, amazon and others retailers working on xbox live