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Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources

Mr_Appleby

Member
Mar 21, 2008
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0
995
Space Engine is very capable of providing the ability to travel in a contiguous universe without the need to warp.

Cool, I wasn't sure. interesting explanation I found:

SpaceEngineer said:
Using hierarchic coordinate system. I.e. planets position/rotation are calculated in double precision float relative to system barycenter (it have coordinates (0,0,0)), system barycenter is stored in single precision float (that's enough) relative to galactic center (it already have coordinates (0,0,0) in this reference frame), and galaxies coordinates is stored in single precision float relative to universe origin (that is the Sun smile )
Camera position is stored in 64.64 fixed point number, that is used to precise calculation of a position relative to local reference frame (galactic and planetary system), to avoid lost of precision. It is possible to set coordinates of the camera with precision of 1 mm in the scale range of 15000 gigaparsecs. However I will shift it down to 1 micron - 15 gigaparsecs, for better precision on the small scale.

Overall his method doesn't sound overly complex so I wonder why other devs have chosen to go with these hard resets required.
 

KingV

Member
Jul 30, 2004
5,540
2
1,450
This is still my biggest letdown and I'm even enjoying the game, mostly. It's also, to me, the most serious thing HG deserves criticism for. Having like, space, in your space game, is a pre-requisite for the genre. And Sean was pretty big on this one thing - the game being "not fake" and all. When in reality it's entirely fake.

I'd honestly like to know if a version of the game ever existed in which solar systems had a real layout, and the other stars in the sky were the real positions of the stars in the No Man's Sky galaxy. Or did they really entirely lie about what the game was, and knew they could never make that.

I think this is the biggest lie. Sean has been throwing shade at other games for "faking" physics for years at this point, and like...welcome to No Mans Sky.
 

androvsky

Member
Sep 19, 2007
7,939
1
895
I think this is the biggest lie. Sean has been throwing shade at other games for "faking" physics for years at this point, and like...welcome to No Mans Sky.
And Space Engine had been doing all of that for years before NMS was even announced.
 

Speely

Banned
Oct 10, 2015
6,364
0
0
Seattle, WA
I'm astounded this isn't parody.

Me too. It's crazy that so many cannot wrap their heads around the possibility that this could be a good game (it is, imo) and that the developers might have good intentions, but that ALL of that was shot to shit when Sean knowingly mislead people.

Is the game a piece of shit? No. It's ok. Is it what the spokesperson sold to us? Not even close. Not even in the same solar system (which in NMS terms means it doesn't even exist.)
 
Oct 30, 2015
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If I'm going to buy into hyperbolic, speculative conspiracy theories about lies, it's only fair to assume the creators occasionally fulfill their evil promises too.

Speculative!?

1. We have hard evidence in video/tweet form of Sean Murray slinging these statements as fact for years leading up to the release of No Man's Sky.

2. The NMS community noted these claims and have compared them with the final product.

Can you tell me exactly what is speculative about this process? I think we've pretty much determined that we haven't been told the truth. Lies? Mistruths? Confusion? Call it whatever you want. The only thing potentially speculative about this shit show right now is why Sean Murray, who seemed to have infinite free time to hype NMS up on twitter for years up to release, is now unwilling to do the same for his product and community. Oh wait, that is bordering on obvious to me.

If we were all working on speculation I feel like this whole mess would have been pretty easy to correct, but that's hard to do when the other side decided to oddly fall off the face of the planet only when his actions have come into question. But hey, if you find Sean's tweets entertaining you can still find him posting NMS hype, and vague patch notes on Twitter when he has found spare time in his schedule that's usually reserved for ignoring the community that made him and his studio millions at release based on his claims. Enjoy!
 
Feb 25, 2013
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I'm a dev working on PS4 and PC.

He shits the bed for all of us. Just like failed and cash-grab Kickstarters shit the bed for legitimate campaigns.


Yo.

Yo.

He literally said two different things about the games features right before/after release.

Edit:
Check out @NoMansSky's Tweet: https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/762688708764135425?s=09

Check out @NoMansSky's Tweet: https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/763270512277594112?s=09

Timestamps. How do they work?


Constantly bending your features to fit the EXACT narrative time and again is fucking lying.

Joe Danger 1
Fuck Xbox, PS Rulz!
Sorry xbros! We will give you more content! Xbox Rulz!
Sorry Psbros, we will give you more content than xboys but you have to pay for it all over again

Joe Danger Times 2
See: Joe Danger 1

This is what Sean does. He will say whatever he can to fit the current narrative to sell a product.

We know from data mining and packet capture that MP doesn't and probably never existed while we can fuckin find the live "unscripted" E3 showing in the files.

Dude.

Dude.

Stop making excuses for him.

No no, dude. Stop. Seriously.

The more people like you make excuses "oh that's not lying, that's just misleading", the more this shit will get done.

As a consumer, I'm tired of this bullshit.

As a dev, I'm tired of sharing the same space with devs like this. It makes it less likely the shit I say about my game will be believed.

I do stuff like mini gamedev docs so you can see our process and how we build stuff. Just to share tips and tricks Ang give insight into gamedev.

I do live streams of me fumbling through code (hey, you try coding 30 steps ahead in your brain and talk to people in real time and answer questions before all that code in your brain vanishes) because it might help another dev or maybe folks just like seeing that process of making an enemy, animating them and the code that goes behind it. So people can see the process.

Plenty of devs do it right. Then there's this guy. But you have to make excuses? Come the fuck on.

Yo, Jacksinthe, shoot me a link to your streams over PM or something. You seem like the kind of dev I'd like to follow and support. Plus I'm just starting to learn how to code and am very interested in seeing how bigger projects are done.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Feb 13, 2005
15,791
0
0
I've been having a great time with the game. These little nit picks don't ruin the overall experience. Many of the features I'm sure will be added with patches eventually.

A lot of you need to chill.
Little nitpicks is not what I would call straight up lying about how your game is designed. You don't just patch in multiplayer or magically turn this skybox system into the fully functioning mathematically complex universe that was originally promised.

By all means, say you were willing to buy the game in spite of that. Let people know in relevent threads you enjoy what is actually there, but don't go fucking knighting in a thread specifically talking about these issues. Many of which are not small nitpicks. Don't act like people that are rightfully annoyed that a developer lied about their product are out of bounds for either feeling misled, voting with their wallets or just wanting to hold developers accountable in an industry that basically encourages and feeds into/rewards well delivered snake oil salesman tactics.

Sean could of easily sold this game as a $20 indie title that he marketed as his first attempt to realize a long held dream. Instead he chose to publicly and continually over promise and over sell.

It's a shame too because the loss of goodwill is probably going to destroy any chance at a well funded sequel that could of possibly achieved the goals he promised this go round and much more.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2009
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noplatform.wordpress.com
Setting no man's skyn aside for a ment and just looking at this, it's not actually true. Neither Elite, Star Citizen or anything else I know of has a true contiguous universe. In SC I believe you'll have to warp from system to system, not sure what they plan if you try to fly. In Elite you can fly there but I think planets and things don't instance until you jump (do a 0AU jump). it basically comes down to the way computers store floating point numbers - not ALL real numbers can be represented and in fact as the numbers get bigger (or smaller too) the amount of error increases. So if you say the sun as 0,0,0 in the world, the further you get from the sun the greater the deviation between the number 'as it should be' and the closest representable number.

So changing star box via jumping or other means resets 0,0,0 to a new local coordinate to provide the best amount of "accurate" space, and distance spots (eg where you just jumped from) go from being accurate positions to approximations. It's an interesting problem and I know people are trying to come up with better solutions like shifting the origin (the 0 point) during regular flight but it's not as simple as that sounds.

So basically, floating point and fixed point fractional number representations in computer memory are not at all conducive to accurate position information over very large spaces and there's jack all you can do but code around it where you can.

Space Engine is very capable of providing the ability to travel in a contiguous universe without the need to warp.

Frontier: Elite II, also had planets rotating and orbiting in real time. You could notice this when fast forwarded time. Again, that game came out in 1993 and was largely made by one person (so was Space Engine).
 

Gator86

Member
Jun 23, 2013
7,835
1
0
Every time I see mention of this, which is not nearly often enough, I am still shocked he had the audacity to make the claim.

Absolutely. Murray knew he was lying on at least some of the stuff he said. There's no fucking chance a 15 person indie studio had a realistic, cutting edge physics engine in their game, for PS4, that had real time light refraction based on the elements in the atmosphere and the position of the sun as the planet rotated. It's absolutely fucking bullshit and Molyneux, himself, would be impressed by the claim. Murray a liar who knowingly made promises he couldn't deliver on. He deserves to be dragged by social and traditional media for it.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
15,997
8,339
1,275
Me too. It's crazy that so many cannot wrap their heads around the possibility that this could be a good game (it is, imo) and that the developers might have good intentions, but that ALL of that was shot to shit when Sean knowingly mislead people.

Is the game a piece of shit? No. It's ok. Is it what the spokesperson sold to us? Not even close. Not even in the same solar system (which in NMS terms means it doesn't even exist.)

I've been having a great time with the game. These little nit picks don't ruin the overall experience. Many of the features I'm sure will be added with patches eventually.

A lot of you need to chill.


I've been in every thread that has discussed the lies/missing features, I'd be willing to be that a majority of those that are disappointed in how NMS turned out don't actually want to see it fail, I'd bet that many want to see it become what it should be. I certainly do. I don't hate the game, I just hate how it was promoted. I really want NMS to be great, but it just seems more like a tech demo/proof of concept. I'm willing to buy it, I WANT to buy it, but I want it to be what Sean Murray said it would be first, once it reaches that level I'm all in. If Elite:Dangerous beats it there first, well.... I'll go back to that. There is room for many more games in the space-genre, and frankly there's been a big lack of them since the PS1 era and I'm happy to see that the genre get a revival as of late.

The two-week refund window on Steam pre-orders closes in 6.5 days, so possibly around then.
I'd get a Sensible Chuckle if this were the case.
 

00ich

Member
Feb 7, 2007
1,032
20
990
Germany
Why do people feel the need to defend this game in this thread. There is a OT where you confess your love for this game.This thread is for the shady shit that Sean did to promote his game.
I like the game for what it is, but I personally feel it is not the game Sean said it was. It gets old reading how I am a entitled consumer, don't understand how hard and stressful game devlopment is.
Making movies is hard and stressful,but have never seen anyone defend Zack Snyder this much on GAF.
Where do I defend the game or the developer?
This thread is rife with spiteful, personal attacks on Sean Murray mostly based on a narrative that he was lying i.e. knew better at the time he spoke. Which is a curious claim when cutting features for the final release is a thing as old as complex simulation games.
 

Axiology

Member
Jan 19, 2012
1,058
0
0
Where do I defend the game or the developer?
This thread is rife with spiteful, personal attacks on Sean Murray mostly based on a narrative that he was lying i.e. knew better at the time he spoke. Which is a curious claim when cutting features for the final release is a thing as old as complex simulation games.

So if I tell you I'm making a game where you can catch 1,000 Pokemon and I even do an interview the day before it comes out saying, sure, there will definitely be 1,000 of them-- only for you to find out at launch that there are only 3, am I a liar? Or can I still say "Oh, things change. Games are hard"?
 

oSoLucky

Member
Jun 15, 2013
2,967
34
505
Seattle, USA
Where do I defend the game or the developer?
This thread is rife with spiteful, personal attacks on Sean Murray mostly based on a narrative that he was lying i.e. knew better at the time he spoke. Which is a curious claim when cutting features for the final release is a thing as old as complex simulation games.

There has been a tone of "If you're not with us, you're against us" with a lot of the posters. Some can't understand how you could not be outraged unless you're a corporate apologist defending this lying traitor. I don't think I could ever get so emotionally invested to feel wronged or screwed over on this level, nor resort to joining a week-plus long campaign to abuse or defend said developer. Every time that I've stated that I thought the campaign was overblown, I've gotten responded to with the "how can you defend this?" line too. And yes, this is a campaign/crusade against HG at this point whether a bunch of people throwing personal insults at someone they don't know think so or not.
 

ultrazilla

Member
Sep 17, 2011
4,316
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www.scifijapan.com
The two-week refund window on Steam pre-orders closes in 6.5 days, so possibly around then.


Remember that there's a two week period and/or 2 hour playtime limit. Most people have probably sunk 2 hours into the game and will not be eligible for a refund per Steam's refunding rules.

I was 15 minutes over a time frame for a refund and was denied.

So anyone thinking they can play the game for close to two weeks and ask for a refund at the end is setting themselves up for a big letdown.
 

Glass Shark

Banned
Feb 24, 2013
9,967
24
525
Imagine you've worked insanely hard creating an amazing game. One unlike any other, what could literally be the next Minecraft. Of course in interviews you'd be enthusiastic about the possibilities of the game, be it at launch or down the road a bit.

The PS4 has a lot of limitations, but the PC version has only just launched. Mods will fix some problems, patches will fix others. The base game is still incredible. Maybe your expectations were higher than mine, but to me what was advertised is for the most part what I'm getting.

Compare this release to the first Alpha release of Minecraft. A huge patch, expansion pack or sequel that builds on this is gonna be amazing. A mod could flip on multiplayer tomorrow and you've got the best MMO ever made.

This would be all well and good if the game came stamped with a big "ALPHA" tag, launched in Early Access, and/or didn't cost $60. But this was sold as a full-price, finished game. That's not okay.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
15,997
8,339
1,275
Remember that there's a two week period and/or 2 hour playtime limit. Most people have probably sunk 2 hours into the game and will not be eligible for a refund per Steam's refunding rules.

I was 15 minutes over a time frame for a refund and was denied.

So anyone thinking they can play the game for close to two weeks and ask for a refund at the end is setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Most people know it's whichever comes first. Or at least I'd like to think they know that.
 

00ich

Member
Feb 7, 2007
1,032
20
990
Germany
So if I tell you I'm making a game where you can catch 1,000 Pokemon and I even do an interview the day before it comes out saying, sure, there will definitely be 1,000 of them-- only for you to find out at launch that there are only 3, am I a liar? Or can I still say "Oh, things change. Games are hard"?
Main difference here that hello games had a post trying to take the hype a little and that no man's sky always was about a billion different procedurally generated planets. A promise they fully delivered on. It's not that no man's sky is vastly different from what was shown at e3 or those pillars videos i.e. the official communication.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
Remember that there's a two week period and/or 2 hour playtime limit. Most people have probably sunk 2 hours into the game and will not be eligible for a refund per Steam's refunding rules.

I'm aware, and the refunds FAQ makes this abundantly clear. The point is that the window completely closes for everyone come two weeks after release, short of Valve making an exception in select cases. Regarding your particular refund request:

I think support tickets would be the way to go for refund requests that fall outside either window. The refund system is largely automated and the note section is more for devs (who are also privy to the reasons given) than Valve.
If you get knocked back and the response doesn't suggest your reasoning was taken into account, reiterate why you feel an exception should be made as there's a good chance that your message wasn't actually read in full and the CSR just issued a recommended response. Stump explaining in detail that he'd like his received gift history only be told where to find his sent gift history is still the most egregious example I'm aware of.

There's no guarantee you'll get a different response, but I'd say the chances are higher as at least you can be sure the reasons you gave will actually be read (if not at first, then definitely after you bump the ticket).
 

oSoLucky

Member
Jun 15, 2013
2,967
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505
Seattle, USA
Main difference here that hello games had a post trying to take the hype a little and that no man's sky always was about a billion different procedurally generated planets. A promise they fully delivered on. It's not that no man's sky is vastly different from what was shown at e3 or those pillars videos i.e. the official communication.

They fully delivered on the main premise of the game, but there is documented evidence of numerous smaller issues, which should have been clarified pre-release. The hate is way overblown though.
 

Axiology

Member
Jan 19, 2012
1,058
0
0
Main difference here that hello games had a post trying to take the hype a little and that no man's sky always was about a billion different procedurally generated planets. A promise they fully delivered on. It's not that no man's sky is vastly different from what was shown at e3 or those pillars videos i.e. the official communication.

That wasn't my question. I'm not talking about Hello Games and I'm not talking about what the game was "about", I'm talking about where the threshold is before you consider someone to be a liar. Deflecting into what Sean Murray and his team accomplished is completely besides the point.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
Yeah, I figured most people would know this by now but just a friendly reminder for those who may have not used the service. :)

Fair enough. In your case, as per my edit, I'd try your luck with a support ticket. At worst you'll just be denied again, so there's no harm in giving it another shot, and at least you'll know that your request wasn't binned simply because of the excessive playtime.
 

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Dec 15, 2013
25,270
0
0
twitter.com
Imagine you've worked insanely hard creating an amazing game. One unlike any other, what could literally be the next Minecraft. Of course in interviews you'd be enthusiastic about the possibilities of the game, be it at launch or down the road a bit.

The PS4 has a lot of limitations, but the PC version has only just launched. Mods will fix some problems, patches will fix others. The base game is still incredible. Maybe your expectations were higher than mine, but to me what was advertised is for the most part what I'm getting.

Compare this release to the first Alpha release of Minecraft. A huge patch, expansion pack or sequel that builds on this is gonna be amazing. A mod could flip on multiplayer tomorrow and you've got the best MMO ever made.
Puhleaseeeeeeeee. There's enthusiasm about possibilities and then there's making shit up about what's IN THE GAME ALREADY. Most developers are intelligent enough, or perhaps have enough integrity, to keep their conversations to possibilities, rather than resorting to throwing shade at other games claiming that their own game is doing things those games aren't.

Notch is a chimp and an asshole but he didn't run his mouth about feature-sets quite like Sean Murray. Even worse, comparing the $60 release of No Man's Sky to the discounted price-structure of Minecraft's early releases is just so incoherent that it boggles the mind.
Jax is a perennial shitposter, so I'm not convinced it's parody.
 

commedieu

Banned
Jan 10, 2009
27,354
1
0
Wait..so if I engaged pulse drive in a direction, I'd never leave the box? There is NO actual contiguous universe?

What the FUCK?

You wouldn't be able to tell if you pulsed or warped anyway...

This one is a hard choice. There seems to be a lot of hate. But the ot makes it look fun. Hmm...

Decisions.
 
Feb 25, 2013
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Where do I defend the game or the developer?
This thread is rife with spiteful, personal attacks on Sean Murray mostly based on a narrative that he was lying i.e. knew better at the time he spoke. Which is a curious claim when cutting features for the final release is a thing as old as complex simulation games.

There has been a tone of "If you're not with us, you're against us" with a lot of the posters. Some can't understand how you could not be outraged unless you're a corporate apologist defending this lying traitor. I don't think I could ever get so emotionally invested to feel wronged or screwed over on this level, nor resort to joining a week-plus long campaign to abuse or defend said developer. Every time that I've stated that I thought the campaign was overblown, I've gotten responded to with the "how can you defend this?" line too. And yes, this is a campaign/crusade against HG at this point whether a bunch of people throwing personal insults at someone they don't know think so or not.

When you make sweeping accusations like this you had better put up or shut up IMO.

They fully delivered on the main premise of the game, but there is documented evidence of numerous smaller issues, which should have been clarified pre-release. The hate is way overblown though.

Why do you think there is hate? As I've stated before,

I think the thing that hurts the most out of all of this is that so many here think that people like us are out to get HG or something. Like we want to tear them to shreds. I can't express enough how that is just not true. However, as consumers we absolutely have to stick up for our rights first and foremost. Because trust me, people will take your money any flipping way they can.

What we are wanting here is higher standards for the gaming industry and a friendlier environment for consumers. Back when I was in private school, which I worked my butt off to pay my way through since my family was dirt poor, our school motto was to strive for excellence in all that we do. This lead me to think about that motto every day since. I slowly came to see how whenever I did my best and tried to meet higher standards, especially when doing things for others, the world could indeed change for the better because we would all have better things in the end. For example, businesses would stay in business longer because of the quality of their products and their customers would be happier because of it. That's all we want for HG and it would absolutely be better for them in the end.

But in order for this to happen we need to demand higher standards. Not just for NMS, but for any game that comes along regardless of whether or not they are indie. Because if we give the industry an inch they will take a mile. They will always be pushing against that line that we have drawn. Which is only going to keep being pushed farther back the more we let it and that is exactly what I see happening. By saying that, "it's no big deal. they need to make money to keep afloat," or, "But they are a small team!" and other similar arguments we are setting the precedent for the industry to follow suit because this is how much we will allow now.

I mean, ask yourselves, is this really the way you want every game to happen? Some people seem like they are ok with setting the precedent for more games to launch like NMS where it's ok if devs launch their games at AAA prices with little meaningful content but in it's place so many false promises. Or even just gaming campaigns where the devs are so vague they could have run for office.

That's not how I want the industry to become and it really doesn't have to be that way. I know that it sucks that HG is the one stuck in the crosshairs but you have to start somewhere. I mean, how frigging cool would it be if more and more people started to call for HG to speak out and it was HG themselves who took that first step to setting the precedent for being upfront and honest towards the consumers and striving to reach higher standards in this industry. That IMO would solidify their reputation beyond what NMS will ever be able to do. In just doing that and sticking to it, they could reach the levels of respect that CDProjekt and the handful of others have who also IMO strive for this standard.

If they had been honest about their mistakes before launch their reputation would still be way more in tact than it is today and a lot of their former fan base would have respected them even more for being honest.

Detractors would have had much less fuel to use as fodder. At this point HG have poisoned their own well and that sucks for them because it's the one they are going to be drinking from for a long time.

Thing is that for whatever reason a lot of money centric people, investors and the like, don't take into count is long term loyal fan base because for them it's all about money right now as fast as they can have it.

Thing is that your reputation and the following that it garners are incredibly important for indies and any start up for that matter. Why? Because you will misstep. It is only a matter of time. Your loyal fan baste whom you have been honest and open with are the ones who are going to keep you afloat in that time of crisis. They are the ones who will be the first to forgive, they will be the ones who will be out there fighting for you in the trenches and they will be the ones who will be there with you on your next endeavor.

All of this is exactly what I was hoping they would avoid. I saw this coming if they stayed silent and it's the second biggest reason I joined this "movement" if you will. The first biggest being consumer rights and raising the bar/standards that the we let the industry meet for us.

So, I think most people are angry at the entire situation and the very real possibility that if this issue isn't pressed to some sort of resolution that there will not be enough of an example made and it will just keep repeating itself over and over again instead of hopefully setting the bar back up a little higher. And, yes, I couldn't fault people for being hateful towards someone whom is contributing to the dark side of the industry that they love and giving it a bad name and also whom it seems has taken their money and run, but I also don't see that as being the bulk of the sentiment here like you seem to think either. However, IMO this sentiment is only going to keep getting worse the longer they keep quiet.
 

oSoLucky

Member
Jun 15, 2013
2,967
34
505
Seattle, USA

Why do people feel the need to defend this game in this thread. There is a OT where you confess your love for this game.This thread is for the shady shit that Sean did to promote his game.
I like the game for what it is, but I personally feel it is not the game Sean said it was. It gets old reading how I am a entitled consumer, don't understand how hard and stressful game devlopment is.
Making movies is hard and stressful,but have never seen anyone defend Zack Snyder this much on GAF.

Sean Murray is impressive if only for the legion of sycophants he's managed to cultivate during the development of NMS. Even Kojima Gaf is looking reasonable compared to this shit.


In response to

None the less it's an increasingly bizarre parallel discussion to the one about the actual game.

Where absolutely nothing was said in defense of the game, just the original poster that was quoted 2 posts before that. Yet 00ich was jumped on. I can find you more if you feel that it's somehow relevant. Those are on this very page(100ppp). This isn't the only place on the internet discussing it, and also not the only thread this forum has had. I am not playing either side of the fence really, and this is a forum for open discussion. Having an emotional stake in the matter clouds objectivity. If you need me to go find quotes that can be taken as insults/attacks on him as a person to satisfy the "abuse" portion that you have underlined, then you haven't been paying attention to the conversation much.

I personally feel the fact that the term hate(and is apt to some of the responses) can even be used in this situation is mind boggling to me. For one, I have never stated that every single poster has been that way, just that a lot have.

I realize that not everyone is raging like Jacksinthe. Since you gave me a bit of background on yourself, here's a small bit on me. I grew up pretty solidly lower-middle class to middle-class. I ended up getting a full ride to University from football and academics(I could have chosen either and had it completely paid for). I blew all of that on partying and playing Devil May Cry 3/Gran Turismo 4 instead of going to class. I dropped out, and got kicked out of the house by my parents. From there, I lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with 5 other people to try to make ends meet. I slept on the floor in the corner of the kitchen, and worked 2 full time jobs for months to try to turn my life around. I did a lot of volunteer work with inner city kids after that, as I also learned that hard work can make everything better.

I spend probably 70% of my free time away from work, wife and son playing, discussing or researching video games. This hobby is a significant portion of my life, as it seems to be of yours. I am in complete agreement that this particular issue shouldn't be taken lying down if people so feel compelled. I, however, feel the level of emotional investment sent HG's way is excessive, and personal insults. Again, looking at the greater argument, not even just this one thread(though attacks like "scammer" and "bare-footed hipster" are presented here), and some people have lost their minds over this game. Also, my stance on this game could be coloring my feelings for this whole ordeal. I never cared that much about No Man's Sky, heck, I don't get emotionally attached to very many videogames(products) to begin with. I didn't have some high hopes that this developer, that only made Joe Danger before, was somehow going to blow the whole industry away......the likes of which has only happened a few times in gaming history. That could possibly be why I don't feel personally hurt as it seems some are taking it.

You quoted me, yet you're putting forth a lot of discussion points about arguments that I've never had and stances that I've never taken. I understand quite well economics on a more than basic level, but this studio hasn't given me a reason to care about them being successful, to be brutally honest. I have no horse in the race with what their investors do or don't want, and investors have a history of being very uninformed in this industry(see: Nintendo/Niantic). Deception on this level is a rarity, so a one off from a tiny developer doesn't foreshadow some huge paradigm shift in the industry to make this the norm.

If the words that I typed were read literally instead of trying to grasp at what you think I mean by them, then you'd see that I think this is an issue, just not one that deserves a response on this level. I obviously don't have numbers of threads/posts on hand, but my feeling is that this has gotten to the level of practices such as online passes, sparse season passes, and others which are much scummier, and with much further reaching consequences.

Anyway, I'm going to take my own usual advice and install that tool that lets me filter threads and stay completely out of NMS threads. There is little to be gained for me here, and everything seems to just be going round and round. If you would like any more posts to back up what I've said, then feel free to PM me, as I probably won't be returning here.
 

Pestilence11

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Feb 2, 2012
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I seem to remember them not seeing that. Uploaded names and shit, yes, terrain no. Maybe someone else has the video to confirm.

I figured that was the case because I read/heard it before, just wanted confirmation.

Unrelated edit: I hope they expand the usefulness of the galactic map, specifically where friends and zooming is involved, since that's what was originally planned.
 

mcz117chief

Member
Sep 29, 2013
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Read the post and damn. I was shocked at the final wrap up about the footage from the 4 pillars videos. That is shady as fuck.

The guys a straight up fucking liar. What more is there to say.

The fact that people still defend him and say that they got "exactly what we expected" and that it's our fault that we dig too much into this and make up our own fantasies about the game. I have a friend who says that it's my fault that I think the game underdelivered because he likes it and that means that the game is fine.

"I love the game so you are wrong!" basically.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Apr 26, 2006
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not sure if its been pointed out already, but i'm noticing some stuff they've removed for the better though -- you dont have to go to a beacon to upload your discoveries, you dont need to go to a building to save stuff

one of the questions also was "are there npcs in the game" and he says "no" -- that's strange
 

Dunkley

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Jun 17, 2014
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I've been having a great time with the game. These little nit picks don't ruin the overall experience. Many of the features I'm sure will be added with patches eventually.

A lot of you need to chill.

Yeah thanks for adding that dismissive non-statement to the discussion.

I'm glad you are enjoying the game, but that doesn't necessarily translate in everyone else having to as well. People have their right to be upset about being excited and later disappointed over something that the developer has been talking up only to be now going completely radio silent over it. People get hyped over games for different reasons, and I guess maybe the stuff people got excited about that now isn't in the game wasn't on your radar, but it certainly was for others.

Yet you are here telling people to chill over these "nit picks" just because they aren't an issue to you.
 

v1oz

Member
Apr 11, 2010
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Oof.

Maybe a group of 10 people shouldn't promise so much. To be fair, what did the fans expect by a team of only 10 people?
Correct me if I'm wrong about the team size.

They said they were using brand new technology to procedurally generate infinite content, which is why they claimed they would achieve grand things with a relatively small team.
 

Pestilence11

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Feb 2, 2012
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I've been having a great time with the game. These little nit picks don't ruin the overall experience. Many of the features I'm sure will be added with patches eventually.

A lot of you need to chill.

I'm enjoying the game too, probably logged 40 hours. That doesn't mean I don't want the game as it was shown/talked about originally, because guess what? It's a better version of NMS.
 

OuterLimits

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Apr 25, 2014
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The fact that people still defend him and say that they got "exactly what we expected" and that it's our fault that we dig too much into this and make up our own fantasies about the game. I have a friend who says that it's my fault that I think the game underdelivered because he likes it and that means that the game is fine.

"I love the game so you are wrong!" basically.

I'm enjoying the game but it's pretty obvious to me that Sean was rather deceptive about it. He actually sat talking with freaking Colbert and made shit up. Oh, you only know what you look like by seeing another player. This wasn't just a one time statement either. He repeated the multiplayer aspect frequently, and even used Journey as a comparison.

He also was rather critical of other space games for being "fake" and using a skybox and then proceeds to make up even more shit about his game. Then it turns out each star is a skybox, and the planets don't rotate even. This is even more obnoxious in my opinion. Don't be critical and then do the exact same thing.

The overall foundation of the game is actually fairly good. He is clearly a very talented individual. It's unfortunate that Sean felt the need to exaggerate constantly. I realize some gamers overhyped it as well, but it's hard to really blame them when Sean was making up stuff.
 

travisbickle

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Mar 26, 2006
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They said they were using brand new technology to procedurally generate infinite content, which is why they claimed they would achieve grand things with a relatively small team.


No they didn't. Sean said they are using lots of known techniques all in one game that he thought hadn't been done before. He did say they had a new technique for all assets to be created individually but understanding what other assets are around them, which he thought was "quite smart".

Man, some people really thought there was going to be a universe on a disc that could fool astronauts.
 
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There has been a tone of "If you're not with us, you're against us" with a lot of the posters. Some can't understand how you could not be outraged unless you're a corporate apologist defending this lying traitor. I don't think I could ever get so emotionally invested to feel wronged or screwed over on this level, nor resort to joining a week-plus long campaign to abuse or defend said developer. Every time that I've stated that I thought the campaign was overblown, I've gotten responded to with the "how can you defend this?" line too. And yes, this is a campaign/crusade against HG at this point whether a bunch of people throwing personal insults at someone they don't know think so or not.

The biggest insult is the years of claims he made that all ended up being lies. He is not more important than you or I so he doesn't get a free pass to do these things. The problem I am having at this point is people trying to defend the indefensible. There are hours of video footage of him lying. There are years worth of Twitter/social media archives where he promised, promised, dragged other devs through the mud, made some more promises, etc, etc. Yet you choose to say someone like ME is the problem. I didn't ask him to lie to millions of people on national television nor did I ask him to lie the day before he released his game to the public. I also did not hide in a hole when all of the backlash came to fruition.

The guy is a liar. The people directly involved all knew he was lying from the start yet continued to support and push his marketing anyway. I feel bad for his family and friends... How do you continue supporting someone who is willing to lie to millions of people over years and years and then ignore his fanbase when shit hits the fan?

I almost have more respect for Molyneux because at least he confronted the media after all of his antics.

No they didn't. Sean said they are using lots of known techniques all in one game that he thought hadn't been done before. He did say they had a new technique for all assets to be created individually but understanding what other assets are around them, which he thought was "quite smart".

Man, some people really thought there was going to be a universe on a disc that could fool astronauts.

No he didn't, lol. He said he had created a superformula that no one had ever used before to "...procedurally generate infinite content, which is why they claimed they would achieve grand things..." He then backed out of this statement right before the game came out, lol.

"Procedurally-generated universe

A typical planet in No Man's Sky includes procedurally-generated flora and fauna for the player to discover and observe.
The main feature of No Man's Sky is that its virtual universe, including the stars, planets, lifeforms, ecosystems, and the behaviour of the space-bound factions, is created through procedural generation using deterministic algorithms and random number generators. A single seed number is used to create these features via mathematical computation, thus eliminating the need to create each of these features by hand. This enables the game to have a massively open nature: Hello Games has estimated that with their 64-bit seed number, their virtual universe includes over 18 quintillion planets.[17]"

This generation system can create a variety of planet ecosystems, including differing rotational periods, the end-effects of natural erosion, and behavioural cycles for the creatures.[10][19][20][21] The amount of life on planets are factored based on their distance from their local sun, with planets far outside the habitable zone typically being barren of life.[10] Not all stars have habitable planets, but still offer potential opportunities for resources to the player if they can survive its inhospitable atmosphere.[11] The developers aimed for a 90–10 rule, with around 90% of the planets being uninhabitable, and of the 10% that do support life, 90% of those only include mundane lifeforms, making the planets that thrive with a vivid ecosystem rare.[22]

Almost the entire Wikipedia page is one big lie... One Man's Lies... The only thing missing was the light refraction nonsense he promised, lol. At this point, no one is even using facts to defend him, lol.

I think it is pretty clear at this point that none of them will be held accountable for anything. This guy must be laughing his head off at this point...
 

Kacho

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Feb 22, 2011
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You wouldn't be able to tell if you pulsed or warped anyway...

This one is a hard choice. There seems to be a lot of hate. But the ot makes it look fun. Hmm...

Decisions.

Oh it's fun enough for what it is. People are just upset that it's lacking in many areas and some promoted features are missing.
 
Sep 1, 2015
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Oh it's fun enough for what it is. People are just upset that it's lacking in many areas and some promoted features are missing.

See, that is the thing. It is not because promoted features are missing that people are upset. People are upset because Sean Murray literally lied to their faces for years all while dragging other developers through the mud. The game is ok, and I will admit that much, but Sean has zero integrity and that is the issue here. The game is literally not the same thing he actually talked about it interviews.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
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Where do I defend the game or the developer?
This thread is rife with spiteful, personal attacks on Sean Murray mostly based on a narrative that he was lying i.e. knew better at the time he spoke. Which is a curious claim when cutting features for the final release is a thing as old as complex simulation games.

He is a liar. February 2016:

" “The physics of every other game—it’s faked,” the chief architect Sean Murray explained. “When you’re on a planet, you’re surrounded by a skybox—a cube that someone has painted stars or clouds onto. If there is a day to night cycle, it happens because they are slowly transitioning between a series of different boxes.” The skybox is also a barrier beyond which the player can never pass. The stars are merely points of light. In No Man’s Sky however, every star is a place that you can go. The universe is infinite"

"Our day to night cycle is happening because the planet is rotating on its axis as it spins around the sun. There is real physics to that. We have people that will fly down from a space station onto a planet and when they fly back up, the station isn't there anymore; the planet has rotated."

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/02/artificial-universe-no-mans-sky/463308/



You're honestly suggesting exploration isn't a key pillar of the game?

I can't comment on your other points as you've reconstructed a completely incomprehensible version of them. Until you understand them, I can't elaborate further.

Fair play, I attacked you, you attacked me back. Now let's focus on the arguments, shall we?

Exploration is a part of the game, yes, but it can't be done without dedicating a bigger amount of time for gathering resources and surviving. So calling it an exploration game is like calling Assassin's Creed games exploration/touristic games.And in AC you can actually sometimes just wander around for ever without dying/being stopped by the lack of resources.

It's not a space sim because it doesn't simulate space in any of its components. It doesn't have more than one galaxy at the same time. It doesn't have more than one star system at the same time. It doesn't have stars, orbits, rotating planets, climate, fauna and flora depending on the distance from the stars. It's at most a random planet sim.

I hope it's clear enough for you this time.
 

Raven77

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Jul 4, 2012
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So if I tell you I'm making a game where you can catch 1,000 Pokemon and I even do an interview the day before it comes out saying, sure, there will definitely be 1,000 of them-- only for you to find out at launch that there are only 3, am I a liar? Or can I still say "Oh, things change. Games are hard"?


A better example would be if the game ended up having 700 Pokemon. They delivered on the main big premise along with many other things. They failed to deliver on many other minor to average sized things.
 

inky

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Yeah. There's no real sense or mechanics to each star system. Distance from star doesn't affect planet conditions. (Unless I'm wrong about that part.) Planets don't rotate, and day/night cycle on them is truly fake, not matching the position of the sun as seen from space. Moons don't orbit planets and hang in one spot.

Even as a static diorama, it doesn't evoke a real solar system. It appears to all be arranged so that you always see the perfect artistic image of three planets hanging in space, and from a planet's surface, always see the cover shot of a couple of planets peeking over the horizon. Which is funny, because by making it so generic it removes the special feeling of catching sight of such a vista.

That sounds terrible.

And yes, from what I've seen, it all looks so generic. The game defeats its own sense of scale and adventure with its own basic design; looks like stations/monoliths/aliens are as hard to find as is a Starbucks or 7/11 in a random walk through town. So much for "undiscovered" planets or a "space sim". Looks like neither of those basic claims holds true.