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RedGamingTech: "Why Series X is having performance problems."

dvdvideo

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Series X has performance issues? Nice thread title, pretty much clickbait. Every console has some games that do better than others, back to atari 2600. There's nothing inherently wrong with xbox or ps5 - both are actually great sets of next gen hardware, neither of which have really shown anything that blows away the xbox one x or ps4 pro, its more incremental.
 
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MrFunSocks

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The responses to this in here are hilarious, seeing as though RGT were the bastions of truth and insider knowledge just very recently when what they were saying painted Sony and the PS5 in a good light lol. Now all of a sudden they don’t know what they’re talking about and shouldn’t be listened to.
 

Edgelord79

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The responses to this in here are hilarious, seeing as though RGT were the bastions of truth and insider knowledge just very recently when what they were saying painted Sony and the PS5 in a good light lol. Now all of a sudden they don’t know what they’re talking about and shouldn’t be listened to.
Mostly everything is narrative driven on forums consisting of fans of specific products.
 

Shmunter

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My biggest concern is things being held back. I still cannot accept the fact Watchdogs Legion has no 60fps mode. It feels artificially imposed.
 

lepermessiah

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Shelookdlvl18

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Mostly everything is narrative driven on forums consisting of fans of specific products.

Exactly.

Part of the entertainment is watching it all unfold, and having a good idea of how it will go going forward. Watching the narrative changes, the flip flops, etc...

You don't need a crystal ball to see how this is going to go. A quick Google search of AC Unity XB1 vs PS4 will tell you all you need to know.
 

longdi

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30% win over ps5 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Be humble for fuck sake . After all your shit talking about ps5 and the seen shit result of xsx vs ps5, you guys don't ever learn to be humble .
30% really? I mean do you honestly believe that or did you just poop out that number just to get a response? If sincere you will be having a rough time as a Series X owner if that is your expectations. Even 15% will not be guaranteed in every situation. Honestly 15% is probably best case scenerio in real world performance gap.
Seriously dude, no disrespect but do you like getting fucked up or something, ARE you like one of those Gimp guys that loves a good seeing too.

I just don't get you, for months you spoke shit, the chickens have come home to roost and yet your still here carrying on with your bullshit.

Half the extreme xbox people have fled like cowards, but your still hear, promoting phil spencers spin, maybe its just time to say sorry and that you were wrong and then move on so we can all get along again.

its ok to be wrong about things. no one will remember in a month or two but this constant denial.

yes count your chickens hatching from launch titles.

besides devtools, we shall see once games start moving away from jaguar cores to hammering the zen2 and contention with bandwith and power limits.

15-30% seems fair and delicious crows. 🤷‍♀️
 

Slashinghook

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And it’s a good thing. I‘d rather have a more advanced console with all HDMI 2.1 features and all RDNA 2.0 and A LITTLE worse performing launch games than the other way around. Those consoles are going to stay here for 7 years and only Xbox will support all RDNA 2.0 features. When those games arrive the difference will be big.
 

Dave_at_Home

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And it’s a good thing. I‘d rather have a more advanced console with all HDMI 2.1 features and all RDNA 2.0 and A LITTLE worse performing launch games than the other way around. Those consoles are going to stay here for 7 years and only Xbox will support all RDNA 2.0 features. When those games arrive the difference will be big.
It's no shocker PS5 doesn't support DirectX 12 features. What else isn't a shocker are the patents you can find (there's literally been a thread about this) with Sony utilizing the same techniques but specific for PS5. So no, there will be no big difference.

Careful with that Kool-Aid. That's how you'll lose a foot.
 

SegaSnatcher

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Series X has performance issues? Nice thread title, pretty much clickbait. Every console has some games that do better than others, back to atari 2600. There's nothing inherently wrong with xbox or ps5 - both are actually great sets of next gen hardware, neither of which have really shown anything that blows away the xbox one x or ps4 pro, its more incremental.

Not clickbait at all. Series X is objectively underperforming compared to the PS5 in a lot of multiplat games. Also, my thread title is literally the title of the video I posted. The point is the Series X shouldn't be performing as badly as it has if we take the on paper specs into consideration, so something is clearly up and Paul was simply giving his take.
 
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sircaw

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yes count your chickens hatching from launch titles.

besides devtools, we shall see once games start moving away from jaguar cores to hammering the zen2 and contention with bandwith and power limits.

15-30% seems fair and delicious crows. 🤷‍♀️

The chickens have hatched dude, your getting ridiculous now, why don't you just say, " you just wait for next-generation". How long must we wait for new tools? 6 months 2 years? give us a deadline, 5 years?

Just eat your crow, you got flattened.

Your up the khyber without a paddle, in fact, there is no canoe too,
 
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Dave_at_Home

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yes count your chickens hatching from launch titles.

besides devtools, we shall see once games start moving away from jaguar cores to hammering the zen2 and contention with bandwith and power limits.

15-30% seems fair and delicious crows. 🤷‍♀️
I remember the first wave of PS4/Xbox One cross-gen games and not much changing in terms of performance between the two once they moved on from PS3/360 era. Just saying.
 
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Dave_at_Home

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15% I can give you in some cases, but 30% doesn't make any sense.
I posted this in a different thread but I felt it was appropriate here too. I think at this point even if it's really the tools, then what? They get everything "tightened up" and are on par with PS5? Or best case scenario maybe have a 5%-8%, or even 10% performance advantage? Would that be considered a win?

The narrative that the Series X is somehow vastly more powerful than PS5 has be shattered. It literally doesn't matter if they get everything firing on all cylinders and somehow take a very minor performance crown from here on out. For the vast majority, they'll look at the games and say to themselves that it's too close to call and PlayStation has better first-party support. I still think Series X is a great system, but fuck did they ever trip over themselves and fall on their face with this power narrative.

Speaking of tools, what about PS5? What happens if third-party developers really utilize PS5's SSD and I/O? What happens if they start digging into the fully programable geometry engine? For all the talk of tools, I don't hear anyone talking about that. This ain't over.
 

quest

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I posted this in a different thread but I felt it was appropriate here too. I think at this point even if it's really the tools, then what? They get everything "tightened up" and are on par with PS5? Or best case scenario maybe have a 5%-8%, or even 10% performance advantage? Would that be considered a win?

The narrative that the Series X is somehow vastly more powerful than PS5 has be shattered. It literally doesn't matter if they get everything firing on all cylinders and somehow take a very minor performance crown from here on out. For the vast majority, they'll look at the games and say to themselves that it's too close to call and PlayStation has better first-party support. I still think Series X is a great system, but fuck did they ever trip over themselves and fall on their face with this power narrative.

Speaking of tools, what about PS5? What happens if third-party developers really utilize PS5's SSD and I/O? What happens if they start digging into the fully programable geometry engine? For all the talk of tools, I don't hear anyone talking about that. This ain't over.
They won't direct storage will be the industry standard. They are not going to make games only the PS5 can do. They will spec around the series x and PC on storage. Sure the PS5 will load games faster have a little less pop in or less lod issues but they won't take advantage of the Sony io as it is the outlier. Same with the geometry engine. They will build around the mesh shader standard since everything will support them and leave the extra tricks on the table no one supports. Microsoft going through growing pains on the GDk with huge long term benefits for every third party and thier first party. Something needed to get more developers time on thier platform since Sony is so far a head in sales and the Microsoft platforms are at the it works fuck it ship it stage as we seen with one x and series x games. When developers spend most of their time fine tuning for the Sony platforms we see the results in the pro beating the one x and terrible series x performance.
 
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Dave_at_Home

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They won't direct storage will be the industry standard. They are not going to make games only the PS5 can do. They will spec around the series x and PC on storage. Sure the PS5 will load games faster have a little less pop in or less lod issues but they won't take advantage of the Sony io as it is the outlier. Same with the geometry engine. They will build around the mesh shader standard since everything will support them and leave the extra tricks on the table no one supports. Microsoft going through growing pains on the GDk with huge long term benefits for every third party and thier first party. Something needed to get more developers time on thier platform since Sony is so far a head in sales and the Microsoft platforms are at the it works fuck it ship it stage as we seen with one x and series x games. When developers spend most of their time fine tuning for the Sony platforms we see the results in the pro beating the one x and terrible series x performance.
I do agree that the Series X SSD performance may be the standard with PS5 still having a leg up. As for the geometry engine, according to redgamingtech, Sony has sent demos to developers showcasing the benefits of utilization. Wouldn't surprise me if Sony has solid tools lined up for full programmability. After all, with the sales of the PS5 outpacing PS4 in the same early lifecycle, plenty of third-party developers could make utilization of those things a priority if they want PS5 as the lead platform.
 

Bogroll

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I posted this in a different thread but I felt it was appropriate here too. I think at this point even if it's really the tools, then what? They get everything "tightened up" and are on par with PS5? Or best case scenario maybe have a 5%-8%, or even 10% performance advantage? Would that be considered a win?

The narrative that the Series X is somehow vastly more powerful than PS5 has be shattered. It literally doesn't matter if they get everything firing on all cylinders and somehow take a very minor performance crown from here on out. For the vast majority, they'll look at the games and say to themselves that it's too close to call and PlayStation has better first-party support. I still think Series X is a great system, but fuck did they ever trip over themselves and fall on their face with this power narrative.

Speaking of tools, what about PS5? What happens if third-party developers really utilize PS5's SSD and I/O? What happens if they start digging into the fully programable geometry engine? For all the talk of tools, I don't hear anyone talking about that. This ain't over.
I have been told and educated on here and by NXGamer videos that TF is not everthing. PS5 has 20 whatever % faster fill rate etc and there won't be much in the difference of games. So yes a 1% and up advantge to Xbox would be a win.
 
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I have been told and educated on here and by NXGamer videos that TF is not everthing. PS5 has 20 whatever % faster fill rate etc and there won't be much in the difference of games. So yes a 1% and up advantge to Xbox would be a win.

True but with the way Microsoft marketed the system people are not expecting a delta of around 5%. Realistically it should be in the 20%-30% range with the extremists expecting 50%.
 

freefornow

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Your up the khyber without a paddle, in fact, there is no canoe too,
Well, technically, neither a canoe or paddle would be any way helpful in the Khyber Pass.
Unless said canoe and paddle were on the roof racks of a car.

Now, Shit Creek would be totally appropriate analogy.
 
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dvdvideo

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Not clickbait at all. Series X is objectively underperforming compared to the PS5 in a lot of multiplat games. Also, my thread title is literally the title of the video I posted. The point is the Series X shouldn't be performing as badly as it has if we take the on paper specs into consideration, so something is clearly up and Paul was simply giving his take.

Just because its the title of the video, doesn't mean its not clickbait, youtube proves that every day a thousand times. The series X isn't "performing badly" at all. Its certainly not underpergorming vs the ps5, considering the multiplatfirm games are very similar to this point. What, we are supposed to be surprised that like 3 multiplaform games rushed out for launch aren't that optimized? Doesn't really prove anything.
 

Bogroll

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True but with the way Microsoft marketed the system people are not expecting a delta of around 5%. Realistically it should be in the 20%-30% range with the extremists expecting 50%.
So are you agreeing TF arn't everything but then saying it should be 20-30% ? I'm a little confused.
I thought 20-30% is a bit extreme even before they came out.

Edit No I never misread you.
 
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longdi

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The chickens have hatched dude, your getting ridiculous now, why don't you just say, " you just wait for next-generation". How long must we wait for new tools? 6 months 2 years? give us a deadline, 5 years?

Just eat your crow, you got flattened.

Your up the khyber without a paddle, in fact, there is no canoe too,
I remember the first wave of PS4/Xbox One cross-gen games and not much changing in terms of performance between the two once they moved on from PS3/360 era. Just saying.

I dont remember the same with PS2 and PS3 though.
There are more eggs to hatch, the boat hasnt left. 🤷‍♀️
 

Agnostic2020

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yes count your chickens hatching from launch titles.

besides devtools, we shall see once games start moving away from jaguar cores to hammering the zen2 and contention with bandwith and power limits.

15-30% seems fair and delicious crows. 🤷‍♀️
Lol well u r eating ur crows and I m loving it . Just few months ago u were counting ur chicken on how much better xsx gonna be and ps5 was gonna be so bad and down clock and flexible clock was do bad yet it didn't turn out that way . Sony knows their shit. Sorry bud it didn't go like u wanted . 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️😅
 
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So are you agreeing TF arn't everything but then saying it should be 20-30% ? I'm a little confused.
I thought 20-30% is a bit extreme even before they came out.

Edit No I never misread you.

Alot of people based their expectations on the paper specifications. But then the paper specifications don't necessarily translate to real world peformance.

The 20%-30% is what many expect from the XSX if everything works out on paper. The paper specifications are basically used to market the system even though the final results can be different.

I'll admit that these comparisons have me pretty confused because they are the opposite of what I was expecting.
 
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Cato

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Did they delay Halo Infinite too early?
Maybe if they just waited for tools they could launch it?
 

The_Mike

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Series X has performance issues? Nice thread title, pretty much clickbait. Every console has some games that do better than others, back to atari 2600. There's nothing inherently wrong with xbox or ps5 - both are actually great sets of next gen hardware, neither of which have really shown anything that blows away the xbox one x or ps4 pro, its more incremental.

This could've be the case if it wasn't so different graphic wise. These backlights on the car does look worse on XSX compared to any xbox one game, so it does seem odd. Would be weird to see uglier games on XSX compared to one.

Also, didn't Microsoft invest in this game or were they just close partners or something?

My biggest concern is things being held back. I still cannot accept the fact Watchdogs Legion has no 60fps mode. It feels artificially imposed.

That's a choice from the devs. Graphic over framerate.
 

anothertech

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Sony have the better tools because they took COVID seriously and planned ahead for contingencies, whereas MS made jokes on Twitter and now their chickens are coming home to roost.

In all seriousness, I'm fairly sure the performance delta will narrow in a few months and both consoles will perform very similarly in third party games.
They already behave similarly.

Xbox just worse
 

Almanac

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Also, didn't Microsoft invest in this game or were they just close partners or something?

I guess that's the tragical side of this situation. Assassin Creed and especially Dirt 5 were very prominently placed within the MS marketing strategy. The game which was pushed by Sony turned out to be the best multiplatform title for Xbox so far.

My take away from all of this: Developers are indeed impartial. They do whatever they can to make the best version possible. That's a good thing for everybody.
 

clintar

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Haha, so now RGT is not talking about secret sauces and caches, he becomes non-reliable and empty vessal! :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_ok:

like every core gamers know, GDK/XDK is far behind. Sony SDK was built to get PS5 games up in a month, half the time of PS1 and PS4!
And what was GDK/XDK built for? Or has it just not been built yet?
 
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Verydeadpool

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Starting to see why ms buys companies now to butter Xbox fans up with false hope and ammo
Sadly proof is Sony will always come on top they did when ms got bungie and others .

I can't wait to see what happens next ms

Wonder who going to take Phil Spencer job in the end best not be Todd Howard lol be fucked from day one
 

geordiemp

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Alot of people based their expectations on the paper specifications. But then the paper specifications don't necessarily translate to real world peformance.

The 20%-30% is what many expect from the XSX if everything works out on paper. The paper specifications are basically used to market the system even though the final results can be different.

I'll admit that these comparisons have me pretty confused because they are the opposite of what I was expecting.

Not really, if everything worked out on paper I expected about 5 % in favour of XSX 3 months ago or so close nobody cares, and I said it enough times lol. There is more to specs than TF.
 

Topher70

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sinnergy

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Did NXGamer just said in his compare video Series X had some settings higher in A-C like tessellated meshes .. and that’s why it tears more .. I watched the whole video .

Red tech confirmed tooling rewrite problems on Xbox.
if you do a rewrite of your tooling performance will suffer at the start but it’s a marathon not a sprint , so take the loss and move on , you will benefit in the future of this rewrite and SDKs can in much later ..

every programmer knows if you refactor something and rebuild , that it’s needed and will benefit in the future.. a small percentage here on Gaf will understand .
So rewriting is a good thing imo, but now MS is kinda in a rough spot for the next 6 months - year.
 
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TheDreadLord

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We assume that every single developer is a wiz on what it is doing. If the tools have changed that much it is very possible that they have done something wrong or are not using the tools as intended. We need to wait the first true next-gen games to drawn any conclusion. Anything else is pure speculation.
 

Agnostic2020

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We assume that every single developer is a wiz on what it is doing. If the tools have changed that much it is very possible that they have done something wrong or are not using the tools as intended. We need to wait the first true next-gen games to drawn any conclusion. Anything else is pure speculation.
No one has to wait for anything on PS side . They know their things figured out and won't make their base wait endlessly . If only xbox fans would demand the same instead of damage controlling things would have been better for them
 

TheDreadLord

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No one has to wait for anything on PS side . They know their things figured out and won't make their base wait endlessly . If only xbox fans would demand the same instead of damage controlling things would have been better for them
It was said that the PS5 tools are similar to PS4 and for the XS they were significantly different. Therefore, the learning curve is probably steeper for the XS. Also, given that most of the x-gen games are made with PS4 as base...
 
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Pallas

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Sheesh some of you need a break from GAF. Chill out, go take a peaceful walk outside or something but on topic, if it is the devkits/development tools being old/obsolete then we should see better performance from the XSX in the future as development tools mature and devs get more familiar with them.

Sony was ahead/more prepared and if past rumors are any indication they started developing their next gen console before Microsoft.
 

sinnergy

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It was said that the PS5 tools are similar to PS4 and for the XS they were significantly different. Therefore, the learning curve is probably steeper for the XS. Also, given that most of the x-gen games are made with PS4 as base...
Yeah, they just run on PS5, with functions that can be turned on, what also helps is 36 CUs in both the PRO and PS5, we have to see how this all goes in the future with 52 CUS VS 36 CUS. In 4 years time.
 
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kuncol02

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Sony have the better tools because they took COVID seriously and planned ahead for contingencies
Sony devkits were send to devs few months earlier. That also means that tools and SDK had few months earlier schedule. Enough to finish them just before Covid hit.
 

Agnostic2020

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Yeah, they just run on PS5, with functions that can be turned on, what also helps is 36 CUs in both the PRO and PS5, we have to see how this all goes in the future with 52 CUS VS 36 CUS. In 4 years time.
At that time ps5 pro would be out and xsx2 no one would care about xsx and ps5.
 
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