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Render unto Sony that which is Sony's, and unto indies that which are indies. Amen.

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shinobi602

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Sep 28, 2010
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Update #1:

Sounds like a misunderstanding.

I'm NOT going to weigh in on Mr Olick (whoever he is), but this is not the case in my experience.

UNLESS Sony are funding you, there is NO right/reason for ownership/IP transfer, and has NEVER happened to me EVER.

So, I'm sorry, this just hasn't been my experience at all!

RCR dev:



more:



Above was retweeted by Shane Bettenhausen who works for SCEA

No. To me it reads like any inventions regarding the development tools for the PS4 are property of SCE. It's actually standard contractual obligation for any employee (I have such a clause at my work).

Much ado about nothing.



Back in the day id used to license their engine for free or very cheap. Their policy was that you could edit it in any way that you want but whatever improvements you came up with id owned and could use on future versions of the engine. This was in place when half life was made.



The wording in this sounds similar. What i read is that if you "invent" something in terms of development on a ps4 dev kit that Sony can then incorporate it into their dev kit. I would be shocked if that wasn't true of Microsoft and nintendo also (or the unreal engine for that matter) . I don't believe this has anything to do with controlling IPs.


I'll ask around.

Seriously?

We're making GAMES for PS4 and not one has a clause about ownership transferring to SCEA OR SCEE.

This is NOT the case, the only thing that IS owned by Sony, which is the same as Microsoft and Nintendo are the SDK' and the hardware, which is why most companies GIVE it away, so developers aren't paying for something they NEVER own.

------------------------------

He was an Advisory Board Member for Sony itself. Apparently also used to work for Naughty Dog and id Software.

Works for Red 5 Studios now: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=2754079&authType=name&authToken=tLjN&trk=prof-pat-cc-name

Update: Some other devs chime in denying:

RCR dev:



more:



Above was retweeted by Shane Bettenhausen who works for SCEA


Original tweets:










https://twitter.com/JonOlick
 

Spazznid

Member
Aug 6, 2011
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Wow, that sucks.

:::EDIT:::

So it was all a misunderstanding, and we can go back to praising Sony...


:D
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Sep 29, 2011
27,239
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Strange that this is the first and only indie who came forward with this. This should be rubbing a lot of other developers the wrong way.

Interested in how this develops.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
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Hiding the nasty bits in fine prints and NDAs. Not surprising coming from Sony, or any indie-pandering corporation really.
 

Phire Phox

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Dec 20, 2012
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It seems Microsoft is going uphill and Sony beginning to go downhill. Oh, how the tides are turning.
 

Bedlam

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Oct 4, 2011
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Can someone clarify what that means? What I get from this is that Sony owns everything that you choose to release on PS4 ... that can't be right. Right?
 

HaRyu

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Nov 7, 2007
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I can't tell from the tweets but is it ownership of the IP, or ownership of the PS3/PS4/whatever build?

Yeah, cant be complete ownership, otherwise, I dont see how indies would be able to publish to consoles other than PS4.
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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How would that even work for multiplatform games ? Like when the Oddworld team makes their port on PS4, does it give Sony the ownership of the Oddworld characters ? Or is it only for new content ?
It seems too strange/restructive to be true.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
13,063
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Sounds like someone not proficient in legalese kicking up a stink. These sorts of things are over almost all platforms.

I remember dancing around signing something once that actually had the phrasing "to be broadcast on Earth, throughout the known galaxy, and universe beyond" with no hint of humour or irony behind it.
 

Lothars

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Strange that this is the first and only indie who came forward with this. This should be rubbing a lot of other developers the wrong way.

Interested in how this develops.
Yeah that's the thing I find strange if he's the only one that brought it up and it hasn't been mentioned previously from any other dev.
 

Dibbz

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Oct 6, 2007
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How can they do that? That's crazy if Sony expect anything you make for the console to belong to them.
 

davidbloop

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Jul 19, 2013
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All Next Gen Materials, all inventions and developments that utilize or incorporate ^ and any derivatives of ^ are the sole property of SCEA

And what exactly was removed with the ^ parts


It could have said anything

"all inventions and developments that utilize or incorporate Ken Kutaragi's mum and any derivatives of Ken Kutaragi's mum are the sole property of SCEA"



I wonder why he removed those parts
 

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
May 14, 2013
4,965
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Not sure exactly what this means in practice but you would have thought we would have heard more about it if its really bad.
 

Alucrid

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May 30, 2009
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Sounds like someone not proficient in legalese kicking up a stink. These sorts of things are over almost all platforms.

I remember dancing around signing something once that actually had the phrasing "on Earth and throughout the known galaxy and universe" with no hint of humour or irony behind it.
Hold on let me ask my lawyer.
 

CALS

Neo Member
Jun 9, 2013
52
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What does that really mean? They own the code once it hits Sony's system?

How does it limit the dev and publisher?
 

Skeff

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Jun 2, 2013
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I don't think this is at it seems, as if it was every indie game on PS4 would be a permanent exclusive as Sony would own it. Pretty sure there are a lot of multiplat indie games on ps4.
 

rouken

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Dec 21, 2011
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maybe other indies aren't saying a thing because Sony gave them some benefits to put their game on PS4 like free marketing, or budgets and stuff.
 

Douche McBaggins The 3rd

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2011
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It seems Microsoft is going uphill and Sony beginning to go downhill. Oh, how the tides are turning.

It's easy to go uphill when you're at the absolute bottom and it's easy to go downhill when you reach a zenith high.

We still need more stuff to come out before we can make a real appraisal on this. We need more indies to come forth. Any willing to?
 
Jun 5, 2013
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Surely this is with regards to the hardware Sony "loaned" to him? It would be a very strange clause to have in an indie contract, especially when other indies are developing multi-platform games.

Edit: woah read it wrong. Could it mean Sony owns it for the Playstation release?
 

brandnew

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Sep 14, 2012
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Strange that this is the first and only indie who came forward with this. This should be rubbing a lot of other developers the wrong way.

Interested in how this develops.

Especially when outspoken devs have talked about how great it is working with them, like Jon Blow. I would think if this was a huge issue, someone would have said something.

I can't tell from the tweets but is it ownership of the IP, or ownership of the PS3/PS4/whatever build?

I'm wondering this as well. From the tweets, it seems like Sony is only concerned about hardware related things, not IP. In that case, I wonder why this is such a huge problem (from ignoarance, not because I think it isn't a big deal).
 

Capital_Five

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Aug 27, 2009
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What? I don't understand what this means. Would Johnathan Blow and Jake Kazdall and everyone else publishing on Sony really overlook this, or not care? If that's the case I'm very curious what's really going on behind the scenes here.
 

Kenshin001

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Feb 2, 2010
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And what exactly was removed with the ^ parts


It could have said anything

"all inventions and developments that utilize or incorporate Ken Kutaragi's mum and any derivatives of Ken Kutaragi's mum are the sole property of SCEA"



I wonder why he removed those parts

I wonder whay his comments were removed from the Edge article about indies at the request of Sony's lawyers?
 
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