Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline

Apr 15, 2018
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I want to bring attention to this because nobody really touched on it. It is hilarious that they actually attempted to gaslight conservatives questioning the more ludicrous parts of the FAQ by claiming it was a fake document. They took the document down on their own webpage but you can find cached versions of it and it was real and contained all of the things people found loony. To then make fun of people for pushing fake news by reporting on their actual embarrassing document that they found so embarrassing that they took down it is grade A cowfarts.
I missed that. They put the document up, caught heat for it, and are now pretending that they never released it.

It's fucking incredible. 😂
 
Dec 3, 2013
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I want to bring attention to this because nobody really touched on it. It is hilarious that they actually attempted to gaslight conservatives questioning the more ludicrous parts of the FAQ by claiming it was a fake document. They took the document down on their own webpage but you can find cached versions of it and it was real and contained all of the things people found loony. To then make fun of people for pushing fake news by reporting on their actual embarrassing document that they found so embarrassing that they took down it is grade A cowfarts.
I missed that. They put the document up, caught heat for it, and are now pretending that they never released it.

It's fucking incredible. 😂
Exactly. We live in clownworld.
 
Likes: LMJ

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Jun 7, 2004
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Enjoyed Ross Douthat's column on this subject in the NYT:

The first major policy intervention from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the noted social-media personality and future dictator-for-life of the Americas (I believe she’s also a congresswoman of some sort), is a quite-extraordinary document: a blueprint for fighting climate change that manages to confirm every conservative critique of liberal environmental activism, every Republican suspicion of what global-warming alarm is really all about.​
The core conservative suspicion is that when liberals talk about the dire threat of global warming, they’re actually seizing opportunistically on the issue to justify, well, #fullsocialism — the seizure of the economy’s commanding heights in order to implement the most left-wing possible agenda.​
A conventional liberal, up until now, would dismiss that belief as simply paranoid, the product of Fox News feedback loops and the science-denying fever swamps. But the Green New Deal that Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Senator Edward Markey are sponsoring — and that four leading Democratic contenders for the presidency have already endorsed — responds by saying: Yes, that’s absolutely correct.
 
Aug 30, 2018
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Don't worry. Cocaine Mitch has promised to bring it to a full vote in the Senate, to get everyone on record.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...n-new-deal-so-all-lawmakers-can-go-on-record/
This is a great move. It'll be interesting to see what the Presidential hopefuls like Booker and Harris do. They've given it a verbal vote of confidence, but will they actually vote for it? It's a no win situation, vote against it and turn the progressive against you, vote for it and turn middle America against you.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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This document is a wake up call to anyone paying attention. A nation that willfully undertook such stupidity would destroy its economy, experience hyper inflation, destroy its power infrastructure, and starve to death. She promotes policy that would kill millions and calls herself the moral one. And she'd call me racist because I'd ask how she plans to pay for it.
Fantastic post overall, but this in particular needs to be highlighted - she has shown herself to be full Stalinist at this point. What is the difference between her Ten Year Plan and the infamous Five Year Plans?
 
Oct 1, 2006
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Nov 23, 2010
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Well, as long as we agree the resolution would be unaffordable and would cripple the economy and "small things" like that.
I haven't got up to speed on this green deal stuff but the media says it's unrealistic by 2030 based off what I see on TV.

In any event, what's unaffordable about it?

People are getting sick, relocating and losing money as we speak due to global warming. Wildlife is going extinct at a rapid rate. Many more people will die and be under financial duress if something dramatic doesn't happen.

I wish Republicans and Pres. Trump would think big about the climate change stuff like the tax cut. Because the world has basically screwed itself. The question is how bad is it going to get...
 
Feb 25, 2017
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I haven't got up to speed on this green deal stuff but the media says it's unrealistic by 2030 based off what I see on TV.

In any event, what's unaffordable about it?

People are getting sick, relocating and losing money as we speak due to global warming. Wildlife is going extinct at a rapid rate. Many more people will die and be under financial duress if something dramatic doesn't happen.

I wish Republicans and Pres. Trump would think big about the climate change stuff like the tax cut. Because the world has basically screwed itself. The question is how bad is it going to get...
The things you are describing sounds more like symptoms of overpopulation and pollution than global warming.

I think many of the radical left are confusing, perhaps intentionally, climate change with pollution. Everyone hate pollution, from plastic waste in the ocean, to smog air, to trash and litter in settled and unsettled lands. Climate change caused by human is not a universally agreed upon theory, there are many other competing theories that are as plausible and convincing depending on who and where you ask. Just as people living in North Dakota and Alaska probably don't care as much about global warming when they're freezing half the year than someone in California and Arizona getting hotter summers.
 
Aug 30, 2014
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In any event, what's unaffordable about it?
Well, the only thing affordable about it was the paper it was printed on.

The unaffordable things are too many to mention oh, so I'll just go over a few.

Retrofitting or replacing every building in the country.
Getting rid of all fossil fuels.
Providing economic security to those unable or unwilling to work.
Replacing airplanes with high speed trains making air travel unnecessary.
Guaranteeing everyone a job with a wafe that support a family

#15 is pretty pricey:
"
providing all people of the United States with—
(i) high-quality health care;
(ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing;
(iii) economic security; and
(iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature"

Lots of other stuff but most of it is written in spaghetti words.
 
Nov 5, 2013
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I read the document when it came out. The initial one, with all the crazy stuff in it. It's hilarious that they are now walking it back and claiming that it wasn't true. They published it!!!! Secondly, I have to hand it to them. Up until now I thought socialism was the most destructive force in the world to a nation. This plan, in my opinion, would actually destroy our great country and undo 200+ years of work and progress quicker than socialism can.
 
May 12, 2007
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We could pay for this people say. AOC says who cares what it costs, it will make us rich in the long run.

California just scrapped high speed rail from LA to SF, about 77 billion dollars for 250 miles. Using that cost, it would cost 770 billion dollars to build HS rail from NYC to LA. 3/4 of a trillion dollars for to get rid of a couple of airline routes (counting the intermediate cities). Let's look at how many locations can be reached from La Guardia airport. 84 destinations....Let's see what total world GDP is. Let's call it 110 trillion. So we might need somewhere between a quarter and a half of the economic output of the entire world to replace the flights of 1 singular airport with high speed rail. If I was grading this FAQ sheet in high school I would fail it.

This is just the cost of replacing one airport, which relates to one bullet in her faq sheet.
 
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May 12, 2007
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The thing about printing money is it doesn't increase productivity. So even if you printed 100 trillion, you couldn't force a 13 trillion economy to produce more than 13 trillion (fixing prices at preprinting levels). What gives? 100 trillion in the future is worth as much as 13 trillion now. Nothing more is actually produced. In fact actual productivity tends to decrease once inflation rises beyond a certain point.
 
Jan 26, 2009
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Having read this, I think now understand the viewpoint of politicization of climate change. There’s far too many questionable points in the outline to criticize aside from it being wholly realistic. Even the AOC interviews I’ve watched this are in contradiction with one another on how this would be done. It’s a shame when one side is far too passive about this issue and the other recognizes this and pushes an agenda at the same time (why are there things in it that have nothing to do with climate change?)
 
Nov 23, 2010
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The things you are describing sounds more like symptoms of overpopulation and pollution than global warming.

I think many of the radical left are confusing, perhaps intentionally, climate change with pollution. Everyone hate pollution, from plastic waste in the ocean, to smog air, to trash and litter in settled and unsettled lands. Climate change caused by human is not a universally agreed upon theory, there are many other competing theories that are as plausible and convincing depending on who and where you ask. Just as people living in North Dakota and Alaska probably don't care as much about global warming when they're freezing half the year than someone in California and Arizona getting hotter summers.
Don't agree. Also, global warming isn't a hoax because some places are cold with snow. That's silly talk. Based off what I've read, global warming causes and is expected to be correlated with extreme precipitation and weather events. That's what their models predict i.e. record snow, heat, and so on.

Well, the only thing affordable about it was the paper it was printed on.

The unaffordable things are too many to mention oh, so I'll just go over a few.

Retrofitting or replacing every building in the country.
Getting rid of all fossil fuels.
Providing economic security to those unable or unwilling to work.
Replacing airplanes with high speed trains making air travel unnecessary.
Guaranteeing everyone a job with a wafe that support a family

#15 is pretty pricey:
"
providing all people of the United States with—
(i) high-quality health care;
(ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing;
(iii) economic security; and
(iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature"

Lots of other stuff but most of it is written in spaghetti words.
It looks more like you don't want those things as opposed to it being unaffordable. Which is fine I guess. I'd ask questions like:

What is the cost as a percentage of GDP?

Do we expect the govt to cause bottlenecks?

That's some of what I'd be thinking about if I were you. BTW, money is mostly created electronically. Not printed on paper.

At the end of the day, I think it's worth keeping in mind people without economic security aren't free of charge to the public.

Slow public transportation isn't free. In addition, I don't know about getting off of fossil fuels by 2030 but this isn't something you can wait until the last minute to change. A lot of people are likely fucked (going to die/lose money) already because the powers that be made excuses about why they can't do more. The question again is how bad is it going to be...
 
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Sep 4, 2018
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing
 
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Oct 17, 2011
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing
But each time they do it there is a negative effect on the economy. The more money there is out there, the less it's worth. Paper money is just a note, an I.O.U of sorts that's based on the worth a nation has in material. If they are worth their trade or not. Printing so much over time has cause the USD to decrease in value, printing more will continue that. Not to mention our national debt is already over $20 trillion, which doesn't help. Printing more bills doesn't work.
 
Aug 30, 2014
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It looks more like you don't want those things as opposed to it being unaffordable. Which is fine I guess. I'd ask questions like:
No, "it looks more like" you have no idea how much it would cost.

This has already been discussed in this thread. She herself said in the faq that even if every company and billionaire in the country aimed all their resources at it for 10 years, it wouldn't be enough.

Does that sound affordable to you?

You are free to read my other posts in this thread.
 
Likes: Dunki
Aug 30, 2014
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing
 
Mar 12, 2014
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OMG. Now the exact same Senator from MA who co-sponsored it, is crying that bringing it to a vote is sabotage. You cannot make this shit up. The guy literally took time from his job as a Senator to draft and introduce legislation, then cries about sabotage when the Senate agrees to vote on what he introduced.

You know what this country needs - a constitutional amendment barring sitting Senators from running for president within 4 years of the last day they were a Senator. That would go a long way towards ending the nonsense of putting future political aspirations above doing the actual job you swore an oath to perform.
 
Likes: infinitys_7th
Mar 3, 2014
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing
There are no words. Congratulations. You win a prize for...something.
 
Oct 8, 2018
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing
Printing money doesn't increase actual productive capacity. No amount of taxes or printing money could pay for the Green New Deal because the actual real economy does not have nearly the capacity to do what it calls for in the timespan it calls for.
 
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Oct 1, 2006
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OMG. Now the exact same Senator from MA who co-sponsored it, is crying that bringing it to a vote is sabotage. You cannot make this shit up. The guy literally took time from his job as a Senator to draft and introduce legislation, then cries about sabotage when the Senate agrees to vote on what he introduced.

You know what this country needs - a constitutional amendment barring sitting Senators from running for president within 4 years of the last day they were a Senator. That would go a long way towards ending the nonsense of putting future political aspirations above doing the actual job you swore an oath to perform.
I like the idea of setting a limit on the proportion of time one can spend in elected office versus regular private and public jobs.

For example, you must have been employed in an actual job for 2 years for every 1 year you want to serve in government. Senators most work 12 years in the real world before being able to serve one term in office.

This would work as a defacto term as well. You could adjust the ratio to your liking.
 
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Mar 18, 2018
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people that say "PRINTING MONEY LOL" don't do a real good job cos, yeah, just print some more money. exactly!

we all know that shit is fake anyways, they print up money whenever they want it. AAA ratings people don't even objectively rate their shit, the financial industry basically exists on an honor system at this point. they print it when they need to save a bank or fund a new war. we see this happen in slow motion.

so yeah anyone going "How will we afford it?" your arguments mean literally nothing. And Gay frogs something something buy my vitamins
FTFY