• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Replaying UC4 has made me realize just how disappointing TLOU2 was.

Vick

Member
My big problem with every Naughty Dog game since the first Uncharted is that shooting gameplay in all their games are just straight up bad, the aim assist is bad and enemies are bullet sponges. Will be interesting to checkout if keyboard+mouse helps in this regard when Uncharted comes out on PC.
Shooting in them is so "straight up bad" their shooting-based Multiplayer lasted 6 years and is still going. U4 and TLL are my favorite TPS on Console.

You're just not good with a controlled, and that's fine and understandable. But if those are bad, similar shooting mechanics in games like Tomb Raider and 90% of third person games are straight up unqualifiable.

The Madagascar scenes etc. aren't really gameplay, they're just an on rails action sequence, like the bike in FFVII - but the graphics are really good.
Pretty sure "on rails" doesn't mean what you think it means.

The walkable area on that chase sequence alone could host a free-roam title. Sure, you have to move if don't want to fail the mission or die because of the tank, but that's obvious being that a "chase sequence".

Saying aren't really gameplay is pure nonsense.



Is the crazy end train sequence in TLL also not gameplay?

Never finished LL. Got stuck on the fight against a tank on crushed and eventually just moved on to other games.
You can't unlock Crushing without finishing the game first.



I think in both cases the bad pacing accentuates how Naughty Dog still struggles to make compelling gameplay outside of combat.
This is a great point. Love controls and mechanics in their games, but the game structure itself is really nothing special at all.

In this sense, the fast pace of the first Uncharted games (and also in part TLL) still made them a blast to play, and same goes for TLoU personally as i love Survival games.. but for instance, the game structure of something like Shadow of the Tomb Raider is much more appealing to me than Uncharted 4, problem is that everything else is so much inferior it prevents me from enjoying them.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Pretty sure "on rails" doesn't mean what you think it means.

The walkable area on that chase sequence alone could host a free-roam title. Sure, you have to move if don't want to fail the mission or die because of the tank, but that's obvious being that a "chase sequence".

Saying aren't really gameplay is pure nonsense.



Is the crazy end train sequence in TLL also not gameplay?

We're only talking about the chase sequence which are almost all on rails despite the game. Yes it's all on rails.

You're describing corridor. Can you get out the jeep and return fire? Or do you have to carry on. Do you consider this NOT on rails because you can go left or right?


The bit on the rope is just more of the same, a shooting gallery and it finishes with some frogger car jumping. Nothing about that sequence changes each time. It's just one shooting gallery after another. You can't choose anything about the approach or how you complete the mission. The only thing that changes is where and when you shoot the enemies on the screen.

The role of the developer is to make you believe it's anything more. It works on some people and not others. But ultimately you are transitioning between scenes and entering shooting galleries until the end which is basically frogger - wait till the adjacent car (platform) is in line then jump to it. The fighting once you've boarded is the most agency you have in the whole sequence.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Haven’t played TLOUP2 but I went back to check my impression of Uncharted 4 in a thread about how mediocre it supposedly was:
For me, Uncharted 4 is the best game in the serie, by far, and well-worthy of the many GOTY awards, the story is great, the action is fantastic, stealth added an extra layer to the already great gameplay, more exploration than before, and gone are the bullet sponge enemies just rushing like ants ready to die. Awesome game! 10/10
The gunplay was definitely a low point in the earlier games, too stationary shootouts, not enough punch in the weapons and too many enemies with no real challenge except being able of taking many shots, but I think Uncharted 4 corrected all those problems and with the added stealth bits it became fantastic, to me it honestly seems like trolling to say that it's bad.
I still stand by these posts, it’s hands down one of my favorite third person action games ever. Not surprised about the praise OP. Amazing game, so varied, joyful, bought the update yesterday, can’t wait jump back in again! 👌
 
Last edited:

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
And all that is based on…..what?
Well I can't speak for the majority, but I'm hesitant with ND games now.
Which is something I wasn't before because before Uncharted 4 I would pre-order their games in a heartbeat and LL and TLOU2 was pre-ordered because I still had faith, TLOU2 I nearly cancelled because of the shit I heard about it.
And after playing it myself and not even wanting to finish it(which is odd because I always play ND games from Start to finish)
I don't see them as the team they once were.
I'm hoping there next game is gonna blow me away and have all the excellence and charm of a Naugty Dog game.
But I don't think the people that made them are there anymore, even if they actually are(if you get what I mean)

Btw everytime someone says TLOU2 is Game of the Generation or some silly along those lines.
That's a fucking insult to the original TLOU that was a one and done homerun.
And more deserving of that title.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Btw everytime someone says TLOU2 is Game of the Generation or some silly along those lines.
That's a fucking insult to the original TLOU that was a one and done homerun.
And more deserving of that title.

No, it really isn't. It is just an opinion. Saying it is an "insult" to whatever is just absurd, dude. You just didn't like the game. That's fine.
 
Last edited:
Btw everytime someone says TLOU2 is Game of the Generation or some silly along those lines.
That's a fucking insult to the original TLOU that was a one and done homerun.
And more deserving of that title.

Lol, what a dumb take.

You don't like TLOU2. Fine.

Other's liking something you don't isn't insulting to other games. It's just that they like different things.
 
Last edited:

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
No, it really isn't. It is just an opinion. Saying it is an "insult" to whatever is just absurd, dude. You just didn't like the game. That's fine.
Well it's not that I hated the game, it's just that it sucked ass like a modern CW TV show.

But I mean "I" find it insulting to game, like you said it's just an opinion.
 
Last edited:

Tripolygon

Member
This is why the premise of TLOU2 doesn't even make any sense. People say, "Joel had to die", "Joel's facing the consequences of his decisions". Why, when there is barely karmic justice in a civil society, would there be karmic justice in a mature post-apocalypse? It makes no sense and is a garbage premise.
Joel's death was never portrayed as karmic justice for his actions, It was pure revenge which was also a motivator for Ellie as well. It made sense. In the first game, Joel went on a killing spree twice because Ellie his now "surrogate daughter" was about to be taken away from him and he would never let that happen a second time just like it happened to Sarah.
 

iHaunter

Member
They're entirely two different games, from two different genres, telling a different types' of story.

What am I even reading?
 
Last edited:

teokrazia

Member
Btw everytime someone says TLOU2 is Game of the Generation or some silly along those lines.
That's a fucking insult to the original TLOU that was a one and done homerun.
And more deserving of that title.

Since I liked TLoU1 alot but I find it overrated, I'm glad to insult it every time I talk about how amazing, and more accomplished, and more praise deserving TLoU2 is.
 

Vick

Member
The bit on the rope is just more of the same, a shooting gallery and it finishes with some frogger car jumping. Nothing about that sequence changes each time. It's just one shooting gallery after another. You can't choose anything about the approach or how you complete the mission. The only thing that changes is where and when you shoot the enemies on the screen.
I mean, what?
The sequence will never play out the same, even if you try to. You can chose on which car you want to jump on and when (with different outcome based on which enemy you left alive on the car) and once driving freely you can chose to either follow the convoy, smashing bikes and cars and jumping from one car to the other until you're tired, or use your rope and hang on the convoy, to then do again whatever you want except driving bikes.. i mean the sequence couldn't be any more free than it is, giving it's nature of "chase" sequence.

Resident Evil 4 mine cart sequence is on rails, this is not.

Doubt that. My only playthrough on UC4 was on crushing.




Edit: What I thought. Mind your own business 🤡🤡
You are right, apologies. It's actually greyed out once selecting Difficulty, but there is still a way to select it.

Why would you possibly want to do a first playthrough on Crushing though.. but that's another matter.
 

Concern

Member
I mean, what?
The sequence will never play out the same, even if you try to. You can chose on which car you want to jump on and when (with different outcome based on which enemy you left alive on the car) and once driving freely you can chose to either follow the convoy, smashing bikes and cars and jumping from one car to the other until you're tired, or use your rope and hang on the convoy, to then do again whatever you want except driving bikes.. i mean the sequence couldn't be any more free than it is, giving it's nature of "chase" sequence.

Resident Evil 4 mine cart sequence is on rails, this is not.


You are right, apologies. It's actually greyed out once selecting Difficulty, but there is still a way to select it.

Why would you possibly want to do a first playthrough on Crushing though.. but that's another matter.


All good.

I've always done my first playthroughs on the hardest difficulty unless its locked out like tlou where i had to do normal, survival, then grounded.
 

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
Naughty Dog are truly amazing developers no matter what your take on Uncharted, TLOU. The level to detail and the set pieces are incredible, going to jump in to grab that speed run trophy on UC4 legacy of thieves collection right now!
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
Unpopular opinion - UC4 was one of the, if not THE best Sony's games for PS4. The gameplay is super solid, the combat is based on guns, instead of melee with button prompt/semi-stealth finishers like later Sony's titles. The game heavily relies on scripts rather than passive cut-scenes, so you still maintain some level of control instead of feeling like you're just sitting there watching a movie. The pacing is off, granted, but the same applies to any game out there that aims for open-world/sandbox experience, I think UC2 remains unbeaten here with the right balance between gameplay, scrips, cut-scenes, combat, puzzles and platforming. UC4 story is as always light and enjoyable, like in a PG13 family movie with The Rock, with funny gags, you just can't not like Nathan "Oh Crap" Drake, Sully and the rest of the crew. So while the other, later games did surpass UC4 at certain aspects, like graphics, animations, world design, character models etc. IMO as the whole package UC4 trumps over the rest.
 

rofif

Gold Member
U4 is a fucking bloated mess of a game. You literally go hours without doing anything
That's exactly what I love about it.
It's all story, feels, atmosphere, immersion.
I love playing my games slow, walking around, enjoying all of it. I just replayed god of war and I almost wish it was more straight forward haha.

I understand why you feel this way and why the game is limiting to you. But it is a perfection if it hits your stride
 

rofif

Gold Member
Unpopular opinion - UC4 was one of the, if not THE best Sony's games for PS4. The gameplay is super solid, the combat is based on guns, instead of melee with button prompt/semi-stealth finishers like later Sony's titles. The game heavily relies on scripts rather than passive cut-scenes, so you still maintain some level of control instead of feeling like you're just sitting there watching a movie. The pacing is off, granted, but the same applies to any game out there that aims for open-world/sandbox experience, I think UC2 remains unbeaten here with the right balance between gameplay, scrips, cut-scenes, combat, puzzles and platforming. UC4 story is as always light and enjoyable, like in a PG13 family movie with The Rock, with funny gags, you just can't not like Nathan "Oh Crap" Drake, Sully and the rest of the crew. So while the other, later games did surpass UC4 at certain aspects, like graphics, animations, world design, character models etc. IMO as the whole package UC4 trumps over the rest.
Agreed. I see why people hate it like SlimySnake SlimySnake but it is incredible for me.
I like TLOU2 and Love Death Stranding too!
 

SlimySnake

Member
That's exactly what I love about it.
It's all story, feels, atmosphere, immersion.
I love playing my games slow, walking around, enjoying all of it. I just replayed god of war and I almost wish it was more straight forward haha.

I understand why you feel this way and why the game is limiting to you. But it is a perfection if it hits your stride
lol are you sure you love playing those games? ;p

I mean I get it. To me, the village level in U2 was a watershed moment in AAA games where you can have a level with no real gameplay, no puzzles, no platforming, just a dude walking around kicking footballs and petting cows. Unfortunately, that 5 minute sequence turned into a 15 hour full game in U4 and they just lost me.

If it makes you feel any better, I HATE Abby's aquarium flashbacks just as much. I loved Ellie's museum sequence on my first playthrough, but i am bored to death replaying it. They make replaying these games a chore. I finished GOW 5 times and even though I find it to be way too long, it still felt less bloated than U4 because at least you were fighting the same damn enemies and could skip all the side quests.

There is a way to do these levels and I think Lost Legacy does them perfectly. The first level is all walking, but it sets up this war torn city with an incredible level of immersion only games can provide. Then the next level is all platforming. But half of it is action platforming with you being chased and shot from behind in some of the most incredible looking rain and lighting effects ever. It is not boring. When they give you a big open world to explore, they make sure to include 9 shrines with memorable puzzles and rewards so that it doesnt feel like an empty open area like Madacasgar or chapter 12's massive island with literally nothing to do. The pacing is also way off. The game's story finally starts moving when Sam's lie is revealed and they cut to a flashback level that is literally 45 minutes long with no real gameplay. They were planning on including a sword fight to train you for the final fight but they ran out of time. That wouldve been perfect and shouldve focused on that instead of creating a massive mansion with nothing to do.

I guess what Im trying to say is that I dont have anything against this stuff, I just think they went too far with it, and forgot to make it engaging.
 
Last edited:

anothertech

Member
One thing TloU2 has over pretty much any other game in existence is animation quality. Holy shit did they get that right.

Character models probably the worst in the entire industry. They shat themselves there. Marvel avengers quality level.

The story and pacing could have been compelling if told right. But it wasn't. Shame really.
 

rofif

Gold Member
One thing TloU2 has over pretty much any other game in existence is animation quality. Holy shit did they get that right.

Character models probably the worst in the entire industry. They shat themselves there. Marvel avengers quality level.

The story and pacing could have been compelling if told right. But it wasn't. Shame really.
The story for sure got to me. I started hating Abby and by the end the game had me converted. I literally wanted to stop playing but I kept going and the game did it. The roller coaster game takes you is like no other… you just gotta let it.
It’s easy to see who have not played the game. And if someone plays this and still wants Abby dead by the end? Lol they are literally stubborn monsters and of course there is no way you enjoy it like that. So I can understand that liking of this game depends a bit on the personality.
 

gow3isben

Member
Uncharted 4 had some pacing issues but overall a better game than last of us 2 hands down overall.

Uncharted 2 is still Naughty Dog's Magnum Opus.
 
Everything else is subjective but TLOU2 from a gameplay standpoint is big improvement over the first one.
Agree 100%
you are playing a third person story driven action adventure game with a crap structure/writing ….the idea or concept of revenge is fine but Neil D has no idea about character building and it just fucks the whole game

Factions is gonna rock though
 

Rykan

Member
Don't forget everyone's fav part's of the game, the unwinnable "boss" fight, it was so fun they did it twice with the same character...

Hmmmmmmm... I wonder why they picked this specific character to do this with...
Because she's the leader of a Paramilitary organization?
 

rofif

Gold Member
Uncharted 4 had some pacing issues but overall a better game than last of us 2 hands down overall.

Uncharted 2 is still Naughty Dog's Magnum Opus.
uc2 aged more than you think. The story is infantile and shooting is bad.
The atmosphere and characters are still good
 

Woggleman

Member
I never had an issue with Abby because I realized as much as I like Joel he is clearly the villain in not just her but a lot of people's story.

Joel was never meant to be some super hero and if people expected that is that really the games fault?

People can call it bad writing but it is much more realistic than the game some people seemed to want.
 

rofif

Gold Member
Agree 100%
you are playing a third person story driven action adventure game with a crap structure/writing ….the idea or concept of revenge is fine but Neil D has no idea about character building and it just fucks the whole game

Factions is gonna rock though
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Bad writing ?! What does that even mean.
Sure - maybe the pacing could be better but the "Writing", dialogue, characters are all amazing.
You just don't like they killed joel. Deal with it
 

Bernardougf

Member
Unless the comparison is the genre of course. Production in TLOU2 is probably above Uncharted, story cohesion and performances I would say are better in TLOU2. From the OP genre seems to be the main gameplay argument:

"Sure, these types of set pieces maybe don't suit TLOU as much, but that doesn't excuse the fact that TLOU2 has no gameplay sequences that even came close to entertaining me as much as this in a general sense."

It's pretty clear from the OP that he likes action adventure set pieces and funny characters. You don't watch "Lincoln" by Spielberg and expect car chases and explosions for example. OP liked the chase sequence in Uncharted. TLOU2 aimed to have intense encounters, scary moments, and survival and it did that rather well, it didn’t aim to be an Indiana Jones family adventure. He likes one genre more than the other and that's great. Doesn't make the other a disappoint unless his only gripe is that he wanted more Uncharted from the studio instead of TLOU. TLOU is a different type of game. What it aimed to do it did well and a comparison to Uncharted to me seems a little out of place.


yes you would be right if the OP didn't mention the story as a counterpoint, and being two third-person action games heavily based on a cinematic story, they can and should be compared, both are high production value cinematic games in the same genre (TPS) being one more action/adventure and the other more stealth/drama... aside from direct comparisons on the style of each game within the exact same genre (adventure vs thriller/drama) comparisons can be made, especially regarding story structure (plot holes, pacing, character development, plot conveniences, voice acting, animations) If you think the OP liked UC4 better just because it's a different genre, that's fine, that's fair. but to say that the two cannot be compared under any metric is factually wrong.
 
I never had an issue with Abby because I realized as much as I like Joel he is clearly the villain in not just her but a lot of people's story.

Joel was never meant to be some super hero and if people expected that is that really the games fault?

People can call it bad writing but it is much more realistic than the game some people seemed to want.

Yeah... people are mostly pretty irrational when it comes to this stuff; the amount of nit-picking and vagueries in these arguments is always quite telling.

UC4 and TLOU2 are both really good games... but clearly they are not for everyone, to such a degree that I didn't even realize there was so much backlash for UC4! And due to horrible reasoning like "you go hours without doing anything", no less...

I give it to TLOU2, personally, as it's a much bolder, richer, more interesting game in terms of the way it is using gameplay to tell its story -- UC4 is merely really solid adventuring fun. No great crime, of course, but in terms of recognition I'm almost always going to side with the more complex message/experience.
 

tassletine

Member
Probably the most conservative company in videogames desperately pretending they're not.
Some extremely talented people work there but there has been zero innovation from that company since they decided to start copying movies.

I think LOU2 especially shows you how constrictive that formula can be.
Movies are designed to be consumed in 2 hour chunks and if you decide to play longer that in a ND game they stop working very well, unable to keep you entertained with their old gameplay loops.
If you're going to try and carry a story for 30 hours you need a story to tell, not just a bunch of characters suffering and coming to terms with THE HORROR!.

As for which is better. LOU2. UC4 was pretty boring.
 

Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Probably the most conservative company in videogames desperately pretending they're not.
Some extremely talented people work there but there has been zero innovation from that company since they decided to start copying movies.

I think LOU2 especially shows you how constrictive that formula can be.
Movies are designed to be consumed in 2 hour chunks and if you decide to play longer that in a ND game they stop working very well, unable to keep you entertained with their old gameplay loops.
If you're going to try and carry a story for 30 hours you need a story to tell, not just a bunch of characters suffering and coming to terms with THE HORROR!.

As for which is better. LOU2. UC4 was pretty boring.
Boring hyperbole aside, the "most conservative company in videogames" only killed their main character at the start of a game that you are slagging.
 

Certinty

Member
The Last of Us 2 has the higher highs but the lower lows by quite a distance. The gameplay is exceptional, the level design is great, the visuals are stunning as is the voice acting but the story, characters and pacing are goddamn awful.

Uncharted 4 on the other hand has an amazing story and characters whilst the visuals still look great, plus the gameplay is more than good enough.

Uncharted 4 for me is probably top 5 all-time in my favourite games, whereas The Last of Us 2 I sort of like to pretend doesn't exist despite how good it is technically.
 

rofif

Gold Member
Probably the most conservative company in videogames desperately pretending they're not.
Some extremely talented people work there but there has been zero innovation from that company since they decided to start copying movies.

I think LOU2 especially shows you how constrictive that formula can be.
Movies are designed to be consumed in 2 hour chunks and if you decide to play longer that in a ND game they stop working very well, unable to keep you entertained with their old gameplay loops.
If you're going to try and carry a story for 30 hours you need a story to tell, not just a bunch of characters suffering and coming to terms with THE HORROR!.

As for which is better. LOU2. UC4 was pretty boring.
It is a fact uc4 and tlou2 have a lot (of good) story.
But these games also have way more, better gameplay than their previous games.
UC4 is varied and has a TON of gameplay compared to trilogy. Shame with tlou2.

The company you are thinking about is Rockstar
 

tassletine

Member
Boring hyperbole aside, the "most conservative company in videogames" only killed their main character at the start of a game that you are slagging.

You misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about gameplay which they haven't changed noticeably in decades.
The "pretending" part comes in when they kill off a character of other 'edgy' content to make up for an overall lack of innovation in gameplay.

The fact is revenge mission stories, and killing off central characters in videogames isn't new, it's pretty standard -- Just it's not hyped up to the insane levels that ND did.
 

Woggleman

Member
Maybe it doesn't reinvent the wheel but TLOU2 has some of the best combat I have seen in a TPS. The original factions which is pure gameplay would not be so loved if that were not the case.
 

Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
Uncharted 4 is a boring as fuck "adventure" game. TLOU2 is a cut above and beyond that game, it's not even close.


TLOU2>>>>>>>LL>>>>>>>U4.
 
Top Bottom