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|OT| Resident Evil 3 |OT| Shooting for the S.T.A.R.S.

InfiniteCombo

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Actually, Shinji Mikami expressed his desire to remake 2,3 and Code Veronica back in 2002. But then biohazard 4 would have been delayed for good.
After all these years, it finally happened (with CV being still in question)



BIOHAZARD 2, 3 and CV will be released on GameCube too?

Shinji Mikami : Those games are NOT remakes, totally ports. Don't misunderstand that.
Tatsuya Minami : You will not remake those games?
Shinji Mikami : No, I just released those games for the new users on GameCube.
Tatsuya Minami : Why don't you remake?
Shinji Mikami : Personally, I want to remake, but if I do, the biohazard 4 release date will be delayed again.
Tatsuya Minami : Maybe it is better to just release the port and make it a cheap price.
Shinji Mikami : So, I'm not going to add anything. If I add something or change something, die-hard fans will buy it, and I don't want that to happen. "No addition, No change".



http://projectumbrella.net/articles/Shinji-Mikami-X-Tatsuya-Minami-HYPER-CAPCOM-SPECIAL-2002-Summer



Thanks for the link! It would have been very interesting to see RE2 and RE3 get the REmake treatment (fixed camera/tank controls, added sections, etc).

But honestly, I'm glad they went the route they ultimately ended up going. I absolutely love REmake but the combat sucks. Glad it got modernized in REmake 2 and REmake 3.

In fact, I like how each remake is different enough from each other, so to me they're all amazing. As much as I love the dodge mechanic in REmake 3, it would make absolutely no sense in REmake 2; it would just break that game.
 
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Soodanim

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I feel the opposite way about it. If they could have done RE2 with the same quality that they gave REmake, it would have been my favourite game of all time. That said, RE2make wasn't bad by any stretch and worth anyone's money. 3... I've discussed that at length in this thread.
 
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InfiniteCombo

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I feel the opposite way about it. If they could have done RE2 with the same quality that they gave REmake, it would have been my favourite game of all time. That said, RE2make wasn't bad by any stretch and worth anyone's money. 3... I've discussed that at length in this thread.
Maybe it's discussed in some of your prior posts, but what do you mean by "same quality?"

11 times out of 10, I prefer to play RE2 Remake rather than RE1 Remake... and that's coming from someone who absolutely loves RE1 Remake.
 

Croatoan

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Is there any hope they will remake RE4? Its...dated and I would like the gameplay of REmake 2 and 3 with it.

I am playing revelations on PC right now and really miss modern options. The FOV SUCKS!
 
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Geki-D

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Maybe it's discussed in some of your prior posts, but what do you mean by "same quality?"
Only thing that comes to mind is that RE Remake kept everything the original had whilst adding new stuff, so all of the endings were in, for example. RE2 Remake on the other hand cut out the whole second scenario and enemy types.

I personally wouldn't call that a lack of quality but more a lack of effort (probably a lack of dev time).
 

Valt7786

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Is there any hope they will remake RE4? Its...dated and I would like the gameplay of REmake 2 and 3 with it.

I am playing revelations on PC right now and really miss modern options. The FOV SUCKS!

They already are remaking it. Cant remember if its actually been officially announced or just leaked, but its definitely happening as far as I know.
Just hope they change the story too to make it a proper follow up to 2 and 3.
 

Soodanim

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Maybe it's discussed in some of your prior posts, but what do you mean by "same quality?"

11 times out of 10, I prefer to play RE2 Remake rather than RE1 Remake... and that's coming from someone who absolutely loves RE1 Remake.
REmake took the original, gave it a huge facelift; and added things to the story to make it fresh and new. Expanded locations and if anything was taken away it was minor. 2 remade in the classic style with that same approach would have been heaven for any classic RE fan.

The remake we got, while fantastic in its own way, is essentially an alternate universe/what if, rather than a valid replacement for the original.
 
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JimmyRustler

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REmake took the original, gave it a huge facelift; and added things to the story to make it fresh and new. Expanded locations and if anything was taken away it was minor. 2 remade in the classic style with that same approach would have been heaven for any classic RE fan.

The remake we got, while fantastic in its own way, is essentially an alternate universe/what if, rather than a valid replacement for the original.
The Remake of the original didn't replace that either though...
Remake 2 was just perfect that way it was. Just as Remake 1 was perfect the way it was. To me it would have made much sense to Remake 2 the same way they they 1 and vice versa. RE2 was way more action oriented from the get go so going 3rd person was not only a given but a must. On the other hand I could not imagine RE1 would work with 3rd person as the location was way to confined. Must were simply perfect (minus the dent RE2 Remake has because of the incomplete B-run.... I just can't get over this... Perfect game but that god damn B-run).
 
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InfiniteCombo

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People still misunderstand the meaning of REMAKE! SMH.
What's the meaning of "remake"?


Only thing that comes to mind is that RE Remake kept everything the original had whilst adding new stuff, so all of the endings were in, for example. RE2 Remake on the other hand cut out the whole second scenario and enemy types.

I personally wouldn't call that a lack of quality but more a lack of effort (probably a lack of dev time).

REmake took the original, gave it a huge facelift; and added things to the story to make it fresh and new. Expanded locations and if anything was taken away it was minor. 2 remade in the classic style with that same approach would have been heaven for any classic RE fan.

The remake we got, while fantastic in its own way, is essentially an alternate universe/what if, rather than a valid replacement for the original.

I was going to answer but seems JimmyRustler JimmyRustler already started that. The post below...

The Remake of the original didn't replace that either though...
Remake 2 was just perfect that way it was. Just as Remake 1 was perfect the way it was. To me it would have made much sense to Remake 2 the same way they they 1 and vice versa. RE2 was way more action oriented from the get go so going 3rd person was not only a given but a must. On the other hand I could not imagine RE1 would work with 3rd person as the location was way to confined. Must were simply perfect (minus the dent RE2 Remake has because of the incomplete B-run.... I just can't get over this... Perfect game but that god damn B-run).
... is pretty good, and I agree.

Regarding the B scenarios, which is something that generally comes up during REmake 2's discussion quite a bit: I'm myself a bit bummed that the B scenarios in REmake 2 weren't more in the spirit of the original. But I think the B scenario stuff is potentially overblown. So in the original, what makes the B scenarios different?

(1) Alternate "Raccoon streets path to RPD" section, which in the B scenario of the OG game is very short anyway
(2) Different boss fights
(3) Mr. X
(4) Alternate entrance to the lab, in the B scenario you have that short section with the power area leading to the lab
(5) Intersection points seen from the other person's perspective (e.g., all the times Claire and Leon meet, you get to see it from the other person's perspective in Scenario B)

I think the main crimes of Remake 2, scenario wise, is that Mr. X shows up in all scenarios (but then his final boss fight is locked to Leon for some reason), Leon and Claire both fight G1, G2, and G3 in both scenarios, and there's no #4 above. I was always fond of that power area that's the alternate entrance to the lab, so that one probably hurts the most, LOL. Also admittedly, there were very small and minor touches that made it seem like there was some scenario consistency in the original game (the shutters, the way you handled zombie Marvin, the alligator, the bonus sidepack/machine gun items, the double-fingerprint room in the lab) -- that all affected the B scenario depending on what the A scenario person did. So that was kind of cool, and missing from Remake 2.

All that being said, the main B scenario sections of the original 1998 game -- the RDP itself (both parts), the sewers, and the lab, are like at least 85% similar to the A scenario, it's just that stuff is in different locations. In REmake 2, it has (1), (3), and (5) above already, although admittedly Claire and Leon meet/communicate less in REmake 2 than they did in the original game, giving the impression that there's less B scenario stuff. So complaints about scenario handling, while valid, are probably a bit overblown.

LMAO, hijacking an REmake 3 thread -- we really need an RE or a Capcom community thread. I may get around to it after the holidays (busy with family and such...)
 
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What's the meaning of "remake"?
Not a 1:1 recreation (AKA asset flip).

What some people seem to want is just a simple remaster ala Crash The N.Sane Trilogy.

RE2R is fantastic "remake" and RE3R while flawed is great on it's own and has great replayability like the original.
 

SuperGooey

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Not a 1:1 recreation (AKA asset flip).
Though, RE3R feels like an asset flip of RE2R.

While not terrible, I can't imagine anyone being able to argue that RE3R is anything more than a C-tier RE game. To me, it fails as both a follow up to RE2R and as a remake to RE3. The two things RE3 NEEDED to get right was the streets of Raccoon City and Nemesis, and the remake undoubtably dropped the ball on both.
 
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Though, RE3R feels like an asset flip of RE2R.

While not terrible, I can't imagine anyone being able to argue that RE3R is anything more than a C-tier RE game. To me, it fails as both a follow up to RE2R and as a remake to RE3. The two things RE3 NEEDED to get right was the streets of Raccoon City and Nemesis, and the remake undoubtably dropped the ball on both.
How is RE3R an asset flip of RE2R? There's one small area it shares with RE2R and that's the police station, which is saying a LOT when the original Nemesis was using a lot of RE2 assets especially in the police station which was a bigger part of the original than it is in the remake.
 
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SuperGooey

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How is RE3R an asset flip of RE2R? There's one small area it shares with RE2R and that's the police station,
It reuses all the same zombie models, removes unique locations like the Dead Factory, the park and Clock Tower but adds in a sewer segment (which is just reusing RE2R assets) and NEST 2 (basically a recolored RE2R lab). RE3R also copies and pastes the same item crafting system from RE2R--making it far less in depth than the original RE3 crafting system.

Meanwhile, the areas that weren't cut, like the city streets, are drastically cut down. The only area that got expanded was the sewers and the hospital.
which is saying a LOT when the original Nemesis was using a lot of RE2 assets especially in the police station which was a bigger part of the original than it is in the remake.
This is objectively untrue. You spend about the same amount of time in the RPD in both the remake and original RE3. The difference is there are more locations in the city to explore in RE3 Classic, so the RPD actually ends up taking up a bigger percent of the remake's locations.

And unlike the original, the remake doesn't have Nemesis stalking you with a rocket launcher while you escape the RPD, so there is basically nothing unique to exploring the station in RE3R.

RE3 Classic does reuse some assets from RE2 Classic, but not as much as is believed--all the gun models are unique (not true with the remake), all the enemies models are unique and the zombies even have completely different AI than RE2 (not true in the remake), and the classic RE3 includes unique features like multiple endings/story paths, randomized item and enemy locations, and the most in depth ammo crafting system in the series. It is even one of the only RE games that doesn't end in a lab. RE3R doesn't do any of this, so it ultimately ends up doing far less to distinguish itself from RE2R.
 
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SEGA_2012

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The graphics are amazing.
I also love the sound effects.
I got the shotgun and the sound and feeling of "impact" when you shoot a zombie is great.
 
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brenobnfm

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Though, RE3R feels like an asset flip of RE2R.

While not terrible, I can't imagine anyone being able to argue that RE3R is anything more than a C-tier RE game. To me, it fails as both a follow up to RE2R and as a remake to RE3. The two things RE3 NEEDED to get right was the streets of Raccoon City and Nemesis, and the remake undoubtably dropped the ball on both.

Try harder then, RE3R is a phenomenal game, easily top 5 at least in the franchise.
 

fart town usa

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It's a fantastic game but my main issue is that certain parts of the story felt too rushed. Namely Brad. It really annoyed me that he gets bit so early. The original RE trilogy has by far the best plot and they could have really done more by adding just a few extra minutes of dialogue and character building. I still love the game though.
 

Arachnid

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Is there any hope they will remake RE4? Its...dated and I would like the gameplay of REmake 2 and 3 with it.

I am playing revelations on PC right now and really miss modern options. The FOV SUCKS!
One of the highest rated games of all time? There is NO CHANCE they aren't working on RE4make right now. In fact, a lot of people feel like they rushed through RE3 just to get to 4.
 

InfiniteCombo

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RE3 Classic does reuse some assets from RE2 Classic, but not as much as is believed--all the gun models are unique (not true with the remake), all the enemies models are unique and the zombies even have completely different AI than RE2 (not true in the remake), and the classic RE3 includes unique features like multiple endings/story paths, randomized item and enemy locations, and the most in depth ammo crafting system in the series. It is even one of the only RE games that doesn't end in a lab. RE3R doesn't do any of this, so it ultimately ends up doing far less to distinguish itself from RE2R.

Your post as a whole is very reasonable and well thought out. For the quoted part, let's take these one at a time ("C" is for classic and "R" is for remake):

"All the gun models are unique" -- You mean like the literal icons in the item screen? Because, otherwise, Jill gets: a handgun (which both Leon and Claire get in RE2C), a shotgun (and actually, even less capable, since Leon's gets an upgrade about 2/3 of the way in RE2C, Jill's doesn't get any upgrade), a magnum (same as the shotgun), and a grenade launcher (Claire's weapon in RE2C). So the standard weapons that Jill gets are all Leon/Claire weapons from RE2C. Now, to be fair Jill does get the Mine Thrower and the handgun/shotgun that Nemesis drops when you defeat him. And the freeze rounds are pretty damn cool. But, again, the main weapons are all Leon/Claire weapons from RE2C, and serve pretty much the same purpose. Oh, forgot about Carlos: he gets the machine gun, which behaves similarly and serves the same purpose as the RE2C machine gun.

"All the enemies models are unique and the zombies even have completely different AI than RE2 (not true in the remake)" -- Yes. This is good and bad. The zombie models in RE3C actually seem like a downgrade from the ones in RE2C. They all have this uniform, lower textured look than the ones in RE2C. And of course the AI needed to change -- RE3C is a faster, more action oriented game than RE2C. So if they left the AI the same, it wouldn't work. And in some cases the zombie AI in RE3C comes down to: "go turbo, or don't go turbo." As for the "not true in the Remake" part: Parasite heads have different AI, RE3R has Pale heads (which are not present in the main RE2R campaign, they're in the Katherine Warren "Runaway" DLC I think), Hunters -- several different/additional enemies in RE3R than RE2R.

"The classic RE3 includes unique features like multiple endings/story paths" -- As a huge fan of the RE3C, I've thought a lot about this. And while I love the feature, and it's cool, and it does indeed add to replicability, it's... overblown. Because at the end of the day, the decisions don't matter that much -- the one that truly matters is the one right before the dead factory (whether to push Nemesis off the bridge, or to jump off). But, does it really matter if you fight Nemesis or run away from him at the police station? Does it really matter if you first meet Carlos at the newspaper office or at the diner? Does it really matter if you electrocute the zombies or use the emergency escape at the substation? Not really.

"Randomized item and enemy locations" -- This is also overblown. OK, so you can get either the magnum or the grenade launcher at the RPD. You can get some red herbs in this one fixed place, or at this other fixed place. Items are not that randomized. In any case, RE3R also employs this feature, where the Nightmare/Inferno difficulties have item placements that are different from the other difficulties.

"the most in depth ammo crafting system in the series" -- Zero argument there, this is very, very true.

"It is even one of the only RE games that doesn't end in a lab" -- Also true. It's a very subjective matter but I thought the Dead Factory was the weakest part of RE3C, and I'm glad it got replaced with NEST 2, even if the latter is kind of short.

In my mind, the true omissions in RE3R were:
- The Clocktower: This one is probably the one that hurts me ( :messenger_tears_of_joy: ) the most. To see the inside of the Clocktower in this engine would've been amazing
- The Park: Another area I was really looking forward to seeing, although it wasn't that extensive in the original game
- Mercenaries: This mode which became a staple of many later RE's was born in RE3, yet it's not in the Remake.

To me, almost everything else about RE3R was done very well -- Raccoon City looks great, Nemesis is amazing and threatening, boss battles are great, the redone Jill/Carlos/Nicholai characterizations are really well done, and we have a dodge feature that actually works this time (and is exceptionally satisfying to perform -- whoosh!). In fact, it works too well, and I would argue that the Inferno (hardest) difficulty requires a good handle of this gameplay mechanic.

Well, there goes my "In Defense of RE3 Remake" thread I was gonna create, LOL.
 

Soodanim

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The Remake of the original didn't replace that either though...
Remake 2 was just perfect that way it was. Just as Remake 1 was perfect the way it was. To me it would have made much sense to Remake 2 the same way they they 1 and vice versa. RE2 was way more action oriented from the get go so going 3rd person was not only a given but a must. On the other hand I could not imagine RE1 would work with 3rd person as the location was way to confined. Must were simply perfect (minus the dent RE2 Remake has because of the incomplete B-run.... I just can't get over this... Perfect game but that god damn B-run).

What's the meaning of "remake"?






I was going to answer but seems JimmyRustler JimmyRustler already started that. The post below...


... is pretty good, and I agree.

Regarding the B scenarios, which is something that generally comes up during REmake 2's discussion quite a bit: I'm myself a bit bummed that the B scenarios in REmake 2 weren't more in the spirit of the original. But I think the B scenario stuff is potentially overblown. So in the original, what makes the B scenarios different?

(1) Alternate "Raccoon streets path to RPD" section, which in the B scenario of the OG game is very short anyway
(2) Different boss fights
(3) Mr. X
(4) Alternate entrance to the lab, in the B scenario you have that short section with the power area leading to the lab
(5) Intersection points seen from the other person's perspective (e.g., all the times Claire and Leon meet, you get to see it from the other person's perspective in Scenario B)

I think the main crimes of Remake 2, scenario wise, is that Mr. X shows up in all scenarios (but then his final boss fight is locked to Leon for some reason), Leon and Claire both fight G1, G2, and G3 in both scenarios, and there's no #4 above. I was always fond of that power area that's the alternate entrance to the lab, so that one probably hurts the most, LOL. Also admittedly, there were very small and minor touches that made it seem like there was some scenario consistency in the original game (the shutters, the way you handled zombie Marvin, the alligator, the bonus sidepack/machine gun items, the double-fingerprint room in the lab) -- that all affected the B scenario depending on what the A scenario person did. So that was kind of cool, and missing from Remake 2.

All that being said, the main B scenario sections of the original 1998 game -- the RDP itself (both parts), the sewers, and the lab, are like at least 85% similar to the A scenario, it's just that stuff is in different locations. In REmake 2, it has (1), (3), and (5) above already, although admittedly Claire and Leon meet/communicate less in REmake 2 than they did in the original game, giving the impression that there's less B scenario stuff. So complaints about scenario handling, while valid, are probably a bit overblown.

LMAO, hijacking an REmake 3 thread -- we really need an RE or a Capcom community thread. I may get around to it after the holidays (busy with family and such...)
I wasn't going to reply as I simply disagreed with TheExo's views, but okay.

2R in a classic style would work. The original 2 is one of if not the best in the series - of course classic 2 works, as does 3. I'm not saying the 2R team should have made it classic style (that's dead now), I'm saying the REmake team could have done it back then. I also think you're in a minority to think REmake doesn't replace the original. It's super faithful and expands on both the mansion and the world without taking away, unlike 2R and 3R which have drastic changes - it's canon. People that talk about lore will forever include Lisa Trevor et al, but 2R and 3R did a lot of changing and taking away. 3R especially, there's no way that should be considered canon. Alternate universe at best.

You're downplaying the B scenario and zapping system or forgetting how different the B scenario feels. The familiar yet different feel carries through the RPD with changed item locations, and Mr X feeds into how different it feels. The changes are greater than the sum of their parts.

2R had the potential to expand the zapping system and the B scenario crossovers, but instead it did away with all of it and offered the bare minimum only in response to fans not liking the idea of no B scenario. Fans wanted more of B scenario so much so that Capcom had to respond, so that 15% was impactful enough. 2R was lacking in that regard. I remember the disappointment of realising that the 2nd Scenario's items were all in the same places.
Not a 1:1 recreation (AKA asset flip).

What some people seem to want is just a simple remaster ala Crash The N.Sane Trilogy.

RE2R is fantastic "remake" and RE3R while flawed is great on it's own and has great replayability like the original.
Asset flip is a term coined by Jim Sterling to describe games that are made from stock assets with the intention of just making money instead of attempting to make something good. RE3R, despite its shortcomings, is not an asset flip by any stretch of the imagination.

A remaster is redecorating a house. It's still the same house underneath.
A remake is building the house again. You're starting from scratch.

2R and 3R are remakes but they're more like re-imaginings, as they go out of their way to be different.
Your post as a whole is very reasonable and well thought out. For the quoted part, let's take these one at a time ("C" is for classic and "R" is for remake):

"All the gun models are unique" -- You mean like the literal icons in the item screen? Because, otherwise, Jill gets: a handgun (which both Leon and Claire get in RE2C), a shotgun (and actually, even less capable, since Leon's gets an upgrade about 2/3 of the way in RE2C, Jill's doesn't get any upgrade), a magnum (same as the shotgun), and a grenade launcher (Claire's weapon in RE2C). So the standard weapons that Jill gets are all Leon/Claire weapons from RE2C. Now, to be fair Jill does get the Mine Thrower and the handgun/shotgun that Nemesis drops when you defeat him. And the freeze rounds are pretty damn cool. But, again, the main weapons are all Leon/Claire weapons from RE2C, and serve pretty much the same purpose. Oh, forgot about Carlos: he gets the machine gun, which behaves similarly and serves the same purpose as the RE2C machine gun.

"All the enemies models are unique and the zombies even have completely different AI than RE2 (not true in the remake)" -- Yes. This is good and bad. The zombie models in RE3C actually seem like a downgrade from the ones in RE2C. They all have this uniform, lower textured look than the ones in RE2C. And of course the AI needed to change -- RE3C is a faster, more action oriented game than RE2C. So if they left the AI the same, it wouldn't work. And in some cases the zombie AI in RE3C comes down to: "go turbo, or don't go turbo." As for the "not true in the Remake" part: Parasite heads have different AI, RE3R has Pale heads (which are not present in the main RE2R campaign, they're in the Katherine Warren "Runaway" DLC I think), Hunters -- several different/additional enemies in RE3R than RE2R.

"The classic RE3 includes unique features like multiple endings/story paths" -- As a huge fan of the RE3C, I've thought a lot about this. And while I love the feature, and it's cool, and it does indeed add to replicability, it's... overblown. Because at the end of the day, the decisions don't matter that much -- the one that truly matters is the one right before the dead factory (whether to push Nemesis off the bridge, or to jump off). But, does it really matter if you fight Nemesis or run away from him at the police station? Does it really matter if you first meet Carlos at the newspaper office or at the diner? Does it really matter if you electrocute the zombies or use the emergency escape at the substation? Not really.

"Randomized item and enemy locations" -- This is also overblown. OK, so you can get either the magnum or the grenade launcher at the RPD. You can get some red herbs in this one fixed place, or at this other fixed place. Items are not that randomized. In any case, RE3R also employs this feature, where the Nightmare/Inferno difficulties have item placements that are different from the other difficulties.

"the most in depth ammo crafting system in the series" -- Zero argument there, this is very, very true.

"It is even one of the only RE games that doesn't end in a lab" -- Also true. It's a very subjective matter but I thought the Dead Factory was the weakest part of RE3C, and I'm glad it got replaced with NEST 2, even if the latter is kind of short.

In my mind, the true omissions in RE3R were:
- The Clocktower: This one is probably the one that hurts me ( :messenger_tears_of_joy: ) the most. To see the inside of the Clocktower in this engine would've been amazing
- The Park: Another area I was really looking forward to seeing, although it wasn't that extensive in the original game
- Mercenaries: This mode which became a staple of many later RE's was born in RE3, yet it's not in the Remake.

To me, almost everything else about RE3R was done very well -- Raccoon City looks great, Nemesis is amazing and threatening, boss battles are great, the redone Jill/Carlos/Nicholai characterizations are really well done, and we have a dodge feature that actually works this time (and is exceptionally satisfying to perform -- whoosh!). In fact, it works too well, and I would argue that the Inferno (hardest) difficulty requires a good handle of this gameplay mechanic.

Well, there goes my "In Defense of RE3 Remake" thread I was gonna create, LOL.
Ha, you do love to downplay the classics!

Downplaying brand new models by saying they're still handgun/shotgun etc by just saying "They're the same but worse" completely ignores both the weapons you get from Nemesis and the crafting system's enhanced rounds that serve to replace the custom parts from 2. There's more variation in 3 than 2, not less. Either way, saying they're the Leon/Claire weapons is saying they're the Jill/Chris weapons, or RE copied whichever game used those weapons first. It's missing the point.

He's talking about zombie AI not the rest of it, and he's right. But to be fair SuperGooey SuperGooey , 2R's AI learns from the whole series so I don't think it needed changing much for 3R. Let's not talk too much about Parasite heads AKA RE4 Plagas though, they're the worst thing about the game.

I've seen this argument before, and I can't agree with it. A story is about the journey from A-B, not just the ending. As a game, that amount of choice and replayability is great. The randomised item placements in 3 are far beyond the meagre changes in 3R Nightmare/Inferno. Again, like the 2nd Scenario from 2R, I expected more. The early magnum and zombie circle gave me hope for a whole game of changes, but any changes pretty much ended after the demo area, and if anything changed after the sewer I definitely don't remember it. Given 3R's complete lack of balance in Inferno, I don't think it's fair to give them much credit there. It, like the whole game, was unfinished.

If I didn't respond to a point, I agree with it.
 

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S Soodanim Nightmare/Inferno allows you the use of infinite weapons without rank penalties and the game is balanced around you mastering the dodge mechanic and using the unlockables to even the odds.
 

Soodanim

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S Soodanim Nightmare/Inferno allows you the use of infinite weapons without rank penalties and the game is balanced around you mastering the dodge mechanic and using the unlockables to even the odds.
Nemesis on Inferno is notorious for being cheap. You can die and have no control over it.

I'd argue that a difficulty mode balanced around infinite weapons isn't balanced at all.
 
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SuperGooey

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Your post as a whole is very reasonable and well thought out. For the quoted part, let's take these one at a time ("C" is for classic and "R" is for remake):
Thanks, I can totally see where you're coming from as well, but there are just a few things I disagree with.
"The classic RE3 includes unique features like multiple endings/story paths" -- As a huge fan of the RE3C, I've thought a lot about this. And while I love the feature, and it's cool, and it does indeed add to replicability, it's... overblown. Because at the end of the day, the decisions don't matter that much -- the one that truly matters is the one right before the dead factory (whether to push Nemesis off the bridge, or to jump off). But, does it really matter if you fight Nemesis or run away from him at the police station? Does it really matter if you first meet Carlos at the newspaper office or at the diner? Does it really matter if you electrocute the zombies or use the emergency escape at the substation? Not really.
The decisions DO matter in making RE3C the most organic, and nonlinear feeling RE game. If anything, the remake should have expanded on this feature, not completely remove it. I'm still discovering new cutscenes and interactions in RE3C 20 years later, which really makes replays feel special.

I think the Dead Factory in the original was a cool idea that wasn't even close to fully realized. I was very disappointed that it was just scrapped for NEST 2; though, I honestly do like the look of NEST 2. It actually feels closer to the atmosphere of RE2C's lab than RE2R's lab. I love how the music becomes more intense, adding new instruments as you collect each part of the vaccine!


"All the enemies models are unique and the zombies even have completely different AI than RE2 (not true in the remake)" -- Yes. This is good and bad. The zombie models in RE3C actually seem like a downgrade from the ones in RE2C. They all have this uniform, lower textured look than the ones in RE2C. And of course the AI needed to change -- RE3C is a faster, more action oriented game than RE2C. So if they left the AI the same, it wouldn't work. And in some cases the zombie AI in RE3C comes down to: "go turbo, or don't go turbo." As for the "not true in the Remake" part: Parasite heads have different AI, RE3R has Pale heads (which are not present in the main RE2R campaign, they're in the Katherine Warren "Runaway" DLC I think), Hunters -- several different/additional enemies in RE3R than RE2R.
I think reusing the same zombie models and zombie AI came off as really lazy, especially with the dodge mechanic changing how you can interact with them. This was Capcom's chance to redesign the zombies to have a more clear "wind up" attack so the perfect dodge would make more sense, but instead they just copied and pasted the ones from RE2R.

"Randomized item and enemy locations" -- This is also overblown. OK, so you can get either the magnum or the grenade launcher at the RPD. You can get some red herbs in this one fixed place, or at this other fixed place. Items are not that randomized. In any case, RE3R also employs this feature, where the Nightmare/Inferno difficulties have item placements that are different from the other difficulties.
There's more to it than that when you combine these randomized item/enemy locations with all the multiple paths you can take--the game is always dynamic. Again, I feel this is a feature that should have been expanded in a remake, not removed. RE3R desperately needed more features to distinguish itself from the RE2 remake. All the answers were right there in the original RE3, but the remake scrapped them because I'm assuming it would have been too much work. Even Nemesis went from being this dynamic stalker in the original to mostly a heavily scripted event/boss fight.

I'll say this about RE3R, though: the cast of characters are FANTASTIC, and the hospital is really well done having some of the best atmosphere and art direction in the series, imo. RE3R probably isn't as bad as I'm painting it, and it is more than an asset flip, but it does feel like a lazy cashgrab to me. In spite of that, it's no where near being the worst RE game, but I wouldn't say it's anywhere near the best either.
 
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InfiniteCombo

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I wasn't going to reply as I simply disagreed with TheExo's views, but okay.

2R in a classic style would work. The original 2 is one of if not the best in the series - of course classic 2 works, as does 3. I'm not saying the 2R team should have made it classic style (that's dead now), I'm saying the REmake team could have done it back then. I also think you're in a minority to think REmake doesn't replace the original. It's super faithful and expands on both the mansion and the world without taking away, unlike 2R and 3R which have drastic changes - it's canon. People that talk about lore will forever include Lisa Trevor et al, but 2R and 3R did a lot of changing and taking away. 3R especially, there's no way that should be considered canon. Alternate universe at best.

You're downplaying the B scenario and zapping system or forgetting how different the B scenario feels. The familiar yet different feel carries through the RPD with changed item locations, and Mr X feeds into how different it feels. The changes are greater than the sum of their parts.

2R had the potential to expand the zapping system and the B scenario crossovers, but instead it did away with all of it and offered the bare minimum only in response to fans not liking the idea of no B scenario. Fans wanted more of B scenario so much so that Capcom had to respond, so that 15% was impactful enough. 2R was lacking in that regard. I remember the disappointment of realising that the 2nd Scenario's items were all in the same places.

Asset flip is a term coined by Jim Sterling to describe games that are made from stock assets with the intention of just making money instead of attempting to make something good. RE3R, despite its shortcomings, is not an asset flip by any stretch of the imagination.

A remaster is redecorating a house. It's still the same house underneath.
A remake is building the house again. You're starting from scratch.

2R and 3R are remakes but they're more like re-imaginings, as they go out of their way to be different.

Ha, you do love to downplay the classics!

Downplaying brand new models by saying they're still handgun/shotgun etc by just saying "They're the same but worse" completely ignores both the weapons you get from Nemesis and the crafting system's enhanced rounds that serve to replace the custom parts from 2. There's more variation in 3 than 2, not less. Either way, saying they're the Leon/Claire weapons is saying they're the Jill/Chris weapons, or RE copied whichever game used those weapons first. It's missing the point.

He's talking about zombie AI not the rest of it, and he's right. But to be fair SuperGooey SuperGooey , 2R's AI learns from the whole series so I don't think it needed changing much for 3R. Let's not talk too much about Parasite heads AKA RE4 Plagas though, they're the worst thing about the game.

I've seen this argument before, and I can't agree with it. A story is about the journey from A-B, not just the ending. As a game, that amount of choice and replayability is great. The randomised item placements in 3 are far beyond the meagre changes in 3R Nightmare/Inferno. Again, like the 2nd Scenario from 2R, I expected more. The early magnum and zombie circle gave me hope for a whole game of changes, but any changes pretty much ended after the demo area, and if anything changed after the sewer I definitely don't remember it. Given 3R's complete lack of balance in Inferno, I don't think it's fair to give them much credit there. It, like the whole game, was unfinished.

If I didn't respond to a point, I agree with it.

I think my post was partially misunderstood. I'm definitely not downplaying the classics -- RE2C and RE3C are, in my opinion, two of the best games ever made and definitely two of my top 10 favorite games ever, in a personal top 10 field already crowded with Resident Evil entries. RE is certainly my unquestionably favorite franchise in video games, and the first 3 games, the original PlayStation trilogy (yes, that includes the very OG RE1 from 1996) have a substantial gameplay and emotional significance for me. I play through classic RE1/RE2/RE3 at least once (and often multiple times) yearly. My favorite of those unquestionably is RE2C for several reasons, but every time I go through the trilogy, I have the most fun with RE3C. Some people even argue that the "true" Resident Evil 3 is Code Veronica, and that the actual 3 is only so because of Capcom and Sony politics. But RE3 deserves the "3" label, much more than Code Veronica would, and it's actually the much better game. (Side note: my current avatar is Claire Redfield, although in the avatar she's not all that recognizable because... well, Revelations 2 Claire is not recognizable to anybody, LOL).

I did talk to the weapons dropped by Nemesis in my post. But really, how many people actually fight Nemesis for the weapon drops? Even professional runners that play in the "Nemesis%" Category -- the one where you have to down him on all encounters -- often don't pick up all the weapon drops. And forget about doing it in speedruns, of course. I mean, to be fair, they are pretty damn cool -- the Eagle handgun feels amazing to use and is actually very useful; the M37 "Custom Western" shotgun is fun to use although less useful than the regular shotgun, unless I'm being a complete noob. Jill shooting that shotgun one-handed is one of the coolest things in the RE series, I don't deny that.

Also, I did mention that the choices in RE3C do add to replayability. That, and costumes -- as much as I love RE3R, the lack of alternate costumes is thoroughly embarrassing.

Some other points:
"Let's not talk too much about Parasite heads AKA RE4 Plagas though, they're the worst thing about the game" -- I slightly disagree with this. So let's not talk about one of the major differences between the easier and harder modes? While Parasite Heads may look like RE4 plagas enemies, they behave differently in some key ways, the main one of course being the long-range tentacle attack. And they really test your dodging and combat skills. So they need to be in the game.

"and if anything changed after the sewer I definitely don't remember it". Here are a couple:
(1) Early in the hospital section, a reception room with like 3-4 zombies gets replaced by a single Licker in Nightmare/Inferno. That enemy placement decision alone has BIG implications -- as Carlos, you may not have enough ammo to take down the Licker, which means that on your return trip, you have to deal with this Licker -- with a Hunter hot on your trail. So how to get past this situation becomes a bit of a puzzle onto itself: Do you walk in the Licker room so the Licker doesn't notice you, while running the risk that the Hunter catches up with you? Do you run in the Licker room, to get some distance between you and the Hunter, but then risking potentially big damage from the Licker, who can now hear you?...
(2) The "acid Nemesis" battle, in Nightmare/Inferno, now has Pale Heads in the rotation of the zombies popping out when doggie Nemesis is running around. That alone changes the strategy quite a bit; Pale Heads are tough enemies and a giant pain in the ass to deal with.

Don't disagree with you with a lot of the points you made in general. I would have loved RE3R to be more randomized like RE3C. I would've loved the Clocktower, the Park, Mercenaries, extra costumes, etc. (I don't really care for the Grave Digger boss, I think it's a dumb enemy). In general, I do think RE3R took some shortcuts, but my defense of it is based on me thinking it gets way more hate than deserved. It's actually a great video game: fantastically fun to play, looks great, with satisfying gameplay, well done characters, and some of the best pacing since RE4. It's a good Resident Evil, one of the better ones actually. Only issue is that it might be a mediocre Resident Evil 3, and I think that's where a lot of us may be getting hung up.


Thanks, I can totally see where you're coming from as well, but there are just a few things I disagree with.

The decisions DO matter in making RE3C the most organic, and nonlinear feeling RE game. If anything, the remake should have expanded on this feature, not completely remove it. I'm still discovering new cutscenes and interactions in RE3C 20 years later, which really makes replays feel special.

I think the Dead Factory in the original was a cool idea that wasn't even close to fully realized. I was very disappointed that it was just scrapped for NEST 2; though, I honestly do like the look of NEST 2. It actually feels closer to the atmosphere of RE2C's lab than RE2R's lab. I love how the music becomes more intense, adding new instruments as you collect each part of the vaccine!



I think reusing the same zombie models and zombie AI came off as really lazy, especially with the dodge mechanic changing how you can interact with them. This was Capcom's chance to redesign the zombies to have a more clear "wind up" attack so the perfect dodge would make more sense, but instead they just copied and pasted the ones from RE2R.


There's more to it than that when you combine these randomized item/enemy locations with all the multiple paths you can take--the game is always dynamic. Again, I feel this is a feature that should have been expanded in a remake, not removed. RE3R desperately needed more features to distinguish itself from the RE2 remake. All the answers were right there in the original RE3, but the remake scrapped them because I'm assuming it would have been too much work. Even Nemesis went from being this dynamic stalker in the original to mostly a heavily scripted event/boss fight.

I'll say this about RE3R, though: the cast of characters are FANTASTIC, and the hospital is really well done having some of the best atmosphere and art direction in the series, imo. RE3R probably isn't as bad as I'm painting it, and it is more than an asset flip, but it does feel like a lazy cashgrab to me. In spite of that, it's no where near being the worst RE game, but I wouldn't say it's anywhere near the best either.

I agree with a lot of what you said here. It may even be, in some ways, a "lazy cash grab" -- I wish we got more insight into the development process. But man, aside some shortcomings well documented everywhere even in this thread, it's a fantastic game.
 

SEGA_2012

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What a fight against Nemesis! On the rooftop.
I also loved the scene after the fight, when Jill bravely decided to slide on the building.

I was going to ask, what do you guys think about her personality in this game? I like her a lot.
I saw people saying she is rude, but i think it is understandable since she is dealing with mercenaries from Umbrella .
 

Stilton Disco

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What a fight against Nemesis! On the rooftop.
I also loved the scene after the fight, when Jill bravely decided to slide on the building.

I was going to ask, what do you guys think about her personality in this game? I like her a lot.
I saw people saying she is rude, but i think it is understandable since she is dealing with mercenaries from Umbrella .
People calling Jill rude clearly didn't play or don't remember the original, where she rips the mercs apart even worse and even says the citizens of Raccoon City kind of deserve this for willingly turning a blind eye to Umbrella.
 

gamer82

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just playing this now for the first time. really enjoying it looking forward to resident evil 8 but my backlog is saying do not buy any more games .

it seems i have a problem with finishing games it seems lol story and im done cant be bothered with trophy hunting or side missions .

not enough hours in the day for those shenanigans.
 
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HotPocket69

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Mom’s basement with my tendies
See below


Also, never.

Your non opinion eats more dicks than your mom hth

- Better more detailed facial animations and character designs
- Better sound design (compare the bang of Jills pistol to the wet fart of a pop of the pistols in RE2R
- Better pacing. It might be shorter, but the straightforwardness is more appreciated. No constant back and forth.
- Save room music and music in general which gives the game a sense of urgency adding to the glorious pacing and short length
- The rail gun
- Jills ass
 

Soodanim

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Your non opinion eats more dicks than your mom hth

- Better more detailed facial animations and character designs
- Better sound design (compare the bang of Jills pistol to the wet fart of a pop of the pistols in RE2R
- Better pacing. It might be shorter, but the straightforwardness is more appreciated. No constant back and forth.
- Save room music and music in general which gives the game a sense of urgency adding to the glorious pacing and short length
- The rail gun
- Jills ass
- They’re great, but facial animations never got a game top 5 status
- Same again
- “None of what people love about Resident Evil, like that pesky exploration they kept sneaking in before”
- Save room music is legitimately good in all RE games, but Carlos RPD save room is especially good and only used once. Criminal.
- The section in a poorly designed boss fight where you hold forward and she moves slowly until you get the honour of pressing a button. Top 5 status confirmed

REmake, 2, 3, 4, 2R is a top 5 that immediately pushes 3R to #6. It’s probably top 10, but I’ll say it again: good game, bad remake.
 
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HotPocket69

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Mom’s basement with my tendies
- They’re great, but facial animations never got a game top 5 status
- Same again
- “None of what people love about Resident Evil, like that pesky exploration they kept sneaking in before”
- Save room music is legitimately good in all RE games, but Carlos RPD save room is especially good and only used once. Criminal.
- The section in a poorly designed boss fight where you hold forward and she moves slowly until you get the honour of pressing a button. Top 5 status confirmed

REmake, 2, 3, 4, 2R is a top 5 that immediately pushes 3R to #6. It’s probably top 10, but I’ll say it again: good game, bad remake.

It’s better than the remakes of 1 and 2
 
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Soodanim

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It’s better than the remakes of 1 and 2
At what?
1 is a better faithful remake
2 is a better reimagining

I was going to joke and say 3 is better at having Nemesis in, but it’s not even got that going for it. Mr X was a better Nemesis and the Nemesis in 3R was criminally botched. A couple of street encounters and a flamethrower fight then he’s not Nemesis any more.
 

HotPocket69

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Mom’s basement with my tendies
At what?
1 is a better faithful remake
2 is a better reimagining

I was going to joke and say 3 is better at having Nemesis in, but it’s not even got that going for it. Mr X was a better Nemesis and the Nemesis in 3R was criminally botched. A couple of street encounters and a flamethrower fight then he’s not Nemesis any more.

It’s better at everything.

X was more terrifying than Nemesis sure, and the bosses in 2R are no fun whatsoever.

3 is just the much better playing and overall game.
 

Arachnid

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Your non opinion eats more dicks than your mom hth

- Better more detailed facial animations and character designs
- Better sound design (compare the bang of Jills pistol to the wet fart of a pop of the pistols in RE2R
- Better pacing. It might be shorter, but the straightforwardness is more appreciated. No constant back and forth.
- Save room music and music in general which gives the game a sense of urgency adding to the glorious pacing and short length
- The rail gun
- Jills ass
Please continue to reference the below
Also, never.
EDIT: Also, just LOL @ Jill's ass in a series that has Claire's ass. Try again fam
 
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