I don't understand this mentality. If Capcom got RE4 right the first time, and it still holds up today, then what's the point in remaking it?
Remaking a game gives it a second chance to reach its potential, and seeing as to how Code Veronica basically fails at everything it attempted, a lot more would be gained by remaking it and doing it right.
I don't understand this mentality. If Capcom got RE4 right the first time, and it still holds up today, then what's the point in remaking it?
Remaking a game gives it a second chance to reach its potential, and seeing as to how Code Veronica basically fails at everything it attempted, a lot more would be gained by remaking it and doing it right.
Earth-cindering take:
Resident Evil 4 is not perfect and didn't get it right the first time.
Looking it purely from a gameplay perspective, it lags behind both Revelations games and you can tell when you play them back to back.
In terms of pacing, both Revelations are more consistent in at least pretending they're horror games. RE4, on the other hand, takes a left on Rambo Av. when you're halfway through the castle and by the end of the game you might as well be playing Gears of War.
What RE4 has that very few other entries in the series have is a godlike beginning chapters with the village being some of the best survival horror the franchise has ever produced.
A hypothetical REmake 4 would benefit from extending the island section, cutting in half the castle, and removing the island entirely.
Move the regenerators and Iron Maidens to the castle, remove those goddamn insects altogether, improve or remove the playable Ashley section, and the most importat part... NO QUICKTIME EVENTS.
I don't understand this mentality. If Capcom got RE4 right the first time, and it still holds up today, then what's the point in remaking it?
Remaking a game gives it a second chance to reach its potential, and seeing as to how Code Veronica basically fails at everything it attempted, a lot more would be gained by remaking it and doing it right.
So, I do believe that some points need to be criticized, while others need to be better understood.
- Jill's outfits: Using pre order for the original is a very bad move, and so is putting only one more extra. The new one is also kind of generic. As for the "social politics" discussion, please don't. There are other topics for that. RE shouldn't be one of them.
- Lack of certain locations: That is not something so important. The clock tower is short and doesn't hold up very well. It can be compensated by improving other locations.
- Lack of enemies: Also not a big issue. The ones present in there are enough, lickers are better than spiders (that were barely in the game).
- Lack of grave digger: That is an issue. Not the creature itself, but Nemesis is the only boss in the game. An adequate replacement would absolutely improve the gameplay and the story.
- Lack of mercenaries: The biggest issue. The mode is iconic to the original and the franchise, and Resistance does not make up for it at all.
- Runtime: It's not an issue alone, but simply because replaying it can be interesting with the new difficulties, that are an adequate replacement for the RNG elements and live selections. However, like I said, the lack of other bosses and other game modes takes away a lot of the fun from the replays. And extending too much certain locations might also be harmful.
Conclusion: The game should be approached with a rational mindset. It should not be said that "they ruined everything", but it shouldn't receive absolute praise either. Criticizing rationally the points that you disliked is the way to improve it. Especially since we can get mercenaries as DLC.
An example would be RE2 A/B campaigns. They didn't "ruin" the game, but I'm not just complaining because it was different from the original. It harms this game by itself. The story isn't consistent, Leon and Claire barely interact, and the B scenarios are basically the same thing (harming replay value).
Something isn't necessarily bad because it wasn't in the original (or lacking in the remake), but just because you're criticising the lack or execution of something, doesn't necessarily mean you're "crying because of nostalgia". It might be a valid point.
RE 3 is my favorite RE game for personal reasons. It helped me during tough times as a child, and now, as an adult that's still treating depression and anxiety, the game might help again.
So I ask you guys to be polite and rational while criticizing this game, pointing it's flaws and qualities with good arguments. Please. I know the internet is wild and shitty comments and "arguments" are all over the place. But I hope that at least for this topic, we can reach a rational conclusion that could potentially be seen by capcom as well.
Conclusion: The game should be approached with a rational mindset. It should not be said that "they ruined everything", but it shouldn't receive absolute praise either. Criticizing rationally the points that you disliked is the way to improve it. Especially since we can get mercenaries as DLC.
From everything that was shown and written so far, RE3 is one of those very rare games that are both very good and kinda disappointing at the same time. Not a masterpiece, but definitely not deserving all this "THE GAME IS A DUMPSTER FIRE, IT SUCKS, IT'S ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE" bullshit going on right now.
My biggest issue is the vast amount of creative liberties which they took when remaking the game. The end result is something that takes the main story premise and characters and builds a completely different game on top of that.
I'm sure I'll still enjoy the hell out of the game. It just... could've been a bit better.
From everything that was shown and written so far, RE3 is one of those very rare games that are both very good and kinda disappointing at the same time. Not a masterpiece, but definitely not deserving all this "THE GAME IS A DUMPSTER FIRE, IT SUCKS, IT'S ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE" bullshit going on right now.
My biggest issue is the vast amount of creative liberties which they took when remaking the game. The end result is something that takes the main story premise and characters and builds a completely different game on top of that.
I'm sure I'll still enjoy the hell out of the game. It just... could've been a bit better.
Honestly, this is always a problem nowadays. In RE2R it wasn't that much present, but this "approach" to criticism was still there.
People saying that the A/B scenarios completely ruined the game.
And people saying that if you criticize it, you're just a nostalgia crybaby and you should enjoy instead of complaining.
This "all or nothing" binary approach that is applied to any conversation nowdays is just really annoying. It turns potential discussions and constructive criticism into silly arguing that gets absolutely nowhere.
As for the liberty they took, I think it can be appreciated at times. Fleshing out Carlos, Jill and Nicholai. But some, I don't think it's nice. For example removing brad's death or the ending with no mention of other characters.
And the reason I think it's great and disappointing at the same time is because it is a very good game but it had the potential to be better and that is very clear. And this potential was possible to be implemented, thus, the disappointment.
My biggest issue is honestly the lack of mercenaries. Because it was a very fun mode with great rewards, it could be used to flesh out even more the other characters and it also allows you to diversify your approach during gameplay. I honestly hope Capcom listens and adds it as DLC.
To be fair, would you wanna deal with this shit? I surely wouldn't. And nowadays things might end up involving the government and shit, it's not a risk they want to take.
To be fair, would you wanna deal with this shit? I surely wouldn't. And nowadays things might end up involving the government and shit, it's not a risk they want to take.
RE 3 is my favorite RE game for personal reasons. It helped me during tough times as a child, and now, as an adult that's still treating depression and anxiety, the game might help again.
So I ask you guys to be polite and rational while criticizing this game, pointing it's flaws and qualities with good arguments. Please. I know the internet is wild and shitty comments and "arguments" are all over the place. But I hope that at least for this topic, we can reach a rational conclusion that could potentially be seen by capcom as well.
Been playing the game for a few hours. Last year, RE2 remake was one of my top games of the year, i must have replayed it at least 20 times.
So far, i've having a blast with the game, sure, it might not be the most faithful remake, but that doesnt make it bad at all. I haven't finished the game yet, nor do i know how far into it i am, but i already know that i will replay it as soon as i finish the first run, that's how much fun i'm having so far.
Developers: M-Two Inc. Publisher: Capcom Director: Kyohiko Sakata Producers: Peter Fabiano, Masachika Kawata Platforms: Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One Release date: April 3 2020 Genre: Survival horror/action horror Modes: Single-player A series of strange disappearances have been...
Well, here in Brazil it's possible. They banned a polemic song a few years ago.
Also china banned the manga boku no hero because one villain had the name of some figure that did terrible things to chinese people like in WW2 I guess. And it was just a name, no reference or images of any kind.
This kind of thing is very possible. Capcom could even be sued by making apology to rape.
Well, here in Brazil it's possible. They banned a polemic song a few years ago.
Also china banned the manga boku no hero because one villain had the name of some figure that did terrible things to chinese people like in WW2 I guess. And it was just a name, no reference or images of any kind.
This kind of thing is very possible. Capcom could even be sued by making apology to rape.
Been playing the game for a few hours. Last year, RE2 remake was one of my top games of the year, i must have replayed it at least 20 times.
So far, i've having a blast with the game, sure, it might not be the most faithful remake, but that doesnt make it bad at all. I haven't finished the game yet, nor do i know how far into it i am, but i already know that i will replay it as soon as i finish the first run, that's how much fun i'm having so far.
havent played it today yet today, but im taking it slowly, like i always do on first runs. i think i was 5 hours in when i turned off the ps4 last night.
still not sure what im going to do on this one. im okay with it being a bit short bc RE is all about replaying, speed runs, no herb runs, extra modes, costumes, etc. for me at least...
what i was not okay with in the RE2 remake was the zombie lunge. it was ridiculous ad annoying. i felt like they'd lunge a second or even third time in some instances, and the fuckers were like walking magnets. evading them or ding the ol get close and back up real quick manuever was so much harder. doing speed runs wasn't even fun like it was in the original.
i hated that and never actually played it again after beating it with leon and claire. there is so much more i wanted to do in that game but the zombies just pissed me off one too many times and i couldn't take it anymore.
ill have to try the demo to see if the zombies are better this time around, and if thats all good then ill buy it. RE3 was always my favorite anyway, so i know ill enjoy it.
Is this something that bothers anyone else about these games ( and maybe horror games in general? )?
When the protagonists are a bit '' too badass ''?
I think that in the case of Jill it does make sense that she's a lot more capable, but I mean just watching gameplay it's like she needs to have a '' fuck yeah '' line after everything or taunt the enemies.
I just think that it takes away from the horror and makes the enemies feel less threatening.
I mentioned before that there was a scene that made me laugh at Nemesis, and I think that I sorta realized that I was primed to do it by the game because of how Jill taunts Nemesis quite a lot.
And then combining that with Nemesis not being very hard to beat and only appearing in such small sections of the game, when I saw that scene it just made me laugh at him because he was being pushed around so much and Jill was basically throwing it in his face.
I guess that makes sense for a final fight for example, but it wasn't.
It was kinda like this in RE2R a little bit, but not even close to like in RE3R.
But I still felt like it was a problem in RE2R.
People usually make fun of people complaining about the swearing in the games and I get that some are just being puritan, but to me I think that in RE7, RE2R and RE3R in particular the problem is that the swearing is often done to taunt and for the sake of having these '' look at how badass our protagonist is, fuck yeah! '' moments.
And it feels so out of place to me.
People often defend the swearing by saying '' you'd be swearing too ''.
Okay, but would you be taunting a giant monster of doom who was chasing you?
It's like the protagonists don't treat the enemies like they're actually scary and like they're scared of them, so why should I as a player be?
Just something that RE3R made me think about, it actually made me realize why I didn't like some of it in RE2R and why I hated the protagonist in RE7.
Edit: Also, the Jill pre order costume looks awful.
It looks like she is wearing those shorts for children that Sherry wore in RE2R LOL........
I actually don't regret not pre-ordering at all anymore, that costume was why I wanted to pre-order.
still not sure what im going to do on this one. im okay with it being a bit short bc RE is all about replaying, speed runs, no herb runs, extra modes, costumes, etc. for me at least...
what i was not okay with in the RE2 remake was the zombie lunge. it was ridiculous ad annoying. i felt like they'd lunge a second or even third time in some instances, and the fuckers were like walking magnets. evading them or ding the ol get close and back up real quick manuever was so much harder. doing speed runs wasn't even fun like it was in the original.
i hated that and never actually played it again after beating it with leon and claire. there is so much more i wanted to do in that game but the zombies just pissed me off one too many times and i couldn't take it anymore.
ill have to try the demo to see if the zombies are better this time around, and if thats all good then ill buy it. RE3 was always my favorite anyway, so i know ill enjoy it.
The Zombies die easier, but I think that the lunge is the same.
Nemesis is very fast tho and he has a tentacle move that he can use at a distance to grab you.
The Zombies die easier, but I think that the lunge is the same.
Nemesis is very fast tho and he has a tentacle move that he can use at a distance to grab you.
oh yeah thats the other thing. i remember literally shooting a zombie int he head a couple times. down him. then walking up to him shooting him in the head 3 more times, while he was still on the ground, then he gets back up (!) i down him again, shoot him in the head like 4 or 5 times. and he gets back up... i was speechless, and i think i actually laughed at how absurd the whole thing was. and of course i had frustrations taking zombies down the whole game. so i tried just ignoring them or dodging them, which of course lead me back to my original problem
okay sorry im done bitchin now...
glad to know they die easier, that's a big improvement for me.
im pretty easy to please so ill probably still buy it one day. i am a bt concerned about how annoying nemesis is going to be. i know how capcom can be with their annoying bosses
Nothing screams "survival horror" quite like Jill making a tactical roll to dodge a Buick-size Kool-Aid man while entering bullet time.
RE4's influence can be felt to this day. And that is not a compliment. The village was so good (and it still is) that people forgave the game for how shit it becomes halfway through as it killed survival horror in the process.
Got the game since tuesday and beat it two times by now. First run was 6:15 and second 3:30.
I have to mention that I never played the original so I can't say anything about the cut content. Definitely enjoyed it a lot even tho the gameplay was more action and less survival as in RE2 remake. It was actually quite refreshing tbh.
I would say that if you consider only a single playthrough it's definitely not worth it's money.
But for me the incentive of the game comes also from beating the challenges and getting better with every playthrough. And I'm usually not the guy to replay games right away or at all.
Nothing screams "survival horror" quite like Jill making a tactical roll to dodge a Buick-size Kool-Aid man while entering bullet time.
RE4's influence can be felt to this day. And that is not a compliment. The village was so good (and it still is) that people forgave the game for how shit it becomes halfway through as it killed survival horror in the process.
I don't think that the issue is RE4 really.
And people praised RE7 for being true horror and really scary, but Ethan did this shit all the time way worse than ever before.
The game couldn't make its mind up if he was a super badass of doom or if he was just a normal guy.
People talk about relatability, but I don't really think that it's very relatable when the protagonist acts and talks like an actionhero most of the time.
Just because you throw in a few scenes where they don't and where they're scared doesn't change that really.
In RE3R it's like, is Nemesis scary and dangerous or isn't he?
Because Jill doesn't act like it at times, and it makes me as a player not think that he is either.
RE7 is really where I think this started, because the past RE's didn't try to be as scary and were more action.
But I don't think that the original games were like this either it's just the remakes.
RE7 is really where I think this started, because the past RE's didn't try to be as scary and were more action.
But I don't think that the original games were like this either it's just the remakes.
They were definitely trying to be scary. Hell, the original game was inspired by Alone in the Dark, the grandfather of the horror genre.
The remake came out just 3 years after Nemesis, with Shinji Mikami at the helm, and it remains one of the most haunting and finest survival horror games ever made.
This BS that "OG Resident Evil didn't try to be as scary and were more action" is revisionist pablum people uses to justify how terrible post-RE4-castle/island games in the series are.
I don't think that the issue is RE4 really.
And people praised RE7 for being true horror and really scary, but Ethan did this shit all the time way worse than ever before.
The game couldn't make its mind up if he was a super badass of doom or if he was just a normal guy.
People talk about relatability, but I don't really think that it's very relatable when the protagonist acts and talks like an actionhero most of the time.
Just because you throw in a few scenes where they don't and where they're scared doesn't change that really.
In RE3R it's like, is Nemesis scary and dangerous or isn't he?
Because Jill doesn't act like it at times, and it makes me as a player not think that he is either.
RE7 is really where I think this started, because the past RE's didn't try to be as scary and were more action.
But I don't think that the original games were like this either it's just the remakes.
RE1R was very creepy imo too, but in those games they didn't act like action heroes.
Sure the acting was bad, but they didn't try so hard to be '' badass ''.
I just think that the whole thing with them being edgy action heroes who taunt all of the time and say these '' fuck yeah '' lines ruins the horror.
It's not scary anymore because the protagonists are telling me that it's not scary, they're way too confident.
Ethan in RE7 was really where this escalated a lot but it has continued in the remakes of RE2 and RE3.
I just think that it's weird when we're supposed to be scared of these monsters but then the protagonist is all like '' WANT SOME MORE YOU FUCKING STUPID UGLY FUCK FACE SON OF A FUCKING BIATCH '' ( Jill literally calls Nemesis a '' biatch '' in the game btw ).
It sorta ruins the sense of panic and fear.
It's fine at the end, you say it for the big finale.
But when it happens all the time throughout the game it feels like the game is telling me that the protagonist is just an action hero who isn't afraid of anything so I don't have to be either.
If I was attacked by a big Zombie monster or a Zombie I wouldn't be like that if I got out alive, I'd be exhausted and happy and amazed to be alive.
I wouldn't be all like '' WOHOOOO STAY DOWN FUCK YO BIATCH I FAK U UP ''.
It just ruins the tone and atmosphere imo.
RE1R was still creepy because it didn't do that, it allowed the atmosphere to speak and do its thing.
If Jill and Chris acted like they do in these later games then RE1R wouldn't be scary I think.
They were definitely trying to be scary. Hell, the original game was inspired by Alone in the Dark, the grandfather of the horror genre.
The remake came out just 3 years after Nemesis, with Shinji Mikami at the helm, and it remains one of the most haunting and finest survival horror games ever made.
This BS that "OG Resident Evil didn't try to be as scary and were more action" is revisionist pablum people uses to justify how terrible post-RE4-castle/island games in the series are.
What I meant is that the original games ( RE1-3 ) were more horror, but after RE4 it went down an action route.
But I still think that RE4 was a great game, but I also don't think that they were trying to make that game scary in the same way.
It's about intent, the reason why I am talking about this is because they tried to make RE scary again in RE7 and now with the remakes too.
But the writing doesn't make it seem that way to me, the writing is still like if it's an RE4 game in a way.
Especially outside of cutscenes, but even in a lot of cutscenes the characters don't act like they're scared.
I mean sure Jill went through a lot in RE1, but she's still being chased by a big Zombie monster and is running for her life.
It comes across as tone deaf to me to have her call Nemesis a '' biatch '' and deliver all of these '' fuck yeah '' lines just meant to make her come across as '' cool ''.
That stuff belongs in a game like RE4 that is cheesier, not games that are trying to be serious and actually scary.
RE1R was very creepy imo too, but in those games they didn't act like action heroes.
Sure the acting was bad, but they didn't try so hard to be '' badass ''.
wat? He is talking about the original Biohazard for PS1. There are nothing close to that for that time.
Now, if you're talking about the REmake... wth you even mean by 'action heroes'? They're acting like two special force team tasked for a rescue mission after heard some bizzare 'canibalism' rumors, not a bunch of amateurs. Play REmake, choise Chris Redfiled and when the game start, examine the knife Chris have. This can give you an ideia.
I just think that the whole thing with them being edgy action heroes who taunt all of the time and say these '' fuck yeah '' lines ruins the horror.
It's not scary anymore because the protagonists are telling me that it's not scary, they're way too confident.
Ethan in RE7 was really where this escalated a lot but it has continued in the remakes of RE2 and RE3.
I just think that it's weird when we're supposed to be scared of these monsters but then the protagonist is all like '' WANT SOME MORE YOU FUCKING STUPID UGLY FUCK FACE SON OF A FUCKING BIATCH '' ( Jill literally calls Nemesis a '' biatch '' in the game btw ).
It sorta ruins the sense of panic and fear.
Adult quotes don't ruin the atmosphere. This happens all the time with horror movies. Maybe in your opinion. Normal people like Chris sister should panic. Special force members not.
wat? He is talking about the original Biohazard for PS1. There are nothing close to that for that time.
Now, if you're talking about the REmake... wth you even mean by 'action heroes'? They're acting like two special force team tasked for a rescue mission after heard some bizzare 'canibalism' rumors, not a bunch of amateurs. Play REmake, choise Chris Redfiled and when the game start, examine the knife Chris have. This can give you an ideia.
Adult quotes don't ruin the atmosphere. This happens all the time with horror movies. Maybe in your opinion. Normal people like Chris sister should panic. Special force members not.
I am saying that they DIDN'T act like actionheroes in the original RE1-RE3.
Yes the writing was silly and they were kinda goofy, but they didn't act like actionheroes.
I am not saying that they can't be capable or whatever, when I say '' actionhero '' I mean like in an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie or something.
I am pretty sure that Special Forces don't run around taunting their enemies in real life either and I am pretty sure that they're still very worked up when things are happening too.
I think that those kinds of people still have a lot of respect for the danger they're in, they don't toy with it or treat it like it's a movie. They take it very seriously.
Just because you are Special Forces doesn't mean that you're not human, and even Claire acted like an actionhero in RE2R too.
Not quite as bad, but there were still elements of that with her too.
It was less bad tho because it was mainly towards the end, so as a player you're kinda like '' lets finish this! '' too.
If this was real life, do you in all honesty believe that even a Special Forces person fighting and running from Nemesis and Zombies would be throwing out one-liners and taunts so much?
You can do it at the end, and I also think that it makes it more impactful if you save it for the end.
Sorta like the '' you want STARS? '' line in the original game. It was built up over the course of the game so it felt like it made more of an impact in the end.
But what if she did that all the time?
What if she delivered lines like those repeatedly? You don't think that it'd detract from the horror and make Nemesis and the Zombies feel less threatening?
It's not even about '' adult quotes '', there doesn't have to be any profanity.
There are lines in RE3R like this that don't involve profanity, it's about the attitude of the characters and how they act like they know that it's a video game and not like real people.
And just because it happens in horror movies doesn't make it any less stupid imo.
Like imagine if in the Ring for example the protagonist kept saying '' BRING IT ON SAMARA ( that's her name? ), I'LL FUCK YOU UP BIATCH ''.
You don't think that'd make her feel less scary and dangerous?
Edit: Also, a small spoiler from something you find in the game I guess which goes to this point.
There's a special forces guy in the game who commits suicide, you find his body and a note about it. Special forces people still feel fear, they're not superhuman. I guess he should've taunted the monsters some more and had some more one-liners ready to go?
The dialogue imo should reflect what the characters are feeling. And the dialogue is written in a way to make it seem like they're not scared at all.
So why should I be?
He actually kinda talked a bit about what I mentioned above too.
Jill is supposed to have PTSD from the Spencer Mansion, but she doesn't act like it at all.
She barely reacts in a way you'd imagine a person does at all let alone someone suffering from PTSD.
Just seeing a cutscene at the beginning of the game really isn't enough, nothing outside of that reflects that at all in fact it does quite the opposite and just ignores that and treats it as if she walked out of the Spencer Mansion totally unaffected.
At 3:13, I mean that's basically her attitude throughout.
If people can't see the problem here and what I am getting at then I dunno what else to say.
And I don't even like narrative driven games or care about this stuff most of the time, but people who do can't seem to see what I am so clearly seeing?
The most we get out of her is '' fucking gross ''.
A game being short doesn't insult me like it does with most people. I am actually happy I have a short game to play through. Maybe you value the game cost to playthrough time more than me, but I never replay long games anymore, but shorter ones are great for that.
I don't care much a lot has been reimagined or cut. I still have the original game if I want to play the original game. The fact it isn't a direct remake is interesting and feels like I'm playing a brand new experience. I don't see areas as being cut when the game as a whole is largely different anyway. It's more of a remaining compared to RE1 and 2 Remakes.
I'm also not fussed about Nemesis. If Mr X hadn't have been incorporated into REmake 2 the way he was then yes I would be a bit more upset. However, I don't really want that style of gameplay over 2 games. I think this Nemesis works better as the genre leans into action territory more.
I love the way I'm quickly going through areas and tearing shit up. It feels great to play and I'm loving this game for what it is instead of hating it for what it isn't. Resi3 leaned to action on the PS1 and I'm glad they've stuck to that on this adaptation.
I just think Capcom set the wrong expectation with their last 2 Remakes. This one breaks the formula. I have embraced the change and am quite enjoying myself.
Godawful story, terrible characters, over-the-top action scenes, busted gameplay, poor controls, etc. It was the game where the series completely jumped the shark. It has its moments but it is the worst mainline game in the series by a wide margin.
