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Resident Evil 4 VR announced (Oculus Quest 2)

Romulus

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Hey, Capcom just about got Monster Hunter World onto Switch with Rise, you never know what magic can come from RE Engine...

While the XR2 is easily more powerful than the switch, the game could barely run on PS4, which is far more powerful than Quest 2. It had to run at an almost unacceptable resolution to maintain the framerate on base ps4. Pro was serviceable, but that's like 8x more powerful than Quest 2
 
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Alexios

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Just saw the oculus showcase with more gameplay. Looks really fucking good. They're taking this port very seriously. I'll upload the vid when it becomes available.
It does look pretty rad. The previous video was good enough already but now seeing they even made things like drawers manually interactive, it's basically like a made for VR game like Saints & Sinners now! It was funny they spoke of the remastered textures when a really blocky one was in view.

It was a nice showcase, I'm hyped for Saints & Sinners content (though at first I got excited thinking it's a full expansion) and After the Fall is starting to look promising but I expected many more if they bothered to make a gaming show rather than just drop the announcements as they come or whatever. There were like 10 announcements and a handful as content/updates or behind the scenes for existing games. At least that also means they didn't get many more exclusives (still hoping that this one will eventually be announced for more platforms) so that's a plus as a PCVR gamer.
 
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Tygeezy

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Playing fps in vr and move with stick, instant nausea right there lol, vr will never take off if they dont solve motion sickness.
It’s clear you haven’t played an FPS game in VR. Most people do in fact use left stick to move and a lot of people even use right stick to turn. If you crank up the turn speed on the right stick and don’t focus on an object while turning (just like in regular gaming) you don’t get sick.

It’s easy to play this way sitting down. In fact a lot of people like playing FPS vr games sitting down. While others will play in a large play space and not use stick to move at all by just walking.

Vr is already taking off. There is no “they need to solve this before it can be successful.”
 
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CamHostage

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It does look pretty rad. The previous video was good enough already but now seeing they even made things like drawers manually interactive, it's basically like a made for VR game like Saints & Sinners now!

Sorry, but I'm still the dissenter here. RE4 VR continues to disappoint IMO. Low framerate (on video, at least?), inconsistent graphic upgrades, bizarre "mobility" choices, unbalanced challenge (they say they've tweaked the difficulty but also brag that the animations are the same, meaning you can headshot like a sharpshooter with the improved aiming yet enemies have no new movements to throw off your aim or strike at you quicker?), and poor adaptations of mechanics into VR (hopefully it's temporary, but the exciting original sequence of Leon somersaulting out a window needs way, way more than just hitch of delay as you clip through the model to move from outside to inside) are all the wrong way to convert a game for VR play.

There are already good games in the space this will be competing for, I would rather have seen Capcom put that effort into making a real Quest-caliber VR RE game (even maybe a Resident Evil 4 side-game with the same setting and some recycled visuals but none of the anchors of the old game in new VR shoes.) They have the brand and the developer and the clout, but I feel you can see in this presentation that they took things in the wrong direction.
 
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Tygeezy

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Sorry, but I'm still the dissenter here. RE4 VR continues to disappoint IMO. Low framerate (on video, at least?), inconsistent graphic upgrades, bizarre "mobility" choices, unbalanced challenge (they say they've tweaked the difficulty but also brag that the animations are the same, meaning you can headshot like a sharpshooter with the improved aiming yet enemies have no new movements to throw off your aim or strike at you quicker?), and poor adaptations of mechanics into VR (hopefully it's temporary, but the exciting original sequence of Leon somersaulting out a window needs way, way more than just hitch of delay as you clip through the model to move from outside to inside) are all the wrong way to convert a game for VR play.
It’s not going to be 30 FPS on quest 2. It’s going to be at minimum 72 FPS but possibly also 90 FPS. What’s wrong with the mobility choices? Using lefts stick to move is standard and there is roomscale options if you have a large play space to move like you do in the really world. There is also teleport for people that haven’t built up vr legs.

They have covered all the bases as far as movement goes. They even have snap and smooth turn and you can crank up turn speed.

Also, poor adaption of VR mechanics? Have you played a vr game before? You can open drawers and loot like the best vr games and you can draw weapons from a holster..

Your complaints about accuracy is interesting because consoles have refused to adopt motion controls and instead claim “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” when it’s clearly broken seeing as you have to have the game help you aim (aim assist).
 
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SF Kosmo

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Playing fps in vr and move with stick, instant nausea right there lol, vr will never take off if they dont solve motion sickness.
Most people have no problem with this and most of the rest are able to get their legs with some practice. The vast majority of people play with free locomotion in these games but the teleport stuff is there for those that need it.
 
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01011001

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It’s clear you haven’t played an FPS game in VR. Most people do in fact use left stick to move and a lot of people even use right stick to turn. If you crank up the turn speed on the right stick and don’t focus on an object while turning (just like in regular gaming) you don’t get sick.

It’s easy to play this way sitting down. In fact a lot of people like playing FPS vr games sitting down. While others will play in a large play space and not use stick to move at all by just walking.

Vr is already taking off. There is no “they need to solve this before it can be successful.”

I played many first person VR games with stick movement and smooth turning on the right stick. I have no issue.
I get more motion sick with a low FOV on a TV.

I played RIGS on PSVR with all the "motion sick prevention" stuff turned completely off. that's a game where you jump and fly around an arena in a battle mech. and every time you get destroyed you get ejected up into the air, fly to a respawn point and drop down again. all in First Person, all with full camera control.

so basically, Resident Evil 8 on console, which going by the demo will have no FOV settings and has a very low FOV, will give me motion sickness before RE4 VR, and it's not even close.
getting ejected into the air at rapid speed and jumpint around in a battlefield in VR = I'm fine
Resident Evil 8 demo on PS4 with like 70° FOV and no options to change = light nausea

I can't play the original 360 version of Halo 3 anymore for the same reason... thank god they added FOV settings to the MCC versions of all Halo games!
 
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Romulus

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Sorry, but I'm still the dissenter here. RE4 VR continues to disappoint IMO. Low framerate (on video, at least?), inconsistent graphic upgrades, bizarre "mobility" choices, unbalanced challenge (they say they've tweaked the difficulty but also brag that the animations are the same, meaning you can headshot like a sharpshooter with the improved aiming yet enemies have no new movements to throw off your aim or strike at you quicker?), and poor adaptations of mechanics into VR (hopefully it's temporary, but the exciting original sequence of Leon somersaulting out a window needs way, way more than just hitch of delay as you clip through the model to move from outside to inside) are all the wrong way to convert a game for VR play.

There are already good games in the space this will be competing for, I would rather have seen Capcom put that effort into making a real Quest-caliber VR RE game (even maybe a Resident Evil 4 side-game with the same setting and some recycled visuals but none of the anchors of the old game in new VR shoes.) They have the brand and the developer and the clout, but I feel you can see in this presentation that they took things in the wrong direction.



Bizarre mobility? How? You have options and none are forced.
Unbalanced? How do you know what they've done exactly? You gave a half example without knowing what's being done.
Inconsistent graphic upgrades? Like what? Seems it got some textures reworked or higher resolution, didn't say anything about half the levels getting it and the other half not.
Poor adaptations of VR? Then you talk about Leon jumping out of a window? What?
Low framerate? Won't happen, the video is 30fps and none of that will be representative. It'll be higher than any console release easily and it's being reworked as such to address the problems with higher framerates. States it in the video.
 
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Shai-Tan

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Wait does revive no longer work?
Revive is only for Rift games not Quest. Going forward (after in dev games like Lone Echo II come out) I think all their funded games will be Quest exclusive

edit: just realized I was responding to an old post
 
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Tygeezy

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Bizarre mobility? How? You have options and none are forced.
Unbalanced? How do you know what they've done exactly? You gave a half example without knowing what's being done.
Inconsistent graphic upgrades? Like what? Seems it got some textures reworked or higher resolution, didn't say anything about half the levels getting it and the other half not.
Poor adaptations of VR? Then you talk about Leon jumping out of a window? What?
Low framerate? Won't happen, the video is 30fps and none of that will be representative. It'll be higher than any console release easily and it's being reworked as such to address the problems with higher framerates. States it in the video.
I only remember people praising the wii version for superior controls which are similar to VR controllers using infrared. They also mentioned the assets were ported to unreal engine 4. So this is pretty much a ground up job being in a completely new engine with new assets.
 

onnextflix5

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It’s clear you haven’t played an FPS game in VR. Most people do in fact use left stick to move and a lot of people even use right stick to turn. If you crank up the turn speed on the right stick and don’t focus on an object while turning (just like in regular gaming) you don’t get sick.

It’s easy to play this way sitting down. In fact a lot of people like playing FPS vr games sitting down. While others will play in a large play space and not use stick to move at all by just walking.

Vr is already taking off. There is no “they need to solve this before it can be successful.”
Played lots mate, one time was i had headache for whole week, out of 10 guys that tried my quest, 6 of them were sick, u guys core gamers, u might be able handle it, for a lot of us, its not worth the pain.
 

Romulus

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Played lots mate, one time was i had headache for whole week, out of 10 guys that tried my quest, 6 of them were sick, u guys core gamers, u might be able handle it, for a lot of us, its not worth the pain.

Right. I've demoed VR to hundreds. Only had a few people get sick and it was extremely mild.
 
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Tygeezy

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Played lots mate, one time was i had headache for whole week, out of 10 guys that tried my quest, 6 of them were sick, u guys core gamers, u might be able handle it, for a lot of us, its not worth the pain.
It’s more about how prone you are to motion sickness in general. Gamers aren’t some special breed of athlete that can handle simulations better than the general public.
 

01011001

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It’s more about how prone you are to motion sickness in general. Gamers aren’t some special breed of athlete that can handle simulations better than the general public.

well I think if you start playing from a young age that it can help getting used to it. but yeah. it's random. and for me it got a bit worse the older I get. as I said in an earlier post, I almost can't play the original 360 version of Halo 3 anymore, because the combination of 30fps and an FOV of 70° makes me feel a bit nauseated after a while.
 

LittleWing

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Played lots mate, one time was i had headache for whole week, out of 10 guys that tried my quest, 6 of them were sick, u guys core gamers, u might be able handle it, for a lot of us, its not worth the pain.
I'm new to VR, don't have motion sickness. Didn't need to build up any tolerance. Half way through Doom 3 BFG PCVR mod using full locomotion, smooth turn, it's gorgeous. Some people just dont' experience the motion sickness. Snap turning I find more uncomfortable and teleport is jarring.
 
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01011001

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I'm new to VR, don't have motion sickness. Didn't need to build up any tolerance. Half way through Doom 3 BFG PCVR mod using full locomotion, smooth turn, it's gorgeous. Some people just dont' experience the motion sickness. Snap turning I find more uncomfortable and teleport is jarring.

yeah I can't stand teleporting and snap turning either. gimme full FPS controls + VR motion stuff
 

CamHostage

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It’s not going to be 30 FPS on quest 2.

Yeah, obviously it's not going to be 30FPS -- but it ain't better than that now, according to this video. And in the presentation, Oculus specifically said they "improved support for running the game at a higher framerate than the original 30 frames per second, and fixed many bugs that the 60fps versions of the game had," which does not give much optimism for this hoped-for 90fps. (By contract, Quest apparently requires 72fps to get on Quest, but there are ways to get the display up to framerate without having every aspect of the engine match the display speed.)

Oculus may have crappy footage (for unknown reasons, none of these videos in the Showcase are 60FPS,) but this VR version of game has been in the works for several years, according to Oculus, it should be running much better by now even in "pre-alpha" footage.

What’s wrong with the mobility choices? Using lefts stick to move is standard and there is roomscale options if you have a large play space to move like you do in the really world. There is also teleport for people that haven’t built up vr legs.

The control is fine, I'm talking about the Teleport mechanics. It looks bizarre and clumsy, turning RE4 into like a realtime chess game of click-and-stop-and-pop. You're constantly zooming in and out of a disembodied character for first-person looking but third-person movement. It might have worked if you had just stayed up above, looking in on the game as an omniscient VR observer ala Moss, but it's a horror game, so every time you're cutting away from your character, the things out there that are supposed to be coming up behind you are now visible because you are not intimately connected with your character when they move spots.

poor adaption of VR mechanics? Have you played a vr game before? You can open drawers and loot like the best vr games and you can draw weapons from a holster..

That's not what I'm talking about (though opening drawers with a sparkler marker doesn't make it good VR, it just turns a button-press into a physical animation; if they had made every drawer able to be opened, that'd be impressive, but of course it'd also drag the game into an endless slog of checking drawers.) I specified that things like the window transition mechanic was sloppy (or basically nonexistent.) You just clip through the window (in this pre-alpha version, at least.) They account for the original play mechanics of a window jump with a slight lag in the transition, to make it so windows cost a bit of time to move through. That keeps the play flow essentially the same as the original, but it's obviously nowhere near as thrilling or visually compelling as the original window dash. Probably they'll put some falling glass in, maybe they'll narrow your view a bit so it looks like you're superman-leaping through the window, something like that, but for now, there's nothing but an animation pause

Your complaints about accuracy is interesting because consoles have refused to adopt motion controls and instead claim “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” when it’s clearly broken seeing as you have to have the game help you aim (aim assist).

I'm not here to fight over motion controls, they're an interesting and novel way to play games, but aim accuracy isn't just automatically the answer to good gameplay.

It's not supposed to be easy to shoot everybody in Resident Evil 4, it's supposed to be frightening and pulse-quickening. Headshotting Ganados at a distance with a shotgun in rapid succession thanks to the ease of VR control in first-person, that's different than the drift of a controller or even the increased targeting speed of a Wiimote. Those are different experiences. The original game had mechanics designed for what your character could and couldn't do, and those mechanics were used to tune the levels. The pop in and out of the aim view in RE4 is part of the pacing, where you cannot move because you have taken a stance to shoot. (Later REs gave you a bit of slow-step motion while aiming, but not RE4, and it's always very measured.) Here, they show movement with your gun drawn and even some run-and-gun movements (although the moving-while-aiming may be limited to only small dodge moves and adjustments of position while in a shooting stance.) RE4 always did take some criticism for being more action than terror, but the mechanics still freaked you out as you were overwhelmed by enemies with only very specific character abilities to make use of. Now in VR, I'm worried that it's crossed fully into shootin' gallery, and that there's not enough they can do (especially given that they want to be so "faithful" to the original) to balance that out.

It's fine if the game plays at its own pace and with its own difficulty balance, but then why call it "Resident Evil 4" if it doesn't play like Resident Evil 4? And why remake RE4 when you can make a great VR game for Quest specs in the Resident Evil universe (and even the RE4 timeline) for somewhere near the degree of effort it took to make RE4 in a generally incompatible format?

-- -- -- -- --

Inconsistent graphic upgrades? Like what? Seems it got some textures reworked or higher resolution, didn't say anything about half the levels getting it and the other half not.

Come on, can listen to what the presenters tell you, or you can look with your eyes. Sure, textures are reworked, but candles and fireplaces still don't cast light. Your flashlight is still a primitive cone projection. BG trees and fences and other barrier elements are still sometimes 2D splines or simple geometry not meant to be seen easily from all angles, making them stick out in VR. Guns don't look like they hold up to the level of detail needed to maintain scrutiny when right up to your face in a first-person (although they can't stick out as high-quality either since everything needs to be somewhere in the range of a moderately improved 15-year-old GC game.) It's true that lots of the visual quality will blend differently when you actually stick your face into this VR world (and the game is still unfinished, although it's also several years into being ported,) but none of the work that's gone into overhauling this game visually is making an impression on me in the video they're showing of it.

I'm not nitpicking it to be a complainer, I'm genuinely disappointed by this game not being done right IMO. It's still a blocky GameCube game, and VR brings out many of the aspects cleverly hidden in the old game to maintain a coherent and high visual quality. That inconsistent visual quality, coupled with questionable solutions to the technical challenge of converting the refined original play mechanics to more open VR mechanics, that's leaving me disappointed that they didn't do a proper Quest Resident Evil. The things I don't like in what I'm seeing here are indicative of what can go wrong when you try to mash the square peg of a TV game into the round hole of VR, and it's not a trend I'm eager to see continue given that familiar port-overs from established old games will probably be a more frequent occurrence if games like this prove more popular than games made (or at heart more compatible with, in original concept) for VR.
 
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Wonko_C

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Played lots mate, one time was i had headache for whole week, out of 10 guys that tried my quest, 6 of them were sick, u guys core gamers, u might be able handle it, for a lot of us, its not worth the pain.
Don't try pushing through, it only makes it worse. Stop as soon as you feel a little discomfort, even if you start feeling it building up just after few minutes of playing. The next day it will take longer for you to start feeling bad. In a couple of weeks I went from 5 minute tops sessions in Resident Evil 7 to a couple of hours without feeling ill.

Having a fan blowing air to your face helps too.
 
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Tygeezy

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Yeah, obviously it's not going to be 30FPS -- but it ain't better than that now, according to this video. And in the presentation, Oculus specifically said they "improved support for running the game at a higher framerate than the original 30 frames per second, and fixed many bugs that the 60fps versions of the game had," which does not give much optimism for this hoped-for 90fps. (By contract, Quest apparently requires 72fps to get on Quest, but there are ways to get the display up to framerate without having every aspect of the engine match the display speed.)

Oculus may have crappy footage (for unknown reasons, none of these videos in the Showcase are 60FPS,) but this VR version of game has been in the works for several years, according to Oculus, it should be running much better by now even in "pre-alpha" footage.



The control is fine, I'm talking about the Teleport mechanics. It looks bizarre and clumsy, turning RE4 into like a realtime chess game of click-and-stop-and-pop. You're constantly zooming in and out of a disembodied character for first-person looking but third-person movement. It might have worked if you had just stayed up above, looking in on the game as an omniscient VR observer ala Moss, but it's a horror game, so every time you're cutting away from your character, the things out there that are supposed to be coming up behind you are now visible because you are not intimately connected with your character when they move spots.



That's not what I'm talking about (though opening drawers with a sparkler marker doesn't make it good VR, it just turns a button-press into a physical animation; if they had made every drawer able to be opened, that'd be impressive, but of course it'd also drag the game into an endless slog of checking drawers.) I specified that things like the window transition mechanic was sloppy (or basically nonexistent.) You just clip through the window (in this pre-alpha version, at least.) They account for the original play mechanics of a window jump with a slight lag in the transition, to make it so windows cost a bit of time to move through. That keeps the play flow essentially the same as the original, but it's obviously nowhere near as thrilling or visually compelling as the original window dash. Probably they'll put some falling glass in, maybe they'll narrow your view a bit so it looks like you're superman-leaping through the window, something like that, but for now, there's nothing but an animation pause



I'm not here to fight over motion controls, they're an interesting and novel way to play games, but aim accuracy isn't just automatically the answer to good gameplay.

It's not supposed to be easy to shoot everybody in Resident Evil 4, it's supposed to be frightening and pulse-quickening. Headshotting Ganados at a distance with a shotgun in rapid succession thanks to the ease of VR control in first-person, that's different than the drift of a controller or even the increased targeting speed of a Wiimote. Those are different experiences. The original game had mechanics designed for what your character could and couldn't do, and those mechanics were used to tune the levels. The pop in and out of the aim view in RE4 is part of the pacing, where you cannot move because you have taken a stance to shoot. (Later REs gave you a bit of slow-step motion while aiming, but not RE4, and it's always very measured.) Here, they show movement with your gun drawn and even some run-and-gun movements (although the moving-while-aiming may be limited to only small dodge moves and adjustments of position while in a shooting stance.) RE4 always did take some criticism for being more action than terror, but the mechanics still freaked you out as you were overwhelmed by enemies with only very specific character abilities to make use of. Now in VR, I'm worried that it's crossed fully into shootin' gallery, and that there's not enough they can do (especially given that they want to be so "faithful" to the original) to balance that out.

It's fine if the game plays at its own pace and with its own difficulty balance, but then why call it "Resident Evil 4" if it doesn't play like Resident Evil 4? And why remake RE4 when you can make a great VR game for Quest specs in the Resident Evil universe (and even the RE4 timeline) for somewhere near the degree of effort it took to make RE4 in a generally incompatible format?

-- -- -- -- --



Come on, can listen to what the presenters tell you, or you can look with your eyes. Sure, textures are reworked, but candles and fireplaces still don't cast light. Your flashlight is still a primitive cone projection. BG trees and fences and other barrier elements are still sometimes 2D splines or simple geometry not meant to be seen easily from all angles, making them stick out in VR. Guns don't look like they hold up to the level of detail needed to maintain scrutiny when right up to your face in a first-person (although they can't stick out as high-quality either since everything needs to be somewhere in the range of a moderately improved 15-year-old GC game.) It's true that lots of the visual quality will blend differently when you actually stick your face into this VR world (and the game is still unfinished, although it's also several years into being ported,) but none of the work that's gone into overhauling this game visually is making an impression on me in the video they're showing of it.

I'm not nitpicking it to be a complainer, I'm genuinely disappointed by this game not being done right IMO. It's still a blocky GameCube game, and VR brings out many of the aspects cleverly hidden in the old game to maintain a coherent and high visual quality. That inconsistent visual quality, coupled with questionable solutions to the technical challenge of converting the refined original play mechanics to more open VR mechanics, that's leaving me disappointed that they didn't do a proper Quest Resident Evil. The things I don't like in what I'm seeing here are indicative of what can go wrong when you try to mash the square peg of a TV game into the round hole of VR, and it's not a trend I'm eager to see continue given that familiar port-overs from established old games will probably be a more frequent occurrence if games like this prove more popular than games made (or at heart more compatible with, in original concept) for VR.
So you know it won’t be 30 FPS yet you’re going to complain about it being low frame rate even though you know it will be minimum 72 FPS all because the video was broadcasted in standard 30 FPS? That’s not very sound logic.

Did you also complain about how accurate the controls were for the wii version?

The reason it shows a run animation in their person during a teleport is so teleport doesn’t have a big advantage by being able to skip all over the level. Teleport movement is optional.

How do you know they didn’t make every drawer accessible? You even have that covered to complain about it by calling it a slog if you could.

Honestly, your complaints about the game come off as nitpicking, and trying to be contrarian, and it appears you don’t have much experience with VR. Very simple graphics look impressive in VR such as ancient dungeon vr



https://www.oculus.com/experiences/app/4897577166950223/?utm_source=oculus&utm_medium=share

But look incredible in VR because it’s all in 3D and you feel like you’re in the game.
 
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Romulus

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Yeah nitpicking for real. I just don't see it. Teleportation is an option but hes acting like that's some forced mechanic. I don't see any visual inconsistency either. Mostly looks like an old game reworked.
But then again he likes playing the "I'm a VR fan, really" but hes always on the forefront of VR negativity.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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VR just doesn't work for games that require you to move around.

Especially games like RE4 that were not designed from the ground up to use VR as its main means of interaction.
It doesn't matter how much they adapt the game for VR, it will still look like a shoehorned solution, like fitting a square block into a triangular hole.

VR works well for arcade on-the-rails shooters and games that you're sitting both in-game and outside the game (e.g. Ace Combat, racing games)
Otherwise it really requires those hacks like teleporting or you requiring to move around with the help of an analog stick.

VR will never be worthwhile if companies continue to focus on trying to adapt games that were never designed for VR to work on VR by brute force.
They should instead focus on making games that can only be experienced on a VR headset, making use of is strenghts.
 

CamHostage

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So you know it won’t be 30 FPS yet you’re going to complain about it being low frame rate even though you know it will be minimum 72 FPS all because the video was broadcasted in standard 30 FPS? That’s not very sound logic.

Did you watch the video, or are you just attacking my comments because I said something negative about a VR game?

The 30 FPS of the YT video isn't the problem; the gameplay itself is running at sub-30 in this footage. It moves in chunky bits and has lots of stutters (some because the original GameCube 30FPS animation sequences are often retained rather than replaced with full physics or blended motion.)

Look at the motion in the clip where he's in a gunfight in town, the weird slowdown at the beginning (which maybe Oculus added as an effect? then timed the audio back up to the crummy footage?), the jerky motion when the gun/camera tracks along a diagonal path or how the laser moves in off-framerate digital steps instead of a smooth bead tracked to the motion in the final shotgun blast on the roof. The framerate and legacy animation cycle also takes a huge toll on immersion as the character runs down the bridge here or as the camera comes around the corner.

That's not Youtube screwing up the footage, that's the game exhibiting performance issues. (Or, it's Oculus showing miserably wrecked footage of a game that doesn't look nearly this bad back at the lab, which would be nice if it were the case...)

Did you also complain about how accurate the controls were for the wii version?
No, because it was still third-person and still balanced. And shooting was more accurate, but not THAT accurate. It was still a stop-and-pop game, with two different camera systems between aiming and running to create a play flow and a balance of tactics between when to run and when to shoot. RE4 VR adds a lot of FPS elements to the controls, beyond just the first-person perspective.

You can move while shooting. That is not just about accuracy, that is a change to the fundamental game design.

How do you know they didn’t make every drawer accessible?

Because they show how it works in the video.
When something has context-sensitive activity attached to it, a sparkling indicator appears on the object. It's on drawers, it's on ammo pickups, it's on the crank that you turn... it all works the same as it did on the GameCube, why are you thinking it would be different?
(I didn't bring up drawers, that was your idea about how that added to the reality of the world, that's fine if you like how that adds to the feel, all I said was that those drawers were there before and they did a a simple transposing of buttons to motion commands. Drawers opened on GC too, as did cabinets and chests and at least one stove... probably the same drawers will open, even, as it'd make sense to keep most items where they were if the idea is to remake the game in earnest.)

Honestly, your complaints about the game come off as nitpicking... {it'll} look incredible in VR because it’s all in 3D and you feel like you’re in the game.

Hey, here's Super Mario 1 in VR, and it's in 3D and you feel like you're in the game. Does it look incredible? Are its nits invulnerable to being picked?


...Yes, I'm nitpicking to a degree (and they can fix a lot of what I'm concerned about with RE4 VR,) but they are valid nitpicks and concerns. RE4 VR is the biggest game out of that Oculus Showcase show, and it should have been the most impressive game of the showcase since it had the biggest name and the largest spotlight, but instead it came off as a bad idea and a good reason not to get into VR if 15-year-old, brand-name games look crummy in it.

If you believe that the point of a thread about a VR game on GAF is to only say good things about it and to consider "sort-of-shitty" as good enough because VR isn't worth doing better, you're not helping VR get over and you're not giving credit to the good VR product that deserves to be spoken highly of.
 
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Shai-Tan

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VR just doesn't work for games that require you to move around.

Especially games like RE4 that were not designed from the ground up to use VR as its main means of interaction.
It doesn't matter how much they adapt the game for VR, it will still look like a shoehorned solution, like fitting a square block into a triangular hole.

VR works well for arcade on-the-rails shooters and games that you're sitting both in-game and outside the game (e.g. Ace Combat, racing games)
Otherwise it really requires those hacks like teleporting or you requiring to move around with the help of an analog stick.

VR will never be worthwhile if companies continue to focus on trying to adapt games that were never designed for VR to work on VR by brute force.
They should instead focus on making games that can only be experienced on a VR headset, making use of is strenghts.

motion sickness is a barrier but most people get over it if they persist. Other than that there’s nothing inherently wrong with stick locomotion in vr. I’ve played loads of games like that.

Some games have movement that for whatever reason induces more sickness e.g. Wolfenstein Cyberpilot while others are mostly fine. I’m sure Oculus developers can figure out the difference
 

Tygeezy

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Did you watch the video, or are you just attacking my comments because I said something negative about a VR game?

The 30 FPS of the YT video isn't the problem; the gameplay itself is running at sub-30 in this footage. It moves in chunky bits and has lots of stutters (some because the original GameCube 30FPS animation sequences are often retained rather than replaced with full physics or blended motion.)

Look at the motion in the clip where he's in a gunfight in town, the weird slowdown at the beginning (which maybe Oculus added as an effect? then timed the audio back up to the crummy footage?), the jerky motion when the gun/camera tracks along a diagonal path or how the laser moves in off-framerate digital steps instead of a smooth bead tracked to the motion in the final shotgun blast on the roof. The framerate and legacy animation cycle also takes a huge toll on immersion as the character runs down the bridge here or as the camera comes around the corner.

That's not Youtube screwing up the footage, that's the game exhibiting performance issues. (Or, it's Oculus showing miserably wrecked footage of a game that doesn't look nearly this bad back at the lab, which would be nice if it were the case...)


No, because it was still third-person and still balanced. And shooting was more accurate, but not THAT accurate. It was still a stop-and-pop game, with two different camera systems between aiming and running to create a play flow and a balance of tactics between when to run and when to shoot. RE4 VR adds a lot of FPS elements to the controls, beyond just the first-person perspective.

You can move while shooting. That is not just about accuracy, that is a change to the fundamental game design.



Because they show how it works in the video.
When something has context-sensitive activity attached to it, a sparkling indicator appears on the object. It's on drawers, it's on ammo pickups, it's on the crank that you turn... it all works the same as it did on the GameCube, why are you thinking it would be different?
(I didn't bring up drawers, that was your idea about how that added to the reality of the world, that's fine if you like how that adds to the feel, all I said was that those drawers were there before and they did a a simple transposing of buttons to motion commands. Drawers opened on GC too, as did cabinets and chests and at least one stove... probably the same drawers will open, even, as it'd make sense to keep most items where they were if the idea is to remake the game in earnest.)



Hey, here's Super Mario 1 in VR, and it's in 3D and you feel like you're in the game. Does it look incredible? Are its nits invulnerable to being picked?


...Yes, I'm nitpicking to a degree (and they can fix a lot of what I'm concerned about with RE4 VR,) but they are valid nitpicks and concerns. RE4 VR is the biggest game out of that Oculus Showcase show, and it should have been the most impressive game of the showcase since it had the biggest name and the largest spotlight, but instead it came off as a bad idea and a good reason not to get into VR if 15-year-old, brand-name games look crummy in it.

If you believe that the point of a thread about a VR game on GAF is to only say good things about it and to consider "sort-of-shitty" as good enough because VR isn't worth doing better, you're not helping VR get over and you're not giving credit to the good VR product that deserves to be spoken highly of.
The game is on unreal engine 4 which is a staple engine for vr games. It doesn’t have smooth motion because the video is 30 FPS... The game is likely running at either 72 FPS or 90 FPS because that’s a requirement. A lot of times capturing that footage and dropping frames won’t present the smoothest video. That’s far from a resident evil 4 problem.

I’m criticizing your arguments because they are poor arguments. I’m not just defending the game because it’s in VR.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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motion sickness is a barrier but most people get over it if they persist. Other than that there’s nothing inherently wrong with stick locomotion in vr. I’ve played loads of games like that.
I was not referring to motion sickness, I was referring to limitations of moving around.

VR sells the idea of putting the user in a "higher state of presence" within the game world.
They put your eyes inside the game world, as if you're really there.

But all that falls flat when something as basic as moving around cannot be performed without restrictions.
Which completely undervalues the idea of VR, of not being able to make use of that presence for anything other than moving your hands and head, and maybe moving around one or two feet away from your current position.

That's why VR games ideally should take into account that limitation of movement, and be designed from the ground up with the expectation that the player will not be able to move at all.

Unfortunately people don't want to admit that VR is very limited in that regard, which is a shame, since acknowledging that limitation is the first step towards making better VR experiences.
 
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CamHostage

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The game is on unreal engine 4 which is a staple engine for vr games. It doesn’t have smooth motion because the video is 30 FPS... The game is likely running at either 72 FPS or 90 FPS because that’s a requirement. A lot of times capturing that footage and dropping frames won’t present the smoothest video. That’s far from a resident evil 4 problem.

Ok? Every other game in the Oculus Showcase ran perfectly smooth, and that's not really how video capture works (you're sampling at intervals, and especially if it's at a divisible ratio of 90-to-30FPS, a downconvert should be as smooth as the lower rate allows,) but sure, maybe something could be incompatible between the VR framerate of RE4 and the capture equipment, or Oculus screwed something up with the recording.

Whatever though, we both agree that they'll fix the framerate, because they have to in order to ship and because it'd be ludicrus to ship a VR game of a flagship product with framerate problems as bad as what's visible in this video. I don't know why you're fighting me on this when the video is what it is, but if we can both agree that motion captured in this video is not what the final game needs to be, then let it be until they show the game better next time.

But again, several of the motion issues I pointed out are from the legacy asset movement, not the VR framerate. (That's why they're replacing lots of animation assets, but by the looks of things, they need to replace a LOT more before it's ready, and they've already said many motions will be "preserved".) The headset can display images right on time, but if there's a hitch in the original movement, that becomes magnified in VR.
 
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Wonko_C

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I was not referring to motion sickness, I was referring to limitations of moving around.

VR sells the idea of putting the user in a "higher state of presence" within the game world.
They put your eyes inside the game world, as if you're really there.

But all that falls flat when something as basic as moving around cannot be performed without restrictions.
Which completely undervalues the idea of VR, of not being able to make use of that presence for anything other than moving your hands and head, and maybe moving around one or two feet away from your current position.

That's why VR games ideally should take into account that limitation of movement, and be designed from the ground up with the expectation that the player will not be able to move at all.

Unfortunately people don't want to admit that VR is very limited in that regard, which is a shame, since acknowledging that limitation is the first step towards making better VR experiences.
I hadn't thought about it like that. And I think I get what you mean. Moving around with a stick in VR doesn't feel like moving, more like you're "scrolling" through the environment. I still prefer those games to ones where you're stuck in one spot, though.

But maybe it's because I don't necessarily seek presence but a new way to play and a sense of scale to things. Just yesterday I was playing through Borderlands 2 VR for hours sitting down on my chair, Aim Controller in hands and couldn't put it down. I can't say the same about the TV versions, where I can't play for more than 15 minutes before getting bored.

Maybe one day a dev makes a VR shooter where the player is sitting in a rocket-powered wheelchair to solve the disconnect some people have with stick locomotion?
 
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Romulus

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Another thing is much of these are really unknowns until the game is tried first hand, even more so in VR. Movement especially.
 

namekuseijin

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It does look pretty rad. The previous video was good enough already but now seeing they even made things like drawers manually interactive, it's basically like a made for VR game like Saints & Sinners now! It was funny they spoke of the remastered textures when a really blocky one was in view.

It was a nice showcase, I'm hyped for Saints & Sinners content (though at first I got excited thinking it's a full expansion) and After the Fall is starting to look promising but I expected many more if they bothered to make a gaming show rather than just drop the announcements as they come or whatever. There were like 10 announcements and a handful as content/updates or behind the scenes for existing games. At least that also means they didn't get many more exclusives (still hoping that this one will eventually be announced for more platforms) so that's a plus as a PCVR gamer.

that clipped footage won't do, the actual stream had more content showing:


already in the 21:30 mark, until around 26:30.

I'm actually finding those textures too good for a Quest game, but then it's a Quest 2 exclusive. It's well done, but they should add a few camera animations like when going through windows.

Btw, no mention of melee combat - I think it'll get left out. Too much for a port like this when not even made for VR games completely solved it - in particular, using analog stick to get closer or dodge just doesn't feel right, combat in VR should be 1:1 lock-in, a pretty roomscale experience with grasp moves and quick dodge maneuvers through gestures. It's why Blood and Truth and HL Alyx also left it out.
 

namekuseijin

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VR sells the idea of putting the user in a "higher state of presence" within the game world.
They put your eyes inside the game world, as if you're really there.

But all that falls flat when something as basic as moving around cannot be performed without restrictions.

you can run all you want into your room furniture or walls but I prefer to use good old analog stick to walk around, or a mixture of some walking in my limited play area to check stuff in close vicinity and walking in-game.
 
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namekuseijin

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Moving around with a stick in VR doesn't feel like moving, more like you're "scrolling" through the environment

No Man's Sky has an option for head bobbing. It works well enough, but some slimy folks find it nauseating.

then again, I predate that option in FPS and even FPS in general, so "sliding" motion never found off to me: I'm clearly moving past scenery...
 
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SlimeGooGoo

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Maybe one day a dev makes a VR shooter where the player is sitting in a rocket-powered wheelchair to solve the disconnect some people have with stick locomotion?
you can run all you want into your room furniture or walls but I prefer to use good old analog stick to walk around, or a mixture of some walking in my limited play area to check stuff in close vicinity and walking in-game.
The point is, it creates a disconnect.

It can be used just to put your eyes but not your body inside the game, and I assume for most people that may be enough to justify buying and using a VR headset.
But I believe the biggest potential is for VR developers to make use of what works really well in their favor in order to create experiences that can only happen on VR.
 
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Wonko_C

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No Man's Sky has an option for head bobbing. It works well enough, but some slimy folks find it nauseating.

then again, I predate that option in FPS and even FPS in general, so "sliding" motion never found off to me: I'm clearly moving past scenery...
It's been a few months since I played it. Did they put that in a recent update? I wanna see if I have resistance to boneworks-style head physics.
 
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namekuseijin

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It's been a few months since I played it. Did they put that in a recent update? I wanna see if I have resistance to boneworks-style head physics.
it's not physics-based, just a simple animation added to the camera.

I'm not sure it's recent, someone mentioned it and I had to check - before the Expeditions update. I enjoyed it.

still to the slimy guy: I very much prefer the utter freedom of motion and running and jumping in the boundless landscapes of NMS than the single-room-lots-of-objects school of Job Sim minigaming VR design, thank you. The disconnect is gone in a few weeks for most people but the most nauseous and sensitive.
 

Alexios

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Quest came out in 2019, way too soon to have games that don't run on it. Of course people who jumped in with Quest 2 or upgraded don't see the issue, but that's not like any console before as it's likened to. Even the total flops like WiiU took years to get a direct successor from the company.

Oculus/Facebook know this, that's why after hinting at Quest Pro/3 they backpedaled to say 2 will be in the market for a long while and it's way too soon for a successor, they don't wanna deter buyers as they don't have Apple's hold to have people buy their stuff every year or two or whatever.

Edit: oh I thought it's new posts but I was looking at page 1 I guess, lol.
 
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Tygeezy

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that clipped footage won't do, the actual stream had more content showing:


already in the 21:30 mark, until around 26:30.

I'm actually finding those textures too good for a Quest game, but then it's a Quest 2 exclusive. It's well done, but they should add a few camera animations like when going through windows.

Btw, no mention of melee combat - I think it'll get left out. Too much for a port like this when not even made for VR games completely solved it - in particular, using analog stick to get closer or dodge just doesn't feel right, combat in VR should be 1:1 lock-in, a pretty roomscale experience with grasp moves and quick dodge maneuvers through gestures. It's why Blood and Truth and HL Alyx also left it out.
Yeah, roomscale is what’s needed for melee. Boxing is great in roomscale and just wouldn’t work with left stick. Saints and sinners manages okay, but they’re zombies.
 
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Shai-Tan

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The point is, it creates a disconnect.

It can be used just to put your eyes but not your body inside the game, and I assume for most people that may be enough to justify buying and using a VR headset.
But I believe the biggest potential is for VR developers to make use of what works really well in their favor in order to create experiences that can only happen on VR.

there are a lot of ideas for more natural locomotion but getting from point a to b is not that interesting in itself. it’s the immersion in an environment that matters. what you can do in an environment is already covered by room scale movement, where the problem is just the fidelity of the interaction and how it figures into game play. this hybrid model works considering the many games that employ it. Obviously it would be better for both motion sickness and immersion if there’s a more natural transition between moving in a world and room scale interaction. I don’t think the solution to that is to limit the scope of vr to compensate for limitations. That’s just going to artificially limit games in ways that make them unfun. there is no holy grail of games that adhere to that
 
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cyberheater

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It's going to sell bucket loads. It will be day one for me.
 

namekuseijin

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Yeah, roomscale is what’s needed for melee. Boxing is great in roomscale and just wouldn’t work with left stick. Saints and sinners manages okay, but they’re zombies.
I don't mean 1:1 boxing, that's a simple and straightforward job to make and not one I'm willing to play. I'm a gamer, not a fitness nut. I don't want to sweat in droves to enjoy a game.

what I'm saying is that close quarters combat in VR definitely should be roomscale rather moving back and forth with analog stick. But they're still to find a proper mechanic for that: one that empowers the player in a whimsical way rather than requiring them to get in shape or whatever. Slow motion is one way, that's how Neo fights in the Matrix or Superhot: he slows the digital world around rather than develop some ludicrous speed. Physics combat is another - but so far you get all these cool moves and is very overpowered against wonky ragdolls. We need AI who actually fights back, blocks etc. We need contact points in their body and our digital avatar which can be grabbed and pushed around, we need a form of lock-on in VR and a dodge system to pull back or in close quarters again without analog sticks, we need super jumps, sliding motions, grappling moves to tackle other enemies, to move about them like a pro, like a ninja, like a real game hero. This is all missing in 5 years of VR so far... this way to move around might be way better than smooth locomotion or teleport during fights and might even be less nauseating - you know in anime when character is jumping or moving fast and backgrounds turn into a blur or something?

VR indies are commonly thought to be original, innovative and forward-thinking and yet are still all about constant speed motion, little to no verticality and the damn old teleport... come on, it's time to grow.

Guess I'm disappointed at Leon breaking a window and going through it like a door. That's the kind of BS I expect from FB gaming. But tbh they also cut out verticality from Hitman, damn Sony. Why not leave as a comfort option: turn off vertical animations?
 
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CamHostage

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Slow motion is one way, that's how Neo fights in the Matrix or Superhot: he slows the digital world around rather than develop some ludicrous speed. Physics combat is another - but so far you get all these cool moves and is very overpowered against wonky ragdolls. We need AI who actually fights back, blocks etc. We need contact points in their body and our digital avatar which can be grabbed and pushed around, we need a form of lock-on in VR and a dodge system to pull back or in close quarters again without analog sticks, we need super jumps, sliding motions, grappling moves to tackle other enemies, to move about them like a pro, like a ninja, like a real game hero. This is all missing in 5 years of VR so far... this way to move around might be way better than smooth locomotion or teleport during fights and might even be less nauseating - you know in anime when character is jumping or moving fast and backgrounds turn into a blur or something?

That would all be interesting, but that's a way different game from what they're building here. This is just a port of RE4, not Resident Evil P90X.

Making an existing TV game into a highly physical VR game is probably not the way to move most games over (unless that's specifically what you're trying to do, like doing a Pac-Man Fitness game or or putting pedal power into a racing game's acceleration rate.) Games are designed and balanced to play a certain way, with a set number of mechanics to them in order to present a challenge and thrill. All the things you're mentioning are great for VR-specific games (some would be great for non-VR games too, we could use some increased physicality,) but if you want to bring a game from one format to another, you should adapt what's there and augment existing systems with smartly designed new systems, not totally replace it. You wouldn't bring Mario 64 into VR and then give him a gun because guns play better with motion controls than buttstomps...
 
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