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Returnal Will Support Ray Tracing and 60 Frames Per Second at 4K Resolution

Clear

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4K is just an output format. Its all about the quality of the image as demonstrated by DLSS2.0 producing what many consider to be perceptually equal or better results than native in some instances.

The obsession some people have with resolution is misguided - to put it kindly.
 

jroc74

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Ok, I hope some ppl feel better now about what type of 4K and RT Returnal is doing now.

This thread got weird real quick.

Its not like we haven't already been thru this with other games.

I never assume native 4K unless its stated as native 4K. That was my point.

It felt like the last few months didnt happen. What was so different about this game that folks reverted back to pre launch mindsets?
 
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Reality Czar

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It is an image that you cannot show on a 1080 screen. Only a 4k screen can show these images. So in a large sense yes it is a 4k game.

Plus this is the initial release. I imagine they will be able to patch in updates to these new next gen games as devs get used to working on the system.
 

ethomaz

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Bo_Hazem

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So much details:

 
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01011001

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While he hides behind a video and a graph, I wouldnt believe anything coming from that channel, even if it makes sense.

they aren't lying but their framerate analysis is wonky because they do not use lossless footage.
but their resolution numbers have been pretty solid so far.
 
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they aren't lying but their framerate analysis is wonky because they do not use lossless footage.
but their resolution numbers have been pretty solid so far.

Well ElAnalistadeBits said there's no RT in the game. I mean doing simple research can easily tell him where to look for it. But he didn't do that for whatever reason.
 

01011001

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Well ElAnalistadeBits said there's no RT in the game. I mean doing simple research can easily tell him where to look for it. But he didn't do that for whatever reason.

yeah I think a lot of people still think RT = reflections and the game does not seem to have RT reflections.
it has RT lighting which is way more subtle and often hard to even spot as well made prebaked lighting will look basically the same at first glance
 
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yeah I think a lot of people still think RT = reflections and the game does not seem to have RT reflections.
it has RT lighting which is way more subtle and often hard to even spot as well made prebaked lighting will look basically the same at first glance

But he said no RT at all when Sony said something different. If I was him I would at least try to spot RT lighting. I'm pretty sure DF and NXGamer NXGamer will find it.
 
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01011001

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But he said no RT at all when Sony said something different. If I was him I would at least try to spot RT lighting. I'm pretty sure DF and NXGamer NXGamer will find it.

well if it really only is global illumination, then it's actually really hard to spot as screenspace GI and prebaked GI both look basically the same as RT GI if they are well implemented. the differences are very subtle and it will be hard to spot if you don't have a button to turn it off and compare with and without it.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Actually It might be one of the cheapest computationally use of RT after audio.

I remember when people argued that it was the most expensive, even after this slide was shown. The more you know.
I'm not sure, but from my experience with RTX in the PC realm, GI is usually more expensive than reflections.
Probably because GI is on at all times more often than not, and reflections are used sparingly in comparison. Draw fully reflective scenes (would be an eyesore anyhow) and I am sure it will show differently.
 
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well if it really only is global illumination, then it's actually really hard to spot as screenspace GI and prebaked GI both look basically the same as RT GI if they are well implemented. the differences are very subtle and it will be hard to spot if you don't have a button to turn it off and compare with and without it.

Fact is Sony still told him where to look for RT and he said there wasn't any.
 
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01011001

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Fact is Sony still told him where to look for RT and he said there wasn't any.

well yeah, I really think beyond counting pixels and putting a video file through his open source analysis tool this dude has no idea what he's talking about. counting pixels tho is pretty easy so that part of his analysis is at least something you can somewhat believe.
 
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well yeah, I really think beyond counting pixels and putting a video file through his open source analysis tool this dude has no idea what he's talking about. counting pixels tho is pretty easy so that part of his analysis is at least something you can somewhat believe.

Depends if other comparisons come to the same conclusion that he has.
 

VFXVeteran

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Apparently the game is really good. And few people are liking the game specifically for the graphics. They like the gameplay. At the end of the day it's just an Unreal Engine Game. It might be the most impressive UE game yet (notably with use of lighting RT), but I think we are far from Demon's souls overall quality.

By the way I don't see why there should be a dynamic time of day as you constantly (and quickly) die and respawn at the same place (and time).
When you are rendering bounced lighting, you need to have the light source move dynamically in order to see the bounced light. If the light is static, it could be a simple static light map.

I'm going to go out on a limb and declare they are using RT GI for local light sources like ND did with their flashlight in TLoU only RT. If so, that's believable and very cheap to render. But implementing something like Control, Cyberpunk and Metro @ 60FPS I can't see possible without some DLSS to speed up calculations even if the approximation is very crude with low samples.
 
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01011001

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When you are rendering bounced lighting, you need to have the light source move dynamically in order to see the bounced light. If the light is static, it could be a simple static light map.

I'm going to go out on a limb and declare they are using RT GI for local light sources like ND did with their flashlight in TLoU only RT. If so, that's believable and very cheap to render. But implementing something like Control, Cyberpunk and Metro @ 60FPS I can't see possible without some DLSS to speed up calculations even if the approximation is very crude with low samples.

looking at the gameplay it is almost impossible to notice that they use RT. I bet it's not even done for esthetic reasons and more due to making actually lighting the procedurally generated levels way easier for them.

and if it is only in screenspace like Gears 5 does it is also very performant
 
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DeepEnigma

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Some Spanish guy that does comparisons. According to many he isn't reliable and the mods have stated that he isn't trust worthy untill he improves. He tends to spread misinformation with his comparisons. Like saying there's no RT when Sony said there's RT for GI for example.
He started off chill and I enjoyed his channel when it showed comparisons with remakes and the like.

Then he delved into the console war arena train, and it all went downhill since. Not even loading up the same areas when trying to do "load times" comparisons. Especially for Red Dead 2 which the area of the map is big time dependent on load times. That is why I started to see sloppiness just prior to him taking to Twitter to get in on the drama.
 

ThatOneGrunt

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He started off chill and I enjoyed his channel when it showed comparisons with remakes and the like.

Then he delved into the console war arena train, and it all went downhill since. Not even loading up the same areas when trying to do "load times" comparisons. Especially for Red Dead 2 which the area of the map is big time dependent on load times. That is why I started to see sloppiness just prior to him taking to Twitter to get in on the drama.

He certainly seems a bit warriorish to me especially with how he manipulates some of his comparisons. You don't see sites like Digital Foundry, NXgamer or VGtech doing that.
 
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NXGamer

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But he said no RT at all when Sony said something different. If I was him I would at least try to spot RT lighting. I'm pretty sure DF and NXGamer NXGamer will find it.
It uses RT GI, as a procedurally generated world the bounce of light and the Particle system that Housemarque have always been the leader on, would not be possible or too many issue/work load to manage this.
 

llien

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To all people bitching about resolution and framerates:

I Hate You Movie GIF by filmeditor


What the fuck is this? Graphic fidelity of PS4, but at 4k (4 times pixels of 1080p) and at 60fps.

That is EIGHT FUCKING TIMES more work to do for a GPU over 1080p30

No, I do not think it is worth it, not even remotely.
 
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GymWolf

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Hopefully the rt are not gonna get in the way of rock solid 60 fps with hell on screen.
 
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It uses RT GI, as a procedurally generated world the bounce of light and the Particle system that Housemarque have always been the leader on, would not be possible or too many issue/work load to manage this.

Awesome and thanks for the response. When the particles illuminate that fog is that part of what they are doing for RT?
 

GymWolf

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People calling bullshit on that 4k tag when it's not native are right.

4k means 4k, not 4k with tricks or dynamic resolution, the same way you don't start measuring your dick starting from the balls, it is misleading for the ladies.
 
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Officially it supports RT. 😱.... also not even native 4K for an indie game.


It does support RT NXGamer NXGamer just confirmed it and Sony officially states it. And those tweets are using ElAnalistadeBits which isn't allowed here so you shouldn't have posted them. You can ask EviLore EviLore on why he isn't allowed here. He already clarified with my on what the other mods have seen with the source.