Revelatory (for me) discussion about trans people and genital "preference"

[Zen_Arcade]

What. The person I quoted said being called transphobic has negative connotation. I am challenging that notion by stating it is not inherently negative. Only when you subscribe to the idea that its negative is it negative. I have been called transphobic (and racist abs sexist). It is a challenge to examine what I said or did so I can understand why the other person feels that way. There is nothing negative about an opportunity to grow.

I mean, you realize it can be both right? Transphobic is always going to have a negative connontation. Being able to improve yourself away from a negative trait doesn't suddenly make the initial negative trait no longer negative.

Also, "There is nothing negative about an opportunity to grow." is an incredibly naive statement.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Criticizing someone and telling them to think about why they engage in that specific behavior is not conversion therapy. Do you think it acceptable to say "I'm not attracted to black women"?

I mean, just remember that any attempt at a high ground you make will probably fail when you tried to compare criticizing people on the Internet to a form of torture

As a black man, someone saying "I'm not attracted to black guys" is annoying as fuck, but I don't think it makes the person a bigot.

I do however think amending their statement to "I've never been attracted to a black guy", for some reason, is easier to swallow, since it's deals with less absolutes.

I'd imagine you'd find the phrase "I've never been attracted to someone who's transitioned" a bit easier to stomach than "I'm not attracted to people who transition."

 

[Ray Wonder]

What. The person I quoted said being called transphobic has negative connotation. I am challenging that notion by stating it is not inherently negative. Only when you subscribe to the idea that its negative is it negative. I have been called transphobic (and racist abs sexist). It is a challenge to examine what I said or did so I can understand why the other person feels that way. There is nothing negative about an opportunity to grow.

Just like bigot!

I'm proudly bigoted against Nazis

 

[botprince]

Good thing no one is doing that. Seriously, I've seen this sentiment in here a few times. Being called transphobic should not be such a scary thing to you that you have to go out and have sex with someone trans to prove people wrong. There are varying levels of transphobia the same as there are varying levels of racism. Someone who insults black people for being black is racist, but not on the same level as someone who goes out and commits hate crimes. You are not on the same level as all people ever who have ever been called transphobic.

Motherfucker, what?? All of these are bad, get the fuck outta here with this varyong levels bullshit. At no point should being a transphobe or a racist be "not that bad", and at no point should anyone be okay with being lumped in with those disgusting creatures.

The crux of your argument is that being labeled transphobic should not be a scary thing to people. You have lost. You don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

What. The person I quoted said being called transphobic has negative connotation. I am challenging that notion by stating it is not inherently negative. Only when you subscribe to the idea that its negative is it negative. I have been called transphobic (and racist abs sexist). It is a challenge to examine what I said or did so I can understand why the other person feels that way. There is nothing negative about an opportunity to grow.

"There is nothing negative about an opportunity to grow... [but let me continue generalizing and insulting you as a way to encourage you to be better until you reach a level I deem appropriate]"

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I find this to be an unreasonable expectation to expect fully and labeling it inherently transphobia isn't fair much less helpful. It also doesn't make trans people come off as friendly or open to dialogue. My way or the highway. Honestly, it's one of the deciding factors as to why trans people aren't taken seriously

 

[Ketkat]

Motherfucker, what?? All of these are bad, get the fuck outta here with this varyong levels bullshit. At no point should being a transphobe or a racist be "not that bad", and at no point should anyone be okay with being lumped in with those disgusting creatures.

The crux of your argument is that being labeled transphobic should not be a scary thing to people. You have lost. You don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

Uh, yeah? They're all bad, but they're not all equal levels of bad. That's all I was saying. I don't know where the quote "not that bad" is coming from either. I didn't say that once. Reread it slowly

 

[Ray Wonder]

Motherfucker, what?? All of these are bad, get the fuck outta here with this varyong levels bullshit. At no point should being a transphobe or a racist be "not that bad", and at no point should anyone be okay with being lumped in with those disgusting creatures.

The crux of your argument is that being labeled transphobic should not be a scary thing to people. You have lost. You don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

There are levels to all of those though. Just like there's the "Kill all black people" Dylann Roof type, all the way to the use of the N word within groups of friends. Both are racist. Just different levels to it.

 

[King Tubby]

For those who think they are being forced into consuming genitals they have an aversion against, don't worry, this thread won't make the bearers of those meat-things line up outside your door until you get the transphobia banged out of you.

Well thanks for dismissing the other side of this debate with a strawman that nobody has proposed.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing this is that transphobia can be used to describe a structural problem that trans people face, which directly makes their lives worse. So, if you are being labeled transphobic, it doesn't mean you go out and make the lives of other people miserable, but you, however insignificantly, promote an ideology that can add up to actual, real life consequences for other people.

...but we're not promoting an ideology. We're expressing our own sexual preference, one that we don't have that much control over, either.

We are obviously in a society that likes to hinge their sexuality on the presence of genitals, i.e. "I will never fuck someone with a dick", "I just can't stand vaginas", which is fine if there were not people who cannot subscribe to those notions, as they once had a vagina, and now have a penis, vice versa, or have a penis but want a vagina, or are fine with their penis, but would rather identify as a woman, or think of themselves as gender fluid etc etc - reducing sexuality to the persistence of genitals in very generalised statements will feel like personal attacks.
Especially if there is a rather unkind history of structural violence and abuse that sits on top of it as well.

Society likes to hinge sexuality on the presence of genitals because sex literally involves the use and operation of those genitals. It's pretty unavoidable. Someone not liking penis or not liking vagina does not somehow link them to trans people being murdered.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Uh, yeah? They're all bad, but they're not all equal levels of bad. That's all I was saying. I don't know where the quote "not that bad" is coming from either. I didn't say that once. Reread it slowly

You're lumping people who don't want to have sex with trans people with genitalia they do not prefer with those who actively hunt down and murder trans people. So of course people are going to think you're calling them a bad person...

It's also pointless to label 99% of the population as transphobic. It waters down the word and makes it meaningless.

 

[E-Cat]

The reason why people ITT (myself included) take issue with the label transphobic is because it's being used in a way that's very different semantically from the word homophobic, for instance. I mean, you would never call a man that wasn't gay "homophobic".

 

[RDreamer]

This is kind of a rough discussion, because I think people will internalize and personalize it too much on both ends of the argument. I think it's ok to not be attracted to a certain genitalia and that doesn't necessarily make you transphobic. I think some people just aren't attracted to penises or vaginas and that's that. On the other hand I think there probably is a percentage of people that the lack of attraction, or even repulsion, is at least somewhat transphobic. In a freer, more accepting society without all the hangups, patriarchy, and other bullshit built in I think a larger percentage of people absolutely would be attracted to genitals other than what they think they are now.

The problem with this is that you can't accuse someone singularly of that, because you just don't really know. That reaction could be genuine, it could be completely subconscious, or it could be very conscious. However, you can probably say that the reactions trans people get as a statistical whole are largely the result of transphobia, though.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

So glad to know that the trans women I know who are into masculine gendered people who specifically have penises are actually transphobic because they're not into feminine gendered people of any sexual organ type.

Or that my homosexual cross dressing friends who are into masculine gendered people who specifically have penises are actually transphobic because they're not into feminine gendered people of any sexual organ type.


Stuff in OP just seems like people are demanding sex and that's a big lol from anyone who does it.

There's a guy who blows up Reddit all the time because he constantly sues women for refusing to date/sleep with him due to his face being partially paralyzed from a stroke. Says that they're discriminating against him.



You can't force someone to fuck you. Coercion through shaming isn't going to work.

 

[Ketkat]

The reason why people in this thread (myself included) take issue to label transphobic is because it's being used in a way that's very different semantically from the word homophobic, for instance. I mean, you would never call a man that wasn't gay "homophobic".

If there was a guy who was attracted to guys, but wouldn't sleep with them no matter what. I'd think that's pretty homophobic, I dunno about you.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

So glad to know that the trans women I know who are into masculine gendered people who specifically have penises are actually transphobic because they're not into feminine gendered people of any sexual organ type.

Or that my homosexual cross dressing friends who are into masculine gendered people who specifically have penises are actually transphobic because they're not into feminine gendered people of any sexual organ type.


Stuff in OP just seems like people are demanding sex and that's a big lol from anyone who does it.

There's a guy who blows up Reddit all the time because he constantly sues women for refusing to date/sleep with him due to his face being partially paralyzed from a stroke. Says that they're discriminating against him.



You can't force someone to fuck you. Coercion through shaming isn't going to work.

Perhaps that can be a Tinder handle:

"Have sex with me, otherwise you're heterophobic."

If there was a guy who was attracted to guys, but wouldn't sleep with them no matter what. I'd think that's pretty homophobic, I dunno about you.

I'm not gay and as a man I point out when other men look attractive, but I'm not attracted to have sex with them.

 

[E-Cat]

If there was a guy who was attracted to guys, but wouldn't sleep with them no matter what. I'd think that's pretty homophobic, I dunno about you.

I agree. But since I'm not attracted to trans people...?

 

[Izuna]

I'm sure a similar discussion came up before. It was locked and Evilore stepped in and a mod for demodded

Iirc.

1. No you are not a bigot for not wanting to date trans women. There are many obvious reasons that extend to other kinds of women, like wanting a child, and others that are otherwise hurtful to mention which makes this discussion unnecessary.

2. In the last thread, people claimed that you would not be able to tell from a cis or trans vagina. No examples, obviously, but it got brought up.

3. The idea that someone is transphobic for preferring say, a women with a vagina is utmost ridiculous. Excusing the fact that genitalia is a big component to sexual preferences, there are many more things that can be deal breakers to be and that's a perfectly natural and unchangeable. However, the discussion about personal preference has only the opportunity to hurt others feeling in return for nothing meaningful.

4. With the many difficulties the trans community has with when it comes to rights and opinions of the ignorant masses, this discussion is polarising and uninvites people from the discussion. I know I am sounding a little bit like that insufferable prick from TYT, but the attack on people's preferences -- especially when they're invited to share what they are where they otherwise wouldn't -- is in my opinion causing more harm than it does good in terms of educating people on trans issues.

I'll repeat something I said before. If some of you straight men can't get over the fact that a sexy af/beautiful af or whatever else is trans, then that's a shame. You're not bigots, just missing out, the same way you're likely missing out on prostate orgasms.

And I say that as someone with no experience with either.

Let's carry on so long as we all understand that LGBT are capable of the same love us straight cis dudes are.

 

[Ketkat]

I agree. But since I'm not attracted to trans people...?

So, you're not attracted to trans people at all. You would never ask one out. You would never be in your surprise dick scenarios. How does this effect you?

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

If there was a guy who was attracted to guys, but wouldn't sleep with them no matter what. I'd think that's pretty homophobic, I dunno about you.

If you think that genitalia are not a preeeeettttty significant part of why that guy is attracted to guys, though, idk what to tell you other than that yours is very much not an orientation to sex that is like most people's. (Note I mean "you" in the sense of "person who agrees with this sentiment", not you, specifically, whose opinion I do not know.)

 

[E-Cat]

So, you're not attracted to trans people at all. You would never ask one out. You would never be in your surprise dick scenarios. How does this effect you?

It doesn't. So, why am I transphobic?

 

[Red]

So, you're not attracted to trans people at all. You would never ask one out. You would never be in your surprise dick scenarios. How does this effect you?

That's exactly what the question is about.

 

[Airola]

As a black man, someone saying "I'm not attracted to black guys" is annoying as fuck, but I don't think it makes the person a bigot.

I do however think amending their statement to "I've never been attracted to a black guy", for some reason, is easier to swallow, since it's deals with less absolutes.

I'd imagine you'd find the phrase "I've never been attracted to someone who's transitioned" a bit easier to stomach than "I'm not attracted to people who transition."

Good post.

However, I have no idea if it's ok to prefer, say, a homosexual to say the same about the opposite sex. Like, should we then also expect homosexuals to say "I've never been attracted to the opposite sex" instead of "I'm not attracted to the opposite sex"? Or would expecting them to be more vague and not that extreme about it be one type of homophobia?

 

[Heckler456]

I wonder why Ketkat or A Link to the Past aren't acknowledging Android18a's post.

Good post.

However, I have no idea if it's ok to prefer, say, a homosexual to say the same about the opposite sex. Like, should we then also expect homosexuals to say "I've never been attracted to the opposite sex" instead of "I'm not attracted to the opposite sex"? Or would expecting them to be more vague and not that extreme about it be one type of homophobia?

I think when it comes to things like sex and long-term commitments and whatnot, pretty much every kind of preference is fair game, as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of others.

edit: whoops, I think I completely misread that post.

 

[Heckler456]

.

 

[Reishiki]

Edit: Rescinded

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Good post.

However, I have no idea if it's ok to prefer, say, a homosexual to say the same about the opposite sex. Like, should we then also expect homosexuals to say "I've never been attracted to the opposite sex" instead of "I'm not attracted to the opposite sex"? Or would expecting them to be more vague and not that extreme about it be one type of homophobia?

Oh fuck, didn't think of this.

Yea, that would actually be really problematic and feed into the whole "you just haven't met a straight person you like, yet!" mentality.

I guess that's where the parallel ends =/

 

[CrocMother]

I'm attracted to women. don't really care about genitals.

Saying you're not attracted to trans people is transphobic.

 

[Ketkat]

I wonder why Ketkat or A Link to the Past aren't acknowledging Android18a's post.

What's there to say? I'm just one transwoman. I don't speak for everyone in the community, and I'm not going to tell her that she's wrong because she has actual experience in this matter, which I doubt most people in this thread have. I'm giving my opinion on what I think about the situation.

I have never said its transphobic to not want to sleep with someone because of their genitals in this thread, by the way. I've been taking issue with the people who have an issue with dating trans people at all, because of flimsy reasons. Like the people who say they can smell and taste the difference between cis and trans women, or saying that biological sex is what they're attracted to. Genital preferences are a real thing, I just don't understand the "real woman" thoughts or the issues with post-op transwomen.

 

[poppabk]

Guess not.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

The irony of this is that most trans woman and trans men try to date cis people. So trans people are allowed to have genital preference but not cis people? As a trans woman, I am not seeking out a trans man to date. I don't know a single fellow trans woman who actively tries to date trans men. Sure, I know of some couples who are both trans, but they're in the vast minority when talking of man and woman relationships. Usually, a trans woman who likes men goes for a cis man.

By their own argument, the majority of trans people themselves are transphobic.

When your argument paints the majority of society - including people in your own group! - as the bad guys you've fucked up.

If you want trans acceptance this is not how you're going to get it. Am I transphobic because I want a man with a penis? Okay, I'll be open minded to dating a trans man, but gun to head I'm going for D. And any trans person who says they don't have genital preferences is lying to themselves.

This is why the left aren't taken seriously. It's cool if you don't want to date me because I've got a stick. So long as you don't:

1. think that you can get away with fucking me but not dating me/marrying me.

Or

2. Try to hurt or kill me.

We cool.

But this "you're transphobic if you won't date me" thing, as a universally applied argument against all people is stupid as shit and insulting to a wide range of people, including trans people.

Good way to destroy your own credibility and movement too. The content in the Facebook convo in that op is also laughable. Only trans opinions matter on this issue? Lol, really?

 

[E-Cat]

I have never said its transphobic to not want to sleep with someone because of their genitals in this thread, by the way.

But you have said it's transphobic to not want to sleep with a post-op transwoman.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

What's there to say? I'm just one transwoman. I don't speak for everyone in the community, and I'm not going to tell her that she's wrong because she has actual experience in this matter, which I doubt most people in this thread have. I'm giving my opinion on what I think about the situation.

I have never said its transphobic to not want to sleep with someone because of their genitals in this thread, by the way. I've been taking issue with the people who have an issue with dating trans people at all, because of flimsy reasons. Like the people who say they can smell and taste the difference between cis and trans women, or saying that biological sex is what they're attracted to. Genital preferences are a real thing, I just don't understand the "real woman" thoughts or the issues with post-op transwomen.

If I would not want to have sex with someone, I would not particularly want to date them?

And how is it "flimsy" to say you are attracted to biological sex when sexual dimorphism, not gender, is the very reason intercourse exists at all?

 

[Ketkat]

But you have said it's transphobic to not want to sleep with a post-op trans woman.

Yes, because I don't see the difference that's stopping you from seeing her as a woman anymore. That's why I've been trying to get people to define what they see as a woman for a while, and a lot of them are saying "Well you just have to be born as a woman" which comes off as transphobic to me.

If I would not want to have sex with someone, I would not particularly want to date them?

And how is it "flimsy" to say you are attracted to biological sex when sexual dimorphism, not gender, is the very reason intercourse exists at all?

Because there are plenty of transwomen and men out there who pass perfectly and even look incredibly attractive. So, I don't understand how you can lump an entire group in and say that you wouldn't date them.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

going out with a woman that was a man before (that did surgery to completely become a woman), i wouldn't mind....

but going out with someone with a penis? Sorry, no.... how does that makes me transphobic? I'm not attracted to penises, that's it

 

[Monocle]

If i'm dating a guy, i'm expecting a dick down there

If there's no dick and i get upset it means that i'm transophobic?

The fuck

 

[Sikamikanico]

I have to admit, I suck at understanding/getting all the different terminology of all this stuff, so I'm legitimately not posting much for fear of saying something wrong that could cause offense. (Typing that has made me wanna go read up on terminology though)

I'd like to think I'm open minded and decent enough to believe people have the right to be what they want to be, and I'm totally okay with everything really.I can't say "I'd never date a women who had transitioned", because I've never been in that situation, but if I met a girl and was already out on date and found out, I think I'd be okay with it because subconciously, I already was okay with it. It'd just be some societal bullshit I'd have to get past I guess? Can't honestly say 100% how I'd feel about it though.

Eh, I'm just rambling at this point.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I respect a nigga who says "you're trans? That's cool but I'm not attracted to that" than "oh, you trans? We can't date but do you want to get down?"

The first one is respectable; The second one will always result with a laugh in his face.

 

[RDreamer]

If I would not want to have sex with someone, I would not particularly want to date them?

Not sure this matters to your particular argument at hand but I do want to point out I've met quite a few couples that don't have sex but are dating each other.

And how is it "flimsy" to say you are attracted to biological sex when sexual dimorphism, not gender, is the very reason intercourse exists at all?

I think it's flimsy because presumably there could be an instance where you could not tell a post op trans person from a non trans person until you were told. If you were attracted to someone, possibly had sex with them, and were ok with it until someone (that person or otherwise) told you then there's something odd about that I think.

 

[T.O.P]

Got me thinkin of this gif while postin

 

[E-Cat]

Yes, because I don't see the difference that's stopping you from seeing her as a woman anymore. That's why I've been trying to get people to define what they see as a woman for a while, and a lot of them are saying "Well you just have to be born as a woman" which comes off as transphobic to me.

But people have given you reasons:

Personally speaking? No. Im very touch/taste focused when it comes to sex and the way a woman's skin feels, her back, the way she smells and tastes (down there), it's just different and unique to people with that biology.

Now of course there are trans women who can "pass" and look fucking great but I need those boxes checked when it comes to the opposite sex. If that makes me transphobic then I'm sorry, but I can't change the way my brain is wired to make somebody else happy when I'm perfectly content with my own sexuality.

This is pretty much what it boils down to.

By your definition, literally everyone who is not transsexual is a transphobe. Well, except for the small subset of people who are not trans themselves but attracted to trans people; which I would have to imagine is a very marginal group.

 

[driggonny]

But you have said it's transphobic to not want to sleep with a post-op transwoman.

I don't understand what your hang up is at that point?

When a transgender women gets on estrogen it changes the softness of their skin, their natural smell, etc., etc., etc. so those things wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

 

[Izuna]

Yes, because I don't see the difference that's stopping you from seeing her as a woman anymore. That's why I've been trying to get people to define what they see as a woman for a while, and a lot of them are saying "Well you just have to be born as a woman" which comes off as transphobic to me.

Your last point is correct, but it is unfair to assume that this is how everyone feels.

Sexual preference, in particular, contains some of the most irrational reservations in the world. It shouldn't be any less okay to be less sexual attracted to a women because she is trans than any of the other vast amount of personal preference.

No one gains from this discussion. None of us like to hear that we're not someone's preference, whether we like them or not. Why invite that discussion?

 

[Kreed]

They are an embattled bunch; they can't take many more losses.

One of the big problems with discussions like these is this fear of being labeled any variation of "phobic"/"cist" labels because they think these labels mean you're the worst person on the planet and have to "fix" something right now (ex: thinking the Transphobia label should only be applied to people who hate Trans people/wish to do them harm), when there's "levels" to it. Even when discussing others who have done "phobic"/"cists" actions in the news or media, the defense of these people is often rooted in not wanting those actions to be seen as "phobic"/"cists" because they themselves know they could have done or said the same things. So instead these discussions turn into fights over labels that don't go anywhere.

 

[Dryk]

I guess I'm out of touch on this nuanced...dick issue.

I thought your sex was what you are biologically...dick/balls = male. pussy = female.
Then you gender was what you identified as...

How can a penis or vagina have nothing to do with what sex you are? They define it. This is so confusing.

Biological sex is actually a conflation of several different traits (genitals, hormones, chromosomes, etc) that usually fall along the lines people expect but there's a long list of exceptions.

I don't think it's transphobic to have a preference.

But I genuinely think the fact that so many people care this much is a result of transphobia in how we're raised.

So I wouldn't necessarily blame anyone for feeling that way.

I think this is the easier and more effective thing to dismantle, but that may just be because I've been doing it lately.

I mean, how do you get into such a situation as a straight guy anyway? Maybe with a lack of experience (not having been around girls a lot) and sexual life. Other than that? I haven't seen one transperson convincingly pass as a girl. Adam's apple, hands, jaw, movement, body language etc etc... it's all too easy to recognize or at least one element gives it away.

Feminine features aren't exclusive to people who are AFAB, nor are they impossible for transwomen to possess. Just less likely due to their (on average) increased exposure to androgens compared to (the average) ciswoman. Even ignoring that any of those external characteristics can be changed if someone wants to (and can afford to) have them changed.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Hi can we stop talking as if this ridiculous facebook thread of completely random people is indicative of literally anything?

This is like a handful of unknown trans people talking to some unknown other person and doing it with a frankly ridiculous concept....

But some of y'all are talking about why the Democrats are losing, and why the left can't win, as if this is the Official Policy of the Trans Community....

This is random fucking people in a facebook conversation for god sakes.

I could probably find a facebook post of a bunch of feminists talking about wanting to castrate men... I'd hope y'all wouldn't then act like Male Castration was the official policy of Feminists

 

[A Link to the Past]

I wonder why Ketkat or A Link to the Past aren't acknowledging Android18a's post.

Because both of us are trans women and while I respect her right to have the stance that she has, it does not mean that I necessarily agree with it. Shit, many of my posts aren't even contradictory with what she said - the main contention is what we find to be transphobic, and how we define transphobia in terms of being fine or not. I do not inherently ascribe malice to transphobia. It's just a matter of how you apply the term.

That "gotcha" sure didn't work out how you hoped it would huh. Maybe in the future don't assume that people in a thread about trans issues aren't talking over trans and are in fact trans themselves. It just makes you look silly when you inevitably make the implication erroneously.

 

[Ketkat]

But people have given you reasons:

This is pretty much what it boils down to.

By your definition, literally everyone who is not transsexual is a transphobe. Well, except for the small subset of people who are not trans themselves but attracted to trans people; which I would have to imagine is a very marginal group.

Those reasons don't make sense. The majority of those change through transitioning. And how is it you think its okay to say that just because you're not attracted to trans people that there are very people out there who are? Do you really not see how insulting that is?

No one gains from this discussion. None of us like to hear that we're not someone's preference, whether we like them or not. Why invite that discussion?

Because people have been saying it about us for a long time. Why is it okay for a group of dudes to get together and talk about how much they don't want to fuck us, but if we ask why, or call them out on it, we're the bad guys?

 

[E-Cat]

I don't understand what your hang up is at that point?

When a transgender women gets on estrogen it changes the softness of their skin, their natural smell, etc., etc., etc. so those things wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

I remain very skeptical of all her physiological functions matching that of a biological-born woman. Science is not that advanced yet. If there is such a person, I haven't met them yet. Most have come off as very masculine looking and instantly recognizable as trans.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Hi can we stop talking as if this ridiculous facebook thread of completely random people is indicative of literally anything?

This is like a handful of unknown trans people talking to some unknown other person and doing it with a frankly ridiculous concept....

But some of y'all are talking about why the Democrats are losing, and why the left can't win, as if this is the Official Policy of the Trans Community....

This is random fucking people in a facebook conversation for god sakes.

I could probably find a facebook post of a bunch of feminists talking about wanting to castrate men... I'd hope y'all wouldn't then act like Male Castration was the official policy of Feminists

I don't think anyone here extrapolated the people in that Facebook post to everyone of a particular community. We simply criticized people who act like them ,who contribute nothing to a discussion and only want to act all-knowing.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Not sure this matters to your particular argument at hand but I do want to point out I've met quite a few couples that don't have sex but are dating each other.



I think it's flimsy because presumably there could be an instance where you could not tell a post op trans person from a non trans person until you were told. If you were attracted to someone, possibly had sex with them, and were ok with it until someone (that person or otherwise) told you then there's something odd about that I think.

When it comes to post-op, I'm honestly not sure what I'd do. It would be very tough, I think, to get my brain to ignore that a realistic simulacrum is just that, a simulacrum, esp. given things like lubrication, ennervation, etc. ARE different, even if my proximate experience of it is largely similar.

People are uber picky about food, yet it is somehow strange that they would be particular about something as intimate and idiosyncratic as sex?