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Opinion Analysis Hardware [REVISED] Sony & Microsoft 10th-Gen Speculation: MICROSOFT EDITION

Will MS Release A 10th Gen System or Do "Rolling Generations" Instead?

  • 10th gen Xbox

    Votes: 16 53.3%
  • No "10th gen" system; just incremental updates to Xbox Series

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • All Cloud, baby!

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
Aug 28, 2019
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NOTE: This thread is EXCLUSIVELY for Microsoft discussion; there will be a thread EXCLUSIVELY for Sony discussion Friday!!!

----

Picking back up from the mid-gen refreshes speculation, here's revised 10th-gen speculation. A lot to talk about; doing one thread for Microsoft and one tomorrow for Sony. If any questions over how I arrive at some things (like HBM4), ask them in comments. Most of what you think is random, uses real data trends to extrapolate from. At end of day, this only speculation.

Long read, have been warned. Have fun!

--------------


(Concept render for Series X but, could be a nice placeholder for next Xbox for now)

[MICROSOFT XBOX SERIES Z/SURFACE Z.D]

>PC-like modular design specification (Series Z)​
>Future-proofed design; upclockable CPU​
>Custom-built GPU card; upgradable​
>No standard VR or AR headset device included; compatible with helmets from​
several brands, i.e Samsung and HTC​
>Marketed as a next-gen gaming, productivity & business high-end laptop​
device (Surface Z.D)​
>Two models; Series Z and Surface Z.D
>Series Z uses Xbox OS & has scaled-down port interface counts & some​
reduced feature support. Sold at traditional loss-leading model​
>Surface Z.D uses Windows Next Home OS**, has expanded port interface*, slots, &​
some additional QoL feature support. Sold at profit​
** = Not LITERALLY Windows Next Home OS; MS has Core OS; designing​
mobile OS variant called Win 10X. "Windows Next Home OS" is placeholder​
term for any Home Edition/Mode-type variant version Microsoft does for​
next generation of Windows developed based off Core OS or Core OS future rev.​
* = Some of this via Docking Bay expansion module; MOTL​
>Surface Z.D intended for productivity, gaming and business work tasks,​
has same specs as Series Z​
>Both utilize same default CPU, GPU, audio, SSD, RAM configs​
>Surface Z.D is laptop-style device similar to Surface Book 3, provided​
in a single configuration. Same processor and RAM components as Series Z.​
Surface Z.D operates in two modes: Portable and Docked.​
>Portable Mode uses it as laptop, CPU & GPU clocks are lowered​
to consume less power, provide suitable battery life.​
>Docked Mode connects Surface Z.D to Docking Bay, with special​
cooling pass-through compartment that connects to portion of the Surface​
Z.D when piece of the unit is removed, provides additional cooling​
/thermal control. Allows Surface Z.D to operate at full​
clocks, i.e same clocks as Series Z's CPU & GPU. Recommended to​
keep Series Z.D connected for charge via AC mode.​
>Docking Bay for Surface Z.D not included in the default configuration,​
is included in another configuration for additional fee. Surface Z.D​
does not need Docking Bay to function.​
>Docking Bay includes four additional PCIe slots, which the Surface Z.D​
uses to address additional peripherals. This leverages use of a system​
bus extension.​
>Surface Z.D comes with high-quality 17" AMOLED 6K display touchscreen​
with up to 300 Hz refresh rate​
>Both provide support for Optane-style "M.NVRAM" form-factor persistent storage,​
PCIe 6.0-CXL links, 2 per slot (16 GB/s per slot), 2x slots​
>Series Z does not come with included persistent memory storage. Can​
support 2x 16 GB/s M.NVRAM cards (one per slot), 256 GB capacity each, for​
512 GB @ 32 GB/s.​
>Surface Z.D comes with 128 GB of Intel Optane DC persistent memory as​
2x 12 GB/s M.NVRAM cards for 24 GB/s bandwidth. Can support 2x 16 GB/s​
M.NVRAM cards (one per slot), 512 GB capacity each, for 1 TB @ 32 GB/s.​
>Series Z supports 3P GPUs. However, the Series Z is only compatible​
with specific GPUs from Microsoft/AMD meant for the Z. Specific​
GPUs will be made available at a later date; require change of modular PSU.​
Surface Z.D does not support 3P GPUs, GPU is soldered onto the motherboard​
and integrated into the package design.​
>Series Z supports BIOS-level safe detection feature; system is rated for installation​
of specific peripheral components in PCIe slots that fit a given power profile.​
Devices exceeding this cannot be authorized installation. CPU upclocking only​
permitted at BIOS level, on detection of new installed GPU. GPU installation​
requires power to be off, requires PSU replacement (PSU comes with GPU package).​
If GPU is removed when power on, system shuts down; if new GPU is installed and​
system turned on, system detects as unauthorized change, shuts down unless previous​
GPU and PSU are reinstalled.​
>Implementation of advanced SAM/BAR addressing scheme enforced through custom block.​
Handles data coherency and transfer of info from storage, NVRAM, GPU and CPU memory pools.​
Hardware bandwidth limit of 80 GB/s​
>NAND decompression I/O built into custom data management block. Supports 4:1 decompression ratio.​
>Custom data management block supports ringbus & arbitration; allow CPU, GPU, audio to share​
access to storage and NVRAM​


[CPU]

>ARCHITECTURE: ZEN-ARM
>GENERATION: 3

>CORES: 16​
>THREADS: 32​
>CLOCK: 5.2 GHz​
>L1$: 64 KB (per core), 1 MB (total)​
>L2$: 1 MB (per core), 16 MB (total)​
>L3$: 16 MB (all)​
>SOCKET: N/A (embedded CPU)​
**Series Z CPU upclockable with new MS/AMD GPU installations​

[GPU]
>ARCHITECTURE: RDNA​
>GENERATION: 7​
>PROCESS: N3P​
>CONFIG: Chiplet​
>SHADER ENGINES: 2​
>SHADER ARRAYS (per SE): 4 (HSE-1), 2 (HSE-2)​
>COMPUTE UNITS: 80​
>HSE-1: 56 CUs (4x Dual 7 CU SAs)​
>HSE-2: 24 CUs (2x Dual 6 CU SAs)​
>COMPUTE UNIT CONFIGURATION: Dual CU​
>SHADER CORES (PER CU): 96​
>SHADER CORES (TOTAL): 7680​
>ROPs: 128​
[* = In Series Z, both HSEs technically have 64 ROPs; however there​
is additional logic built into the GPU allowing HSE-1 to use one​
of the 32 ROP banks in HSE-2 as if it were a 3rd 32-block ROP bank.]​
>TMUs: 6 (per CU), 480 (total)​
>ALUs/SHADER UNITS: 7680​
>STATE MODES (IF ANY): 4; FULL (80 CUs), HSE-1 (56 CUs), HSE-2 (24 CUs), DUAL-HALF (56 HSE-1, 24 HSE-2)​

>WHAT IS STATE MODE: A way to dynamically shift power across sections of the GPU so that a given power draw profile can​
be maintained while increasing specification of performance for active parts of GPU. "Inactive" portion essentially goes into​
Standby Mode, data in cache is kept resident as required. Since Inactive portion is still technically active (just at much lower​
clocks, 25 MHz), specific low-impact tasks WRT data management can still be done on Inactive portion if desired.​
>CLOCK FREQUENCIES: 2723 MHz (FULL), 4291.388 MHz (HALF-SE 1), 4522.496 MHz (HALF-SE 2), 2723 MHz (DUAL-HALF)​
>IPC: 2​
>IPS: 4875.92 million IPS (FULL), 8206.964 million IPS (HALF-SE 1), 9044.993 million IPS (HALF-SE 2), 4875.92 million IPS (DUAL-HALF)​
>THEORETICAL FLOATING POINT OPERATIONS PER SECOND: 41.825 TF (FULL), 46.141 TF (HSE-1), 20.839 TF (HSE-2), 41.825 TF (DUAL-HALF)​
># PRIM UNITS: 4 (2 each SE, 1 each SA)​
># PRIMs/CLOCK PER UNIT: 4​
># TRI RAS/CLOCK PER UNIT: 2​
>PRIMITIVES PER CLOCK: 16​
>TRIANGLES PER CLOCK: 8​
>GEOMETRY CULLING RATE: 43.568 billion (FULL), 34.331 billion (HSE-1), 36.179 billion (HSE-2), 43.568 billion (DUAL-HALF)​
>TRIANGLE RASTERIZATION RATE: 21.784 billion (FULL), 17.1655 billion (HSE-1), 18 billion (HSE-2), 21.784 billion (DUAL-HALF)​
>PIXEL FILL RATE: 348.544 Gpixels/s (FULL), 411.973 Gpixels/s (HALF HE-1), 289.439 Gpixels/s (HALF-HE 2), 348.544 Gpixels/s (DUAL-HALF)*​
* = 261.408 Gpixels/s (HSE-1, 96 ROPs), 87.136 Gpixels/s (HSE-2 32 ROPs), or:​
* = 174.272 Gpixels/s (HSE-1, 64 ROPs), 174.272 Gpixels/s (HSE-2, 64 ROPs)​
>TEXTURE FILL RATE: 1307.04 Gtexels/s (FULL), 1441.906 Gtexels/s (HALF SE-1), 651.239 Gtexels/s (HALF-SE-2), 1307.04 Gtexels/s (DUAL-HALF)*​
* = 914.928 Gtexels/s (SE1), 392.112 Gtexels/s (SE2)​
>THREAD DEPLOYMENT RATE: 81,920 (FULL), 57,344 (HSE-1), 24,576 (HSE-2), 81,920 (DUAL-HALF)​
>CACHE CAPACITY:​
>L0$: 16 KB per CU (1.152 MB total)​
>L1$: 64 KB per dual-CU/WGP (2.304 MB total)​
>L2$: 512 KB per Array (2 MB total)​
>L3$: 64 MB​
>TOTAL: 69.456 MB​
>CACHE BANDWIDTH:​
>L0$: 41.4 TB/s (FULL), 45.679 TB/s (HALF SE-1), 20.63 TB/s (HALF SE-2), 41.4 TB/s (DUAL-HALF)*​
* = 28.98 TB/s (HSE-1), 12.42 TB/s (HSE-2)​
>L1$: 28.98 TB/s (FULL), 31.975 TB/s (HALF SE-1), 12.42 TB/s (HALF-SE-2), 28.98 TB/s (DUAL-HALF) (L0$ * .70)​
>L2$: 17.388 TB/s (FULL), 19.185 TB/s (HALF SE-1), 7.452 TB/s (HALF SE-2), 17.388 TB/s (DUAL-HALF) (L1$ * .60)​
>L3$: 8.694 TB/s (FULL), 9.592 TB/s (HALF SE-1), 3.76 TB/s (HALF SE-2), 8.694 TB/s (DUAL-HALF) (L1$ * .30)​
>TOTAL: 96.462 TB/s (FULL), 106.431 TB/s (HALF SE-1), 44.262 TB/s (HALF SE-2), 96.462 TB/s (DUAL-HALF)​

[TASK ACCELERATION ENGINE]
**Heavily modified CU for various hardware-based RT, ML, IU, AI tasks​
**Each Shader Engine paired with a Task Acceleration Engine​
**TAEs can house either 1 or 2 Task Acceleration Arrays​
**TAAs can be of any size when it comes to TAUs; ideal​
balanced designs call for TAAs that are 50% the core unit​
count of a design's Shader Array (i.e design with 5 Dual CU​
Shader Arrays (10 CUs) having 5 TAU TAAs).​
**TAUs can be seen as pseudo-FPGA cores; each unit has internal​
fixed-function hardware plus a modified frontend compared​
to normal CUs. TAUs also can range from having the following:​
>2,000 To 8,000 logic cells​
>16 Kb (2 KB) to 128 Kb (16 KB) distributed RAM (LUT) (acts as L0$)​
>64 Kb (8 KB) to 512 Kb (64 KB) BRAM (acts as L1$)​
>Internal Command Sync & Program Interface Configuration core​
(directed by application to program the FPGA logic into​
desired program state, manage unit state)​
>Compute Thread Controller core (this is what programmers​
interface with in dispatching code for the configured units​
in the TAA to execute)​
>1 Mb (128 KB) to 4 Mb (512 KB) SRAM (L2$, shared with all units in TAA;​
meant for processed data locality storage)​
>Shared 6 MB XIP (Execute-in-Place) Resource State Preset-allocated​
MRAM (holds the microcode in bit-addressable/byte-addressable​
format for immediate configuration)*​
* = Will be able to be updated with future firmware changes​
* = Shared between both TAAs​
* = Used to configure the FPGA logic and fixed-function​
aggregate unit states to specific profile presets (RT, ML, AI,​
or IU) by storing the relevant set-up and configure/compile data​
># TAEs: 2 (1 per SA)​
># TASK ACCELERATION UNITS (TAU) PER TAE: 7 (HSE-1), 6 (HSE-2), 13 (TOTAL)​
>LOGIC CELLS: 4500 (per TAU); 31,500 (TAE; HSE-1), 27,000 (TAE; HSE-2), 58,500 (total)​
>LUT RAM (L0$): 8 KB (per TAU), 56 KB (TAE; HSE-1), 48 KB (TAE; HSE-2) 104 KB (total)​
>BRAM (L1$): 32 KB (per TAU), 224 KB (TAE; HSE-1), 192 KB (TAE; HSE-2), 416 KB (total)​
>SRAM (L2$): 256 KB (TAE; HSE-1), 128 KB (TAE; HSE-2), 384 KB (total)​
>MRAM: 6 MB (total)​
># CU: 1 (PER DUAL CU IN SA), 5 (PER SA), 10 (TOTAL)​

[AUDIO]

>ARCHITECTURE: Microsoft Next Audio Engine (NAE)​
>GENERATION: 1​
>DSPs: 4 (4x Logan)​
>PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC: 2 (CFPU2 Gen 2)​
>Can leverage up to 128 GB/s of system bandwidth; in practice will rarely​
require this amount​

[MEMORY]

>TYPE: HBM4 (GPU/Audio), DDR6 (CPU)​
>GENERATION: 1​
>MODULE CAPACITY: 1 GB (GPU/Audio), 4 GB (CPU, per DIMM module)​
>MODULE AMOUNT: 24x (HBM4), 2x (DDR6, DIMM modules)​
>CONFIGURATION: 2x 12-HI (GPU/Audio), 2-Channel (DDR6)​
>I/O PIN BANDWIDTH: 4 Gbps (500 MB/s) (GPU/Audio), 11.2 Gbps (1.7 GB/s) (DDR6)​
>I/O PIN COUNT: 128 (GPU/Audio), 64 (DDR6)​
>BUS WIDTH: 3072-bit (GPU/Audio), 128-bit (DDR6)​
>MODULE BANDWIDTH: 64 GB/s (GPU/Audio), 89.6 GB/s (CPU, per DIMM module)​
>TOTAL BANDWIDTH: 1536 GB/s (1.536 TB/s) (GPU/Audio), 179.2 GB/s (CPU), 1715.2 GB/s (1.7152 TB/s) (total)​
>TOTAL CAPACITY: 24 GB (GPU/Audio), 8 GB (CPU), 32 GB (total)​
*Of GPU/Audio pool, suggested split is 22 GB (1408 GB/s) GPU, 2 GB (128 GB/s) Audio.​
Amount adjustable by the developer​


[I/O COMPRESSION/DECOMPRESSION/MEMORY CONTROLLER]

[SSD]
>FORM FACTOR: M.2​
>INTERFACE: PCIe-CXL​
>INTERFACE GENERATION: 6.0​
>CONNECTION SLOT(S): 2x x2 (Series Z), 1x x2 & 1x x4 (Surface Z.D)​
>NAND TYPE: ZNAND​
>NAND MODULE CAPACITY: 2 Tb (256 GB)​
>NAND MODULE BANDWIDTH: 4 GB/s​
>NAND MODULE LATENCY: 1.8 ms​
>NAND MODULE CHANNELS: 4 (per module), 16 (total)​
># NAND MODULES: 4x​
>DEVICE BANDWIDTH : 16 GB/s​
>DEVICE BANDWIDTH SUPPORT: 16 GB/s (x2, Series Z), 32 GB/s (x4, Surface Z.D)​
>DRIVE CAPACITY: 2 TB (2048 GB)​
>MAXIMUM SUPPORTED DRIVE CAPACITY: 16 TB (16384 GB)(Series Z), 64 TB (Surface Z.D)​
[FLASH MEMORY CONTROLLER]
>STORAGE CACHE: DDR6, 2 GB​
>INTERFACE SUPPORT: x4 (full) M.2 PCIe-CXL 6.0 NVMe & x2 (half) M.2 PCIe-CXL 6.0 NVMe (Surface Z.D),​
2x x2 (half) M.2 PCIe-CXL 6.0 NVMe (Series Z)​
>BANDWIDTH CAPACITY (CACHE): 89.6 GB/s​
>LATENCY THRESHOLD: Sub-100 ns​
[COMPRESSOR/DECOMPRESSOR/MANAGEMENT]
>DECOMPRESSION BANDWIDTH LIMIT (HARDWARE): 64 GB/s​
>DECOMPRESSION RATIO: 4:1​
>COMPRESSION BANDWIDTH LIMIT (HARDWARE): 64 GB/s​
>COMPRESSION RATIO: 4:1​
># ENGINES: 6​
1: SSD Device Core (manages both SSD units)​
2: NVRAM Path Block (PB)​
3: CPU Path Block (PB)​
4: GPU Path Block (PB)​
5: Ethernet/Wifi Path Block (PB)​
6: Management Core (MC)​


[PERIPHERAL SUPPORT]

>USB GENERATION SUPPORT: GEN 1, GEN 2, GEN 3, GEN 4​
>USB-C SUPPORT: YES​
># USB PORTS: 4 (Series Z), 3 (Surface Z.D)​
(Series Z)
>FRONT: 2x regular USB Gen 4 Type-C 2x2​
(controllers, charging kits, etc.)​
>BACK: 1x USB Gen 4 Type-A 2x2, 1x USB Gen 3​
(Surface Z.D)
>1x regular USB Gen 4 Type-C 2x2, 1x USB Gen 3, 1x USB Gen 2​
>MICRO SD SUPPORT: YES​
*Physical media delivery (64 GB/128 GB/192 GB Game Cards). Managed by FMC & Decompressor.​
*Game Card bandwidth: 72 MB/s​
># MICRO SD SLOTS: 1 (Series Z) (FRONT, UHS-III, SDHC class), 2 (Surface Z.D) (1 FRONT, 1 SIDE)​
>CF EXPRESS SUPPORT: YES​
># CF EXPRESS SLOTS: 1 (Series Z), 1 (Surface Z.D)​
*For BC of Series X and Series S Expansion Storage Cards​
>THUNDERBOLT SUPPORT: NO (Series Z), YES (Surface Z.D)​
># THUNDERBOLT PORTS: 1 (Back)​
>PCIe SUPPORT: YES​
>PCIe SUPPORT GENERATION: 6.0-CXL​
># PCIe SLOTS:​
>SERIES Z (6): 1x x8 (64 GB/s) PCIe 6.0-CXL High-Speed slot (GPU support), 2x x2 (16 GB/s each)​
M.2 NVMe Gen 6-CXL slots(SSD/storage slots), 2x x2 (16 GB/s each) M.NVRAM slots ( NVRAM support),​
1x x2 PCIe 3.0 (for included wireless module)​
>SURFACE Z.D (4): 1x x16 (128 GB/s) PCIe 6.0-CXL High-Speed link (GPU), 1x x4 (32 GB/s) M.2 NVMe Gen 6-CXL slot​
(SSD/storage slots), 2x x2 (16 GB/s each) M.NVRAM slots ( NVRAM support)​
>SURFACE Z.D DOCKING BAY/BLOCK (4): 1x x2 (16 GB/s) M.2 NVMe Gen 6-CXL slot (SSD/storage slot), 2x x4​
PCIe 6.0 (general peripherals), 1x x2 PCIe 3.0 (for optional devices like Series Z-branded wireless module)​


[WIFI/ETHERNET/BLUETOOTH]

[ETHERNET]
>IMPLEMENTATION: Single Port​
>ETHERNET PHYSICAL LAYER: 25 Gbit​
>NAME: 25GBASE​
>STANDARD: 802.3bq-2016​
>CONNECTOR: RJ45​
>LINE CODE: 64b/66b​
>TRANSCEIVER MODULE: SFP28​
>RECOMMENDED CABLE: 25GBASE-CR, 25GBASE-CR-S​
>BANDWIDTH: 3.125 GB/s​
[WIFI]
>IMPLEMENTATION: Single Module​
>NAME: Wifi 7​
>STANDARD: 801.11acx​
>ENCODE RATE: 8b/10b encoding​
>HARDWARE MU-MIMO STREAMS: 12​
>BANDWIDTH: 2925.427 Mbps per MIMO, 14.627 Gbps theoretical, 1.828 GB/s converted​
>Specs for included wireless transmission module are:​
>12 MU-MIMO antenna streams (4x 160 MHz + 4x 320 MHz)​
>7 GHz band (7234 MHz)​
>Compatible with 160 MHz + 80 MHz channel width​
>1659.962 Mbps per MIMO (160 MHz), (60 MHz)​
>19.91954489925 Gbps theoretical​
>2.48994 GB/s converted​
>~ 2.240946 GB/s effective (90% utilization)​
>The ethernet/wifi processing block has the following specifications:​
>Dual-core/quad-thread high-end ZEN-ARM processor block​
>Embedded 256 MB PS-RAM​
>25 Gbit ethernet PHY and LOG layer integration; ethernet port link off-chip​
ethernet port module (where ethernet cable plugs in)​

[VR/AR SUPPORT]

**No included VR/AR headset​
**Built-in support for Microsoft Mesh​
**Microsoft will build upon partnerships with existing VR headset providers such as Samsung, HTC, Sony etc.​
to provide infrastructure for 3P headset compatibility on Series Z systems.​


[PRICING]

>SURFACE Z.D:​
$2499.99 (Basic model with Windows Next Home Edition)​
$2999.99 (Model with Docking Bay)​
$2599.99 - $3099.99 (Models with bundled 15 months of Office suite subscriptions)​
$2749.99 - $3349.99 (Models with 2 to 4-year Microsoft Protection Plans)​
$549.99 (Docking Bay)​
>SERIES Z: $499.99​

[RELEASE]

>November 2026 (Surface Z.D)
>Fall 2027 or Spring 2028 (Series Z)

-------
 
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(continued from above)

So, that's what I think a 10th-gen Xbox console/platform could look like from the hardware side of things. There's obviously the chance this doesn't play out, but I tried my best to look at various data trends and extrapolate any patterns from them, and keeping in mind the general business strategies these companies seem they want to pursue, their markets of interest, and tried timing things out as best as able.

If you all have any ideas for what YOU think Microsoft'll do for 10th-gen system designs (or if you already shared them in one of the other threads like this I did), please post/re-post them so we can discuss. If you think it's too early to talk 10th-gen, keep in mind these companies are ALREADY in planning stages for future system designs, so if they feel it's a good time to start brainstorming, so can we :goog_wink:

I will post my speculation for Sony's 10th-gen designs tomorrow, but in a separate thread, and link the two threads together. PLEASE keep this one focused solely on Microsoft and save any Sony-related stuff for the Sony thread once I post it Friday. Also again, if you want me to explain ANYTHING with what I posted, just ask and I can do so; I've been working on this stuff on-and-off for the past several months in my spare time, I have enough notes to pull from ;)

Interested to see what thoughts and ideas you have 👍
 

Stuart360

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Are you asking if there will be mid gen 'Pro' consoles this gen, or are you asking if there will be a 'Xbox 5?.
Yes i think there will be a Xbox 5, but i think that COULD be the last generation.
No i dont think there will be mid gen refreshes this gen as both XSX and PS5 are way more powerful at launch than XB1 and PS4. Plus what would be the 'hook' this time for Pro consoles?, because neither of them would be powerful enough to come close to 8k resolution.
 
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Are you asking if there will be mid gen 'Pro' consoles this gen, or are you asking if there will be a 'Xbox 5?.
Yes i think there will be a Xbox 5, but i think that COULD be the last generation.

The latter; I'll see if I can fix up the question in the poll to make it clearer. I also agree that, outside of specialty systems from smaller/more niche companies perhaps, 10th-gen will probably be the final generation of mainstream mass-market console releases.

By the time that gen is done streaming and internet infrastructure will have most likely massively improved to satisfy pretty much every gaming experience through the cloud, even almost all competitive games.
 
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Stuart360

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The latter; I'll see if I can fix up the question in the poll to make it clearer. I also agree that, outside of specialty systems from smaller/more niche companies perhaps, 10th-gen will probably be the final generation of mainstream mass-market console releases.

By the time that gen is done streaming and internet infrastructure will have most likely massively improved to satisfy pretty much every gaming experience through the cloud, even almost all competitive games.
Yeah i mean we will probably get a load of laughing smilies for saying it, but people need to remember we are talking like 15 or 16 years from now, when Gen 10 will end. So yeah i could def see one of, or both, of Microsoft and Sony go streaming only.
I actually feel we may get 2 more hardware generations, but that imo is the limit.
 
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Yeah i mean we will probably get a load of laughing smilies for saying it, but people need to remember we are talking like 15 or 16 years from now, when Gen 10 will end. So yeah i could def see one of, or both, of Microsoft and Sony go streaming only.
I actually feel we may get 2 more hardware generations, but that imo is the limit.
An 11th gen would REAAAALLLLY need some crazy stuff to justify it, but considering (IMO) VR & AR (AR a bit less so) will already be prioritized for 11th gen even more than wherever it reaches for 10th-gen...what else is there gonna be really? That cloud streaming won't be able to satisify for the vast majority who aren't the absolute most hardest of the hardcore?

It's probably a good guess to assume that by the end of 10th-gen, the only consoles (as in, mass-market gaming specialized computing devices sold in the millions for the living room) we'll probably see from there are very niche systems with very specific market uses. If you know a few things on stuff like Exa-Arcadia, picture something like that in the future, an arcade system getting some kind of consolized design players can use to play the games at home, priced similarly to stuff like Neo-Geo AES. Maybe tied to some arcade membership plan for software rentals & purchases, even hardware rentals of the consolized version.

I think that's basically going to become the future of the console: highly specialized/niche systems for a very specific segment of the gaming market as option for gaming. Ironically I think that gives more an opportunity for Microsoft to continue some type of console-like designs past 10th-gen over Sony; for Microsoft they could just do Steambox-like designs sold at profit giving another access point for gaming. They'd be priced quite higher than regular consoles but you can basically use them as pre-built PCs. Sony doesn't have that incentive for them: if they want to keep PlayStation going it has to be something that can be done at massive volumes for relatively affordable pricing, potentially taking small losses on the hardware to make it up in software sales.

A.K.A the more traditional model, but with the way streaming tech and business models will progress over the next 10-15 or so years, we can see a huge chunk of the mainstream market using that as their main way to play, especially as general electronic devices keep getting more capable, internet infrastructure and pricing improves, and diminishing returns creates less of an incentive to keep pushing POWER! POWER! POWER! with each passing console generation. That, and we're starting to reach a practical limit in ways to play that might particularly benefit for local native processing power. VR & AR are arguably the last bastions IMO, but there are going to be physical real-estate limitations for both of those that will impact how they can be developed for console gaming anyway (environments like arcades/FECs are much less restricted in these areas). Game design (and physical feedback hardware development) around VR & AR should accelerate a lot this gen and be just about perfected by the end of 10th-gen, so that doesn't leave much justifications as the mass-market level for dedicated gaming consoles anymore :S.

Thankfully this all won't come to pass until probably 2035 at earliest, just enough time for this gen and 10th-gen to do their thing.
 

reksveks

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Take the latest and greatest AMD APU in three years time and then assume that's in the new Series X (2023). And there similarly will be a series S update.

That's my prediction
 
Aug 28, 2019
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What is "ZEN-ARM"?
Something I made up referring to AMD's K2 (I think it's called K2, correct me if I'm wrong) ARM chips they were R&D'ing a few years back. They put that on ice but they could easily start work back on it again if they haven't already.

ZEN-ARM is just a marketing term I put to whatever chip line they would decide to make out of that R&D, they could call it anything else. But I assumed if Zen is still stuck with for the next several years, they would leverage that for branding purposes for that hypothetical ARM-based chip.

Yeah, I think we are seeing Microsoft going into the mobile phone model. I think there could be some more interesting quirks if Microsoft pick up the pace on designing their own chips but doubt it.
That's an interesting way of looking at it and Microsoft have the means to do it. IIRC they are putting more R&D into their own ARM designs internally, I'm interested to see what comes out of that. But we are probably at least two if not three years away from seeing anything of a working product from such developments.
Continue the 'Series' obviously, but definitely a proper nextgen system.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking (hoping) they do as well. If by some chance they do two systems again I hope they don't name them so they sound awfully similar when talking.
 
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A and B. We will get updates every 3/4 years like the XOX, but every 7/8 years the oldest model will roll off.

Sounds good; basically similar to what they're doing now, aside maybe some brief extended support for the "newest" old model being phased out.

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10th-gen Sony thread now up! Interested to see you guys n' gals thoughts and ideas 👍
 
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