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Rewatched Batman v Superman Extended Edition; this version of the movie's pretty good

Inferno313

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The biggest thing the UC does is strengthen Superman's narrative. A lot of the cut stuff is cut Clark material. In the UC, it's pretty clearly Clark's story with Bruce serving as the villain, and that works and that's what the film should've been in the first place.

By cutting as many of Clark's scenes as they did in the TC, it feels like a really fucking janky movie because it starts to feel like Bruce is meant to be the protagonist, just given the greater amount of screentime that he has, but his actions are villanious in nature. I feel like that's why the film didn't work for a lot of people.

The UC, while not suddenly a great film, is much better because it's now coherent, and now has an actual, clearly defined protagonist. That's not to say it isn't kind of misguided, overly bleak, or has tons of problems on a conceptual level, because it does. But the UC is at least a competently made film, which I can't say of the TC.
 

Ninjimbo

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It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.
 

a916

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I think the logic would be that Batman's dream is fueled by his already existing fear of Superman

That's the way I viewed it. He's already frightful of him...

The thing that got messy for me was... was it a dream... or were we watching alternate future and the Flash ran back in time to warn him. It should have been one or the other. Flash coming back made it seem like it wasn't. But then Bruce is asleep so it's also treated like a dream.
 

cr0w

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I still don't understand why the Parademons are there at all, is it to enforce Batman's fear of Supes going full evil? Did he became the new leader of Apokolips? Hell, does Batman even know who Darkseid or the Parademons are?

It's not a dream, though. It's a vision or premonition of an actual possible future. He's not working out issues from his subconscious, he's seeing actual events.
 

Glass Rebel

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It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.

The Knightmare sequence is the exact kind of pandering people accuse CBMs of. But unlike the easter eggs or post-credit scenes we're accustomed of, Snyder packs it in the middle of the movie just to satisfy comic book nerds with Flash time-travel shenanigans, parademons and a big-ass omega.

It adds nothing but only further confuses an already incoherent plot and hollow character motivations.
 

Ninjimbo

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The Knightmare sequence is the exact kind of pandering people accuse CBMs of. But unlike the easter eggs or post-credit scenes we're accustomed of, Snyder packs it in the middle of the movie just to satisfy comic book nerds with Flash time-travel shenanigans, parademons and a big-ass omega.

It adds nothing but only further confuses an already incoherent plot and hollow character motivations.
I don't care. I followed the story just fine and the stuff that comes out of left field just makes it more intriguing on a rewatch.
 

jrcbandit

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I agree that the extended cut actually helped save the incoherent mess that was the theatrical version and the bad points you laid out. However, in its current incarnation it is more like a 6/10 while the theatrical mess was a 2-3/10. The mausoleum dream sequence and the "future" dream sequences needed to all be cut from the movie period, it just confused audiences and went on for way too long. I guess they could have left the Flash sequence in just to let audiences know that something must be done or a horrible future is coming. The justice league cameo videos in the final act of the movie was ridiculously bad/ruined the pacing - why not just have them as after credit scenes if the studio execs forced them in? Both of these are easy 5 minute fixes that would have significantly improved the film.... Now the Martha stuff and the poor CGI of Doomsday would take allot more effort to fix.
 

cr0w

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The Knightmare sequence is the exact kind of pandering people accuse CBMs of. But unlike the easter eggs or post-credit scenes we're accustomed of, Snyder packs it in the middle of the movie just to satisfy comic book nerds with Flash time-travel shenanigans, parademons and a big-ass omega.

It adds nothing but only further confuses an already incoherent plot and hollow character motivations.

God forbid we insert comic references into a comic movie, well I never.

I also had zero issues following the plot. If you want incoherent, watch something like Manos or Troll 2. You may not like where the plot goes, but that alone doesn't make something incoherent. It just means you didn't like it.
 

Blader

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I think the logic would be that Batman's dream is fueled by his already existing fear of Superman

Which goes back to my original point: he was already afraid of Superman! Lex and the Knightmare sequence are being thrown on top of the plot to justify a character motivation that was already justified by the first 10 mins of the movie.

It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.

huh? This is what everyone has been saying about it since the movie came out.
 

Glass Rebel

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I don't care. I followed the story just fine and the stuff that comes out of left field just makes it more intriguing on a rewatch.

So Snyder does pander? Glad we cleared that up.

God forbid we insert comic references into a comic movie, well I never.

I also had zero issues following the plot. If you want incoherent, watch something like Manos or Troll 2. You may not like where the plot goes, but that alone doesn't make something incoherent. It just means you didn't like it.

The "you just didn't like it" defense is just tired at this point. I didn't like it because it was bad. It's not difficult to see what is happening, the problem is the why. The audience never gets a clear sense of why these characters are behaving the way they are, except for Bruce, perhaps. Snyder is notorious for this shit, taking cinematic shortcuts and making the audience just accept the things happening on screen at face-value. People have talked about this before so I'm not the first to say these things.
 

Ninjimbo

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huh? This is what everyone has been saying about it since the movie came out.
Nah. Most people refer to it as a dream or a prophecy. An actual time skip is a different thing altogether. Admittedly tho, the theory is a little old. The post I read it in was made last year lol.
 

cr0w

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So Snyder does pander? Glad we cleared that up.



The "you just didn't like it" defense is just tired at this point. I didn't like it because it was bad. It's not difficult to see what is happening, the problem is the why. The audience never gets a clear sense of why these characters are behaving the way they are, except for Bruce, perhaps. Snyder is notorious for this shit, taking cinematic shortcuts and making the audience just accept the things happening on screen at face-value. People have talked about this before so I'm not the first to say these things.

Well, I mean...anyone can find dozens of YouTube examples to echo their opinions on anything, that doesn't mean that they're universally true. People have talked a lot about a lot of things before.

You didn't like it because you didn't like it and thought it was bad. That's okay. That's perfectly fine. That doesn't mean that's the only possible option.
 

Inferno313

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It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.

Huh? This is obvious...
 

Glass Rebel

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Well, I mean...anyone can find dozens of YouTube examples to echo their opinions on anything, that doesn't mean that they're universally true. People have talked a lot about a lot of things before.

You didn't like it because you didn't like it and thought it was bad. That's okay. That's perfectly fine. That doesn't mean that's the only possible option.

Are you actually going to refute anything I said or just continue your tired line of argumentation?
 

Resident_UA

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So there is a monthly "new thread" about this movie. I was the one to do the last one :)

I enjoyed this movie as well. Not great but definitely enjoyable if you don't take it too seriously.
 

cr0w

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Are you actually going to refute anything I said or just continue your tired line of argumentation?

What's the point? I could post actual logical rebuttals for complaints, as I have been doing all thread, and they'll be ignored in favor of hot takes calling the movie shit.

There's a distinct pattern to these threads, in that people defending the movie will actually post reasonable shit that's never replied to beyond, "I didn't like the movie so it's shit."

Give me an example of a character motivation you thought was unclear. I'm not going to reach into thin air and try to rebut a complaint you may or may not have. And I'm not talking about something you regurgitate from a YouTube video. What don't you, personally, understand about the movie?
 
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I mean he did pretty much do a 180 before he sacrificed himself to kill Doomsday. He even says, 'This is my world. You are my world.' before he gives up his life for it.

Whether you like or dislike how he got to that point is an entirely different issue, but you can't completely ignore an actual part of the film that directly addresses the part you had an issue with.

How does it address it? That 180 is incredibly forced considering the plot machinations between Superman's self-imposed exile and meeting Luthor. IIRC, after his exile, Superman hears Lois about to fall to death before saving her. So how did we get from "I'm just a dead farmer's dream. My world doesn't exist" to "This is my world"? Doesn't seem fluid or natural to Superman's "arc."
 

cr0w

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How does it address it? That 180 is incredibly forced considering the plot machinations between Superman's self-imposed exile and meeting Luthor. IIRC, after his exile, Superman hears Lois about to fall to death before saving her. So how did we get from "I'm just a dead farmer's dream. My world doesn't exist" to "This is my world"? Doesn't seem fluid or natural to Superman's "arc."

There's an entire showdown with Batman and fight with Doomsday between "My world doesn't exist" and "This is my world". 30-45 minutes worth of movie.

He's at his lowest point as he heads toward his fight with Bruce, because he feels his only option is to kill him to save his mom. After the fight and Bruce allies with him to save his mom, he has reason to change his outlook and he no longer feels hopeless about the world. He's got something to fight for, which isn't something he had previously.

There's this relentless cherry picking with regards to this movie that's fucking maddening. "I didn't like this scene, so I'm just going to forget everything else that happened over the course of 3+ hours." There's no point, it's like arguing with an extremely stubborn pile of mashed potatoes.
 
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crOw, don't you know you have to prove your opinion in these threads?

Anyway, I've come to the realization that so many think this film is bad because they've become used to the taste and texture of the recycled shit produced by the Marvel Centipede Universe. :p
 

Shaanyboi

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crOw, don't you know you have to prove your opinion in these threads?

Anyway, I've come to the realization that so many think this film is bad because they've become used to the taste and texture of the recycled shit produced by the Marvel Centipede Universe. :p
As opposed to the taste of Eisenberg's piss jar?

Maybe, just maybe, people don't want a movie that makes them feel utterly depressed about their superhero icons. Where Jimmy Olson is shot point-blank in the face, where Batman actively mows people down with gattling guns, and where you don't need to have a ton of DC knowledge beforehand to have a fucking clue what is going on in the Nightmare sequence which is followed by confused whispers of "was that supposed to be the Flash?"

If I have to explain what the fuck was happening in that 10 minute chunk right in the middle of the movie to my friends who have no firm grasp on DC lore, the movie probably did a bad fucking job of explaining itself.
 

cr0w

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crOw, don't you know you have to prove your opinion in these threads?

Anyway, I've come to the realization that so many think this film is bad because they've become used to the taste and texture of the recycled shit produced by the Marvel Centipede Universe. :p

Well I mean, I pretty much fucking have and as soon as one complaint is rebutted, it's ignored in favor of another hot take.
 

kewlmyc

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Surprised WW would get a 10. It's a good movie, but suffers from the same problem the other movies have in their last act.
 
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crOw, don't you know you have to prove your opinion in these threads?

Anyway, I've come to the realization that so many think this film is bad because they've become used to the taste and texture of the recycled shit produced by the Marvel Centipede Universe. :p

Or...it's just a bad film. That neither understands nor is interested in celebrating the source material.
 

Anung

Un Rama
Nov 13, 2013
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It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.

Huh? People didn't get that right away? I thought it was obvious and the point of the scene.
 

Vice

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Dec 23, 2009
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It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

I read something about the Knightmare sequence that kinda blew me away. Aparently it's not a dream or prophecy at all. It's actually a time skip to a future where Superman loses his goddamn mind because Lois died and he kills Bruce. The Flash tease is actually Barry going back in time to stop that Future from ever happening which is why Barry disappears so suddenly after the meeting. His meeting with Bruce already set up a future that erases his timeline thus erasing him.

Snyder snuck time travel in the movie and barely anyone noticed lol. BvS is the movie that keeps on giving.
It was pretty obvious. It's a direct reference to stuff like Crisis on Infinite Earths. But, having junk for comic fans to geek out over isn't interesting for most people if it slows the story down and doesn't have much payoff in the 2:30 to 3 hour film. Me, a big comic fan, included.
 

MattKeil

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They actually had reference material from the Arkham games and Rocksteady while they were constructing that scene, including the tech he used.

And initial contact between production and Rocksteady came because the production was very angry that Rocksteady's Batmobile design for Arkham Knight was so similar to the design for BvS. Rocksteady's was done first, and was just coincidentally similar, but it led to conflict, apparently. The end result seems to have been that scene, though, which is pretty much the only good scene in the film (minus how many people Batman kills, but I guess you just have to accept Snyder likes his heroes to be murderers), so well done to Rocksteady.
 

Blader

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Nah. Most people refer to it as a dream or a prophecy. An actual time skip is a different thing altogether. Admittedly tho, the theory is a little old. The post I read it in was made last year lol.

People refer to it as a dream just because that's what it appears like to Bruce; from his perspective, it's a dream, as he literally wakes up from it to end the scene. But of course it's time travel. I mean, what else do you think Flash is doing in that scene? lol
 

Shoeless

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One thing I am curious about with regards to the death of Superman in this movie is whether or not that sacrifice averted the possible Darkseid invasion, or whether that's a lingering "seed" of a plot point that they want to address in future JL or MoS movies.

It's not a bad idea to have Clark's worldview altered by the death of Lois Lane, as the Flash time-travel sequence implies, since games like Injustice, and even some really impressive "what if" comics like Kingdom Come have done some VERY interesting things with how the death Lois--especially at the hands of the Joker--cause a radical pivot in Superman's perception of the world.

In Kingdom Come, it causes him to withdraw from the world. In Injustice it causes him to try to take over the world. But in each case, Lois acts as the more personal connection that an otherwise godlike being has to the species he's trying to protect. I'm just curious whether they're still going to try to move forward with that in some way, or will his inevitable resurrection in the Justice League movie mean that the danger has now passed.
 

Inferno313

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People refer to it as a dream just because that's what it appears like to Bruce; from his perspective, it's a dream, as he's literally wakes up from it to the end the scene. But of course it's time travel. I mean, what else do you think Flash is doing in that scene? lol

Just swinging by for some Granny's Peach Tea, obvi.
 

Blader

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One thing I am curious about with regards to the death of Superman in this movie is whether or not that sacrifice averted the possible Darkseid invasion, or whether that's a lingering "seed" of a plot point that they want to address in future JL or MoS movies.

It was almost definitely seeding a plot for a future Justice League movie that is almost definitely going to be dropped given the BvS reception and overall change of direction in the DCEU. So yes, future averted :p
 

Glass Rebel

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What's the point? I could post actual logical rebuttals for complaints, as I have been doing all thread, and they'll be ignored in favor of hot takes calling the movie shit.

There's a distinct pattern to these threads, in that people defending the movie will actually post reasonable shit that's never replied to beyond, "I didn't like the movie so it's shit."

Give me an example of a character motivation you thought was unclear. I'm not going to reach into thin air and try to rebut a complaint you may or may not have. And I'm not talking about something you regurgitate from a YouTube video. What don't you, personally, understand about the movie?

I get the movie perfectly fine. I said it before in my post: What's happening on screen isn't exactly difficult to guess. The problem is that it doesn't feel real. It never does. Let's take Lex for example. We know why he hates Supes only from what he's telling him in his speech about god taking sides, wanting to expose Supes etc. We don't get to see how he came to hate a "god" (however he defines it) and how Sperman's appearance affects him. It just rings as hollow.
 

Budi

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I fully agree with the point I left in the quote. And I did like Affleck as Batman, but I'm not comfortable saying for him to be the best. I like Bale and Keaton too. For the action scenes, only the Batman solo ones impressed me. You really didn't convince me to give extended edition a chance.

Good points:
- Loved the intro taking place at the end of MoS from Bruce Wayne's POV.
 

Kid Ying

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It's fucking fantastic.

I wish more superhero movies aimed for the stars like this. It might have not quite gotten there, but it got far enough.

And yes, best Batman.
Exactly. Some things are pretty bad, like Luthor, but overall, it's awesome. I already miss movies like this if WW is Amy indication of the direction that Warner is going.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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There's an entire showdown with Batman and fight with Doomsday between "My world doesn't exist" and "This is my world". 30-45 minutes worth of movie.

He's at his lowest point as he heads toward his fight with Bruce, because he feels his only option is to kill him to save his mom. After the fight and Bruce allies with him to save his mom, he has reason to change his outlook and he no longer feels hopeless about the world. He's got something to fight for, which isn't something he had previously.

There's this relentless cherry picking with regards to this movie that's fucking maddening. "I didn't like this scene, so I'm just going to forget everything else that happened over the course of 3+ hours." There's no point, it's like arguing with an extremely stubborn pile of mashed potatoes.

You do realize the fight with Batman only proves my point about how Superman is reactionary? Instead of the fight being about diametrically opposing viewpoints, Superman merely gets involved because Luthor someone found a pressure point vs. someone that is omnipotent and might as well be omniscient with the way his senses are (notice how Superman can easily track Lois even if he's thousands of miles away, but somehow can't apply the same powers to track his mom?).

All I'm trying to argue is that narratively speaking, the connective tissue between Superman saying that he is a "dead farmer's dream" to "this is my world" is weak and unconvincing. We have a cynical Superman burdened by how the world is reacting to him > goes ahead and fights Batman under Luthor's orders > Doomsday fight:

To your response, you don't think Lois, Martha is good enough a reason for him to fight for his place in the world? This is what I've been trying to say all along, because Snyder doubled down on the cynicism, we end up with a bland hero who does things out of obligation rather than real desire. The things Superman wanted to fight for were still there before the Batman fight, so in essence, the Batman fight didn't change anything. The only thing that changed was the plot demanding that Superman now care because reasons. This is a huge departure from comics/DCAU Superman, as that Superman at his core is a selfless idealist and about representing the best of mankind, and moving towards being that very best. The Doomsday fight makes things even worse with how Superman apparently feels only he can sacrifice himself (despite that he was risking extreme damage/death), despite the fact that WW could've delivered the striking blow without being affected by the Kryptonite. The fight continued the inorganic feel that I've been arguing, except in this case, it's out of tradition to the comics (while the comics' way of killing Doomsday made more sense and was infinitely more tragic than the movie).
 
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I watched the extended cut. Was average. Didn't hate it. Didn't love it. However, I could see what they were going for and even though they didn't do a good enough job, it's still more endearing than anything else atm.
 

AuthenticM

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Are there fan cuts of this movie yet? I would be interested in one that excises the justice league bits from it.