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Rewatched Batman v Superman Extended Edition; this version of the movie's pretty good
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
- Start date
I strongly agree with the Lex Luthor stuff. It seems rare for two heroes to clash out of ideals alone. There always has to be some dastardly moustache twirling villain misleading and manipulating them into fighting, and it's annoying. What makes a clash of heroes interesting is the moral grey area they're fighting over, and putting in a villain ruins that.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I'm sorry, but we're going to have to revoke your opinion license.
tkscz
Member
Batman fighting all those soldiers in the desert area in that dream sequence or whatteverthefuck had choreography so bad it makes the Nolan Batman films look like The Raid.
What about the warehouse fight? I thought it was damned awesome.
I enjoyed the movie but I've always believed it was too bloated.
Lois should've remained a supporting character and that the movie should focus on her and Superman/Clark's relationship (if he turned evil for her death, I want to see them being closer). All the investigating of Luthor should've been done by Diana who Luthor had something on.
Call the movie Trinity. You can still have Batman and Superman fight due to their difference in crime fighting, but you can have WW break up their fight and bring them together, show that Luthor was behind it all. That way you don't have to make a silly reason for why they stopped fighting and suddenly get along.
The conflict between Batman/Superman made sense by itself, keep it focused on them running into each other and the other having discontentment over how they fought crime. Have Luthor causing the criminal activities in specific ways so the two would keep meeting up and building discontentment for one another until it builds into a fight between the two.
No Doomsday or
Death of Superman.
Luthor himself should've been the main antagonist if he was pulling the strings the entire time. Give him his suit, have him use the kryptonite he found. Have him pull the strings, but not magically know who Superman/Batman are. Like I said before, he could've easily been causing crime waves that would cause Batman and Superman to meet up.
Remove the dream sequence and JL references. We know their coming, no need to keep showing us. And honestly the dream adds nothing to the movie.
If you're going to have the Frank Miller suit in the movie, have it be used like the Frank Miller suit. It made him stronger, that would've made the fight so much more interesting. Hell, even stop at the point where the fight stopped in DKR, where Batman basically says he just wanted to show Superman he could take him down if he needs to.
cr0w
Old Member
No I get it, totally. I was hoping for more of a Rosenbaum-style Luthor but I guess I was more relieved that we didn't get another real estate scheme. I vastly prefer a cold, calculating Luthor but we've seen a hell of a lot of that type of villain in comic movies so far. Iron Man 1 & 3 and Ant-Man in particular already did the Luthor archetype pretty well, it's old hat.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
The Knightmare adds a ton to the movie.
It's an interesting movie with a good cast. the performances were good and it looked great. With that said, the pacing was terrible, the script was weak, and the editing was trash in both versions.
It feels like a movie more concerned with putting in Easter eggs, hooks for the next movie and having awesome action than telling an interesting or even serviceable story. A downer superhero movie is fine, (look at Logan or the Nolan Trilogy) but the stories in BvS weren't told well.
edit: The stronger first half in the extended cut makes the second half even worse compared to the theatrical cut. Spending time fleshing the story out and still coming to the same rushed conclusions is, to me, worse.
It feels like a movie more concerned with putting in Easter eggs, hooks for the next movie and having awesome action than telling an interesting or even serviceable story. A downer superhero movie is fine, (look at Logan or the Nolan Trilogy) but the stories in BvS weren't told well.
edit: The stronger first half in the extended cut makes the second half even worse compared to the theatrical cut. Spending time fleshing the story out and still coming to the same rushed conclusions is, to me, worse.
dr.rocktopus
Banned
I saw the extended cut for the first time this weekend. The additions in terms of explaining certain scenes and added story arcs really help to alleviate the "why are these people doing these things" feeling of the theatrical cut. Lex actually comes off as having a plan with his further explained setups, versus just kind of doing stuff because. The movie still asks interesting questions, but it got tossed aside cause of a greater threat. The "resolution" feels like a bad high school essay where you kind of get what they're getting at with MARTHA!! but it takes way too many jumps to get to that conclusion, especially for such a long movie.
I think he was close to it towards the end with the shaved head and deeper/more aggressive voice. With the right acting changes he can be a pretty good lex IMO. He's not going to be huge like the DCAU Lex, but neither was Smallville Lex and that version was great, imo
For DC comic fans yeah. But if that's not you--which was my wife--then it gets irritating when the person beside you is losing their mind and shouting "OH MAN! PARADEMON?!? I THINK THAT WAS A PARADEMON!" and "AAAAH! OMEGA SYMBOL! DARKSEEEEEEEID!"
Throw in the stuff with Steppenwolf and Motherboxes and you have a happy DC fan and a confused everyone else.
cr0w
Old Member
My friend and I were basically jumping out of our chairs at all that while 95% of the rest of the theater were just confused. It was hilarious to me.
If you read the rest of my post you'd understand why
Yeah. I did love the nods the BvS made for the longtime DC fans. I was almost howling with laughter at that "blink and you miss it" moment with Batman in his pose from the Dark Knight cover with the lightning bolt. One thing Snyder did do was seed a lot of intimate DC Universe references for the fans, and I did appreciate that.
It's just sad that the story itself turned out a bit too uneven for my taste, but I can't fault either the art direction, the action, or the fanservice. That stuff was all great. When Batman took out those guys in the warehouse, I straight up believed Snyder had been playing a ton of Batman Arkham games and thought "Y'know what, we can do this for real."
cr0w
Old Member
They actually had reference material from the Arkham games and Rocksteady while they were constructing that scene, including the tech he used.
I did not know this at all, but it makes a lot more sense now that you've told me.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
clark: "all this time i've been living my life the way my father saw it. righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good...superman was never real. it was just the dream of a farmer from kansas."
lois: "that farmer's dream is all some people have. it's all that gives them hope. *touches S* - this means something."
clark: "it did on my world. my world doesn't exist anymore."
lois: "that farmer's dream is all some people have. it's all that gives them hope. *touches S* - this means something."
clark: "it did on my world. my world doesn't exist anymore."
cr0w
Old Member
It competes with Unbreakable for the top slot, for me.
I guess you could say I really like a certain tone in my superhero films.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
The only good thing of the EC was seeing Supes acting more like Clark Kent, doing journalist work. The bad stuff is still bad.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
clark: "all this time i've been living my life the way my father saw it. righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good...superman was never real. it was just the dream of a farmer from kansas."
lois: "that farmer's dream is all some people have. it's all that gives them hope. *touches S* - this means something."
clark: "it did on my world. my world doesn't exist anymore."
Perfectly encapsulates why this rendition of Superman is reactionary and does things out of obligation rather than a real desire to do good in the world. Snyder completely missed the point about who and what Superman represents, and doubled down on the "hero questioning himself" trope without the appropriate build up to his arc.
cr0w
Old Member
I mean he did pretty much do a 180 before he sacrificed himself to kill Doomsday. He even says, 'This is my world. You are my world.' before he gives up his life for it.
Whether you like or dislike how he got to that point is an entirely different issue, but you can't completely ignore an actual part of the film that directly addresses the part you had an issue with.
maximum360
Member
I revisited B v. S a few days ago on blu ray for the 3rd time (2nd time watching the Extended Cut) and I like the movie better with each rewatch. I was in the mood to see it again after being blown away by movie of the year contender WONDER WOMAN. The theatrical version of B v. S was a mess, but I feel the Extended version brings the movie up to "pretty good" status, perhaps slightly above Man of Steel which I also enjoyed (Academy Award winning Suicide Squad though is something I have no desire to see again).
Good points:
- The visuals are fantastic. As per with Snyder.
- The best on screen version of Batman. Affleck nailed it.
- Loved the intro taking place at the end of MoS from Bruce Wayne's POV.
- The fights were fantastic.
- I enjoyed the senator character, and the look of dread on her face when she sees the jar of Granny's Peach Tea in the courthouse is one of the best scenes in the film. Great tension.
- Wonder Woman was the highlight of the film. Everyone in the theater was so HYPED when she showed up and her theme kicked in.
- The whole Lois Lane investigation storyline makes sense in the Extended Cut and the senate hearing is expanded upon. Amy Adams is always enjoyable.
- Superman looks good.
Bad points:
- Lex Luther. Whew, casting Michael Cera's lookalike as the big villain was a mistake, and making him this jittery mess just didn't work imo. Is he supposed to be a misunderstood genius? LMAO
- Doomsday could have looked a bit more threatening. Looked like a cartoon. My friend refers to him as that "Shrek looking blob".
- That dream or future prophecy part or whatever still makes no sense. I had to look it up online to find out what the "Knightmare" sequence even meant.
- The laptop scene where you see clips of Aquaman/Cyborg etc. really killed the pacing in the final act. Really weird, unnatural way to shoehorn your extended universe into a film. Plus the clips had ready made logos for the characters...a mess.
- Should Superman be this dreary of a guy?
I don't know where to place the whole "Martha" thing. I didn't have a problem with it, there really wasn't a good way to end the fight which should have been a lot more one-sided, but I don't do comics so I have no idea if Clark and Bruce Wayne actually do have moms with the same first name.
I'd give the theatrical a 5/10 and the Extended Cut an 8/10. It could be an 8.5 if they had cut out the Knightmare and laptop scenes. Wonder Woman gets a 10 (Man of Steel would get a 7.5 and Suicide Squad gets a 5 from me).
Did you think the Extended Cut "Kingdom of Heaven'd" this film? Discuss.
This, this, this. It is my main gripe with the movie. Horrible casting.
clark: "all this time i've been living my life the way my father saw it. righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good...superman was never real. it was just the dream of a farmer from kansas."
lois: "that farmer's dream is all some people have. it's all that gives them hope. *touches S* - this means something."
clark: "it did on my world. my world doesn't exist anymore."
This convo bothered me because it was a retcon of the first movie. Pa Kent's dream in this movie was for Clark to become Superman? What?
cr0w
Old Member
Clark is also a farmer from Kansas.
This.
It's literally how Man of Steel ends. Martha tells Clark that. The ending scene where they are walking in the grave yard and it shows a flashback to Jonathan seeing a young Clark with the red cape.
Count Dookkake
Member
BvS:UC is the greatest CBM of all time.
Even with Whedon's meddling, I still hold hope for JL to surpass it.
Even with Whedon's meddling, I still hold hope for JL to surpass it.
Colonel Nasty
Member
Awful movie made longer. I can't believe a great D.C. Movie just came out and didn't make more people realize how bad BvS is. You literally just saw a competently made movie, how can you not see how trash this is in comparison?
Forsaken82
Member
I enjoyed the Extended Edition more than the Theatrical for sure, but I also don't think it ended being a "pretty good" movie. I think it makes a serviceable movie slightly better. I can't understand how one could watch BvS Theatrical and think "This is fucking garbage" and then do a 180 after watching the Extended cut and think "That was pretty good!"
And also totally unnecessary. The whole premise of the movie is that Batman is already distrustful of, and even hostile toward, Superman. That's the point of the Metropolis/Zod prologue sequence. All the stuff with Lex just muddies the waters and creates a more convoluted reason for Batman to v. Superman.
SG-17 said:
It doesn't add anything. If you skipped that sequence entirely, it wouldn't change the plot or Batman's conflict with Superman one iota.
SomedayTheFire
Member
No its not. It's a fucking awful cut of an awful film. Adding 30 minutes of useless drivel won't make any movie better and it certainly did not make BvS better.
This. It's the only version of the movie I've ever seen, and my review is that the first hour is great, but the next two are beyond boring/terrible.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I still don't understand why the Parademons are there at all, is it to enforce Batman's fear of Supes going full evil? Did he became the new leader of Apokolips? Hell, does Batman even know who Darkseid or the Parademons are?
SolidChamp
Banned
clark: "all this time i've been living my life the way my father saw it. righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good...superman was never real. it was just the dream of a farmer from kansas."
lois: "that farmer's dream is all some people have. it's all that gives them hope. *touches S* - this means something."
clark: "it did on my world. my world doesn't exist anymore."
Lol I forgot about that bit of dialogue. Isolating it like that really does bring out the cynicism in Snyder's fucking version of Superman.
Still, for all of it's problems, the extended cut does add contextual and emotional beats that help improve upon the (rather messy) framework. It's not a horrible piece of shit like some people claim, but this is far from being a "great film". It's serviceable as a piece of DC cinematic canon and very watchable in this format.
The theatrical cut had me LOL'ing in the theatre, though.
Octavianus
Banned
I agree. I honestly don't understand what some people see in this version of Batman.
The worst comic book movie I've seen by far. I'd rate it lower than Thor 2 and Spiderman 3 even.
Batman v Superman was an absolute disaster that felt like three different superhero scripts duct taped together and them vomited onto the screen with the minimum amount of grace and style.
That being said I kinda understand why someone would prefer it to something like Wonder Woman or Doctor Strange. It certainly was ambitious, weird and nonformulaic and because of those qualities arguably more memorable than most superhero films.
That being said I kinda understand why someone would prefer it to something like Wonder Woman or Doctor Strange. It certainly was ambitious, weird and nonformulaic and because of those qualities arguably more memorable than most superhero films.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I say, cut the whole film BUT the Knightmare sequence, and then you got yourself a pretty good short film.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Superman in the Donner films sacrificed an entire town for Lois.
I don't get your logic.
Glass Rebel
Member
Everything that can be said, has been said about this movie. It was bad when it hit theatres and was turned into something just barely watchable with the Ultimate Edition. It's time to put a moratorium on BvS discussion. Bury it. It's dead.
Reptars Revenge
Member
I won't say this with complete certainty because there is probably some really obscure comic but this is without a doubt the worst crossover of Batman Superman ever. I am so glad wonder woman came out and gave me hope for the DC extended universe.
Yeah but did you see how baller Batman looked with that jacket?
Side topic but the ending of Superman 1 always confuses the fuck out of me because of what you just said. Does him saving the town still happen?
Batman being afraid of Superman because of a dream he had is not good motivation.