-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rian Johnson "I don’t really think in terms of universes or in terms of creating worlds or whatever. That’s not that interesting to me."
- Thread starter #Phonepunk#
- Start date
megamerican
Member
JJ made the worst Mission Impossible movie, and ran Star Trek into the ground, so clearly he was the perfect choice to run Star Wars into the ground. He has far more misses than hits so I'm genuinely confused why he was the Hollywood golden boy.
Doom85
Member
Phillip Seymour Hoffman (RIP) as the villain in 3 alone is better than anything in 2. Sure, 2 can occasionally be fun with how over-the-top it was but mostly that's just in the final act, the rest just drags on and not much interesting happens and the love interest is so bland they don't even bother acknowledging she existed at all (no seriously, when Ving Rhames mentions at one point in either 5 or 6 how many women Ethan has seriously loved, he says only two: his ex-wife and Ilsa Faust, he doesn't even acknowledge the girl from 2 even though he worked with Ethan as usual in that movie so he knew they were a thing). 2 can really just be skipped over without anything lost; just watch the over-the-top moments in the climax on Youtube or something. Face/Off was a much better John Woo movie (in terms of his American films) in fitting the crazy, over-the-top style with the story and characters (helps you've got Cage and Travolta) than MI 2 was.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
the thing is, even tho those two series are known to have ended in disaster, they were massive financial hits, and they were very RELEVANT. this is a key concern for large corporations, staying relevant, and KK had been tasked with making Star Wars relevant again a decade after the whole prequels debacle. LOST might have been utter nonsense, but it was virally popular, it was relevant. it had good metrics. these are things that appeal to money people, to producers, the kind of people who fund these films. this is why she picked Rian as well. they are both good at marketing properties in a way that generates buzz. both well known trendy directors who did some of the most popular prestige tv of all time. Star Wars is not a story, it is a property, a portfolio of assets to be leveraged. these two directors are professional, current, trendy, buzzworthy people, who have proven they can cause a stir.
what sucks is the idea to have only them write the things. had Rian or JJ actually have to make a movie written by a good writer then these things could have been great. already the task on hand, writing, planning, creating the characters and worlds and all of it, alongside the physical task of direction, while editing on set, etc. no wonder Rian did not have an interest in worldbuilding, it helped him save on budget, and his film came in early and under budget, which no doubt pleased the money men. IMO this is why he got his trilogy, his job performance made some executives and investors very happy. their bet had paid off, and like you do when that happens, you double down. they got greedy.
I see that it still persists that it was Abrams’ fault that Lost ended up the way it did. That show was handled by Cuse and Lindelof, Abrams only directed the pilot and co-wrote two episodes. His name might have been down as co-creator but that’s all he did...co-create it. And while the show did have plot holes you could drive a truck through it’s still a very entertaining show which was the thing to talk about when it was airing.
The first Trek is fun, I like it. Even the second one, which borrows to the point of plagiarism, is pretty fun. I don’t hate it. His stint on Star Wars was flawed however, The Force Awakens stalled at the starting gate and blame was rightfully laid at his feet. The thing is though...the film is fun, as is TROS. They aren’t great Star Wars films but the entertaining core is there. TLJ has none of that, not only is it a badly written film but it is one thing that every other Star Wars film hadn’t been...it was spiteful. It treated the characters was disrespect, the lore with disrespect and the fans themselves with disrespect. I don’t know what Johnson was thinking but if any of the stories of him actively wanting to make a bad film were true then I’d believe it. I’ve no doubt that he is a talented filmmaker but you could tell that he was the wrong person to make the film and had the wrong message to project. You could tell that he didn’t like Star Wars.
We need enthusiastic filmmakers like Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni taking the lead going forward, people who love the franchise and want it to be good. I’ve no doubt that JJ loves Star Wars but I think that the story he had in mind might have been the wrong one. In fact maybe we should be blaming Michael Arndt, he is the one that came up with the story and the idea of keeping Luke out of the plot until the end of the film. Luke’s absence hurt the film a lot.
The first Trek is fun, I like it. Even the second one, which borrows to the point of plagiarism, is pretty fun. I don’t hate it. His stint on Star Wars was flawed however, The Force Awakens stalled at the starting gate and blame was rightfully laid at his feet. The thing is though...the film is fun, as is TROS. They aren’t great Star Wars films but the entertaining core is there. TLJ has none of that, not only is it a badly written film but it is one thing that every other Star Wars film hadn’t been...it was spiteful. It treated the characters was disrespect, the lore with disrespect and the fans themselves with disrespect. I don’t know what Johnson was thinking but if any of the stories of him actively wanting to make a bad film were true then I’d believe it. I’ve no doubt that he is a talented filmmaker but you could tell that he was the wrong person to make the film and had the wrong message to project. You could tell that he didn’t like Star Wars.
We need enthusiastic filmmakers like Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni taking the lead going forward, people who love the franchise and want it to be good. I’ve no doubt that JJ loves Star Wars but I think that the story he had in mind might have been the wrong one. In fact maybe we should be blaming Michael Arndt, he is the one that came up with the story and the idea of keeping Luke out of the plot until the end of the film. Luke’s absence hurt the film a lot.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Star Wars is built on archetypes. maybe they were based on archetypes but these were new characters. they had names and jobs and art design and everything. they felt like they really fit in the world. so yes i give him a pass. he did create all these characters, did he not?
Rose is not an archetype. she is an annoying bipolar anime character thrown into the movie. Holdo is not an archetype, she is a plot device to make Poe/Rose do stupid things and get yelled at. ditto for DJ, a plot device who like a guardian angel rescues Finn/Rose over and over before betraying them (an act which means nothing because they are instantly saved by Holo randomly lightspeed ramming at that exact moment), then departing. none of these characters teach our heroes anything or transform them in any ways, despite Rian's heavy handed "theming".
the problem is that Rian doesn't think outside his alloted 2 hours. with Rey/Finn/Poe/etc. these were instant characters that drove the imagination. it made you want to see the next film. this is why people were so buzzed for years after TFA. nobody gave a shit about Rose, etc after TLJ. this is why nobody saw the follow up.
Last edited:
MetalAlien
Banned
Keegan was always the stronger of the two.
ROS looks bad becuase of TLJ. Rian gave JJ nothing to work with
It's a stupid quote that means nothing. Of course world building should be in service to character. We aren't watching documentaries.
That does not justify his movie having shit world building, and for that matter, a boring plot, and pretty dumb character motives. This is just Rian being a hack, and trying to dance out new excuses and bullshit. Just like when he made up this revisionist bullshit history that empire strikes back was hated at release.
You say he made a good star wars movie. So that's opinion and to me yours is shit because there hasn't been a good star wars movie since the original shit. So now we both established the other has a shit opinion, so let's move on.
Tommy wiseau directed the room, Craig Ross directed killjoy, and Tom Hooper directed cats. And they continued to make movies so just because you're allowed to do something doesn't mean you're any good at it.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Rian gave him Kylo Ren being the big bad on a silver platter and JJ brought back a guy that doesnt fuck
Oh, the big bad that did fuck all in both movies. The big bad that couldn't even face down Snoke face to face? I'm so scared.
Was that Rians master plan. For another Rey/
Kylo fight. Oh God I am so sad we missed that
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
You mean the big bad that outgrew his master not like the bitch vader in the last movie? The one that out smarted his master and mercd him, with a movie to spare for proper character development?Oh, the big bad that did fuck all in both movies. The big bad that couldn't even face down Snoke face to face? I'm so scared.
Was that Rians master plan. For another Rey/
Kylo fight. Oh God I am so sad we missed that
Kylo was set up to be the big bad esp with the way he was acting the last few scenes of the movie losing his mind, JJ fucked up alot more than Rian
You mean the exact same fight we got in TROS anyways on the death star? Lmfao
Last edited:
#Phonepunk#
Banned
uh Vader killed his master in ROTJ. all Rian did was have him do the same thing. Vader offered to co-rule the Galaxy with Luke, so Kylo does that too. Kylo just does whatever Vader did cos that's all both writers know how to do.
also, Kylo Ren didn't outgrow his master, he is back to being evil immediately after, he is still seeking power. Vader actually turned to the good, he gave that power up. Kylo turns back to what he was doing yesterday, keeps trying to rule everything. character growth? over the ST, he loses to Rey, gets yelled at by Snoke, kills him, then loses to Rey again. that's not growth. that's not a threatening villain.
Kylo Ren was losing his mind smashing things up from TFA. you remember that scene of him losing it on a control deck? this is Kylo Ren acting like an entitled dick isn't anything new, it is literally the baseline of his character. so no, him being mad it isn't character growth, and it doesn't set up him for anything he isn't already doing. he is always mad and upset.
feel like Rian tricked certain people into seeing things in his movie & the series that aren't actually there.
Last edited:
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Ya he did do it sooner, meaning they had a whole other movie to explore the mentality snd sanity of his character. And she he threw fits in TFA but if played right by JJ this could have been thee one thing that toppled him over and made him lose his mind and become a ruthless supreme leader. Him being mad isnt character depth, but a deeper look into his sanity and insanity, whilst also dealing with his past definitely is, but nope we have to revert back to some old wrinkly has been, not even a has been, a never was because dude had to clone himself because he couldnt smesh some pie on the side
JJ dropped the ball so hard on taking Kylo to the broken psyche man he should have become
Last edited: