• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Rian Johnson Still Pretending He Did Something New By Remixing ESB+ROTJ

#Phonepunk#

Banned
"I think the instant you start thinking in terms of how do you not step outside of the bounds of what the original movies did, you're not thinking the way the people who made the original movies did," Johnson shared on the Creative Processing with Joseph Gordon-Levitt podcast. "They were with every movie, they were pushing it forward, with every movie they were stepping outside those bounds and pushing the characters into new, emotionally honest, but surprising places. That's why those movies are great. That's why they're alive. If they had been looking at something that came before it and saying, 'Oh, we better not do this because that is outside of this or that,' it would've been different."


A couple of things here:

1) Rian Johnson pretending he did something different. I am tired of this, so very, very tired of it, and it is why I keep talking about TLJ even now. There is this myth going around that everyone who hated the film hated it because it was too different. Personally, I hated it because it was too similar, the whole island thing was incredibly boring and constantly reminded me of Dagobah. When we left the island, I thought, thank God, we can do something new. Immediately he went into the ROTJ throne room, with Rey ending up in cuffs just like Luke, with the whole red guards just like the Emperor, they even lifted dialog directly from the movie. Following that, we immediately cut to AT-ATs and the guy tasting Hoth as "salt". This jackass thinks he can get away with ripping off the OT by promoting these myths that he did something new and unexpected. Please, for the love of God, can we stop pretending he did all this vastly new stuff, when a solid hour and a half of the movie is repeating major chunks of 2/3rds of the OT?

2) "pushing the characters into new, emotionally honest, but surprising places." Luke, sure, fine, but what about the other characters? are new characters "pushed into new, surprising places?"

Rey
? she was a one note character crying bout her parents in TFA, same here. was i surprised she effortlessly saves the day? Emotionally honest, I mean she did the whole back and forth thing with Kylo in TFA, not really a drastic shift there. She excels at pilot the Millennium Falcon exactly the same as she excels at using the Force or "confronting the dark side" in that tree stump. She's a consumer there to take the ride in the Star Wars theme park, little has changed. She even watches her friends die just like the last movie. Not new.

Poe, people say he had this great arc, about listening to people, but the supposed conclusion of his grand arc is still him barking orders at other people, only now Leia has given him license to kill. he has shown he can just ignore orders and do whatever and the general is cool with it so he can do whatever. This will serve him well as he went from a guy leading the Resistance to a guy leading the Resistance. In the last film, he is the "best pilot of the Resistance" and in this one he is the same thing. Not new.

Finn, well, what a brave, new place he was taken to, once again having his every agency robbed, being ordered around by military fanatics, considered a possible traitor or thief, always seen with suspicion. Bravo, Rian, for showing this refuge of a fascist army that gambling is bad, and that keeping pet animals is evil. Really brave, emotionally honest storytelling there. No need to explore his youth as a child stolen from a distant planet, brainwashed by a fascist organization, his rejection of murder at the hands of the First Order, nor his near immediate resuming of murder of all his former friends. Last film he was dragged around by a girl, same here.

Kylo, who has turned into a one trick pony at this point, highly emotive, a less imposing Darth Vader with the mask off. He starts and ends at the same place, with the destruction of a key FO asset (to be ignored by the next film) chasing Rey and friends on the Falcon. For all his "complex" emoting, he is still just Space Hitler, with the screen showing him pause to look sad for 2 seconds before killing people, and taking this to be deep storytelling. Again, the mope act was done in the last film as well. Nothing new.

Rian failed on every level except selling his bullshit as brilliant.
 
Last edited:

pr0cs

Member
You know, I liked Looper but in all honesty Rian's hands on the star wars properties has been terrible. For some reason they seemed to think that shitting on 40 years of canon and insulting the fans that brought that property into popular culture consciousness was perfectly acceptable.
Johnson should stick to his own stories, he clearly doesn't know fuck all about what made star wars good.
 
Last edited:

Pidull

Member
Fucked series. It makes me sad to think about how bad TFA and the second one are (holy shit I can't even remember the name and I just read it in the OP). I never thought the prequels could look better than the Disney movies, especially considering how masterfully the MCU has been put together.

Second movie is... Revenge? Return? Is it The Last Jedi? Yeah, that's it. Shit that was a big brain fart caused by the indigestion that movie gave me.

I wish the characters had any development at all. Poe realizing that being the best means nothing if you make stupid decisions. Finn learning that dumb bitches need to get dumped. Rey... I mean you think someone that has had to scavenge their whole life would have major distrust issues.

What I hate most is that, just like with the shitty animated remakes, everyone will still see the last movie in the new trilogy.
 

pel1300

Member
Rian started blocking ppl who criticize TLJ long ago. He has been in an echo chamber of TLJ worshippers ever since. So he has no idea that the criticism of his movie has moved beyond superficial SJW bashing and more towards the core problem of the movie - the writing.

He has no defense against the writing and contradicted himself by saying:

-Finn's speeder wouldn't have made it into the Death Star Tech canon, he just gave up and Rose saved him. This defense was made up after criticism of the scene. It's bs. The movie establishes Finn as the authority on how that cannon works - and the rebels base their plan around Finn's knowledge as a former TFO soldier.

Unfortunately, this new excuse made after the fact just makes Finn look dumb. But if his suicide run was gonna work - it makes Rose look dumb. The movie established Finn as the authority on how the cannon works - so for Rose to be the one who was right and Finn wrong makes the whole scene doubly stupid.

You can't have it both ways Rian. Either way you spin it - Rose comes off being stupid or Finn comes off being stupid.

It's like the Holdo and Poe argument - either way one or both of them come off as complete idiots. Even if I accept the defense force's argument that Poe was a selfish, narcissistic asshole who cared about his reputation more than anything (stupid argument considering events of TFA) - then Holdo still comes off as an idiot who was smiling with glee while lambasting Poe about being responsible for the death of nearly their entire fleet. What psychopath would find enjoyment and be all smirking and smiling while talking about the death of their soldiers?

Holdo = sociopath confirmed
 
Last edited:

ZehDon

Member
He’s going to spend the rest of his professional life defending a movie that can’t be defended.

As for the originals - they didn’t copy what came before.... because there was nothing before them. Hence the term “original trilogy”. The rules are different when you’re making the eighth movie in the franchise, fucking with established lore, cannon, and characters. You don’t get to an eighth instalment by saying “fuck it, subvert expectations!”. But you do burn a franchise.
 

dan76

Member
I get what he means about the original trilogy pushing new things. Empire could have gone the route of Planet of the Apes or some B movie, with another evil ruler that they have to take down. Instead Empire turned into character film where everything that was started in Star Wars was developed and became much deeper in Empire.

Rain Johnson can fuck off if that's what he thinks he did with TLJ. Pointless side story, pointless purple haired character, naff writing - you all know, the bit where purple hair knows something but just won't say so other characters end up wasting time doing shit for no reason, Christ that's lazy writing. Ackbar dies off screen!

The list goes on. Honestly, I think the guy knows it deep down otherwise he wouldn't be defending it so often.
 

pel1300

Member
Disney SW started out with booming success: 2.068 billion WW with the first film.

Then a respectable 1 billion WW for a spin-off prequel.

Then a slightly under performing and front loaded 1.3 billion for TLJ (it was projected to make at least 1.5 billion, many were prediction near 2 billion).

Then 397 million WW in the biggest live action SW bomb ever with a net loss.

Total in the past 4 years: 4.7 billion WW

vs.

MCU in 2019 alone: over 5 billion dollars WW

Marvel 2018 alone: 4 billion WW

Marvel 2017: 2.6 billion WW

Anything prior is less than 2 billion. But very steep upward trend starting in the past few years.

PS - bring this up on ERA and you get this response: "No one will care about the MCU characters in 40 years!!!"
 
Last edited:

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
"pushing the characters into new, emotionally honest, but surprising places."
TLJ was one of the most ironically detached films I've ever seen, wtf is he talking about with this "emotionally honest" bullshit. The whole movie was filled with constantly mitigated risks, like "ah-ah-ah, I'll do this, but just so you know, it's kind of a joke ;)"
Like, Marvel does that all the time, but at least with Endgame they knew when their characters had to be genuine. Rian Johnson was afraid of failing to make an emotional impact, and capeshit wasn't.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Rain Johnson can fuck off if that's what he thinks he did with TLJ. Pointless side story, pointless purple haired character, naff writing - you all know, the bit where purple hair knows something but just won't say so other characters end up wasting time doing shit for no reason, Christ that's lazy writing. Ackbar dies off screen!
"didn't you hear? the only reason people like Ackbar is he's a meme! nobody ever actually liked him! if you say you did, you are just being disingenuous to attack the movie!" i've seen this very attack used to defend the movie. this to me is the worst result of all, when people go back and shit on earlier movies to defend this. it's also wilfully trying to rewrite history. people have loved Ackbar for nearly 40 years now. pretending this is a new thing is not going to happen.

indeed, the amount of storylines that occurred because a character didn't tell another character a thing is absurd. it's on the level of shitty sitcoms. it is not good story writing. the entire thing hinges on whether or not you buy the "subverting expectations" line enough to overlook the poor filmmaking and shameless ripoffs.

even Luke himself, probably the most "new" thing in the movie, is just doing the Yoda "seeked out Jedi master who doesn't want to fight and doesn't want to train the new person". even he is simply retracing his own steps from ESB. the sunken X-Wing straight out of ESB. the "dark cave" straight out of ESB. his grand death basically redoing Obi Wan's Vader fight from ANH. yeah, Rian, I've seen this all before, you putting quotes around everything doesn't make it new.
 

Paltheos

Member
I don't care as nearly as much as you guys. I went into this knowing it would suck. The only reason I even watched TLJ is as a hate-watch with my friends, and it delivered. We joke about it from time-to-time but that's it. We'd already made up our minds after TFA. TLJ just happens to be worse.
 

Nymphae

Banned
I really can't stand Hollywood types describing their process or what they feel about their work. This is straight up public masturbation. Those press junket things for movies sicken me, watching a trickle-down media whore ask some Hollywood narcissists absolutely banal questions about their latest piece of cultural propaganda.

I don't care as nearly as much as you guys. I went into this knowing it would suck. The only reason I even watched TLJ is as a hate-watch with my friends, and it delivered.

I'm finally at a place where I have completely accepted that this thing is destroyed and it is no longer for me. I have no hope that it will ever course correct and interest me again, and that's ok. I'm actually, genuinely, more excited to see how they can damage the brand further.
 
Last edited:

#Phonepunk#

Banned
I don't care as nearly as much as you guys. I went into this knowing it would suck. The only reason I even watched TLJ is as a hate-watch with my friends, and it delivered. We joke about it from time-to-time but that's it. We'd already made up our minds after TFA. TLJ just happens to be worse.
to be honest, i did not hate the movie when i saw it. i kept thinking "god this is stupid" every 5 minutes but i didn't hate it. at the end of the movie i walked out and said "That was the most cornball one since ROTJ". it was dumb and i never need to watch it again but it wasn't a waste of 2 hours. it was really only after i left the theater, and started getting confronted by defensive fans for not liking it enough, for having problems with the movie. pretty sure the first negative comment i made was responded to with a gif of Luke saying "Everything you just said is wrong" like great, now my former heros are smug bad faith fucking message board trolls.

this is really what has sunk the films for me. nobody was getting defensive about The Phantom Menace when that came out. if you made fun of Jar Jar, that was totally cool, in fact, many mainstream journalists were dogpiling on the films. if you thought Attack of the Clones was a stupid title, you were celebrated, nobody called you a misogynist. now, if you have any criticism, you are toxic, you are a manbaby. you are called this by people who cannot accept that others may not like the same space movie as them. these people are calling others manbabies! because they can't accept another adult having a differing opinion on a space movie! it's so insanely ironic.
 
Last edited:

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Remember that scene where that guy and that girl ride those CG alien horses on that gambling planet? Stunning filmmaking 👌
the one where they visit a planet with child slaves, then save the animals, and leave the slaves?

it only makes the ending even worse. what is that kid with the ring thinking? the Resistance will come back someday and ignore him again?

our "heroes"
 

The Snake

Member
I don't hate TLJ. I don't think it's very good but I don't hate it.

But something really has to be said about it-- this movie has been out for a long damn time and Rian Johnson still has to go on podcasts, Twitter, etc., making his case and defending it. Maybe it's time to accept that this is a sign that he kinda fucked up. Or maybe I'm just an asshole.
 

Keylime

Spoiler Tag Abuser
I feel like all the TLJ backlash wouldn't be nearly so bad if Rian just learned to leave it be.

Like if every director went on Twitter and interviews and forums and podcasts just constantly telling everyone how masterful what they did was... you can bet we'd be up in arms shooting that down, too.

You can't make a controversial movie in one of the biggest franchises in the world and expect to get out unscathed by the swathes of fans around the world. He'll never get the universal praise for what he did that he seems to want so desperately...and I can't tell what his motivation for doing it even is at this point.

Like the movie was fine. I liked it...and I get why it's upsetting to a ton of people and I don't even disagree with the criticism...but if you keep giving those people yet another reason to take out the torches and pitchforks they'll gladly take you up on the offer.

Johnson needs to pull a Luke Skywalker and just ghost the planet for a good year or two. Clear his head, get this behind him, and go back to making cool shit.
 

The Snake

Member
I feel like all the TLJ backlash wouldn't be nearly so bad if Rian just learned to leave it be.

Like if every director went on Twitter and interviews and forums and podcasts just constantly telling everyone how masterful what they did was... you can bet we'd be up in arms shooting that down, too.

You can't make a controversial movie in one of the biggest franchises in the world and expect to get out unscathed by the swathes of fans around the world. He'll never get the universal praise for what he did that he seems to want so desperately...and I can't tell what his motivation for doing it even is at this point.

Like the movie was fine. I liked it...and I get why it's upsetting to a ton of people and I don't even disagree with the criticism...but if you keep giving those people yet another reason to take out the torches and pitchforks they'll gladly take you up on the offer.

Johnson needs to pull a Luke Skywalker and just ghost the planet for a good year or two. Clear his head, get this behind him, and go back to making cool shit.

It kind of reminds me of when someone knows they did something bad so they pre-emptively defend themselves or periodically remind you that they didn't do it. "Crazy what happened with the cookies from the cookie jar...I would never have done that. Crazy." My mom, who stole my identity when I was younger, will to this day jump to her own defense "I didn't steal your identity, son!" when the subject is brought up, even without mentioning that she did it.

I think he kind of knows in the back of his mind that he did something bad and maybe he just can't accept it. Maybe he wants to convince himself. Tommy Wiseau telling people (and himself), oh, the Room? It's a black comedy! It was meant to be this way!

Like I said, I don't hate TLJ (I saw the damn thing three times, and took piss breaks during the Canto Bight scene on viewing #2 and 3), but it absolutely was not the right way to go and there's a very good reason people are still deriding--or defending it this long after it released.
 

It's Jeff

Banned
the one where they visit a planet with child slaves, then save the animals, and leave the slaves?

it only makes the ending even worse. what is that kid with the ring thinking? the Resistance will come back someday and ignore him again?

our "heroes"

I didn't even notice this. I would have responded ten minutes ago but I was belly laughing so hard that my dog hid under the couch. It's like firefighters running into a burning building and saving a cactus while people are jumping from the roof.

This is the same movie that opens with a your mama joke. It just might be intentional.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Remember that scene where that guy and that girl ride those CG alien horses on that gambling planet? Stunning filmmaking 👌

This was exactly the point I knew this movie wasn't going to course correct and decided yes, I could go to the bathroom, because I know it's going to be one of those mindless "crashing through shit for 3-4 minutes CG chase sequences with no feel of weight or physics or consequences which we see in literally every cartoon/fantasy/popcorn flick these days" scenes. I don't know why hollywood thinks every film needs one of these scenes. And sure enough, they were still crashing through shit for no goddamn reason by the time I came back.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Like if every director went on Twitter and interviews and forums and podcasts just constantly telling everyone how masterful what they did was... you can bet we'd be up in arms shooting that down, too.

You can't make a controversial movie in one of the biggest franchises in the world and expect to get out unscathed by the swathes of fans around the world. He'll never get the universal praise for what he did that he seems to want so desperately...and I can't tell what his motivation for doing it even is at this point.
him being a self promoter, i don't really mind, i mean, he is in the business for that, it's why he got the job. i think his social media skills are a large reason they picked him. SW has always had a "toxic fan" problem, due to it being a mega popular franchise. anything popular attracts toxicity, and SW is the most popular, it single handedly saved the film industry, and possibly created the summer blockbuster. Rian IMO was brought in to weaponize that toxicity, to sell to a single audience, and alienate another, inflaming viral message board ways and keeping the film "relevant" (this is good for business). it is interesting to see how the producers have changed approaches to addressing the fans in films:

SWOT: tbh im not sure there were that many toxic fans, in the og days, you might have gotten picked on for liking Star Wars, "That's little kid shit", or just nerdy things in general, in the 80s. the era of the og nerd, where liking a movie wasn't just a thing u did for fun, you also endured some kind of bullying for it. odd that even though nerds have gotten mainstream, the bullying of them has gotten mainstream as well. really, is there that big a difference from playground taunts to "professional journalists" being paid to complain about "manbabies"? Lucas only went all-in for fans with ROTJ, bringing back Tatooine, Death Star, Yoda, etc. and IMHO it suffers for the fan service.

SE: special edition was maybe the first flare up, tho tbh the whole thing was caught up in fan positivity, the early 90s saw a huge wave of fan positivity, the EU books and videogames keeping the brand live during lean times. fans literally are the reason for the prequels, they helped Lucas fun them, by buying toys, books, videogames, etc. not letting it get irrelevant. Lucas in turn rewarded the fans with the stories he had promised for 40 years. SE had many controversies, but overall, nobody I know was upset at getting to see those films again on the big screen. stuff like the cut Jabba scene was like listening to a never before heard Beatles outtake.

PT: prequels were a doozy. tho at the time i don't recall it being that bad. the mainstream was still pre-internet. there will always be complaints, i recall hating Ewoks being a thing when ROTJ came out, but the "raped my childhood" stuff was embarassing and mainstream, South Park doing a pathetic episode where Indiana Jones is fucked by Lucas or something, i don't remember exactly. anyways, the point is the media was full invested in dogging on prequels, tho a lot of the fans didn't mind them, and found them enjoyable. i saw AOTC stoned in a dollar theater on vacation with friends and it was the most fun, insane time ever. now, i've watched all the RLM videos, and I love them, and appreciate their takes, but at the same time I think it fueled a lot of hate and a lot of historical revisionism. tbh I don't blame them, they are just dudes talking about movies they are really into. i can watch those, admit the prequels are terrible in many ways, and still love the hell out of them. still, you saw the cracks in the fandom forming...

ST: this takes us to Rian Johnson, who I believe decided to take a Confront The Trolls approach instead of ignoring them. he knew about the Lucas and Jar Jar and Anakin death threats, but he was really good at just trolling back, not letting any of it get to him. maybe this has to do with the bubble he is creating by always going on about how brilliant he is, if you spend all day talking bs you will believe it yourself. however i think there are things he put in the movie, GIF-able imagery, lines of dialog, that were meant to go viral. I think TLJ was written with it's reception on social media in mind. there is a lot of intentional trolling, things like Ackbar being killed offscreen, and the guy tasting the Hoth "salt" and Luke's drive by posts, etc.

Rian has claimed to want to make a movie where half the people hate it and the other half love it. why would a giant company want this with their precious IP? simple: to generate user content, to keep people talking about the property, to get free advertising. to generate clickbait. to get people emotionally invested in defending the product (by promoting it), etc. having Luke say "Every word you just said is wrong" is a pre made meme, ready for anyone who needs to defend the movie, and is used every day as a mic-dropping shutdown of the conversation. the salt line is another obvious one. or Yoda's "Failure is the best teacher" (which can be used to justify literally anything tbh). it is like JJ's "That's not how the force works". the meme and viral message board wars were calculated when going into the last movie, no doubt. he deserves at least a large part of the blame for all of this. had his movie tried to please the audience, rather than surprise it, the reaction would have been more positive, like TFA's.
 
Last edited:

Shouta

Member
This guy can't take criticism at all. I really enjoy TLJ but it's definitely flawed in a bunch of areas.
 

Airola

Member
Once you start believing that you created the best thing in the world and take no criticism you fail as an artist. I hate this guy

Honestly though that kinda makes an artist more of an artist. Best artists don't care what others think but create what they think they should create and will stand by with what they have created. Starting to apologize and telling a thing you did was a mistake after first thinking it's great is weakness in my opinion.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I feel like all the TLJ backlash wouldn't be nearly so bad if Rian just learned to leave it be.

Like if every director went on Twitter and interviews and forums and podcasts just constantly telling everyone how masterful what they did was... you can bet we'd be up in arms shooting that down, too.

You can't make a controversial movie in one of the biggest franchises in the world and expect to get out unscathed by the swathes of fans around the world. He'll never get the universal praise for what he did that he seems to want so desperately...and I can't tell what his motivation for doing it even is at this point.

Like the movie was fine. I liked it...and I get why it's upsetting to a ton of people and I don't even disagree with the criticism...but if you keep giving those people yet another reason to take out the torches and pitchforks they'll gladly take you up on the offer.

Johnson needs to pull a Luke Skywalker and just ghost the planet for a good year or two. Clear his head, get this behind him, and go back to making cool shit.

He could not handle the BS he asked for.

 

plushyp

Member
Apparently they're still handing him his own trilogy.
 
Do you remember in...

Star Wars: A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith and
The Force Awakens

All of the times they had to stop for gas because fuel was so fucking important in the star wars universe where princess fuck you could breathe in space and not blow up from depressurization?

Fuck you Rian Johnson, fucking jerk off.
 
Honestly though that kinda makes an artist more of an artist. Best artists don't care what others think but create what they think they should create and will stand by with what they have created. Starting to apologize and telling a thing you did was a mistake after first thinking it's great is weakness in my opinion.
I’m not saying don’t believe in your vision what I’m saying is after the fact you are too arrogant to take any criticism. If you were learning anybart form and never took any criticism on your work how are you possibly going to get better at your art? It’s not weakness it’s humility.
 
Last edited:

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Honestly though that kinda makes an artist more of an artist. Best artists don't care what others think but create what they think they should create and will stand by with what they have created. Starting to apologize and telling a thing you did was a mistake after first thinking it's great is weakness in my opinion.
indeed and i have to respect him for that at least. he doesn't appear to be blaming anyone, he is owning all of this. thing is, I just don't think he's a good fit for the series. the only other thing I saw him do was the "Fly" episode of Breaking Bad, which was really funny, this weird bottle episode that took place in one room the entire show, and it was very clever, yet absolutely nothing happened. none of the story moved forward, they didn't even leave the room.

this is a cool video series i just discovered. i don't agree with everything but it's well done. its basically what if Mr. Plinkett did his PT-style in-depth coverage of TLJ. really interesting stuff, he uses a lot of clips from Spaceballs (it is funny how much of the modern films match the plot of Spaceballs). so far i've only seen 1 hour but there was really good stuff where he showed General Leia vs. Leia in ESB, where she is miles away a better character.

 
Last edited:

Catphish

Gold Member
the one where they visit a planet with child slaves, then save the animals, and leave the slaves?

it only makes the ending even worse. what is that kid with the ring thinking? the Resistance will come back someday and ignore him again?

our "heroes"
That's a good fucking point! 😄👍
 
Do you remember in...

Star Wars: A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith and
The Force Awakens

All of the times they had to stop for gas because fuel was so fucking important in the star wars universe where princess fuck you could breathe in space and not blow up from depressurization?

Fuck you Rian Johnson, fucking jerk off.

Her eyes would have frozen and supposedly holding your breath in space would cause your lungs to burst. As wacky as Star Wars was/is they used to follow basic principles in order to make things look somewhat practical.
 

pel1300

Member
"didn't you hear? the only reason people like Ackbar is he's a meme! nobody ever actually liked him! if you say you did, you are just being disingenuous to attack the movie!" i've seen this very attack used to defend the movie. this to me is the worst result of all, when people go back and shit on earlier movies to defend this. it's also wilfully trying to rewrite history. people have loved Ackbar for nearly 40 years now. pretending this is a new thing is not going to happen.
They must have slept through ROTJ.

He had more screen time than Mon Mothma.
 

Doom85

Member
I feel like all the TLJ backlash wouldn't be nearly so bad if Rian just learned to leave it be.

I personally doubt it. The backlash against the prequels got so severe and unnecessarily personal that Jar Jar Binks' actor suffered from suicidal depression for about a year, and Mark Hammil had to pretty much tell certain "fans" to leave Jake Lloyd the fuck alone.

To me, history has shown if a Star Wars movie comes out that enough people really dislike, they'll be fuming about it even if the director was never defensive about it as to my knowledge Lucas never said much of the sort regarding the prequels or at least fans didn't mention it as much, and they'll probably move on only when the next trilogy comes along (and if history repeats itself, some of them will suddenly change their tune about the previous trilogy they hated so much....)
 
The story, script and new characters were utter shite. The filming of the Hoth battle rip off and Ren tearing things up were probably the best bits.

Not sure that was all the Director’s fault - I’d probably blame the studio.
 

ZehDon

Member
The story, script and new characters were utter shite. The filming of the Hoth battle rip off and Ren tearing things up were probably the best bits.

Not sure that was all the Director’s fault - I’d probably blame the studio.
Slight correction: writer AND director. TLJ is the Rian Johnson show from start to finish - general sentiment is that Disney let him do whatever the fuck he wanted.
 
This is up there with hell freezing over and flying pigs for things that'll never happen. He has cost the company more money than you can imagine.

This is new to me:

I'm thinking after absorbing some loss from the Fox merger (looking at you Dark Phoenix) and the initial payment for the huge portfolio of IP, they are considering getting back on track, so that's hopeful if true. That would mean finally taking fans seriously when planning these films out.
 
Last edited:
TLJ is fine. Its an okay movie that did some interesting thing with a formulaic and boring franchise that had gone stale a long time ago.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
This is up there with hell freezing over and flying pigs for things that'll never happen. He has cost the company more money than you can imagine.
i do kinda feel like they set up Rey and Finn and Poe and this whole new world and were ready for annual Star Wars movies, then TLJ drops, now not only all anthology movies are cancelled, they are ending the current series with the next film. was this always the plan? they seemed pretty gun ho with rolling out sequels and spin off. now "It's all ending". i think in a way Rian basically cut them off at their knees. now they have to go with "ah we meant for these to be the END of the saga, always, trust us!" because the guy fucked it up trying to be smart.

his "new trilogy" i really don't understand the appeal of it. are the characters going to all be fucking idiots like this movie? are we going to have new characters more like Rose? stupid plots where the heroes get captured and rescued over and over? yall think he's going to return to the "untrustable people have stutters" stereotype again? that was real fun, I thought we were past using mentally illness to Other people, but I guess not.
 
Last edited:

MilkyJoe

Member
i do kinda feel like they set up Rey and Finn and Poe and this whole new world and were ready for annual Star Wars movies, then TLJ drops, now not only all anthology movies are cancelled, they are ending the current series with the next film. was this always the plan? they seemed pretty gun ho with rolling out sequels and spin off. now "It's all ending". i think in a way Rian basically cut them off at their knees. now they have to go with "ah we meant for these to be the END of the saga, always, trust us!" because the guy fucked it up trying to be smart.

his "new trilogy" i really don't understand the appeal of it. are the characters going to all be fucking idiots like this movie? are we going to have new characters more like Rose? stupid plots where the heroes get captured and rescued over and over? yall think he's going to return to the "untrustable people have stutters" stereotype again? that was real fun, I thought we were past using mentally illness to Other people, but I guess not.

That's why it's not happening. The fans hate him, so they would boycott on principle, repeat viewings from TLJ were non existent compared to TFA, to the tune of 800 million, TLJ Blu ray sales are 40% of TFA, Solo lost between 80- 150 million, they cancelled Boba Fett and Kenobi movies off the back of that. Toy and Merchandise sales are flat. Stores have abandoned Star Wars products, Galaxy's edge being ST only has tanked with fans (though that is Iger's fault entirely) 2 parks at 1 billion each... All off the back of TLJ. We are in the billions here. Rian is never getting a Star Wars call again.
 
Top Bottom