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Riftbreaker dev : Next-Gen Features Have to Be Fitted to XSS Memory; It Would Have Been Much Easier with XSX Only

Md Ray

Member
Are we currently in "next gen" time period?
We're in the cross-gen time period with games still being made for PS4/XB1, and we're already seeing sacrifices being made in terms of graphical effects/RT (when resolution should have been the only differential) for the weakest next-gen system. What do you think will happen when devs finally move to exclusively developing for next-gen systems only, leaving behind PS4/XB1?
So when exactly does next gen start?
Late 2021, early 2022 should be beginning of full-fledged next-gen games.
And how so you plan to convince all pc developers to leave behind 40% of thier potential audience?
Just like it didn't stop devs back in 2013-14 from leaving behind PC users with 1-2GB video cards when 8GB consoles came out.

Just admit you were wrong
Just admit you're wrong and devs are right when they say the Series S has a huge RAM capacity/speed limitation.
If you truly believe the series s is weaker than minimum pc spec
It is the weakest, the devs say so. A minimum gaming PC will have at least 8GB system RAM + 4-6GB VRAM, that's already 50-75% more RAM available to games than what the Series S has to offer. That's what the devs are complaining about.

Who do you think I'll believe? Some random gaffer who has zero knowledge about games development/hardware or the actual reputed developers of games industry from top studios?
 

Md Ray

Member
So Ubisoft worked some magic when they got raytracing on Watchdogs? Remember the XSS does not possess the memory to handle raytracing according to you and against reality. Pretty hard to argue the XSS can't do something you know it can.
Ubi's engine must be less taxing on the memory overall. Also, no, not according to me. That is according to a AAA game engine programmer and his claim is now supported by the omission of RT from the Medium as well as from Control and one of them explicitly mentioned "hardware limitation" as the reason.

Hitman 3 has gimped texture quality (which impacts mem), shadow and resolution. What do you have to say about that? Shouldn't resolution be the only difference between X and S then?
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
It happens a lot when the device has limitations.
4TF's and 10GB's of ram IS a technical limitation.
XSX runs the game at 120 fps nicely.
So you're speaking on general instead of pinpointing specific reasons but "4TF"?

In this case the "4TF" comes from the GPU which is what I was talking about. This game was designed for 1.3-1.8 TFLOPS of more inneficient GPU architecture.

If PS5 and XSX can run it at 120 fps, unless there's another bottleneck apart from CPU, XSS will too. This is definitely a matter of graphical features then and devs just didn't want to reduce graphics that much for such a tiny gain in the market.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
We're in the cross-gen time period with games still being made for PS4/XB1, and we're already seeing sacrifices being made in terms of graphical effects/RT (when resolution should have been the only differential) for the weakest next-gen system. What do you think will happen when devs finally move to exclusively developing for next-gen systems only, leaving behind PS4/XB1?

Late 2021, early 2022 should be beginning of full-fledged next-gen games.

Just like it didn't stop devs back in 2013-14 from leaving behind PC users with 1-2GB video cards when 8GB consoles came out.


Just admit you're wrong and devs are right when they say the Series S has a huge RAM capacity/speed limitation.

It is the weakest, the devs say so. A minimum gaming PC will have at least 8GB system RAM + 4-6GB VRAM, that's already 50-75% more RAM available to games than what the Series S has to offer. That's what the devs are complaining about.

Who do you think I'll believe? Some random gaffer who has zero knowledge about games development/hardware or the actual reputed developers of games industry from top studios?
Its nice that you get to decide when next gen actually starts based on the framing of your arguement, talk about moving the goalposts......

You also pick and choose what developers say, you completely ignore the ones that say they have no issue at all developing for series s. You also ignore the fact that they will also in many cases be making xbox one and ps4 versions of these games. (yes for years to come) So you have picked a position, decided you are right, and found the information that supports your ideas instead of considering all information.

Series S does not have a huge ram/capacity speed limitation, it will still be easier to program for for years to come vs the low end of pc gaming, you can stop spewing this nonsense any time.
 

Md Ray

Member
Series S does not have a huge ram/capacity speed limitation, it will still be easier to program for for years to come vs the low end of pc gaming, you can stop spewing this nonsense any time.
It does. Series S GPU, RAM capacity/speed is already comparable to low-end "min" PC spec. It will be a severely limited system to develop for within 2 years as the min spec on the PC side goes up, remember PC hardware doesn't remain stagnant like consoles. If you think Series S has some kind of an infinite power (lmao) then you must be living in a la-la land, sorry.
 
Ubi's engine must be less taxing on the memory overall. Also, no, not according to me. That is according to a AAA game engine programmer and his claim is now supported by the omission of RT from the Medium as well as from Control and one of them explicitly mentioned "hardware limitation" as the reason.

Hitman 3 has gimped texture quality (which impacts mem), shadow and resolution. What do you have to say about that? Shouldn't resolution be the only difference between X and S then?
We can go round and round on this all day. Does XSS have raytracing in Watchdogs or not? If it does the XSS is capable of raytracing and whether its used or not is up to the developers. If a developer CHOOSES to not use a feature doesn't mean the system is incapable of running it. Ubisoft is also a AAA developer and they made it work so it really comes down to talent and desire.

Hitman 3 having lower graphical settings on the XSS is the entire point. The XSS will run current gen games and lower graphical settings. What about that do you not understand? And who said the ONLY difference would be resolution? There are more to graphical options than just resolution. Have you ever made graphical changes on a PC? Under graphics there are tons of options. The XSS DOES have the same feature set though. Just accept that the XSS is a cheaper gaming option for those who want it. It won't match XSX or PS5 in graphics and no one ever said it would. It will always beat the PS5 and XSX in price though and that is the point.
 

dcmk7

Banned
The only sacrifice was supposed to be the resolution. That's how it was sold and marketed.

Turns out thats not true at all.. there are other features being cut.

And just because a feature is in one game doesn't mean the console can do it for every game.. who seriously believes this? Hell, the PS3 can do real time raytracing, with nothing else going on in the scene, it means nothing without context.

We are getting more and more comments from Dev's about the XSS & more games with features missing besides resolution. Let's see how it pans out, I suspect more Xbox defenders being triggered and lots more developers being labelled as lazy.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
It does. Series S GPU, RAM capacity/speed is already comparable to low-end "min" PC spec. It will be a severely limited system to develop for within 2 years as the min spec on the PC side goes up, remember PC hardware doesn't remain stagnant like consoles. If you think Series S has some kind of an infinite power (lmao) then you must be living in a la-la land, sorry.

Hardly, its more comparable to somewhwre between a 1060 and a 2060 than the min pc specs currently, so more mid range than low end. Just look at the most used graphics cards on steam - the top used cards are 1050 and 1060's and represent a huge chunk of the market today. These don't have any modern gpu features like rdna 2.0 or ray tracing. They don't include faster ram, or an ssd. Those same people are also using slower, older cpu's.

We might see the bottom of the pc spec at series s level by the time this generation is over, but definately not now. And as we just went over, based on current games minimum spec, its definately not equal to a minimum spec pc right now, I have no idea why you would say that again. (So basically you are saying a pc with a gtx 980 with 3gb of ram and 8gb system ram is equal to series s?) If so you clearly don't understand the hardware.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
So you're speaking on general instead of pinpointing specific reasons but "4TF"?

In this case the "4TF" comes from the GPU which is what I was talking about. This game was designed for 1.3-1.8 TFLOPS of more inneficient GPU architecture.

If PS5 and XSX can run it at 120 fps, unless there's another bottleneck apart from CPU, XSS will too. This is definitely a matter of graphical features then and devs just didn't want to reduce graphics that much for such a tiny gain in the market.
Lower resolutions are more CPU dependent.
The XSX and PS5 both run the game at a higher resolution AND a higher FPS.
XSS can't do either but has the CPU.... 4TF's is the reason.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Lower resolutions are more CPU dependent.
The XSX and PS5 both run the game at a higher resolution AND a higher FPS.
XSS can't do either but has the CPU.... 4TF's is the reason.

Only if devs don't cap framerate to 30, 60, 120 or whatever, which is rarely the case on consoles.

BTW, these devs are talking about the RAM, which is shared between CPU/GPU, there could be an argument regarding that fact and yet many detractors of the SS haven't said it yet.

Edit: Also WTF, the 4TFLOPs are for the GPU, the CPU is exactly the same than PS5/XSX. What are you talking about.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
See this everyone, not gonna let this pass so I gotta duplicate it LMAO.

BTW, these devs are talking about the RAM, which is shared between CPU/GPU, there could be an argument regarding that fact and yet many detractors of the SS haven't said it yet.
What? You got nothing?
The ram is another issue.
I run 4K/60+ fps with 11 GB/s(1080ti) on the PC 🤭

The devs were talking ram but Destiny 2 was shown as another example of XSS not being up to par.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
What? You got nothing?
The ram is another issue.
I run 4K/60+ fps with 11 GB/s(1080ti) on the PC 🤭

The devs were talking ram but Destiny 2 was shown as another example of XSS not being up to par.
No, I just thought I missinterpreted something, but I editted and in the edit comment I realized I didn't missinterpret it lol, you really said CPU had 4TF.

I'll leave it here, if anything has to be said for real, it's gonna be when actual current gen games come out, not with cross-gen games, since the later don't use the console features at all, just those inherited from GCN.

If 120 fps not being present on Destiny 2 is anything for you, remember those other games at 120 fps you're ignoring.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
No, I just thought I missinterpreted something, but I editted and in the edit comment I realized I didn't missinterpret it lol, you really said CPU had 4TF.

I'll leave it here, if anything has to be said for real, it's gonna be when actual current gen games come out, not with cross-gen games, since the later don't use the console features at all, just those inherited from GCN.

If 120 fps not being present on Destiny 2 is anything for you, remember those other games at 120 fps you're ignoring.
No I didn't. I am saying the CPU isn't the blame it's the paltry 4TF's.
Who cares about other games running 120 fps?

He said......

Sure man. Outside of Sony 1st party what games will PS5 have that WON'T be on the XSS? Outside of graphics there is nothing the XSS can't do that the PS5 can.

Which has been proven wrong.
 

wachie

Member
The size of the memory that is available in the XSS is the actual determining point for the entire console generation as gameplay features have to be fitted to the lowest spec.

What we were told back when Series S was announced and what is being said now. Oh Microsoft ....
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
No I didn't. I am saying the CPU isn't the blame it's the paltry 4TF's.
Who cares about other games running 120 fps?

He said......



Which has been proven wrong.
And I and a lot of other people including devs (and including the devs quoted in the OP) are saying that, in that case, as it's a GPU bottleneck, then all they have to do is to lower graphic complexity (resolution, etc).

See? It's not that difficult.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
And I and a lot of other people including devs (and including the devs quoted in the OP) are saying that, in that case, as it's a GPU bottleneck, then all they have to do is to lower graphic complexity (resolution, etc).

See? It's not that difficult.
If that was the truth Destiny 2 WITH IT'S ALREADY MUCH LOWER RESOLUTION/DETAILS would be 120fps.
Devs chose to make the best of the weaker spec and 120 wasn't achievable even with a lower resolution and good CPU.
*cough* 4TF's
 
The only sacrifice was supposed to be the resolution. That's how it was sold and marketed.

Turns out thats not true at all.. there are other features being cut.

And just because a feature is in one game doesn't mean the console can do it for every game.. who seriously believes this? Hell, the PS3 can do real time raytracing, with nothing else going on in the scene, it means nothing without context.

We are getting more and more comments from Dev's about the XSS & more games with features missing besides resolution. Let's see how it pans out, I suspect more Xbox defenders being triggered and lots more developers being labelled as lazy.
Says who? Show me a press release or something that the ONLY compromise on the XSS was resolution. The XSS has all the same features and functions as the XSX. I do like your raytracing PS3 example though. I can point to a real actual XSS game that has raytracing can you do the same with a PS3 game? There are also comments from devs saying that the XSS isn't an issue where do they fit in your narrative? Can you point to any games that were missing features BECAUSE of the XSS or only XSS games that have reduced graphical features? The XSS was never intended to run games at maximum graphical fidelity. Devs can drop any graphical option they need to get it working. It terms of design they can create games knowing that the XSS like the XSX has an SSD, the same CPU, and the same features so they can be just as creative.

What are you guys even complaining about? That the XSS is 'holding back' next gen or that the XSS won't run games as well as other consoles. There is no evidence that the XSS is holding anything back. It has all the next gen features of all the next gen consoles. All that talk of Xbox fans being triggered by the XSS would make sense if it was actually Xbox fans complaining. The people I've seen who actually bought the XSS like it. It is a reasonable price, it is small, light, and compact. You cannot buy a higher performing device for less money. The people complaining the loudest don't have the console at all and if they only own the PS5 they are affected the LEAST. None of the Sony 1st party titles will hit the XSS so why would you even care? If the XSS struggles then it struggles there is no indication that other consoles will be hurt but this. Control is 1440 on PS5 and XSX do you seriously believe this is the XSS's fault? Games like Doom 2016 run on the Switch was it held back by the Switch's existence?

If that was the truth Destiny 2 WITH IT'S ALREADY MUCH LOWER RESOLUTION/DETAILS would be 120fps.
Devs chose to make the best of the weaker spec and 120 wasn't achievable even with a lower resolution and good CPU.
*cough* 4TF's
Yet Gears 5 a NEWER game was able to keep 120 fps mode. Bungie just made the choice to not bother. It has nothing to do with whether the XSS could run the game at that framerate or not.
 
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Mr.ODST

Member
XSS isnt holding anything back, I have one and enjoyed every one of my Series X versions with just a low resolution and minus raytracing.

Fact I can put this console in my bag and get all next gen features when working away is perfect.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Says who? Show me a press release or something that the ONLY compromise on the XSS was resolution. The XSS has all the same features and functions as the XSX. I do like your raytracing PS3 example though. I can point to a real actual XSS game that has raytracing can you do the same with a PS3 game? There are also comments from devs saying that the XSS isn't an issue where do they fit in your narrative? Can you point to any games that were missing features BECAUSE of the XSS or only XSS games that have reduced graphical features? The XSS was never intended to run games at maximum graphical fidelity. Devs can drop any graphical option they need to get it working. It terms of design they can create games knowing that the XSS like the XSX has an SSD, the same CPU, and the same features so they can be just as creative.

What are you guys even complaining about? That the XSS is 'holding back' next gen or that the XSS won't run games as well as other consoles. There is no evidence that the XSS is holding anything back. It has all the next gen features of all the next gen consoles. All that talk of Xbox fans being triggered by the XSS would make sense if it was actually Xbox fans complaining. The people I've seen who actually bought the XSS like it. It is a reasonable price, it is small, light, and compact. You cannot buy a higher performing device for less money. The people complaining the loudest don't have the console at all and if they only own the PS5 they are affected the LEAST. None of the Sony 1st party titles will hit the XSS so why would you even care? If the XSS struggles then it struggles there is no indication that other consoles will be hurt but this. Control is 1440 on PS5 and XSX do you seriously believe this is the XSS's fault? Games like Doom 2016 run on the Switch was it held back by the Switch's existence?


Yet Gears 5 a NEWER game was able to keep 120 fps mode. Bungie just made the choice to not bother. It has nothing to do with whether the XSS could run the game at that framerate or not.
Gears 5 as a example is irrelevant to what you originally been quoted on.
You are wrong and keep trying to spin it away instead of admitting it.
 

dcmk7

Banned
What are you guys even complaining about? That the XSS is 'holding back' next gen or that the XSS won't run games as well as other consoles. There is no evidence that the XSS is holding anything back

Except developers having to alter their game development process.

But they are all lazy and liars right?

Can you point to any games that were missing features BECAUSE of the XSS or only XSS games that have reduced graphical features?

Destiny 2. Missing 120 FPS. 120 FPS is a next gen feature.

So early in the next generation and can't do that with Destiny 2 is a bad sign.

Glad I've got my XSX to play Halo Infinite.
 

Lysandros

Member
Lower resolutions are more CPU dependent.
The XSX and PS5 both run the game at a higher resolution AND a higher FPS.
XSS can't do either but has the CPU.... 4TF's is the reason.
Yes game engines tend to be more CPU dependent in lower resolutions that XSS operates. I think to compensate that XSS needed to have slightly higher clocked CPU instead of lower.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Except developers having to alter their game development process.

But they are all lazy and liars right?



Destiny 2. Missing 120 FPS. 120 FPS is a next gen feature.

So early in the next generation and can't do that with Destiny 2 is a bad sign.

Glad I've got my XSX to play Halo Infinite.
XSX is a current gen beast.
 

Md Ray

Member
Yes game engines tend to be more CPU dependent in lower resolutions that XSS operates. I think to compensate that XSS needed to have slightly higher clocked CPU instead of lower.
Actually, you're CPU bound when you have to output a ton of frames per second (let's say for instance 140+fps), which happens when you reduce the resolution (let's say 720p for the sake of argument). Now if you're targeting/capping the frame-rate to 60fps at that reduced resolution (720p), then it puts the same burden on the CPU as running that game at 4K, @ 60fps. In other words, you actually tend to be more CPU dependent at higher frame-rates.

Ya feel me?

CPU isn't the problem for XSS. Destiny 2 could perhaps run at 120fps on XSS too just like the bigger consoles (XSX/PS5), the CPU usage on XSS could also be largely identical to XSX/PS5's CPUs when running at 120fps. The reason this mode didn't make the cut is likely due to the reduction it required to the resolution to hit 120fps is probably huge owing to its paltry 224 GB/s | 4TF GPU. Didn't Dirt 5 ran at something like 570p on Series S at 120Hz mode?! This is why...
 
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Except developers having to alter their game development process.

But they are all lazy and liars right?



Destiny 2. Missing 120 FPS. 120 FPS is a next gen feature.

So early in the next generation and can't do that with Destiny 2 is a bad sign.

Glad I've got my XSX to play Halo Infinite.
The next gen feature for Destiny 2 was 60 fps not 120 dude. You might not know this but it was 30 fps on last gen consoles even the X1X. The 120 fps was added as an extra vanity mode. A vanity mode that is useless to a low end machine made for budget minded gamers.

You are the only one saying devs are lazy. I am saying that are picking and choosing what features they will use with the XSS keeping in mind its audience and its graphical limitations. The XSS was never intended to run games at the same fidelity as the PS5 and XSX. Don't know why you can't understand that.

Gears 5 as a example is irrelevant to what you originally been quoted on.
You are wrong and keep trying to spin it away instead of admitting it.
Yeah Gears 5 doesn't count because it runs contrary to your argument that the XSS can't run games in 120 fps. I'm certain Dirt 5 doesn't count either right? But sure I'll admit you're right and ignore every case that runs contrary to your point. Nah...

XSS isnt holding anything back, I have one and enjoyed every one of my Series X versions with just a low resolution and minus raytracing.

Fact I can put this console in my bag and get all next gen features when working away is perfect.
There are lots of gamers like you who just wanted a cheaper, smaller box they can travel with or put in a spare bedroom. The XSS has the price and portability other consoles lack. The most important aspects CPU, SSD, and all of the new current gen features are still intact. It will certainly take a hit in the graphics department and of course that is what was said all along.
 
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