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Rise of the Tomb Raider: Preview and Technical Analysis (NX Gamer)

Shai-Tan

Shai-Tan

Banned
pixelation said:
Agreed, saying it looks like a PS2 game is absurd... but i'll be damned if i wasn't reminded of the SSX games when i saw that trail.

Edit: I'm talking specifically about the .gif you quoted.
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I was watching the NX Gamer retrospectives on Metal Gear Solid 2 and I noticed rain that was more impressive than most recent games. It made me sad because I like weather and a lot of games have rain that looks like it's coming from a rain machine (e.g. Dragon Age Inquisition)
 
freefornow

freefornow

Gold Member
Isnt this commentor a moderator here, or is someone taking the piss???
WSLWijk.jpg
[/IMG]
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Shai-Tan said:
I was watching the NX Gamer retrospectives on Metal Gear Solid 2 and I noticed rain that was more impressive than most recent games. It made me sad because I like weather and a lot of games have rain that looks like it's coming from a rain machine (e.g. Dragon Age Inquisition)
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I've been saying that for years. MGS2 is still an artistic triumph. The rain effects remain truly remarkable even today.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Tumeke NZ said:
Ok so he counted pixels wrong and got 900p from a 1080p picture... I thought you had to be blind to not see the difference??
Oh well game looks great regardless and is day 1 for me.
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Not sure he counted them, he says it was an assumption from dev interviews.

One would've thought without counting he could tell but I reckon most can't or need side by side. To me upscaled and native imagery is obvious even in this compressed E3 video but I've been doing video and image work since the late 1980s.

Doing resolution from compressed video is tricky though. Best to have the game playing locally on your screen or have PNG captures so I'll give him that. lesson learned I guess.

Hope he carries on with his frame rate tests and stuff though. It take s a lot of effort playing these games, acquiring copies and editing a video with narration. FC4 on Xbox also has huge drops in frames which he correctly highlighted. It's good info for buyers which gets missed due to inadequate testing by others.
 
L

leeh

Member
You know what, the fact that no-one on hear questioned it being 900p and it's what this whole thread is about on the first few pages is shaming. It really is.
 
Black_Stride

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Collingwood said:
But I was under the impression that why DF is who they are is because they have proven details/numbers/stats what have you. Generally what they have can't really be "debated" given there is concrete data. If NX Gamer is basically doing it by eye, then technically any of us could do what he does. If we cared enough to observe in the detail he does.

I only first heard of him on GAF after one of the DF Face Off threads came to the conclusion that a multiplay had a more stable framerate than a PS4 version. Can't even remember which one it was. Unity? Not 100% sure, but as a result, I suddenly saw posts popping up about this guy. Then watched his Uncharted vid and noticed that he simply talks about stuff any of us could see.

I guess it comes down to what people care about? Actual technical analysis or detailed observation? I"m not having a go at him, it takes commitment to do what he does, I'm just surprised that on a forum like GAF where concrete data is valued pretty much above all, a guy like this would even be given much time of day.
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Dont get me wrong.
I get he shouldnt be put on such a high pedastal.
If anything people take his word too highly.
I even mentioned that in my time on GAF ive seen posters or rather threads that do a better job at technical analysis....he is just a nice spot to get a good amount of info in a quick video. And i can link his stuff without giving people a wall of text

Ive done tech analysis at his level to friends many many times, just never bothered to actually record them and my voice sounds gruff as shit so no one would want to hear me talk about anything.
I once went as far as to actually hook up two TVs in my living room and prove to people the differences between versions of a game.
Had i the voice, i would have just recorded that stuff and sent it.

So yeah lets not put him too too highly as a tech expert or something.
But it is stuff that i can appreciate, sometimes its even just because i dont have the time to explain to someone why chromatic abberation in game x is better implemented than in game Y, so just show them a video.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
leeh said:
You know what, the fact that no-one on hear questioned it being 900p and it's what this whole thread is about on the first few pages is shaming. It really is.
Click to expand...

Nah, it wasn't publicly stated that the game runs at 1080p and it wouldn't be the first XboxOne game to be 900p.
What I found weirder was that some people were still sceptical after the developer stated that it is actually 1080p, as if he were talking about upscaled output.


freefornow said:
Isnt this commentor a moderator here, or is someone taking the piss???
WSLWijk.jpg
[/IMG]
Click to expand...

hesido said:
That seems like an awful attack on GAF, an account with bad intentions.
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Sephiroth_GR_ said:
Either a fake account or he's making a parody of the site.
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c0de said:
I hope this is a joke because otherwise, this would be pretty embarassing for the moderator and the community itself.
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C'mon, its the "SonyGAF" narrative. Obviously a fake account by a salty Xbox fanboy. Thats the stuff you read about GAF on misterxmedia and TimDogs Twitter feed.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
c0de said:
I hope this is a joke because otherwise, this would be pretty embarassing for the moderator and the community itself.
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lol.....The shadow of the doubt™

Chances of this being a banned member from here is 59.99%. The other 40.01% being a current member obviously mad salty. I would say I have solid candidates on my ignore list...quite big. Lets not derail.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
Nah, it wasn't publicly stated that the game runs at 1080p and it wouldn't be the first XboxOne game to be 900p.
What I found weirder was that some people were still sceptical after the developer stated that it is actually 1080p, as if he were talking about upscaled output.
Click to expand...

With the amount of post processing going on a mistake is quickly made,
especially glancing quickly.
 
H

hesido

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
C'mon, its the "SonyGAF" narrative. Obviously a fake account by a salty Xbox fanboy. Thats the stuff you read about GAF on misterxmedia and TimDogs Twitter feed.
Click to expand...

I never doubted a milisecond. But the dead-pan nature of the post is irritating still.

c0de said:
Well, NXGamer at least fell for it:

proofxgp40.png
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Oh boy... Edit: youtube is blocked here, can someone warn the poor bloke? Edit 2: Comment section loaded. Tried to do some warning. People are really thinking it's for real. Incuding NX Gamer, which is funny in a sad way.


As for Digital Foundry, it makes mistakes too. Last time they failed to identify the frame-blended ghosting for a game (which is edit:now patched) and thought it was "motion blur", while it was clear as day for me and some others, that it was indeed blending of two frames.
 
C

c0de

Member
GnawtyDog said:
lol.....The shadow of the doubt™

Chances of this being a banned member from here is 59.99%. The other 40.01% being a current member obviously mad salty. I would say I have solid candidates on my ignore list...quite big. Lets not derail.
Click to expand...

Huh? I reloaded 3 times and 3 times I get a different post from you ;)
 
J

Jawbreaker

Member
That's a fake account posing as Bish. I remember seeing them in the comments section of another video, but I can't recall which one.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
hesido said:
I never doubted a milisecond. But the dead-pan nature of the post is irritating still.



Oh boy...


As for Digital Foundry, it makes mistakes too. Last time they failed to identify the frame-blended ghosting for a game (which is not patched) and thought it was "motion blur", while it was clear as day for me and some others, that it was indeed blending of two frames.
Click to expand...

Also got the res wrong on the F1 title I think. Thing is they actually have the game in front of them and capture equipment. In this case NX just has compressed video and made a bad assumption.

Certainly in DF's case with F1, post AA, motion blur and DOF and awful CA, its a good leveler. Perhaps only the car is obvious, the rest is a blur fest. Also there's many more doing work on DF now and so many games are 900p. I know Richard Leadbetter can do pixel counting yet he's often not doing the articles.
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Black_Stride said:
Dont get me wrong.
I get he shouldnt be put on such a high pedastal.
If anything people take his word too highly.
I even mentioned that in my time on GAF ive seen posters or rather threads that do a better job at technical analysis....he is just a nice spot to get a good amount of info in a quick video. And i can link his stuff without giving people a wall of text

Ive done tech analysis at his level to friends many many times, just never bothered to actually record them and my voice sounds gruff as shit so no one would want to hear me talk about anything.
I once went as far as to actually hook up two TVs in my living room and prove to people the differences between versions of a game.
Had i the voice, i would have just recorded that stuff and sent it.

So yeah lets not put him too too highly as a tech expert or something.
But it is stuff that i can appreciate, sometimes its even just because i dont have the time to explain to someone why chromatic abberation in game x is better implemented than in game Y, so just show them a video.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
 
L

leeh

Member
chromatic9 said:
Did you miss my post?
Click to expand...
Oh no, I 100% agree with you, just referring to the first few pages.

1.21Gigawatts said:
Nah, it wasn't publicly stated that the game runs at 1080p and it wouldn't be the first XboxOne game to be 900p.
What I found weirder was that some people were still sceptical after the developer stated that it is actually 1080p, as if he were talking about upscaled output.
Click to expand...
We're meant to the community which discusses games and are capable of discussing them in a technical manner, the fact that no one questioned it when the gameplay was clearly 1080p is just a bit of a shame.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
leeh said:
We're meant to the community which discusses games and are capable of discussing them in a technical manner, the fact that no one questioned it when the gameplay was clearly 1080p is just a bit of a shame.
Click to expand...

Was there Gamersyde footage or direct feed screenshots? Because from a youtube video there is no way to tell whether thats 900p or 1080p, especially with the post processing going on in TR.
 
A

AP90

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
Nah, it wasn't publicly stated that the game runs at 1080p and it wouldn't be the first XboxOne game to be 900p.
What I found weirder was that some people were still sceptical after the developer stated that it is actually 1080p, as if he were talking about upscaled output.










C'mon, its the "SonyGAF" narrative. Obviously a fake account by a salty Xbox fanboy. Thats the stuff you read about GAF on misterxmedia and TimDogs Twitter feed.
Click to expand...

Well threads on here can definitely get very salty at times...but people can get excited on both sides as there are and will always be fanboys (I do dislike the mob mentality that sometimes occurs with this).

I do sometimes feel that on occasion one side does get overly critiqued over the other on some threads, but that is not representative of the whole picture on GAF.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
DF just recently made a resolution mistake for a certain racing game. So yes people, humans can make mistakes with so much technical stuff that games pump out now

And that YouTube comment, goodness.
 
T

THRILLH0

Banned
I don't have an issue with this NX gamer dude making a mistake. He's just a punter making videos and he posted an apology when his mistake was pointed out. No big deal.

What I find funny is how foolish this has made some people seem; firstly the "XB1 can't possibly render this at 1080p" crowd and then the "900p vs 1080p is night and day to anyone with 2 functioning eyes" brigade.
 
L

leeh

Member
1.21Gigawatts said:
Was there Gamersyde footage or direct feed screenshots? Because from a youtube video there is no way to tell whether thats 900p or 1080p, especially with the post processing going on in TR.
Click to expand...
I posted a gameplay video on youtube, and if you have an eye for it, like someone else posted, it was obvious. I usually watch youtube vids on my big TV, and I feel like quality is better through those which may make a difference.

I even remember thinking in the conference when it was being shown "Oh, it's good that's its stayed 1080p".

There is Gamersyde footage btw: http://www.gamersyde.com/game_2982_en.html
 
L

Lockjaw333

Member
There have been enough instances now where people have flat out gotten resolution wrong to show that most people can't tell the difference between a 900p and 1080p presentation without a) being told or b)having a side by side comparison.

I'm primarily a pc gamer and consider myself sensitive to things like resolution, but most of the time it's just hard to say whether something is 900p or 1080p just buy looking at it and not pixel counting, as he admitted he did not and instead took the word of a dev interview.

Another example to show this really isn't that big of a deal. Totally blown our of proportion this gen.
 
M

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I'd be shocked if it wasn't 1080p, seen as how it's a cross-gen game.
 
TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
leeh said:
You know what, the fact that no-one on hear questioned it being 900p and it's what this whole thread is about on the first few pages is shaming. It really is.
Click to expand...
I questioned it in the original gameplay thread.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
NX Gamer seems like a pretty cool dude, he apologized for the second time directly. Also, I told him about that "Tim Lewinson" person from YouTube comments being a parody thing.
 
N

nib95

Banned
c0de said:
I hope this is a joke because otherwise, this would be pretty embarassing for the moderator and the community itself.
Click to expand...

I find it hilarious that you even have to question the veracity of it. And NXGamer isn't a GAFer, so he likely isn't as clued up as to who, or rather what Bish is. Just sounds like some salty impersonation account that is trying to troll Bish/GAF.
 
S

Somnia

Member
I thought this seemed like it was 1080p from the gamersyde video when I watched it. Honestly though the whole 900v1080 thing never bothered me. Below 900 is a problem imo, but 900 and up is fine for me.
 
F

FunkyDealer

Banned
Game4life said:
No ps2 game comes close. UC2 on PS3 did look comparable and in many ways looked better in my opinion https://youtu.be/LR0yNtOy_ug?t=276
Click to expand...

I'm guessing someone's already pointed this out, but I actually played Uncharted 2 yesterday and the snow-effect is nowhere near as impressive today as it was last gen. You can tell it's creating geometry on top of the ground instead of displacing it.

I think it's an area in which there's still a lot of room for improvement, but the snow-tracks in Tomb Raider looks notably better. You don't leave tracks very long in Uncharted 2 either.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
FunkyDealer said:
I'm guessing someone's already pointed this out, but I actually played Uncharted 2 yesterday and the snow-effect is nowhere near as impressive today as it was last gen. You can tell it's creating geometry on top of the ground instead of displacing it.

I think it's an area in which there's still a lot of room for improvement, but the snow-tracks in Tomb Raider looks notably better. You don't leave tracks very long in Uncharted 2 either.
Click to expand...

Yea, I mean, there's two types of this effect. Uncharted's type which just adds a model of the snow deformation, and ROTR's which actually calculates the deformation, and is dynamic, not just a model glued on top. But this is due to new generation's power, we saw the same thing in Uncharted 4, where the mud displacement was calculated based on the physics engine, same thing as ROTR's snow calculation.
 
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