• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Rock Band 4 |OT| We're Putting The Rock Band Back Together

vg260

Member
Waiting on masters confirmation on the the Heart song, but it's kind of a boring one, so I'll likely pass.

Not really happy with how Harmonix has been handling and communicating the stem thing, and I got burned on a number of songs I would have passed on had I known, so I'm passing on the the meh songs for me and impulse buys I previously would have picked up for the heck of it to support the game.
 
Aww, yeah! Winger!
 

FyreWulff

Member
I'll be getting my own S soon, so time to transition over to RB4 full time. For posterity.. my bass career score I built up over the past few years. (All of the weekend RB3 randos I played with moved to RB4 once it was announced online was coming with the expansion)


I'm in the top 5
00
of all time!



Before I pack it away for good though, I need to do up that strumming tutorial vid I promised way back..
 

Gleethor

Member
Had a feeling nothing from Dreamboat Annie would show, it was a pretty low-budget record and their first album to boot, which is the usual recipe for lost/damaged masters that can't be used in RB.
 

Gleethor

Member
Like Harmonix give a piss about masters anymore.

I *think* that the tracks that don't use full stems are still using the masters, but are using masters that weren't multi-tracked properly or (in the case of more modern pop songs) have label fuckery requiring HMX to muddy up the stems so nobody can rip them (fun fact: all of the modern songs that do this already have their stems available on the internet)

So the most likely scenario is that the masters for all of Dreamboat Annie are MIA, in which case we'd need either a live version, re-record or cover. I think by now we have enough evidence to show that Heart isn't against giving out actual stems (What About Love? has confirmed stems, btw) or against licensing their material.
 

vg260

Member
I *think* that the tracks that don't use full stems are still using the masters, but are using masters that weren't multi-tracked properly or (in the case of more modern pop songs) have label fuckery requiring HMX to muddy up the stems so nobody can rip them (fun fact: all of the modern songs that do this already have their stems available on the internet)

This is my guess as to what is happening with a lot of these songs, and if so I want Harmonix to take a stand on quality, and tell the labels this won't cut it for our game, because that degrades the game play and pursue other music instead. I don't consider that a case of downmixed or never get the song. It just means they can't get it now due to label stubbornness which could change. It's different than old tracks with damaged or missing masters.

It feels like a misguided protection attempt by labels which ends up hurting the real customer more, much like ridiculius software DRM which hurts paying customers most.
 
This is my guess as to what is happening with a lot of these songs, and if so I want Harmonix to take a stand on quality, and tell the labels this won't cut it for our game, because that degrades the game play and pursue other music instead. I don't consider that a case of downmixed or never get the song. It just means they can't get it now due to label stubbornness which could change. It's different than old tracks with damaged or missing masters.

It feels like a misguided protection attempt by labels which ends up hurting the real customer more, much like ridiculius software DRM which hurts paying customers most.

Let's be honest, though. Harmonix doesn't really have anywhere near enough leverage to play hardball in this situation. The game didn't sell enough for them to tell the label "Look, you're missing out on hundreds of thousands here if you don't give us the stems". There's a legit argment that HMX needs hit songs as DLC more than the labels need the extra income from being DLC.
 
Let's be honest, though. Harmonix doesn't really have anywhere near enough leverage to play hardball in this situation.

Bingo. They don't having the backing of previous publishers like MTV (Who had a TON of connections with music labels and the industry) and EA (A publisher with a ton of revenue). The music game genre doesn't hold anywhere near as much clout as it used to either, as GH:Live and RB4's sales have proven. Harmonix unfortunately is a small team now getting by on a shoestring budget these days. It's unfortunate, but a sad reality.
 

vg260

Member
Let's be honest, though. Harmonix doesn't really have anywhere near enough leverage to play hardball in this situation. The game didn't sell enough for them to tell the label "Look, you're missing out on hundreds of thousands here if you don't give us the stems". There's a legit argment that HMX needs hit songs as DLC more than the labels need the extra income from being DLC.

Yeah, I dont disagree, but I'm working on the assumption that there are plenty of other songs they could get that the already small audience would still happily support. Maybe that's being unrealistic too.
 
I feel like I am in the minority about the stems and masters issue. While I would love them to have access to all the stems and masters, as Harmonix's work with them has been stellar for years, I understand the logistics and reality of the music game market and Harmonix's position in it now. If it comes down to getting something without separate stems vs no song at all, I am fine without the same standards as before. It isn't crap quality, but it isn't up to the same standards as before. But average to above average is better than nothing, and I am just happy that the series is continuing any way that it can.
 

Gleethor

Member
I feel like I am in the minority about the stems and masters issue. While I would love them to have access to all the stems and masters, as Harmonix's work with them has been stellar for years, I understand the logistics and reality of the music game market and Harmonix's position in it now. If it comes down to getting something without separate stems vs no song at all, I am fine without the same standards as before. It isn't crap quality, but it isn't up to the same standards as before. But average to above average is better than nothing, and I am just happy that the series is continuing any way that it can.

mmm, sometimes it is crap. No amount of tweaking your audio settings will make RB4's version of Hemorrhage sound like it wasn't recorded in a tin can.
 
I feel like I am in the minority about the stems and masters issue. While I would love them to have access to all the stems and masters, as Harmonix's work with them has been stellar for years, I understand the logistics and reality of the music game market and Harmonix's position in it now. If it comes down to getting something without separate stems vs no song at all, I am fine without the same standards as before. It isn't crap quality, but it isn't up to the same standards as before. But average to above average is better than nothing, and I am just happy that the series is continuing any way that it can.

Yeah. same here. While I would prefer fully separated stems, the reality of the situation is still good enough for me.
 

vg260

Member
Honestly I have enough songs already to last me forever with almost all of my top requests, and don't really need to buy anymore. Losing the music interactivity makes it no longer Rock Band to me. If RB4 turns into a glorified customs game, I have no problem calling it quits, as sad as I would be about it

It was already declared dead once, and we pretty much accepted it. All the good quality RB4 DLC is just icing, really, which in my opinion is reason enough for me to say keep it the same quality standards, or I'll move on.

I'm still going to keep complaining until that happens and hope for the best :p
 
Time for my first playthrough scores, stem confirmations, and impressions!

"Seventeen" - Winger
Expert Guitar: 297,760 | 98% Notes Hit | Gold Stars | Tier 7 (Impossible)
Expert Bass: 198,845 | 100% Full Combo | Gold Stars | Tier 3 (Moderate)

Are the stems seperated?
Confirmed! Guitar and bass tracks mute when missing notes on either instrument respectively. No other tracks outside of the instrument you're playing takes a dip in quality or changes. Go ahead and buy this one without any worries!

"What About Love?" - Heart
Expert Guitar: 70,080 | 100% Full Combo | Gold Stars | Tier 1 (Apprentice)
Expert Bass: 58,712 | 100% Full Combo | Gold Stars | Tier 0 (Warmup)

Are the stems seperated?
Confirmed! Guitar and bass tracks mute when missing notes on either instrument respectively. No other tracks outside of the instrument you're playing takes a dip in quality or changes. Go ahead and buy this one without any worries!

Impressions

Seventeen (Guitar):
Those who are new to Expert beware, "Seventeen" is easily one of the hardest guitar charts we've had in a long time. Crazy ass constant chord changes throughout during the main riffs, and some bonkers guitar solos. The song never lets up, there's no dead spots or relaxing breaks, a fantastic song, buy it if you enjoy the song, but be wary of the difficulty. It's Devil tiered for a reason. The first song to break my 100% FC streak since "Hook" a few months back!

Seventeen (Bass): Easily one of the best bass charts we've had so far in RB4. There's a nice mix of laid back single note strumming, and snaking up and down the fretboard with hammer-on strings. It even gets a bit bouncy at times with some faster double strumming. For a tier 3 bass chart it's great fun. I've got no qualms recommending this song if you're a dedicated bass player.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What About Love? (Guitar): It's a tier 1 guitar chart, and most of the first half of the song is sustained chords, but I still enjoyed it. The solo in the second half is great fun, and one section of it in particular might catch you off guard and ruin your FC attempt if you're not prepared for it. Overall, for an easy song it's decent. Great song through, one of the better songs Heart has done in my opinion!

What About Love? (Bass): Now this was a pretty rubbish chart! Like long sustained single notes? This song is full of them. Sadly you only get a bit of variety towards the end with a couple of instances of steadily alt-strummed single notes but it comes too later unfortunately. The bass chart for this one is easily the weakest chart of the week!
 

vg260

Member
FYI, Harmonix said yesterday the plan to play the rivals pre-order songs on the Monday stream in two weeks.

Worth noting if you're waiting to see if they have separated tracks.
 
To save anyone having to look through the last few pages for seperation confirmations, here's a breakdown of this month's DLC quality.

Track Seperation Round-Up (August 2016)


  • Mr. Jones - Counting Crows: Confirmed!
  • Blurred Lines: - Robin Thicke: Confirmed!
  • Heaven Is A Place On Earth - Belinda Carlisle: Confirmed!
  • Bad Catholics - The Barbazons: Confirmed!
  • If Only You Could See - Tonic: Negative...
  • Everything You Want - Vertical Horizon: Confirmed!
  • I'm Yours - Jason Mraz: Confirmed!
  • Starships - Nicki Minaj: Negative...
  • What About Love? - Heart: Confirmed!
  • Seventeen - Winger: Confirmed!

Total Songs with track seperation: 8/10 (80%)

A solid month overall!
 
Seventeen is one of the best damn reasons for having masters. On RB the song lasts nearly a minute longer than the album version which just fades out, and the GH80s cover which is based on the original.
 

Vimes

Member
Damn, I bought the Chili Peppers songs that were about to be delisted through the Xbox website for RB3, but they seem to already be pulled from the RB3 in-game store and I can't buy the Pro Guitar upgrades. At least I already had Californication and Otherside...
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Damn, I bought the Chili Peppers songs that were about to be delisted through the Xbox website for RB3, but they seem to already be pulled from the RB3 in-game store and I can't buy the Pro Guitar upgrades. At least I already had Californication and Otherside...
I bought the Fleetwood Mac pack from the website after the songs had been pulled from the in-game store. Bums me out that I can't play them but maybe eventually HMX will pull through on the delisted songs and I'll be able to download them then.


I happened to go into the GH Live thread just now for the first time in quite a while and saw that GH got Modest Mouse's "Ocean Breathes Salty." Man, I would love to play that but I don't feel like hooking up the GH dongle, and then getting a feel for the controller again, and then messing around with their streaming catalog system. It would be nice if it came to Rock Band at some point. It's kind of sad to think that there is only one MM song in the RB catalog, and on top of that, it is "Float On."
 

Vimes

Member
I bought the Fleetwood Mac pack from the website after the songs had been pulled from the in-game store. Bums me out that I can't play them but maybe eventually HMX will pull through on the delisted songs and I'll be able to download them then.

Wait, so what's holding you up from playing them? Or are you also talking about RB3 Pro Guitar?

If you're on xbox you should be able to go into your download history and get them, if you have a purchase record. I have no idea how PSN works with this stuff, or how the RB4 entitlement process works (since I have yet to get an XBO).
 

FyreWulff

Member
Wait, so what's holding you up from playing them? Or are you also talking about RB3 Pro Guitar?

If you're on xbox you should be able to go into your download history and get them, if you have a purchase record. I have no idea how PSN works with this stuff, or how the RB4 entitlement process works (since I have yet to get an XBO).

If songs are pulled from in-game store on the One you still can't download them, even if the song made it to RB4's store first. And you can't redownload on the One, currently, if a song gets pulled, due to it's "ready to install" setup instead of just having a list like the 360.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Some quick vids I made.

Rooting on Orange

Moving the pointer finger is easier than moving your pinky. (to be honest, i underestimated how my giant ass hands would obscure the frets so I don't think this video turned out well)

Alt Strumming Pointers

Just some of my strategies for dealing with alt strumming.

Fingerwalking in RB like on a real bass + using bass to learn triplet strumming

You can do this with most RB/GH guitars.

Chord Sliding on alternating chords

Let your wrist do the work instead of your fingers. Slide your hand whenever you see


xoxox
oxoxx
xoxox

patterns instead of lifting up and putting down the fingers.

edit: I borrowed someone else's house for noise reasons. The Mario window covering isn't mine, so i don't know where it's from :p
 

Tapejara

Member
Appreciate the vid on alt-strumming, FyreWullf! I've been playing since Guitar Hero 2 and I could never get the hang of it, despite alt-strumming being second nature for me on an actual guitar.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Appreciate the vid on alt-strumming, FyreWolf! I've been playing since Guitar Hero 2 and I could never get the hang of it, despite alt-strumming being second nature for me on an actual guitar.

Yeah, they're different enough that they can lead to the other but aren't exactly the same.

RB led me to playing real bass. I didn't even notice I was resting my thumb on an invisible E string for the fingerwalking vid until I reviewed it , lol
 
So, any word on the Rock Band Rivals pre-order making its way to PSN in Europe? Or the RB2 export? Or any more DLC?

I'm guessing not. I listened to Alanis Morissette and Lush today and I miss RB2. I even miss playing Nine in the Afternoon. And I can't get to my PS3 at the moment, even with my shiny new WoR Guitar. (The Start button is in a worse place than the GH5 guitar, and I still need to get used to the thick neck after so much time with the RB4-tar, but other than that it's great)

In other news, I had no idea how far down the list Seventeen is for difficulty on guitar. For reference, these are some of the songs it's listed as being harder than:

Surfing With the Alien
The Trooper
Tornado of Souls
Crazy Train
Hot for Teacher
Raining Blood
Constant Motion (lol)

Having played it, I can't say I entirely disagree with some of the songs but still, wouldn't have seen it coming. Even if tiers are mostly a joke now.
 

FyreWulff

Member
No word yet. Sony has to give some sort of "new tool" and they're probably getting held up by the merge of Sony Europe into the rest of Sony
 

Enthus

Member
Does anyone else have to reconnect their drums and guitar every time they play on PS4? I have to resync bluetooth every time and it is really annoying.
 
I miss playing Rock Band 4 but I just can't seem to muster the energy with the absolute garbage guitar that it has on Xbox one. Does anyone else have the issue where it just freezes up in the middle of the songs. It's super intermittent, and sometimes will freeze within the first song and I have to stop in the middle and pull the batteries out and put them back in and then turn it back on and restart the song or I fail. Sometimes it'll happen once every few songs sometimes it will happen in the same song multiple times, sometimes it will happen once in a hour long session. it's super unreliable and I've made sure the firmware was updated and I've actually replaced the guitar once as well. Is anyone else having this issue?
 

FyreWulff

Member
I miss playing Rock Band 4 but I just can't seem to muster the energy with the absolute garbage guitar that it has on Xbox one. Does anyone else have the issue where it just freezes up in the middle of the songs. It's super intermittent, and sometimes will freeze within the first song and I have to stop in the middle and pull the batteries out and put them back in and then turn it back on and restart the song or I fail. Sometimes it'll happen once every few songs sometimes it will happen in the same song multiple times, sometimes it will happen once in a hour long session. it's super unreliable and I've made sure the firmware was updated and I've actually replaced the guitar once as well. Is anyone else having this issue?

Did the first guitar have the same exact issue?

That sounds like a bad guitar circuitboard to me which would need RMA. If it's two separate guitars that have done that, I would start to suspect your One itself has a bad radio board.
 
Same issue on two different guitars. I was thinking about it just being a console issue, which sucks because it doesn't happen with normal controllers at all.
 
Top Bottom