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Roguelike Fans Rejoice! (or not?)

duckroll

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Jun 7, 2004
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They're not unknown. They're the wonderful publishers that localized the korean hits ASTONISHIA STORY and VALCANUS in Japan.
 

kiryogi

Banned
Jun 6, 2004
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Rogues refer to games like Torneko/Shiren/Asuka/Pokemon's mysterious dungeon or nightmare of Drauga. It was named off of some old pc game I believe.
 
Sep 27, 2004
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kiryogi said:
Rogues refer to games like Torneko/Shiren/Asuka/Pokemon's mysterious dungeon or nightmare of Drauga. It was named off of some old pc game I believe.
Oh. :(

Would PMD be considered one of the "lesser" of roguelikes? I've been hearing a lot about this sub-genre lately, but I couldn't get into that game. I bought it and stopped playing after about 30 minutes. Maybe something else in this category could pique my interest.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
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kiryogi said:
Roguelikes refer to games like Torneko/Shiren/Asuka/Pokemon's mysterious dungeon or nightmare of Drauga. It was named off of some old pc game called Rogue.
Fixed.
 

arne

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Sep 13, 2005
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kiryogi said:
Rogues refer to games like Torneko/Shiren/Asuka/Pokemon's mysterious dungeon or nightmare of Drauga. It was named off of some old pc game I believe.

I love how the answer to what is a roguelike is to describe a list of jrpgs... and oh, it's from some pc game. :p


The rogue linked in the OP looks like a reworked, upgraded version to Rogue or Moria or the still live and kicking Nethack

Background here: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/08/_play_introduction_1.php#more

See Rogue here: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/09/_play_the_first_two_roguelikes.php



Even TJ&E is described as a roguelike: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/10/_play_toejam_earl_the_roguelik_1.php#more
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
Feb 6, 2005
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Hey, that actually looks neat and how I'd envision a graphically nice and more accessible rogue-like to look like.
 

Muppet345

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Oct 16, 2006
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I hate these threads because you always get three or four people who have never played a real roguelike talking about some totally unrelated games that are bad representations of the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

This is a really good article actually. The best roguelikes like Nethack and IVAN tend to not have any real story or characters because you can die so randomly. Series like Mystery Dungeon tend to be awful in comparison because they remove all of the stuff that can happen to you. For example, in most roguelikes you can pick up your severed arm and use it as a weapon. Not so in a game where the main character is too pretty and important to have such horrific and hilarious events occur to them.

There are exceptions of course, but the further the game strays from the formula, the less of a roguelike it is.

If you want to try one out, I suggest starting with graphical or ascii Nethack. The former is a bit more accessible if you've never tried a roguelike before, since you won't have to remember what all of the letters mean.
 

duckroll

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This is being published by Compile Hearts, a company set up by Idea Factory to publish shit like Astonishia Story and Valcanus.

It is being developed by Plophet, a tiny developer best known for the D3 published Simple series games The Maze and The Dungeon RPG.

The only light at the end of the tunnel is that the "supervisor" is the Japanese guy that originally translated Rogue and all support docs into Japanese.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect much. :p


Edit: Also, many many more pics here: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070112/rogue.htm
 

BooJoh

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Oct 24, 2005
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I guess it's to be expected, but it looks pretty much just like every Mysterious Dungeon game. I remember playing Rogue on my dad's PC as a kid.. that game kicked my butt more times than I can count. I actually prefer the more streamlined graphical updates that we get these days. The ascii games always seemed overly-complicated to me.
 

iapetus

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May 31, 2004
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Kevar said:
For example, in most roguelikes you can pick up your severed arm and use it as a weapon.
Um. No.

Kevar said:
If you want to try one out, I suggest starting with graphical or ascii Nethack. The former is a bit more accessible if you've never tried a roguelike before, since you won't have to remember what all of the letters mean.
Good lord, no. Nethack is a horrible place to start with roguelikes. A game that's crammed full of inside jokes and full of arbitrary and nasty ways to die from the very start? No. You're better off starting with either a more modern game like ADOM or ToME, or possibly one of the simpler and purer roguelikes - vanilla Angband or even Moria. Ragnarok might be a possibility if you want something with slightly prettier graphics, though it's a bit closer to Nethack in its potential to be incredibly brutal to the player.
 

Aeana

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Jul 10, 2006
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I am definitely all over this. Hopefully, it will turn out well. I won't expect much, so maybe I can be pleasantly surprised. It does look pretty interesting from the screenshots and descriptions on the site, though.
 

Teasel

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Feb 6, 2006
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Kevar said:
If you want to try one out, I suggest starting with graphical or ascii Nethack. The former is a bit more accessible if you've never tried a roguelike before, since you won't have to remember what all of the letters mean.
uh? there is a version of nethack with a graphical interface meaning i don't have to remember more than 40 buttons? link me please! the interface is the only reason i can't get into nethack
Forgotten Ancient said:
Would PMD be considered one of the "lesser" of roguelikes?
yes PMD just plain sucks! it's an easy game,it has terrible treasures and most pokemon acts always in the same way,if you want to try a true fushigi no dungeon game pick the fantranslated version of shiren the wanderer for snes
 

kiryogi

Banned
Jun 6, 2004
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Well excuse me :p Not everyones quite aware of the game and I was just using modern examples that'd be more recognizable. Which worked out in the end for the question asker.
 

SpoonyBard

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Jun 8, 2004
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Larn was my favourite Roguelike on Atari ST, it was simpler and more straightforward than NetHack. I tried to find a PC build a couple of years ago, but didn't find one. Just some unix sources that didn't compile even on a Solaris so I gave up :(
 

Mejilan

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Muppet345

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iapetus said:
Good lord, no. Nethack is a horrible place to start with roguelikes. A game that's crammed full of inside jokes and full of arbitrary and nasty ways to die from the very start? No. You're better off starting with either a more modern game like ADOM or ToME, or possibly one of the simpler and purer roguelikes - vanilla Angband or even Moria. Ragnarok might be a possibility if you want something with slightly prettier graphics, though it's a bit closer to Nethack in its potential to be incredibly brutal to the player.
I recommended NetHack because that's the game I've had the most success with in recommending to other people. /shrug They usually like all of the random stuff that can happen, and then try out other roguelikes. It also takes three seconds to download and runs in the most minimal window ever, which is another plus, although not one exclusive to Nethack.

uh? there is a version of nethack with a graphical interface meaning i don't have to remember more than 40 buttons? link me please! the interface is the only reason i can't get into nethack
Well, you still have to remember like 40 buttons for entering commands, you just don't have to remember what the letters representing the characters and items mean. It's on the official site, I think.

http://www.nethack.org/v343/downloads.html
 

haowan

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Nethack is still the best I've played.

Also try Ancient Domains Of Mystery if you're getting into RLs or are into them but haven't tried it, it's pretty epic. IVAN is great (and pretty funny) but sadly has been abandoned.

Castlevania and Metroid Roguelikes
DOOM Roguelike

Dwarf Fortress - this one's pretty odd, you play a party of dwarves mining into a mountain. Kind of like Dungeon Keeper in RL form. Also takes an age to generate the world, and there's a standard Roguelike portion of the game too, complete with wrasslin'.
 

Gendal

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Ah my favorite genre. I appreciate the Japanese attempts to duplicate it, they seem to like the genre, but never really got it. I think some imports could change my mind, but I don't understand the smallest fraction of Kanji.

I grew up with Angband and never really got into Nethack. It's just too crazy with more of an emphasis on weird rules and amazingly deep interactions between items and monsters than just straight up combat and item collection. Not a nice game to newbies.

I highly recommend T.O.M.E if you get the chance, it's like Angband on crack, with multiple dungeons and an overworld. Chances are you will never run out of things to do, and if you ever did then you still have mods to go on. If you have a 1.5 homebrew compatible PSP you can try it on it, along with the original Angband.

One common theme to roguelikes is permenant death. You can always turn on wizard mode though if you want to "cheat," or for the rest of us, those that want to see more of the game with out having to play so anally.
 

SpoonyBard

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Yeah I quickly googled those too, but the best bet would still be running ST or Amiga version under emulator, as I don't have home access for Unix machines any longer. It's not really a big deal, I can just play NetHack if I feel like playing that kind of game, or start learning ADOM if I'm really bored.
 

iapetus

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SpoonyBard said:
Yeah I quickly googled those too, but the best bet would still be running ST or Amiga version under emulator, as I don't have home access for Unix machines any longer. It's not really a big deal, I can just play NetHack if I feel like playing that kind of game, or start learning ADOM if I'm really bored.
Um.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/jolds/ularn.htm

Windows version FTW?
 

Tyrannical

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Apr 14, 2007
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NetHack is pretty much impossible to win with out the in dephth FAQS.
With the FAQS, it's only "almost" impossible unless you cheat and back up your save file.
 

dog$

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Jun 8, 2004
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Nethack is impossible if you expect to kill everything in your path. I've come to confirm this using the better wizard cheat. It really seems like the only way to win is to only fight the battles you can assuredly finish. Or you can be like Patito and never fight at all.

If you haven't read about Patito the Gnomish Priest, give that a look. It's a good read.

As for the new game, it looks interesting, but not $60 interesting. NCS made it seem pretty neat though.
 

syllogism

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Tyrannical said:
NetHack is pretty much impossible to win with out the in dephth FAQS.
With the FAQS, it's only "almost" impossible unless you cheat and back up your save file.
Nethack is actually pretty easy to win once you know how to handle and recognize dangerous situations. It's more predictable than most roguelikes and longtime players impose artificial restrictions such as pacifism to make it more challenging.
 

birdchili

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Sep 18, 2005
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syllogism said:
Nethack is actually pretty easy to win once you know how to handle and recognize dangerous situations.
nethack is a savage beating if you play it without savescumming and spoilers. i've played almost 300 games since i (re-)picked it up a couple of years ago and i'm still don't think i'm particularly close to winning. you do get *way* better at it though - which is part of the appeal of these games for me - i've got a little book where i keep notes when i figure stuff out.

being good at nethack is largely about managing danger (keeping escape routes open, knowing what the scary situations are, and not being cocky. ever.), and managing inventory (knowing what to keep, and when). having some good luck never hurts either.
 

flammie

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Apr 1, 2006
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birdchili said:
nethack is a savage beating if you play it without savescumming and spoilers. i've played almost 300 games since i (re-)picked it up a couple of years ago and i'm still don't think i'm particularly close to winning. you do get *way* better at it though - which is part of the appeal of these games for me - i've got a little book where i keep notes when i figure stuff out.

being good at nethack is largely about managing danger (keeping escape routes open, knowing what the scary situations are, and not being cocky. ever.), and managing inventory (knowing what to keep, and when). having some good luck never hurts either.
Nethack is easily beatable if you get lucky with an early /oW (wand of wishing). You definitely need spoilers though, the game is way too complex to figure out everything by yourself (outside of reading the source code), and the guidebook that comes with the game purposely give very little information outside of the importance of Elbereth.
 

birdchili

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flammie said:
Nethack is easily beatable if you get lucky with an early /oW (wand of wishing). You definitely need spoilers though, the game is way too complex to figure out everything by yourself
i doubt it would be half as much fun with spoilers though.

i shall make loud whooping noises when i beat it, but it's about so much more than winning (i celebrate the little victories, really - whenever you manage to cleverly dodge certain death is cause for minor victory celebrations).

i've been playing it a lot less of late since i'm good enough that an average game is quite long and dying is so much more painful than it was when i was green.
 

Victrix

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Sep 1, 2005
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as you get better and better at nethack, your average character lifespan increases, and once you pass a certain threshold, you can nearly always make it to the endgame

... getting to that point however

as for original news, rogue, meh :p

love me some roguelikes though