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[greyshark]

I don't in which world you live - clearly not mine.

CTB is widely recognized in the industry and by the community as one of the snappiest, most responsive battle systems ever employed by the franchise. Even people who hate FFX find time to compliment it.

If there is one thing that FFXIII are not is resposive. Nor fast.

Not to shit up this thread any more, since it’s a great thread about a great game, but you’re full of shit and don’t know what you’re talking about.

FFXIII is a very fast paced game, and is designed to have battles complete quickly once you figure out how it works. The strongest enemy in the game, the Long Gui, can be beaten in about 90 seconds with the right strategy, and does not need to rely on any cheap exploits or glitches. Every other tough boss in the game can be beaten as quickly if you know what you’re doing.

The people complaining about FFXIII’s battle system usually do inane things like using Commando roles the entire time and wonder why they’re never doing any damage.

None of this is a knock against the great CTB in FF X, but to call a battle system that is 100% turn based (which allows for slow paced strategic thinking) as fast as FFXIII is simply false.

 

[Kev Kev]

Not to shit up this thread any more, since it’s a great thread about a great game, but you’re full of shit and don’t know what you’re talking about.

FFXIII is a very fast paced game, and is designed to have battles complete quickly once you figure out how it works. The strongest enemy in the game, the Long Gui, can be beaten in about 90 seconds with the right strategy, and does not need to rely on any cheap exploits or glitches. Every other tough boss in the game can be beaten as quickly if you know what you’re doing.

The people complaining about FFXIII’s battle system usually do inane things like using Commando roles the entire time and wonder why they’re never doing any damage.

None of this is a knock against the great CTB in FF X, but to call a battle system that is 100% turn based (which allows for slow paced strategic thinking) as fast as FFXIII is simply false.

I’m actually really looking forward to trying 13 again. The battle system was great from what I remember. Same thing with 12. I only made it a handful of hours into each game so it’ll be kind of like playing for the first time!

 

[Komatsu]

Not to shit up this thread any more, since it’s a great thread about a great game, but you’re full of shit and don’t know what you’re talking about.

FFXIII is a very fast paced game, and is designed to have battles complete quickly once you figure out how it works. The strongest enemy in the game, the Long Gui, can be beaten in about 90 seconds with the right strategy, and does not need to rely on any cheap exploits or glitches. Every other tough boss in the game can be beaten as quickly if you know what you’re doing.

As Ixion has excellently explained in this very thread, FFXIII "CSB" system is not particularly responsive or interactive. If you think whether a system is "fast", "snappy" etc. has to do with how long it takes to defeat a particular enemy, you are wasting our time. I'm not going to argue the responsiveness of a system in which actions are tied to "ATB blocks" , which refill gradually.

In the US version, Omega was around the same difficulty as the final main story bosses (or even slightly easier).

That was one thing that absolutely caught me unprepared. When I played thru FFX-Int expecting to trash Omega... Boy, was I in for a surprise..

 

[greyshark]

As Ixion has excellently explained in this very thread, FFXIII "CSB" system is not particularly responsive or interactive. If you think whether a system is "fast", "snappy" etc. has to do with how long it takes to defeat a particular enemy, you are wasting our time. I'm not going to argue the responsiveness of a system in which actions are tied to "ATB blocks" , which refill gradually.

Like I said, completely full of shit. Anyone claiming it takes too long to fill a stagger meter clearly has no idea how to play FFXIII. And LOL at claiming waiting for ATB gauges to fill up is takes too much time. Even that can be skipped through paradigm switching.

 

[Komatsu]

Like I said, completely full of shit.

Sorry, not wasting my time. Move along.

 

[cireza]

If there is one thing that FFXIII are not is resposive. Nor fast.

Replayed all three games during the last couple years, as well as FF X. FF XIII games are perfectly responsive and battles are fast. Lightning Returns has probably my favorite battle system from any JRPG by the way.

Sonic Unleashed is faster though, I have to admit this.

 

[Komatsu]

Replayed all three games during the last couple years, as well as FF X. FF XIII games are perfectly responsive and battles are fast. Lightning Returns has probably my favorite battle system from any JRPG by the way.

Sonic Unleashed is faster though, I have to admit this.

I am currently about 9h into FFXIII on my XSX and not really enjoying it all that much, though I am past the point where I dropped it back in 2009. I find the battle system annoying and lacking in many ways, which is perhaps whey they ended up dropping it completely in Lightning Returns.

For the record, in that sentence of mine you quoted, I meant to write “FFXIII battles” but it seems like I dropped a word.

 

[cireza]

I am currently about 9h into FFXIII on my XSX and not really enjoying it all that much, though I am past the point where I dropped it back in 2009. I find the battle system annoying and lacking in many ways, which is perhaps whey they ended up dropping it completely in Lightning Returns.

For the record, in that sentence of mine you quoted, I meant to write “FFXIII battles” but it seems like I dropped a word.

Honestly, I don't really get how you can make statements like you did if you only played 9 hours of the first game. Lightning Returns is simply an evolution of both previous games. The same mechanics are there (stagger, choc, launchers etc...). You need to play much more before all possibilities are unlocked. FF XIII is about managing a combat flow, not about giving exact orders to every single character. I believe that it is a great battle system, and it was also nice to have something new. Lightning Returns took all these elements, and built around for some fantastic real time action combat.

Hope you stick with these games and realize how rich the systems are.

 

[Komatsu]

Honestly, I don't really get how you can make statements like you did if you only played 9 hours of the first game.

This is not my first time playing the game. I have played (though not beaten, not even close) all three games in the trilogy.

Regardless of this fact, in spite of HLTB pegging this game at around 48h, a cursory scan of a guide tells me I am about 25-30% into it. As for whether someone isn’t equipped to comment on a game after playing a full quarter of it, I would not say that of any of other games in the franchise I have played and beaten (most of them). If you’re not into 7 by the time you leave Midgard or if you don’t like 10 by the time you reach Luca, it’s unlikely anything afterwards will chance your mind. Maybe XIII is different..

LR has a similar combat loop, but both schemata as well as active movement - a first in the franchise, IIRC - make for a significantly different system. Which is why they made such a big deal out of it, choosing a new a name which I can’t recall at the moment and stressing how novel and different it was as compared to XIII-2.

It was also not designed by Tsuchida (also the creator of the CTB system used in FFX, interestingly enough), who had left Squenix by then. Both FFX-2 and Crisis Core were mentioned as significant influences, not something I believe we can say of XIII and XIII-2.

 

[cireza]

Maybe XIII is different..

You obviously can't tell yet

Maybe stop thinking too much about them and comparing, and simply try to enjoy the games ? That's what I do.

 

[Ixion]

Not to shit up this thread any more, since it’s a great thread about a great game, but you’re full of shit and don’t know what you’re talking about.

FFXIII is a very fast paced game, and is designed to have battles complete quickly once you figure out how it works. The strongest enemy in the game, the Long Gui, can be beaten in about 90 seconds with the right strategy, and does not need to rely on any cheap exploits or glitches. Every other tough boss in the game can be beaten as quickly if you know what you’re doing.

The people complaining about FFXIII’s battle system usually do inane things like using Commando roles the entire time and wonder why they’re never doing any damage.

None of this is a knock against the great CTB in FF X, but to call a battle system that is 100% turn based (which allows for slow paced strategic thinking) as fast as FFXIII is simply false.

In FF13, the entire game is going from battle to battle. And 90% of the battle time is spent building up the stagger bar, and then once filled you can do a lot of damage. Yeah it doesn't take 5 hours, but when you're running from battle to battle to battle to battle....to battle....and you have to go through the same song and dance every time to build up the stagger bar for the majority of the fight time, relatively speaking it feels really drawn out.

In FFX on the other hand, those typical field battles you come across throughout the game will see the player taking out each individual enemy with one or two hits each. You take out each enemy much quicker.

To put it simply, the typical FFX battle feels like this:

-Battle starts with three enemies
-"Fuck this enemy!" Killed
-"Fuck this enemy!" Killed
-"Damn, I got hit hard by the last enemy, so let's cast Cura".
-"OK let's cast Silence on this last enemy."
-"Let's fuck this guy up with this special attack"
-"And now let's finish you off!" Killed

Your actions are significant and you move from each action instantly.


The typical FFXIII battle feels like this:

-Battle starts with three enemies:
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the first enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-First enemy killed
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the second enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-Your party is taking some damage, so switch to the healing paradigm
-Party is healed, so switch back to the previous paradigm
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the second enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-Second enemy killed
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the third enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-Third enemy killed


It's the same overall, relatively drawn out, formula that you have to go through every time for both the "trash mob" battles and the bosses. And there is always a chunk of time where you're just kind of waiting for the bar to build while your characters hop around on-screen. The beauty of FFX is that you can go as fast or as slow as you want. So you can speed through most of the typical fights, while taking your time if needed for harder fights and bosses.

Don't get me wrong. FF13's battle system is pretty good, but it's not good enough to carry the entire game, which unfortunately it has to do since there is nothing else. Since the entirety of gameplay consists of battles, I would have greatly preferred to not be required to build the stagger gauge every single time. It gets nauseating after a while. Luckily Final Fantasy 7 Remake realized that error, and made the stagger bar more of an optional aspect that you can take advantage of if you want, more-so for bosses (but even then it's sometimes not necessary).

 

[cireza]

In FF13, the entire game is going from battle to battle. And the battles consist of spending the first 90% of the battle time building up the stagger bar, and then once filled you can do a lot of damage. Yeah it doesn't take 5 hours, but when you're running from battle to battle to battle to battle....to battle....and you have to go through the same song and dance every time to build up the stagger bar for the majority of the fight time, relatively speaking it feels really drawn out.

In FFX on the other hand, those typical field battles you come across throughout the game will see the player taking out each individual enemy with one or two hits each. You take out each enemy much quicker.

To put it simply, the typical FFX battle feels like this:

-Battle starts with three enemies
-"Fuck this enemy!" Killed
-"Fuck this enemy!" Killed
-"Damn, I got hit hard by the last enemy, so let's cast Cura".
-"OK let's cast Silence on this last enemy."
-"Let's fuck this guy up with this special attack"
-"And now let's finish you off!" Killed

Your actions are significant and you move from each action instantly.


The typical FFXIII battle feels like this:

-Battle starts with three enemies:
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the first enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-First enemy killed
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the second enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-Your party is taking some damage, so switch to the healing paradigm
-Party is healed, so switch back to the previous paradigm
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the second enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-Second enemy killed
-"OK lets start with paradigm A on the third enemy to builder the stagger gauge"
-Waits for stagger gauge to build
-"Alright, the enemy is staggered so now we switch to this other paradigm to do massive damage"
-Third enemy killed


It's the same overall, relatively drawn out, formula that you have to go through every time for both the "trash mob" battles and the bosses. And there is always a chunk of time where you're just kind of waiting for the bar to build while your characters hop around on-screen. The beauty of FFX is that you can go as fast or as slow as you want. So you can speed through most of the typical fights, while taking your time if needed for harder fights and bosses.

Don't get me wrong. FF13's battle system is pretty good, but it's not good enough to carry the entire game, which unfortunately it has to do since there is nothing else. Since the entirety of gameplay consists of battles, I would have greatly preferred to not be required to build the stagger gauge every single time. It gets nauseating after a while. Luckily Final Fantasy 7 Remake realized that error, and made the stagger bar more of an optional aspect that you can take advantage of if you want, more-so for bosses (but even then it's generally not necessary).

I find these examples poorly convincing, having replayed all these games recently. The amount of battles FF X throws at you is insane, especially if you want to do some optional stuff. In all three FF XIII games, you can avoid enemies.

Both FF X and FF XIII trilogy respect your intelligence, overall. You always have to put at least a simple thought process to win a battle, which is how it feels right (easy/common battles = simple thought process, hard/boss battles = more elaborated thought process). I find the bosses from the FF XIII games extremely challenging and well made.

FF XIII has you building strategies just as much as FF X, but it is not done through direct action, but instead by setting up what they call strategies in the menu. Which means you have taken the time to analyze which character gets which spell in each of the six jobs.
I find that FF XIII-2 improved the battle system quite a bit, giving even more sense to each different job, and offering a real liberty in how you evolve your characters.

FF X is also extremely annoying as it does not share experience with characters that do not participate in battle, forcing you into rotating them all the time. The game also drops a ton of weapons all the time, most of which aren't that interesting to begin with.

Overall, I don't see how one is largely better than the other. They all feel like solid games with good battles and mechanics.

 

[Ixion]

FF XIII has you building strategies just as much as FF X, but it is not done through direct action, but instead by setting up what they call strategies in the menu.

That's my point. You interact with the battles in FFX at a faster pace than with FFXIII, which is more about changing presets and watching your team hop around. And my bigger point is that the "strategy" in FF13 will ALWAYS consist of building the stagger gauge. It's the same overall strategy for the vast majority of battles. Once you figure out that general formula, the game becomes nauseatingly repetitive and drawn out. I wanted to stop building up bars and just trash some fools, but no you have to go through the song and dance every time.

FF X is also extremely annoying as it does not share experience with characters that do not participate in battle, forcing you into rotating them all the time.

You're not forced to that, unlike the stagger gauge. Personally, I never make sure to get all my characters a turn, and I get through the game just fine. It's just a factor that you can choose to take advantage of or not.

The game also drops a ton of weapons all the time, most of which aren't that interesting to begin with.

C'mon now. Just like every other RPG you sell your loot at the occasional shop. Doesn't take long and it gets you a lot of gil.

 

[cireza]

That's my point. You interact with the battles in FFX at a faster pace than with FFXIII, which is more about changing presets and watching your team hop around. And my bigger point is that the "strategy" in FF13 will ALWAYS consist of building the stagger gauge. It's the same overall strategy for the vast majority of battles. Once you figure out that general formula, the game becomes nauseatingly repetitive and drawn out. I wanted to stop building up bars and just trash some fools, but no you have to go through the song and dance every time.

Strategy in FF XIII is not summarized by "build the stagger jauge". Depending on the enemies, you will have to do a lot of other things. Applying buffs and debuffs (which are numerous), using a tank, know when to heal, when to build the stagger jauge and when to go all out. As well as spreading attacks or focusing. All of this is done through he strategies you need to setup, and you have to shift accordingly to adapt in battle. You of course need to target the right enemies, as well as using specific spells manually every once in a while.

If the game was as brain dead as you tell us, you would never fail in battle, only to win after having given a second thought on why your initial approach was bad.

 

[OrionNebula]

I really want to replay this for the ninth time. But ever since I have learnt there’s a version that you can play at x2 speed, I look at both my ps2 and ps4 like :

Triple Hhh GIF - Triple Hhh Wwe - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[Ixion]

Strategy in FF XIII is not summarized by "build the stagger jauge". Depending on the enemies, you will have to do a lot of other things. Applying buffs and debuffs (which are numerous), using a tank, know when to heal, when to build the stagger jauge and when to go all out. As well as spreading attacks or focusing. All of this is done through he strategies you need to setup, and you have to shift accordingly to adapt in battle. You of course need to target the right enemies, as well as using specific spells manually every once in a while.

If the game was as brain dead as you tell us, you would never fail in battle, only to win after having given a second thought on why your initial approach was bad.

That's not the case for the typical field battle though, which is my point. The entire game is battles. The bosses of course require more strategy, but getting through the vast amount of typical field battles (which again is the entire game) does not take much strategy. It's a very simple formula that you use over and over again for the most part.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Just got this and FFX2 on Steam on sale! Maybe this time I can beat them