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[longdi]

Industry rumblings but internet these days almost always ends up with some truth.
A very strange situation developing since AMD graphics powers Wii-U and next gen consoles. AMD CPU is rumored to power next gen consoles too!

AMD current South Island GPU offerings struggle to match Nvidia in efficiency at the high ends(HD79xx vs GTX680/670) and lack the marketing muscles of their lower/mid ends(HD78xx/77xx vs GTX660/650)


http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/am...er_results_released_and_they_are_alarmig.html

AMD Preliminary Third Quarter Results released - worrying
AMD today announced their Third Quarter Results, revenue for the third quarter ended September 29, 2012 and is expected to decrease approximately 10 percent compared to Q2. The company previously forecasted third quarter 2012 revenue to decrease 1 percent, plus or minus 3 percent, sequentially.

The fall in revenue is directly related towards a number of issues but primarily a “challenging macroeconomic environment,” as the company states in his report

http://techreport.com/news/23725/multiple-sources-say-amd-plans-more-layoffs

Multiple sources say AMD plans more layoffs
by Geoff Gasior — 5:23 PM on October 12, 2012
A couple of weeks ago, we caught wind of a rumor suggesting AMD was preparing to cut its work force to less than 10,000 employees, a drop of about 9%. That report came from VR-Zone, and now CNet has chimed in with word from its own sources. According to "people familiar with that matter," AMD is poised to axe as much as 20-30% of its staff. However, CNet says the number of layoffs could be lower, and it suggests AMD may release more information on the purported job cuts next week.

.....

Round about a year ago, AMD laid off 10% of its work force as part of a restructuring effort designed to improve the company's efficiency. Numerous high-profile executives have left the company since, and AMD's financial position has weakened. As we reported earlier today, AMD announced that its third-quarter revenue and margin will be substantially lower than anticipated. Revenue is now expected to fall 10% from the second quarter. Q2 results were themselves down 11% from the first quarter. AMD's Q3 margin is expected to be just 31%, a drop of 14 percentage points from the previous quarter.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/10/12/amds-layoffs-target-engineering/

AMD’s layoffs target engineering
Board incompetence dooms the company

Oct 12, 2012 in Finance
by Charlie Demerjian
Sources tell SemiAccurate that the one division of AMD that is making money, graphics, is going to have a lot of the engineering outsourced. The new crop of senior managers doesn’t seem to like the Canadian outpost much, and the result is going to be seen in the layoffs. Far from their being any logic to this move, it seems to be more borne out of personal fiefdoms than sanity, and will sink the company. There are a lot of names bandied about with Emile Ianni being named more often than others. We shall see who gets the bonuses soon enough.

 

[longdi]

AMD next gen GPU - HD89xx is ready by Mar2013 and will be only 15% faster than current HD79xx...

What is the latest on AMD’s Sea Islands?
Not much new, not too exciting

Oct 11, 2012 in Graphics
by Charlie Demerjian

What is the latest on AMD’s Sea Islands (CI) line of GPUs? The short story is not much, it is pretty ho-hum.
Sea Islands is not going to be a 2012 product, it is looking like a March 2013 release for now. Things could of course change, but that is unlikely given what the card is. CI is a 28nm evolution of the current 7xxx line of cards, think optimizations rather than massively new features.
As far as performance goes, AMD was promising AIBs roughly a 30% speed boost from the new silicon a few months back. That we hear is fairly optimistic, with more measured sources saying +15% is more likely. AMD is power bound and die size equals cost, so what you are looking at is process improvements and algorithm optimizations rather than any new big bangs.S|A

 

[blu]

Non-sensationalist thread title here.

 

[legacyzero]

Worrying indeed.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

At this point, with contract work already knee-deep, why do you expect that anything at all will happen? Maybe this will affect other things, like their discrete video card marketing, but I don't expect that anything will happen to long-term money-makers, like their console part work.

 

[Dennis]

We throw up our hands in despair at the stupidity of CEOs.

What else is there to do?

 

[yon61]

Non-sensationalist thread title here.

No need for the sarcasm, actually. This is a very concerning situation as far as AMD goes

 

[Delusibeta]

Non-sensationalist thread title here.

Yeah, doesn't suggest a 100% cut of the workforce at all, instead of the 20-30% they're actually considering.

Granted, it's a worrying development, but AMD is nowhere near, say, Research In Motion in terms of "how soon will it go bankrupt?"

 

[Derrick01]

They've really dropped the ball to nvidia in the GPU market but how can they be doing so bad if their stuff is in all 3 future consoles? Do they not get paid until the systems are actually sold in public?

 

[bgassassin]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...D

 

[FairXchange]

I've got an uncle here in Toronto who works for AMD, he gets me graphics cards for free once in a while. I really hope his job isn't in jeopardy, that'd be terrible news for the family.

 

[Dennis]

I guess I haven't kept up.

This GPU round goes to Nvidia?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think they'll probably make money if/when any of the 3 next gen consoles actually go on sale. After that, console gamers won't have to worry about their well-being until 2016.

Edit: a 9% dip in workforce hardly constitutes dying in this economy.

 

[tkscz]

Maybe they should, I don't know, LET THEMSELVES BE KNOWN!!! AMD cards aren't bad, infact, for the price, you really get some amazing quality, but, when you boot up a PC game what do you usually see? Oh that's right NVIDIA. Hell, the only reason I stick with nVidia GPU's is the only reason I stick with AMD CPU's. I started that way and damnit I'll go out that way.

If they take the time to advertise, maybe they'd be bigger in both the eyes of the publish and the developers.

I guess I haven't kept up.

This GPU round goes to Nvidia?

It's pretty much been going to Nvidia since AMD dropped the ATI name.

 

[Derrick01]

I guess I haven't kept up.

This GPU round goes to Nvidia?

It's been that way for a while. Never underestimate the benefit of being more user friendly in a rapidly growing PC market. I still remember the horror stories from last year with people and shit AMD drivers with almost every game.

 

[yon61]

Yeah, doesn't suggest a 100% cut of the workforce at all, instead of the 20-30% they're actually considering.

Granted, it's a worrying development, but AMD is nowhere near, say, Research In Motion in terms of "how soon will it go bankrupt?"

I used to believe that, until yesterday. AMD's Q3 forecast are below even revised expectations, and if you know anything about AMD's condition, you would know that they cannot last much longer like that.

 

[gofreak]

MS/Sony/Nintendo license the IP, right?

So they once the design is done they're work with AMD is finished.

Except...for shrinkages. But I imagine a part of AMD will always be around to handle redesign contracts. Or, if AMD did disappear, Sony/MS/Nintendo could find other partners to help them shrink these designs.

It would possibly make things more difficult for BC in future boxes - but most of the companies have already switched between different vendors between generations, so not a whole lot new there...I'm pretty sure Sony and MS at least, might start leaning on remote hardware for BC going forward, and there they can take advantage of other vendor's ever-increasingly-powerful hardware to virtualise and emulate their legacy platforms.

 

[walking fiend]

I think they'll probably make money if/when any of the 3 next gen consoles actually go on sale. After that, console gamers won't have to worry about their well-being until 2016.

Edit: a 9% dip in workforce hardly constitutes dying in this economy.

This economy from 2009 -- ???

Honestly, when is the situation going to improve? Time for communism to re-rise? lol

 

[outsida]

This is one really long slow death.

 

[KojiKnight]

Maybe they should, I don't know, LET THEMSELVES BE KNOWN!!! AMD cards aren't bad, infact, for the price, you really get some amazing quality, but, when you boot up a PC game what do you usually see? Oh that's right NVIDIA. Hell, the only reason I stick with nVidia GPU's is the only reason I stick with AMD CPU's. I started that way and damnit I'll go out that way.

If they take the time to advertise, maybe they'd be bigger in both the eyes of the publish and the developers.



It's pretty much being going to Nvidia since AMD dropped the ATI name.

They tried that game... unfortunately a lot of games used for benchmarking are still "nvidia" sponsored, and by sponsored I mean heavily optimized for... so AMD is almost always at a disadvantage. On top of that, Nvidia also uses some non-standard calls and features (see physx, instead of DirectCompute or OpenCL) which means AMD literally CAN'T compete in some games in performance/features simply because the developers have been bought out.

When random Joe A goes to a review site and sees his favorite games simply run better, they don't take a second to analyze how or why.... they just assume that AMD isn't as good, and continue buying Nvidia... I can understand why they do... I'm sure even if they KNEW it was unfair practices they still wouldn't care.

 

[Blades64]

With recent tweaks and driver updates, AMD high end GPUs (7970/7950) basically go neck and neck with high end Nvidia GPUs (670/680), especially at higher resolutions, and at a cheaper price...maybe if they'd actually made that known, people would buy their stuff. Their marketing is terrible. Every game I boot up on PC shows the Nvidia logo. AMD needs to be more aggressive like that. Convince developers to make games with AMD technology in mind.

 

[Onion_Relish]

I like how they use the words "canadian outpost". Good thing our igloos have internet eh? I just got the new AOL 4.0 CD, think ill download it with my internet which is a can attached to another can by some twine.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Anyone else remember that brief time on GAF when everyone was claiming that Nvidia was doomed because AMD had "taken over" the GPU area, and that Nvidia's shift to Tegra and mobile chips was a sign they were getting desperate because they just couldn't compete.

I wonder where those posters went.

 

[Alexios]

...nothing, I don't think they manufacture things for them, just design it.

 

[kitch9]

I used to believe that, until yesterday. AMD's Q3 forecast are below even revised expectations, and if you know anything about AMD's condition, you would know that they cannot last much longer like that.

People have been saying that for years now.

They will cut the unprofitable fat and leave the profitable stuff. The cycle will continue.

Jobs get cut in a downturn, fact of life.

 

[brotkasten]

AMD is always dying.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Dying as much as PC gaming.



Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

 

[Blades64]

Dying as much as PC gaming.



Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

They do but people don't know that. That's the problem.

 

[Derrick01]

Dying as much as PC gaming.



Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

A small advantage at best sometimes but then you have to deal with some of the worst drivers and other problems that require more knowledge of PC stuff that a lot of people don't have, or don't have the patience for.

 

[yon61]

People have been saying that for years now.

They will cut the unprofitable fat and leave the profitable stuff. The cycle will continue.

AMD have been in an uncomfortable position for years, yes, but in the last year that position has become quite dire.

You're being naive to think it's as simple as you say it is. At least elaborate on what you mean by cutting the fat, because I don't think it would be right to describe the engineers of AMD as merely 'fat'.

 

[Alexios]

Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

That was my impression from looking at reviews and stuff a while ago when I intended to build a new mid tier PC and I settled on a 7870 variant (I changed mind though, I'm waiting until maybe March to see if I can get better, more long lasting stuff for a similar price, unless I get desperate for performance before then, but I only have real trouble in few games for now). This thread is the first time I see people claim NVIDIA wins in all the benchmarks and what not. But maybe that's true for the top end cards or when just comparing directly competing models against each other regardless of the price differences or something. As for drivers and stuff, I hear horror stories for both companies. My last ATI was an X800XL, before that I had a GeForce 4 Ti4200, now I have a GTX285, I don't see much difference between them, except I had to configure more stuff manually for my ATI CC back then, disabling extra processes and shit, which annoyed me the first few times, but it's not like your average user would care about that.

 

[i-Lo]

Makes me wonder if the licensing price for MS and Sony just went up.

 

[Elios83]

Sony and MS will simply license the chips design for manufacturing, they won't depend on AMD after the chips are done.
So in the worst case, they'll stop paying royalties to a dead company

 

[MCD]

My Phantom II X6 is still kicking ass.

What a shame.

 

[Metalmurphy]

A small advantage at best sometimes but then you have to deal with some of the worst drivers and other problems that require more knowledge of PC stuff that a lot of people don't have, or don't have the patience for.

Isn't it exactly the opposite? If you want to take advantage of Nvidia cards with those SSSSADIOPSDAA and shit like that that AMD cards can't use you need to install extra tools which aren't exactly user friendly for your regular joe.


As far as AMD and regular users goes just install the drivers on the disc and you're good to go.

 

[cyberheater]

Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

And the worse graphic drivers.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

AMD certainly seems like they are in trouble. Wasn't their stock price somewhere around 8-9 earlier this year. They're now at 2 something. Plus the layoffs now, bad reports, etc.

Certainly not a good turn of events this past year for the company.

 

[Derrick01]

Isn't it exactly the opposite? If you want to take advantage of Nvidia cards with those SSSSADIOPSDAA and shit like that that AMD cards can't use you need to install extra tools which aren't exactly user friendly for your regular joe.


As far as AMD and regular users goes just install the drivers on the disc and you're good to go.

I'm just talking about standard use not any of that weird stuff that most normal people wouldn't even notice let alone bother trying to get working.

They have a reputation for requiring more knowledge of computers because of the problems they have and I was even told that by my friend (who still uses AMD today) when I was looking into building a PC.

 

[dionysus]

They fired their CEO who was leading a successful turnaround a few years back. It has been downhill from there. One of the dumbest boards of directors I have ever seen. The justification was basically, "Yea he did a great job and the company has growth and profits for the first time in years but now we want to focus on burying Intel and ARM."

Such hubris, they counted their chickens before they came home to roost.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Don't AMD cards still have the best price/performance ratio?

I don't think you thought this sentence through.
If you owned a business and that business sold more for less and yet the competition was still kicking your ass, then __________.

 

[dionysus]

The good news is that ATI is a profitable division so even in a worse case bankruptcy ATI will survive as an ongoing entity.

 

[bgassassin]

I don't think you thought this sentence through.
If you owned a business and that business sold more for less and yet the competition was still kicking your ass, then __________.

...keep doing the same thing over and over till you get a different result.

 

[kitch9]

AMD have been in an uncomfortable position for years, yes, but in the last year that position has become quite dire.

You're being naive to think it's as simple as you say it is. At least elaborate on what you mean by cutting the fat, because I don't think it would be right to describe the engineers of AMD as merely 'fat'.

When you say "the" engineers are you trying to say that AMD are shedding ALL their engineers or just the ones they feel they don't need?

 

[omonimo]

I'm a bit confused...

 

[specialguy]

Current AMD GPU's are great, stop trying to make it look otherwise. HD7970 is at least tied with GTX680, a position they havent been in since X1950Xt days. Nvidia always has beat AMD, this gen AMD is just as fast as Nvidia. AMD is actually winning.

If it's about efficiency, why werent people crowing the last several generations when AMD was cleaning Nvidia's clock in efficiency? Nobody cared all those years. In fact, even saying Nvidia is winning on efficiency is kind of bull. Only with the GK106. Pitcairn and Cape Verde AMD easily matches. And the efficiency difference between GK106 and Tahiti is much less than even last gen, when Caymen had the edge on GTX580. And the reason AMD efficiency lags a little is because Nvidia stripped compute out of their GPU's, so it's not even apples to apples.

Not trying to create flamebait but it seems fanboyism is why nobody buys AMD GPU's, as they are great and good deals. Nobody cares, they want Nvidia stamped on the side. It really got much worse this generation than I've seen it in the past, dunno why.

Now AMD CPU's do suck, and are probably hurting them worse than the GPU side by far.

If people want AMD dead, and they do, looks like they'll get it soon enough. And then they'll get whatever Nvidia/Intel hands down for them, at whatever price Nvidia and intel decide, and that's what they wanted. *shrug*

But anyways as to the next generation of consoles, I dont think they even care. They'll get the part they want, and have all agreements in place that whatever happens to AMD wont affect them.

I'm sure they wont be happy to only have Nvidia to deal with after that though. But I guess they'll cross that bridge when they come to it. It might not be too long before Intel's IGP GPU's are strong enough to compete for consoles (but Intel is no better to deal with than AMD). Maybe one of the mobile players like PowerVr might be in play next gen. Maybe they could even build their own GPU in house (this seenms like by far the longest shot though, it takes years, and the patent situation alone probably precludes it). Anyways I dont know that it's just set in stone we're even going to have another generation after this one. It could be cloud by then.

AMD might not cease to exist anyway. If they get bought by say Qaulcomm, who's to say they wont continue as is, just with more financial security now.

I do find this funny cause I was arguing with a guy in the Wii U thread telling me how lucrative these console deals are, and I was telling him they're really not, and lo and behold, we have an AMD going out of business thread LOL.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Lol what an idiot title.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I don't think you thought this sentence through.
If you owned a business and that business sold more for less and yet the competition was still kicking your ass, then __________.

You don't know how much it's costing them to manufacture though. And a company can sell less and still not be dying. There's a market for people that want to pay less and get more.

See:

The good news is that ATI is a profitable division so even in a worse case bankruptcy ATI will survive as an ongoing entity.

 

[MCD]

They really need to work on their Catalyst GUI. What a POS.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

We all ditch our consoles and move to Nvidia powered gaming PCs, prolly.

 

[yon61]

When you say "the" engineers are you trying to say that AMD are shedding ALL their engineers or just the ones they feel they don't need?

Of course they would 'feel' they don't need, especially when they're in a situation as dire as they're in right now. I'm sure they 'feel' that outsourcing would be the better option now.