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Rumor: Persona 5 Spinoff or Revision on the way - P5R

Gorillaz

Member
Jun 13, 2012
29,853
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0
Rogue
Rehabilitation
Rebellion

I can see it being one of those 3 but Rebellion rolls off the tongue more but rehab will probably be the pick
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
10,294
6
685
Toronto
Oh I'm very aware that there's a small minority that likes the game. But we exist lol. Persona 5 is the GTAIV of the franchise haha. Saw a gaffer post this once and I told him "Hell no!". But I think he was right.

Another day, another P5 is trash thread.

I wonder if the rediculous expectation plays a part. GAF certainly anticipated the second coming. Glad I went in with low expectation. Had a blast with the game.

Its still my GotY after playing stuff like Zelda, Horizon and Nier. The difference is I don't go into every other thread to talk about how much I loved the game. Matter of fact I've actually started avoiding all these Persona 5 threads where people drop their hot takes while dropping the game.

Lord knows I enjoyed my 100 hour playthrough all the way through. My issue was purely with too much text boxes. A lot of it could have been eliminated or turned into thought bubbles which don't need to be confirmed (like having to press X after a character tells me we entered a saferoom when I already pressed X to enter a saferoom).

The music is top tier stuff. The game oozes atmosphere and style. Combat is better than ever and really enjoyable. Getting to spend time with characters and meeting new people even if they weren't the most complex was a blast. Outside of some minor things I had no issue with the translation (English is my third language so what do I know)

2017 GotY and unless Mario Odyssey tops it, it'll stay that way. If I hadnt lent the game to a friend I would have done another playthrough.
 

BRSxIgnition

Member
Sep 12, 2014
4,010
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To reduce the amount of effort they put in the game to an "edgier and lazier version of P4" is a disrespectful lie.

Prima facie, the structure of Persona 5's story is an exact copy of structure of Persona 4's story. You
meet a character, talk once or twice before finding out how they're connected to the narrative, enter their related dungeon before recruiting them halfway through it, beat the boss, experience downtime, before finally working your way up to a larger antagonist, where the game acts like you should have won before introducing a god that has been pulling the strings the entire time.

The only difference is the build-up to fighting
the Grail/Yaldy
in P5, and that only serves to exacerbate its glaring pacing issues.

At least Persona 3 was structured moderately differently. All I was really expecting was a change in structure equal to that between P3 and P4, and we didn't get it.

Are you saying Persona should be reinvented like P3 reinvented the original Persona?

Nnnnope.

I'm not saying P5 doesn't have issues. They didn't put enough thought in how some of their jokes (you know which ones) would be taken by an international audience but they did all they thought correct to make the most political game that criticize their own society and that's not lazy at all.

I'm not saying that creating a game with these themes is lazy, or that creating a game at all is lazy. I never said that at all.

It's incredibly hard, and it's no doubt a powerful statement to make in a country like Japan - hell, worldwide even.

But the story structure was ripped wholesale from Persona 4 - so in regards to the writing, they didn't try to do anything new with how they structured the narrative, and it does them a disservice, because we know they can craft better narratives than this.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
10,294
6
685
Toronto
Prima facie, the structure of Persona 5's story is an exact copy of structure of Persona 4's story. You
meet a character, talk once or twice before finding out how they're connected to the narrative, enter their related dungeon before recruiting them halfway through it, beat the boss, experience downtime, before finally working your way up to a larger antagonist, where the game acts like you should have won before introducing a god that has been pulling the strings the entire time.

The only difference is the build-up to fighting
the Grail/Yaldy
in P5, and that only serves to exacerbate its glaring pacing issues.

At least Persona 3 was structured moderately differently. All I was really expecting was a change in structure equal to that between P3 and P4, and we didn't get it.



Nnnnope.



I'm not saying that creating a game with these themes is lazy, or that creating a game at all is lazy. I never said that at all.

It's incredibly hard, and it's no doubt a powerful statement to make in a country like Japan - hell, worldwide even.

But the story structure was ripped wholesale from Persona 4 - so in regards to the writing, they didn't try to do anything new with how they structured the narrative, and it shows.

I'm still waiting to hear how thats a bad thing. Persona 4 Golden was one of the best JRPGs ever, Persona 5 being more of that good stuff and even better was what I wanted.

I dont have the nostalgia for Persona 3 so I'll put that on blast. The first few hours are beyond boring and navigating Tartarus is an absolute slog. Its so bad I dropped the game a few years back even though I wanted to love it. At least Persona 5 hooks you from the start and shit goes down within minutes.
 
Dec 19, 2016
834
0
0
Being disappointed and having overblown expectations are two different things entirely.

Many of us expected a solid game that expanded more on the mechanics and story of previous titles, while using its larger scope to tell a better story. What wegot was a shoddy localization effort, and P4 Black & Red Edition with gameplay improvements.

Don't get me wrong, the music is good, the UI is godly, and some of the characters have good designs, but it fell flat in story/pacing/characters in some crucial ways that, admittedly, I didn't think Persona would stumble so much on.

In the end, it's less about expecting the second coming and more about thinking "You know better than this, P-Studio."

Regardless, I still listen to the OST almost daily and I look forward to an improved version in the future.

Contrary to what some people believe around here

Story pacing and characters arent actually important or even abject metrics of what makes for a good rpg.
 

BRSxIgnition

Member
Sep 12, 2014
4,010
0
0
I'm still waiting to hear how thats a bad thing. Persona 4 Golden was one of the best JRPGs ever, Persona 5 being more of that good stuff and even better was what I wanted.

Persona 4 took 2 years, and changed the overall story structure from Persona 3 in at least a few areas.

Persona 5 took 8 years (4 if you count from Golden), and copied the same overall story structure from Persona 4.

Sure, it's still good, but it's notably less fresh. (
Splatoon 2 reference kinda intended?
)

I dont have the nostalgia for Persona 3 so I'll put that on blast. The first few hours are beyond boring and navigating Tartarus is an absolute slog. Its so bad I dropped the game a few years back even though I wanted to love it. At least Persona 5 hooks you from the start and shit goes down within minutes.

The focus here isn't that persona 3 is some almighty title - it's that Persona 3 and Persona 4 felt different from one another. Persona 5 simply swapped your juvenile detective gang for a juvenile group of thieves, but kept the rest of the narrative structure intact.

On that note however, Persona 3 could do with a definitive edition that improves its starting hours, IMO.

Contrary to what some people believe around here

Story pacing and characters arent actually important or even abject metrics of what makes for a good rpg.

Are you presenting this as fact or stating your own opinion? One of the two is understandable, the other... not so much.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
10,294
6
685
Toronto
Persona 4 took 2 years, and changed the overall story structure from Persona 3 in at least a few areas.

Persona 5 took 8 years (4 if you count from Golden), and copied the same overall story structure from Persona 4.

Sure, it's still good, but it's notably less fresh. (
Splatoon 2 reference kinda intended?
)



The focus here isn't that persona 3 is some almighty title - it's that Persona 3 and Persona 4 felt different from one another. Persona 5 simply swapped your juvenile detective gang for a juvenile group of thieves, but kept the rest of the narrative structure intact.

On that note however, Persona 3 could do with a definitive edition that improves its starting hours, IIMO

The Persona team also made Catherine before P5.
 

Mik317

Member
Aug 5, 2013
14,812
0
0
the narrative structure of 4 and 5 aren't the same tho....i mean if they are then 3 is too. I like 4 more than 5 but them being the same not true at all....or a pedantic criticism at the very least. The enemy of the month in which you gain a new teammate flow has been a part of the calendar system implemented in 3....so if that's the structure your talking about...then yeah sure I guess.
 

BRSxIgnition

Member
Sep 12, 2014
4,010
0
0
The Persona team also made Catherine before P5.

True - but could one really successfully argue that 'they couldn't make a fresher, newer story for Persona 5 because they made a one-off story-based-puzzle game'?

the narrative structure of 4 and 5 aren't the same tho....i mean if they are then 3 is too.

...

The enemy of the month in which you gain a new teammate flow has been a part of the calendar system implemented in 3....so if that's the structure your talking about...then yeah sure I guess.

Thing is, as outlined in my post comparing the two, they're different enough that you couldn't readily pick out what was going to happen months in advance in Persona 4 after playing Persona 3 or vice versa.

Persona 3 had a boss every month, but gaining party members was often seperate enough from when you fought bosses that it never built a specific, repeditive structure to it.

Whereas in Persona 4 and 5, you know EXACTLY what will happen in what order after experiencing it once because it's EXACTLY the same every time until the finale. (i.e:
You meet a character, talk once or twice before finding out how they're connected to the narrative, enter their related dungeon before recruiting them halfway through it, beat the boss, experience downtime, before finally working your way up to a larger antagonist, where the game acts like you should have won before introducing a god that has been pulling the strings the entire time
.)

I didn't even need to specify which game I'm talking about there because it applies so well to both.
 

Mik317

Member
Aug 5, 2013
14,812
0
0
thats unfair and its like saying every Mario game is the same because its just jump through levels of various enivorments before beating Bowser. Its true but its also selling the game short.

The actual structure is different by simple additions of the in media res opening . The finale is a different that P4 because the true true big bad actually gets more set up
you fight it, get bodied, then learn more about it, and fight it again whereas in 4, you fight it and win....and after that the game ends where as there is a bit of an epilogue in 5
. Is it similar? yeah but If i wanted to be really pedantic I could do it w/ 3 as well.. There is enough differences to make p5's story its own thing. Is it perfect? hell no, I didn't even finish 3 and I think its the "worst" of the 3 (3-5;never finished 1 or 2) and I get most of the complaints but I feel like this one is super unfair and not completely true.
 

Iva Demilcol

Member
Apr 26, 2014
5,240
1
395
LeBlanc Teahouse
Prima facie, the structure of Persona 5's story is an exact copy of structure of Persona 4's story. You
meet a character, talk once or twice before finding out how they're connected to the narrative, enter their related dungeon before recruiting them halfway through it, beat the boss, experience downtime, before finally working your way up to a larger antagonist, where the game acts like you should have won before introducing a god that has been pulling the strings the entire time.

The only difference is the build-up to fighting
the Grail/Yaldy
in P5, and that only serves to exacerbate its glaring pacing issues.

At least Persona 3 was structured moderately differently. All I was really expecting was a change in structure equal to that between P3 and P4, and we didn't get it.



Nnnnope.



I'm not saying that creating a game with these themes is lazy, or that creating a game at all is lazy. I never said that at all.

It's incredibly hard, and it's no doubt a powerful statement to make in a country like Japan - hell, worldwide even.

But the story structure was ripped wholesale from Persona 4 - so in regards to the writing, they didn't try to do anything new with how they structured the narrative, and it does them a disservice, because we know they can craft better narratives than this.

The spoiler part is wrong: there's only one character that becomes part of your party like the characters in Persona 4. One out of 9. Every Persona game since 3 has the "get a new character per arc" thing that seems to bother you, not only that but the way the story is always structured hasn't changed that much either: you get an introduction to the arc, then you explore the dungeon, wait until the deadline and get the story to move on as a larger problem slowly gets revealed. The only difference is that in P3 the deadline is tied to the full moon, in P4 to the weather and in P5 to a situation that can get the main character into jail.

The big bad of these three games and the final battle are all different despite having common motifs. The one that is done poorly is P4's, where they had to add stuff in Golden to justify the lack of sense of progression during the whole game. P3's story is the one I like the most due to personal preferences, but P5 was actually pretty subtle at the beginning to the point that you can get hints (that you can miss if you don't pay attention) from the very beginning; the approach is similar to P4's but the build up is definitely better is not even funny when someone bring up Persona 4 as a favorable comparison. Could the game have had a shorter dungeon at the very end? I guess it could but the combat is so satisfying some of us don't even care. The last section is not as big as a regular Palace either.

They did a lot of new things with the writing, even if you want to disregard it. The structure of the story is as similar to P3 as to P4. As some people have pointed out, people are idealizing their previous experiences with Persona just too much at this point.